Rescue Diver Killed In Tham Luang Cave Complex

[Sheryl]

19 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

one article said he was a former Thai navy diver.  No doubt good intentioned but unless one is recently experienced and at the top of their game, well....  There doesn't seem to be a deep water issue there.  No buddy system diving? 

There is a buddy system and it was his buddy who saw he fell unconscious and got him out - which must have been a herculean task in itself.

[tifino]

11 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

There is a buddy system and it was his buddy who saw he fell unconscious and got him out - which must have been a herculean task in itself.

 but was he actually 'wet' working, or 'dry' working?

I am seeing conflicting stories and comments around the forum, that maybe he wasn't actually 'diving'

 

was the 'buddy' simply one of a 2 man each team; lugging (walking) tanks to/fro between dispersal points, for the actual divers to take them into the waters?

Edited July 6, 2018 by tifino

[travelling wilbury]

Sounds like foul air

  tv showed  them using a compressor inside to reflil bottles so pumping exhaust gas into bottles

Edited July 6, 2018 by travelling wilbury

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, yrag said:

Rescue Diver Killed ......No he was not killed...he died..Their is a difference Thai  Visa.

 

1. Thai Visa simply compiles these articles, we do not write them and are not responsible for content or wording. In fact, we are nto allowed to alter wording in any way.

 

2.  As has already been discussed in this thread, in many English speaking countries the use of "killed" to refer to accidental death is perfectly correct, and common.

[alien365]

1 hour ago, yrag said:

Mr. Realist ..

Rescue Diver Killed ......No he was not killed...he died..Their is a difference Thai  Visa.

If you're going to complain about the English, you could at least spell 'there' correctly.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, yrag said:

He not die diving, he was handling oxygen tanks, exhaustion and probably had a underlying health issue ,

Per the Navy Seal statement, he was transporting the tanks back and forth, and specifically at the time of his death transporting them from Chamber 3 to the T junction. As this distance includes a flooded segment I assume he was diving off and on throughout this task.

 

It is not clear if he was underwater or not at the time he lost consciousness.

 

 

[yrag]

4 minutes ago, alien365 said:

If you're going to complain about the English, you could at least spell 'there' correctly.

 

4 minutes ago, alien365 said:

If you're going to complain about the English, you could at least spell 'there' correctly.

is is spelled correctly

(in, at, or to that place or position.

"we went on to Paris and stayed there eleven days" )

There has the word here in it. There is the choice when talking about places, whether figurative or literal

apparently you need to learn ( there ) again my friend

[travelling wilbury]

24 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

1. Thai Visa simply compiles these articles, we do not write them and are not responsible for content or wording. In fact, we are nto allowed to alter wording in any way.

 

2.  As has already been discussed in this thread, in many English speaking countries the use of "killed" to refer to accidental death is perfectly correct, and common.

the use of "killed" to refer to accidental death is perfectly correct, and common.

NOT IN ENGLISH IT IS NOT 

[billd766]

4 hours ago, Analogue Photographer said:

"The diver was undertaking a long dive, fell unconscious "

Anybody here able to hazard an informed guess to this tragic news?

Surely the length of the dive is no more than a dive at sea??

 

RIP

 

It takes about 6 hours to get from the entrance to where the boys are and a further 5 hours on the return trip.

 

The difference is that at sea you only need to go up but in the cave you need to go along to the nearest dry point. I read that spare bottles were put in about 25 metres apart so theoretically he was no more than 12.5 metres from another bottle. Whether it was full, part full or empty nobody knows at this point and I will not speculate in any way.

[billd766]

3 hours ago, JAZZDOG said:

Pretty good rain coming down

 

Where exactly is the rain coming down?

[Bangkok Ape]

GO TIME... BREAKING: 12s ago
16:34
Belgian media have cited unconfirmed reports that the rescue mission will begin this evening and that a diving team will accompany the boys to the cave’s exit two-at-a-time.

 

 

[DILLIGAD]

Best of luck then!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[billd766]

2 hours ago, yrag said:

Rescue Diver Killed ......No he was not killed...he died..Their is a difference Thai  Visa.

And he was a volunteer. 38 yrs old...too old for this......Again Thai Visa he was not killed by anybody....He simply died a Hero in my eyes...Gave his life for those Kids...And the Kids be younger and will be much worst off if leave them there, they are finding that out now, low oxygen levels and rain to come can flood area were they are at...I see that coming....Have no other choice but get out now....

 

How old are the Brits who found the kids in the first place? Certainly older than the ex-SEAL but cave rescues is what they do worldwide. SEAL  training simply does not cover this.

 

 

2 hours ago, yrag said:

He not die diving, he was handling oxygen tanks, exhaustion and probably had a underlying health issue ,

 

Are you on site as co-ordinator? Are you his personal physician? Do you have any idea what he was doing? Do you have any idea what you are talking about, or are you just another TVF instant keyboard genius?

 

For someone as smart as you think you are why was he found in the water if he was not diving? How long had he been working that day and what was he doing? You must know the answer to that, as you claim to know everything else about him?

