Praise for assistant coach who sacrificed himself for the good of the team

[AleG]

2 hours ago, Old Croc said:

The timing of the vague story on Facebook/Twitter/Whatever, about the coach being called by parents after the kids entered, seems a little coincidental considering it emerged late in the piece after reports that the police are going to charge him.

A false story planted on social media goes a long way in this country.

 

If the coach rushed to the cave to save the kids, why did he stop to buy the rations he apparently shared?  Hero or villain, best to wait to see where the chips fall.

 

The wet season in CR starts in May - why wasn't the cave closed from that month?

" A false story planted on social media goes a long way in this country. "

The irony here is that it's not true that the police said they are going to charge him, that was fake news.

[smo]

1 hour ago, tingtongtourist said:

21 hours ago, smileplur said:

My understanding is that the man entered the cave after being called by the parents.

I did read that also.

But there is an earlier story that say one boy contacted a parent who forbid him to go into the cave with them.

The parent then come and pick up the kid from somewhere around the entrance.

 

I may be wrong but the words of that report sound as the coach did organise it.

 

I find it VERY hard to believe that 1 parent would collect their boy but not report or say angthing to anyone, IF those boys were going in there alone.

This was also what I  heard (was trying my best listening in so don't count on 100% accurary) on Thai news a few days ago and reported this bit on an earlier thread:

 

"This boy #13 was also part of the team and was going along with the expedition after their Sat game practice. On the way they made a pit stop at the coach's house, during which the coach told his mother - or she asked - of where they were going. She made a comment/reply which escaped me but I guess it was probably something along the line, are you crazy? Luckily this bit of critical info was passed along to one mother of one of the kids. When the group arrived at the cave, this one kid got a phone call from his mom, she told him not to go in but wait for her instead, she was on her way to pick him up."

 

Maybe the coach's mom did spread the news, but she is not a phone operator so I don't see her flipping through her son's rolodex and taking the time to call up all 13 kids parents. However one mother who got the info did exert some common sense and reacted in time to save her boy (there are, or were video clips interviewing this kid and his dad). What gave me the feeling that the coach led the trip was the way how the bicycles all lined up one after another and chained to the handrail - and each boy's belongings or whatever was placed under each bike. Seems very orderly shall we say. That tells me some supervision was present. (In other words, if the kids were by themselves, I would expect to see the bicycles lying about haphazard.) 

 

Now that the "new" news was that the coach did not take the boys into the cave, but indeed arrived later and went in to look for them.... Does anyone remember the earlier about some workers got injured by electrocution and had to be taken to the hospital, only later to learn that oh, they only had some minor stomach ailments. Have you met any Thai that would go to hospital to treat minor stomach ailments? I haven't. Do you think that on-site ambulances had nothing to do so they rushed them to the hospital for stomach ailments? I don't. 

 

I think the evolving story about the coach, oh sorry, I mean assistant coach's, action is only part of the news spin cycle that is preparing a suitable scenario for a big celebration in the making. Makes me sigh that folks can be so gullible sometimes. However anyone here or elsewhere expecting an accurate, honest to god final account to come out of this incident is really, really, naive. 

[DM07]

16 hours ago, Artisi said:

Entered on the advice of the "warning" sign, strategically placed outside the cave entrance clearing advising not to enter between July and ??. 

But guess that  doesn't suit you and others with the hang-em high mentality. 

 

So going in on June 30th would have been okay, right?!

Or on June 26th...but no way on July 1st?

Makes total sense!

[Sheryl]

I, too, was appalled by that (as far as I can see) wholly unfounded slur on this brave young man's character. To imply that he had sexually predatory intentions on his young charges really is utterly disgusting - when not a shred of evidence has been produced to support such a claim. It seems that far from being a selfish predator, this young 'assistant coach' is a hero and should be highly commended - not have his character defamed in this shameful way.
 
 

None of us have any inside knowledge about this man or his relationship with the boys. Such insinuations would qualify as defamation, a serious offense in Thailand. I suggest that those making these insinuations -- veiled or otherwise -- stop if they want to retain their posting rights.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[DM07]

IF the story is, that he went after the kids and try to get them out- he deserves praise!

IF the story is, that he went in with the kids, he put them in grave danger and AT LEAST does not deserve to be called a hero!

IF the story is, that we are talking about a 2nd coach, who went after the 1st coach and the kids, the first coach also does not deserve to be called a hero!

 

And it seems, we are having to go with the later version!

 

[vogie]

17 minutes ago, DM07 said:

So going in on June 30th would have been okay, right?!

Or on June 26th...but no way on July 1st?

Makes total sense!

Don't be so rediculous, do you actually think when they put a sign up they work in days. If they think it will be dangerous in the middle of July, the sign will go up at the end of June, or thereabouts. 

[Eligius]

1 minute ago, DM07 said:

IF the story is, that he went after the kids and try to get them out- he deserves praise!

IF the story is, that he went in with the kids, he put them in grave danger and AT LEAST does not deserve to be called a hero!

IF the story is, that we are talking about a 2nd coach, who went after the 1st coach and the kids, the first coach also does not deserve to be called a hero!

 

And it seems, we are having to go with the later version!

 

I think you give a good summary of the situation, DM07.

 

I would say, though, that even though a blunder was made (it seems) by taking the kids into the cave in the first place, if the reports of his selflessness and generosity inside the cave are true (giving up his own food, advising the boys on drinking the wall-water, etc.) - then he at least deserves considerable respect for that.

 

But I fully understand what you are saying. You make the point very well.

[JAZZDOG]

21 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

12 childeren with only ONE adult should never ever go into some dark cave..

very stupid plan of him he needs to be questioned by police.

Seems to me this may be clear defamation of character unless you have some compelling evidence to support it. You may have placed yourself on a very slippery slope when this young man is rescued and the truth comes out.

[DM07]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

Don't be so rediculous, do you actually think when they put a sign up they work in days. If they think it will be dangerous in the middle of July, the sign will go up at the end of June, or thereabouts. 

Care to read the post, I was answering to?

No?

Have a good day!

[Destiny1990]

5 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

Seems to me this may be clear defamation of character unless you have some compelling evidence to support it. You may have placed yourself on a very slippery slope when this young man is rescued and the truth comes out.

He went with the kids deep inside in the cave.

the parents called the head coach khun Nop to find the missing minors but he was unable to access the cave! Where the kids and the other coach were now what u don’t understand?

Edited July 5, 2018 by Destiny1990

[pathologix]

1 minute ago, JAZZDOG said:

Seems to me this may be clear defamation of character unless you have some compelling evidence to support it. You may have placed yourself on a very slippery slope when this young man is rescued and the truth comes out.

That is not defamation. It's an opinion that there should be more than one adult when spelunking with a group of a dozen kids. (An opinion I don't agree with, as additional adults would just mean more people to be rescued.)

 

Defamation requires that the person negligently says/writes an untruth in an effort to harm a person's character. 

[Destiny1990]

2 minutes ago, pathologix said:

That is not defamation. It's an opinion that there should be more than one adult when spelunking with a group of a dozen kids. (An opinion I don't agree with, as additional adults would just mean more people to be rescued.)

 

Defamation requires that the person negligently says/writes an untruth in an effort to harm a person's character. 

If a large group of minors are go somewhere with an unrelated adult there for several reasons at least always more then one adult should be there..And in this case they should not have went at all.

[tingtongtourist]

29 minutes ago, smo said:

This was also what I  heard (was trying my best listening in so don't count on 100% accurary) on Thai news a few days ago and reported this bit on an earlier thread:

 

"This boy #13 was also part of the team and was going along with the expedition after their Sat game practice. On the way they made a pit stop at the coach's house, during which the coach told his mother - or she asked - of where they were going. She made a comment/reply which escaped me but I guess it was probably something along the line, are you crazy? Luckily this bit of critical info was passed along to one mother of one of the kids. When the group arrived at the cave, this one kid got a phone call from his mom, she told him not to go in but wait for her instead, she was on her way to pick him up."

 

Maybe the coach's mom did spread the news, but she is not a phone operator so I don't see her flipping through her son's rolodex and taking the time to call up all 13 kids parents. However one mother who got the info did exert some common sense and reacted in time to save her boy (there are, or were video clips interviewing this kid and his dad). What gave me the feeling that the coach led the trip was the way how the bicycles all lined up one after another and chained to the handrail - and each boy's belongings or whatever was placed under each bike. Seems very orderly shall we say. That tells me some supervision was present. (In other words, if the kids were by themselves, I would expect to see the bicycles lying about haphazard.) 