[lamyai3]

3 hours ago, yrag said:

Rescue Diver Killed ......No he was not killed...he died..Their is a difference

There, not their. 

 

You're quite wrong about killed, the headline gives a normal and commonplace usage of the word. News articles in the UK are full of such examples where someone is killed by anything from a lightning strike, a falling coconut, extreme weather conditions or a car accident, regardless of how it happened. "Killed" puts the emphasis on the outside cause, "died" refers to the victim. 

[josephbloggs]

3 hours ago, Just1Voice said:

Trust me, I am hardly "negative".  But I am a realist.  Blame it on being a U.S. Marine for 20 years of you want.  Personally I don't care.  I can look at a situation and see both the positive and negative aspects of it.  

 

Ah, ok, then in that case we all respect you and you can belittle the Thais all you like.  A US Marine no less.  Based in Pattaya now perhaps?

 

 

[YTP]

Just want to leave my respect for this great man.

 

RIP

[yrag]

He died of natural cause or complete exhaution possibly, at 39 too old ...was not a accident or killed by anything...He simply died

And your quite wrong...

( Kill ) assassinate, eliminate, terminate, dispatch, finish off, put to death, execute; 

slaughter, butcher, massacre, wipe out, annihilate, exterminate, mow down, shoot down, cut down, cut to pieces; 

informalbump off, polish off, do away with, do in, knock off, take out, croak, stiff, blow away, liquidate, dispose of, ice, snuff, rub out, waste, whack, smoke; 

euphemisticneutralize; 

literaryslay

"gangs killed twenty-seven people"

[wotsdermatter]

13 hours ago, webfact said:

Rescue Diver Killed In Luang Cave Complex

Killed means to cause the death of a person, animal, or other organism.  Surely it would have been more appropriate to use DIED instead of killed in the headline.

[yrag]

39 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

How old are the Brits who found the kids in the first place? Certainly older than the ex-SEAL but cave rescues is what they do worldwide. SEAL  training simply does not cover this.

 

 

 

Are you on site as co-ordinator? Are you his personal physician? Do you have any idea what he was doing? Do you have any idea what you are talking about, or are you just another TVF instant keyboard genius?

 

For someone as smart as you think you are why was he found in the water if he was not diving? How long had he been working that day and what was he doing? You must know the answer to that, as you claim to know everything else about him?

And you self righteous one, articles  stated this...are you the critic here in these post...get a life

[josephbloggs]

Can we all stop debating the semantics of "killed" vs "died"???  IT IS NOT IMPORTANT!

 

A man lost his life heroically doing his best to help people he has never met.  There are a thousand people also helping.  No matter what they are doing they are all sacrificing - sacrificing their life in the most extreme case, sacrificing seeing their families, sacrificing their earnings, sacrificing their farm land, sacrificing their time and their effort.

 

THE SEMANTICS DO NOT MATTER!!  Have some respect for this poor man and his family and don't bicker over the description of his death.  Get a grip people!

[Just1Voice]

29 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Ah, ok, then in that case we all respect you and you can belittle the Thais all you like.  A US Marine no less.  Based in Pattaya now perhaps?

 

 

I never belittled the Thai at all.  I have a great deal of respect for the Thai SEALS.  As for where I'm "based", you couldn't pay me to go to Pattaya or Pukett.  Been to both in my younger days, but that was over 30 years ago.  So, I'm no "barstool commando", SAS or SpecOps.  I'm in Chiang Mai, where I've been happily married to a wonderful Thai woman for over 10 years now.  I adopted her 24 year old Thai son, who then legally changed his last name to mine to "honor the man who is my father".  Making assumptions about people you know knowing about only shows YOUR ignorance.  

 

[oldlakey]

43 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

There, not their. 

 

You're quite wrong about killed, the headline gives a normal and commonplace usage of the word. News articles in the UK are full of such examples where someone is killed by anything from a lightning strike, a falling coconut, extreme weather conditions or a car accident, regardless of how it happened. "Killed" puts the emphasis on the outside cause, "died" refers to the victim. 

The correct word is dies in this case because nothing was offered as a reason for his death or what KILLED him in the headline

Rescue diver dies in Tham Luang cave complex

The BBC has their headline as the diver died not killed

 

[josephbloggs]

4 minutes ago, Just1Voice said:

I never belittled the Thai at all.  I have a great deal of respect for the Thai SEALS.  As for where I'm "based", you couldn't pay me to go to Pattaya or Pukett.  Been to both in my younger days, but that was over 30 years ago.  So, I'm no "barstool commando", SAS or SpecOps.  I'm in Chiang Mai, where I've been happily married to a wonderful Thai woman for over 10 years now.  I adopted her 24 year old Thai son, who then legally changed his last name to mine to "honor the man who is my father".  Making assumptions about people you know knowing about only shows YOUR ignorance.  

 

I didn't need your life story, but if I misjudged you I apologise.