 

Now that the "new" news was that the coach did not take the boys into the cave, but indeed arrived later and went in to look for them.... Does anyone remember the earlier about some workers got injured by electrocution and had to be taken to the hospital, only later to learn that oh, they only had some minor stomach ailments. Have you met any Thai that would go to hospital to treat minor stomach ailments? I haven't. Do you think that on-site ambulances had nothing to do so they rushed them to the hospital for stomach ailments? I don't. 

 

I think the evolving story about the coach, oh sorry, I mean assistant coach's, action is only part of the news spin cycle that is preparing a suitable scenario for a big celebration in the making. Makes me sigh that folks can be so gullible sometimes. However anyone here or elsewhere expecting an accurate, honest to god final account to come out of this incident is really, really, naive. 

you lost me at the stomach ailments part sorry but i dont get what you are saying there.

my questions about the coach was explained by the poster Destiny (see it back in post #98) that there was 2 coach..

the one already in the cave with boys (who is assistant coach) and the head coach, who is one the parents were calling on phone to ask about kids.

Head coach then went to cave but couldnt get in.

 

As you did say, that is one version.

and yes, the Thai parent who claim the boys went in the cave alone does contradict all of the other story.

 

so yes you are right, cannot rely on this "chinese whispers" style of news just be happy they are found and all going well so far.

 

 

 

 

[JAZZDOG]

5 minutes ago, Eligius said:

I think you give a good summary of the situation, DM07.

 

I would say, though, that even though a blunder was made (it seems) by taking the kids into the cave in the first place, if the reports of his selflessness and generosity inside the cave are true (giving up his own food, advising the boys on drinking the wall-water, etc.) - then he at least deserves considerable respect for that.

 

But I fully understand what you are saying. You make the point very well.

No need to prepare to hang this young man already. The truth will come to light from cell phone records although that wont likely be necessary as the coach obviously broke no laws, the cave was open. It does seem to me there would be some fairly outraged and vocal parents if indeed the coach took kids on an excursion against the parents wishes. I am very glad for whatever reason the coach was there as there was nothing stopping the boys from going alone which they may likely have done, We just don't know yet. 

[pathologix]

1 minute ago, Destiny1990 said:

If a large group of minors are go somewhere with an unrelated adult there for several reasons at least always more then one adult should be there..And in this case they should not have went at all.

According to what guidelines? As a pre-teen/teen, I went on plenty of group outings with very safety-conscious leaders who could handle the group alone. And, again – how would this situation be materially better with another starving adult trapped on that ledge?

 

Whether or not the adult is related to them is irrelevant. It's not like this wouldn't have happened if the coach was everybody's uncle. 

[vogie]

7 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

If a large group of minors are go somewhere with an unrelated adult there for several reasons at least always more then one adult should be there..And in this case they should not have went at all.

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing.

[DM07]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing.

Wouldn't forward thinking and proper planing be a wonderful thing, too?!

[Jai Dee]

A number of troll posts, argumentative posts, posts suggesting inappropriate behaviour, as well as posts of a defamatory nature have been removed from this thread.

 

Please keep your speculation to a minimum and keep the discussion civil.

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, DM07 said:

Wouldn't forward thinking and proper planing be a wonderful thing, too?!

Oh I know lets all stay in bed all day, nothing will ever happen to us then, maybe a few bedsores, but hey.

The coach did nothing wrong!

[steve73]

20 minutes ago, pathologix said:

That is not defamation. It's an opinion that there should be more than one adult when spelunking with a group of a dozen kids. (An opinion I don't agree with, as additional adults would just mean more people to be rescued.)

 

Defamation requires that the person negligently says/writes an untruth in an effort to harm a person's character. 

Not wishing to get off-topic here, but it's my understanding that defamation here in Thailand does not need to make an untruth... Even if you make a true statement about anyone, which  harms their character or reputation may be classed as defamation.

I'm happy to be corrected in this if I'm mistaken...

[pathologix]

4 minutes ago, steve73 said:

Not wishing to get off-topic here, but it's my understanding that defamation here in Thailand does not need to make an untruth... Even if you make a true statement about anyone, which  harms their character or reputation may be classed as defamation.

I'm happy to be corrected in this if I'm mistaken...

I'm not a Thailand-qualified lawyer, but I believe the 'truthful defamation' in Thailand only applies to people who are NOT public figures, as this coach surely is at this point. Libel and slander against public figures needs to untruthful. Also, I think 'truthful defamation' requires provable intent to cause harm. 

 

The original poster essentially said 'The coach led the kids into the cave' (statement of fact about public figure, non-libelous), and 'I believe that was stupid for xyz reasons' (opinion about leading kids into caves). And it wasn't said to the coach's job in attempt to get him fired (non-public-figure defamation), for example. So – again without having personally seen how Thai judges adjudicate these cases – I would highly doubt that post come within a million miles of defamation. If the standards were so low that it did, this forum would be buried in lawsuits. 

[JAZZDOG]

3 minutes ago, pathologix said:

I'm not a Thailand-qualified lawyer, but I believe the 'truthful defamation' in Thailand only applies to people who are NOT public figures, as this coach surely is at this point. Libel and slander against public figures needs to untruthful. Also, I think 'truthful defamation' requires provable intent to cause harm. 

 

The original poster essentially said 'The coach led the kids into the cave' (statement of fact about public figure, non-libelous), and 'I believe that was stupid for xyz reasons' (opinion about leading kids into caves). And it wasn't said to the coach's job in attempt to get him fired (non-public-figure defamation), for example. So – again without having personally seen how Thai judges adjudicate these cases – I would highly doubt that post come within a million miles of defamation. If the standards were so low that it did, this forum would be buried in lawsuits. 

Your absolutely correct, You are not a Thailand-qualified lawyer and either am I. Having said that the posters implications were very clear to most who read on several postings. I try to put myself in this young mans shoes and in his family and also these young boys and their families shoes. I am sure they share my disgust over such implications by this person who knows absolutely nothing about this young man. I believe he deserves a great deal of credit not only for guiding these kids through this crisis but also giving of his time to improve their lives and possibly be a father figure to some of the boys who so often here do not have one. This poster owes him an immediate apology.

[Vacuum]

15 hours ago, ikke said:

if there is one to blame its the government to not close the cave if they knew it was this dangerous, but you know what ? They didn't know

What's all the efforts to find someone to blame about? Is this an instinct behaviour I'm missing? This was an unforeseen event that happened, there's nobody to blame.

[pathologix]

17 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

Your absolutely correct, You are not a Thailand-qualified lawyer and either am I. Having said that the posters implications were very clear to most who read on several postings. I try to put myself in this young mans shoes and in his family and also these young boys and their families shoes. I am sure they share my disgust over such implications by this person who knows absolutely nothing about this young man. I believe he deserves a great deal of credit not only for guiding these kids through this crisis but also giving of his time to improve their lives and possibly be a father figure to some of the boys who so often here do not have one. This poster owes him an immediate apology.

Basically, you want somebody to apologise for having a different opinion than you. Pretty weak rhetoric, IMO. There is no law against thinking somebody made a bad decision.

 

And for the record, aside from your hazy relationship with the facts, I generally agree with you. From the information available, I personally think the coach has been a hero. I think it's silly to blame him for an unforeseen accident, and that all the evidence points to the idea that he did a good job of keeping the team alive for so long. Sacrificing his own food, possibly risking his own death, is undoubtedly a heroic act, regardless of whether or not one believes it was reasonable to enter the cave. 

 

As for the decision to enter: I assume he is from the area. So, he has likely lived 25 years without ever hearing of anybody getting trapped in this cave by flooding. He has experienced 25 years of people (including this team) going into the cave and returning safely. The fact that this is so unprecedented points to the idea that he should not have been expected to be able to predict it. He seems to really care about the team, and I highly doubt he would have done anything to knowingly place them (and himself) in harm's way. I can't see any negligent intent.

 

He's certainly not the first person in the world – or in Chiang Rai – to be unprepared for a wilderness adventure gone wrong. Even the world's most knowledgeable, highly-trained trekkers, climbers, skiers, etc. get in trouble due to unexpected weather. And one shouldn't need a doctorate in spelunking to go down to their local cave. While I think a lot of it comes down to bad luck and a lack of knowledge (that he shouldn't be expected to possess), there was obviously some human error – but making small mistakes is simply part of being human. 

[vogie]

14 minutes ago, DM07 said:

Your opinion and you are entitled to it!

But that is all it is!

If events were not predictable it wouldn't be much of an adventure and more to the point, you cannot predict nature.