 

However, you have consistently been the most negative person in this thread and nobody needs that - it seems like you know better and let's face it, nobody knows better than the people who are there now, giving their all, not people sniping from the sidelines (I would say sniping from their barstools but maybe I can say sniping from their wonderful family dining room table).  Let's keep things positive here and respect the people who are putting their life on the line  - sniping from the side lines only reflects badly on the sniper.

[josephbloggs]

1 minute ago, josephbloggs said:

I didn't need your life story, but if I misjudged you I apologise.

 

However, you have consistently been the most negative person in this thread and nobody needs that - it seems like you know better and let's face it, nobody knows better than the people who are there now, giving their all, not people sniping from the sidelines (I would say sniping from their barstools but maybe I can say sniping from their wonderful family dining room table).  Let's keep things positive here and respect the people who are putting their life on the line  - sniping from the side lines only reflects badly on the sniper.

Have you seen this thread?  You might want to offer your advice there as it seems most of the experts on this thread don't want to.

[josephbloggs]

Any of the experts on here wish to share their thoughts on this thread?  Please come over as we really need your expert input.  Ex SAS, Ex Navy Seals, Ex Military, Cave experts, diving experts, drilling experts - you are all welcome.   We are especially looking for belitting, so any belittling experts please come along.

 

Roll up, roll up:  

 

 

 

[Just1Voice]

10 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

I didn't need your life story, but if I misjudged you I apologise.

 

However, you have consistently been the most negative person in this thread and nobody needs that - it seems like you know better and let's face it, nobody knows better than the people who are there now, giving their all, not people sniping from the sidelines (I would say sniping from their barstools but maybe I can say sniping from their wonderful family dining room table).  Let's keep things positive here and respect the people who are putting their life on the line  - sniping from the side lines only reflects badly on the sniper.

You are totally misunderstanding my posts.  I am not trying to be negative in any way, shape or form.  I'm merely looking at the logistics of this rescue and weighing the odd in my mind on how successful it will be.  During my time in the Corps, I was involved in a number of S&R (Search & Rescue) missions, and can tell you from personal experience, seldom do they go as planned.  I hope and pray they get ever one of them out alive, but also have sense enough to know that may not be possible under the circumstances.  That's not being "negative", it's being realistic. 

 

Edited July 6, 2018 by Just1Voice

[Joel23]

10 hours ago, BEVUP said:

This would be my thought as well 

I couldn't imagine a navy seal running out of air, & I'm sure they would be trained to swap bottles in that event 

 

How long had he been diving on/off without a proper break - Would this of had some affect (not sure of leading to unconsciousness )

 

Yeah maybe. But at this shallow depths the body doesn't even pile up enough nitrogen to have an effect. I would claim that when you get up every 1,5 hour for 30 minutes you can dive a week

respectively as long you have the strength for it. 

The other thing are the "small" distances underwater. The locations which are flooded  are 10 or 30 meters long with the possibility to ascend between them, as a German cave diver explained it today. Considering the cold temperatures, air consumption might be high, conservative calculated maybe 30l/min (at average of 3 meters), which still gives some 50 mins until the tank is empty. Subtract 13% when the tank was filled at (and heats up to) 50C and is used in 10C cold water.

 

If I would be diving a second or third time in there I would know which part underwater took me (when) how long, so I can roughly calculate if I can make the next flooded part with the air I'd left.

On a normal dive (in and out at the same spot) a normal diver is teached to go back when his tank is half empty...

 

[lamyai3]

48 minutes ago, oldlakey said:

The correct word is dies in this case because nothing was offered as a reason for his death or what KILLED him in the headline

Rescue diver dies in Tham Luang cave complex

The BBC has their headline as the diver died not killed

 

Died is probably the better word choice agree, but killed is legitimate - the cause is implied. Here's another example from international media:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-xl/asia/other/final-salute-for-former-thai-navy-seal-killed-in-cave-rescue/vi-AAzFfoO

[Joel23]

12 hours ago, Brewster67 said:

But that is the whole situation..... there isn't a mile of diving to get out.... the flooded sections are hundreds of feet at the longest and just a few feet at the shortest..... the entire rescue is going to have to be in stages....

 

Like I said in my original post

 

'one section at a time'

You are right - but here is the narrow part, two maps claims it 72cm wide and 38cm high (which is tighter than I thought):

[Joel23]

1 hour ago, yrag said:

He died of natural cause or complete exhaution possibly, at 39 too old ...was not a accident or killed by anything...He simply died

And your quite wrong...

( Kill ) assassinate, eliminate, terminate, dispatch, finish off, put to death, execute; 

slaughter, butcher, massacre, wipe out, annihilate, exterminate, mow down, shoot down, cut down, cut to pieces; 

informalbump off, polish off, do away with, do in, knock off, take out, croak, stiff, blow away, liquidate, dispose of, ice, snuff, rub out, waste, whack, smoke; 

euphemisticneutralize; 

literaryslay

"gangs killed twenty-seven people"

Lol, 39 too old?

Sorry, you must be kidding. I started diving when I was 42, after three years I was divemaster.
This cave diving is something totally different, but this wasn't because of the age.