[JAZZDOG]

18 minutes ago, pathologix said:

Basically, you want somebody to apologise for having a different opinion than you. Pretty weak rhetoric, IMO. There is no law against thinking somebody made a bad decision.

 

And for the record, aside from your hazy relationship with the facts, I generally agree with you. From the information available, I personally think the coach has been a hero. I think it's silly to blame him for an unforeseen accident, and that all the evidence points to the idea that he did a good job of keeping the team alive for so long. Sacrificing his own food, possibly risking his own death, is undoubtedly a heroic act, regardless of whether or not one believes it was reasonable to enter the cave. 

 

As for the decision to enter: I assume he is from the area. So, he has likely lived 25 years without ever hearing of anybody getting trapped in this cave by flooding. He has experienced 25 years of people (including this team) going into the cave and returning safely. The fact that this is so unprecedented points to the idea that he should not have been expected to be able to predict it. He seems to really care about the team, and I highly doubt he would have done anything to knowingly place them (and himself) in harm's way. I can't see any negligent intent.

 

He's certainly not the first person in the world – or in Chiang Rai – to be unprepared for a wilderness adventure gone wrong. Even the world's most knowledgeable, highly-trained trekkers, climbers, skiers, etc. get in trouble due to unexpected weather. And one shouldn't need a doctorate in spelunking to go down to their local cave. While I think a lot of it comes down to bad luck and a lack of knowledge (that he shouldn't be expected to possess), there was obviously some human error – but making small mistakes is simply part of being human. 

I am with you except it was clearly the posters intent to imply that the coach was leading this group into "a dark cave" and the motivation was somehow sexual. This is too common in the world today, pulling the race card, the sexual molestation card with no proof or evidence yet the damage is done. In this case denying what the posters intent clearly was is really weak and only enables him to continue. His problem, not mine. Now may we return to the topic which is praising the coach for his conduct.

[Rimmer]

Multiple off topic bickering/ flames have been removed, you can stop now or there will be holidays given out.

[pathologix]

20 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

it was clearly the posters intent to imply that the coach was leading this group into "a dark cave" and the motivation was somehow sexual. 

I didn't read the comment you referenced that way. Going back and looking again, I still don't see that inference. But if it was the poster's intent, then I agree it's libelous and out of order. 

 

Furthermore, I'm honestly baffled at this forum's bloodlust – members' deep-seeded need to level blame and hurl hatred at [Thai] people, whether or not they deserve it. Rarely based on documented facts, this vitriol seems totally misplaced and poorly timed. Whether it's the coach, the governor, the SEAL team, the forestry department, the hospital staff, etc. – no reliable reports have come out to make any of these people deserving of such hostility. From all the evidence, this was an unprecedented accident, and a lot of really altruistic people have been doing all they can for the wellbeing of these kids. Until some really compelling evidence to the contrary comes out, it would make we in the peanut gallery look a lot more empathetic and honorable to give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

Compared to Katrina, Irene and countless other recent weather-related disasters around the world, the response – from the coach to the British divers up to the prime minister – seems to be about as good as one could hope for given the extremely difficult circumstances. 

[pathologix]

19 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Well in that case how about sending ur own children with him to a cave trip without any other adults there and then i hope u can also respect mine decision to do not allow my children to join.

Ugh. I take it all back.

[JAZZDOG]

6 minutes ago, pathologix said:

I didn't read the comment you referenced that way. Going back and looking again, I still don't see that inference. But if it was the poster's intent, then I agree it's libelous and out of order. 

 

Furthermore, I'm honestly baffled at this forum's bloodlust – members' deep-seeded need to level blame and hurl hatred at [Thai] people, whether or not they deserve it. Rarely based on documented facts, this vitriol seems totally misplaced and poorly timed. Whether it's the coach, the governor, the SEAL team, the forestry department, the hospital staff, etc. – no reliable reports have come out to make any of these people deserving of such hostility. From all the evidence, this was an unprecedented accident, and a lot of really altruistic people have been doing all they can for the wellbeing of these kids. Until some really compelling evidence to the contrary comes out, it would make we in the peanut gallery look a lot more empathetic and honorable to give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

Compared to Katrina, Irene and countless other recent weather-related disasters around the world, the response – from the coach to the British divers up to the prime minister – seems to be about as good as one could hope for given the extremely difficult circumstances. 

Agreed, the effort here was A+ were as my countries effort in Puerto Rico was D-.