May wins support from divided UK government on Brexit plan

[stephenterry]

6 minutes ago, sammieuk1 said:

As David Davis has now resigned the Brexit debacle continues 24/7 the Tory's look set to implode and Corbyn is the opposition what a time Guy Fawkes .      

Pity it's not Keir Starmer as leader of the opposition. He, at least, talks common-sense politics, and a person I would vote for. 

[ivor bigun]

God.imagine Corbyn in power with that idiot Abbott at his side she cant even remember what day of the week it is.

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[vogie]

1 hour ago, stephenterry said:

Pity it's not Keir Starmer as leader of the opposition. He, at least, talks common-sense politics, and a person I would vote for. 

Pity it's not Margaret Thatcher in charge of the Tories, but I'm afraid you'll have to put up with the people the Labour members and the unions voted in.

[JackScarlett]

On 7/7/2018 at 6:47 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

Firstly is the accusation of ‘traitor’ necessary? 

 

The PM now has a ‘soft Brexit’ negotiating position agreed by her Cabinet (I do not believe she needs Parliamentary approval, I may be wrong).

 

This is a ‘negotiating position’ it is not a black and white demand.

 

I suspect the EU will be happy to negotiate and will achieve a ‘softer’ deal.

 

Hardline Brexiteers in the cabinet clearly buckled, it is they that have let Brexiteers down.

a person who betrays a friend, country, principle, etc.

"they see me as a traitor, a sellout to the enemy"

synonyms:

betrayer, backstabber, double-crosser, renegade, fifth columnist;

 

The question in June 2016 called for a 'Yes' or 'No" as to whether the UK left the EU or remained.  A majority of a million plus said 'Yes" leave.

Mrs May promised the electorate that she would honour that vote right up to the Chequers Meeting last week.   It is illusory to believe we will leave the EU under current the current plan i.e. The proposed Common Rule Book.   So yes I do think think she has betrayed the electorate in selling out to the enemy, namely the EU and therefore 'traitor' is entirely appropriate.

 

 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

15 minutes ago, JackScarlett said:

a person who betrays a friend, country, principle, etc.

"they see me as a traitor, a sellout to the enemy"

synonyms:

betrayer, backstabber, double-crosser, renegade, fifth columnist;

 

The question in June 2016 called for a 'Yes' or 'No" as to whether the UK left the EU or remained.  A majority of a million plus said 'Yes" leave.

Mrs May promised the electorate that she would honour that vote right up to the Chequers Meeting last week.   It is illusory to believe we will leave the EU under current the current plan i.e. The proposed Common Rule Book.   So yes I do think think she has betrayed the electorate in selling out to the enemy, namely the EU and therefore 'traitor' is entirely appropriate.

 

 

 

 

Brexiteer hyperbole continues.

 

Treason is a very serious crime, you need to come up with more than your own opinion.

[mfd101]

Ideology meets reality. Guess which one wins.

[JackScarlett]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Brexiteer hyperbole continues.

 

Treason is a very serious crime, you need to come up with more than your own opinion.

 

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Brexiteer hyperbole continues.

 

Treason is a very serious crime, you need to come up with more than your own opinion.

Yes my views on the matter plus a large swathe of commentators and the British Public.    But 'Que Sera Sera".   The first casualty of her plan is that POTUS has said that it will 'make a trade deal with the US less likely'.     Well done Donald, tell her how it is!  If the plan goes ahead current reaction in the UK is that the Tories will be punished at the next election and likely out of office for years..     The lady is a disaster as a politician who however would have made a good bureaucrat.    She got the 2017 General election totally wrong because she wouldn't listen to her ministers and as the resignations this last week and of the apparent majority reaction  of the public, she is wrong again.

 

But hey, I respect your views and in a democracy everyone is allowed to differ.   Have a great day.

Edited July 13, 2018 by JackScarlett
spelling mistake

[dick dasterdly]

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Brexiteer hyperbole continues.

 

Treason is a very serious crime, you need to come up with more than your own opinion.

I'm inclined to agree.

 

May is just doing her best to find a way to the softest brexit possible - without alienating the electorate.....

 

Let's not forget that she was a remainer, and knows that the vast majority of MPs are remainers.

 

Whilst I understand the 'treasonous' comment - it's not entirely accurate in this case.

 

It's deplorable, and time will tell whether the electorate allow her (and the govt.) to get away with this.

[dick dasterdly]

3 hours ago, mfd101 said:

Ideology meets reality. Guess which one wins.

Money?

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'm inclined to agree.

 

May is just doing her best to find a way to the softest brexit possible - without alienating the electorate.....

 

Let's not forget that she was a remainer, and knows that the vast majority of MPs are remainers.

 

Whilst I understand the 'treasonous' comment - it's not entirely accurate in this case.

 

It's deplorable, and time will tell whether the electorate allow her (and the govt.) to get away with this.

The PM has many responsibilities, security, defence, the economy (I’m sure I need not list them all).

 

Brexit is just one among many issues that she has to balance.

 

The accusation that she is a ‘traitor’ 

is disgraceful, it further polarized the discussion and closes the door on discussing and understanding wider issues that the nation faces.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

Money?

The worst thing about money is the bitter reality that confronts those who don’t have any.

[Jip99]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The worst thing about money is the bitter reality that confronts those who don’t have any.

 

 

Isn't that what Socialism is there for ?

[JackScarlett]

Notwithstanding the many opinions on the subject, I would ask a simple question of the Prime Minister, and that would be 'can you not see the 'writing is on the wall'?    Your Chequers plan has a 7% approval from the public in the latest opinion poll taken this last weekend.   68% want you gone by the time of the next election.  Ministers both Senior and Junior are resigning  - 8 until today - with probably more to come in the coming week.

 

The EU is going to want more concessions for sure, that is unless there has been a sudden change of heart, so in all probability are going to reject it.   She will have to agree to water it down further or accept a 'No Deal'.

 

The PM has little or no chance of getting it through parliament and she has managed with her plan to unite even staunch Remainers such a Lord Mandelson and Tony Blair with the Bexiteers - albeit for different reasons - with Mandelson writing that the plan was the worst of all options and that the plan is like 'a dogs breakfast which will produce a deal that nobody in the UK wants'.   All the opposition parties have currently said they will not  vote for it plus any number of up to about 60 Conservatives who will join them. 

 

She still has a opportunity to deliver in total what was promised but I fear that because as a Remainer, she never intended to break free from the EU.   As was said yesterday on the Sunday Politics show, 'once a Remainer always a Remainer'.

 

We will probably have to wait until the autumn when the PM either goes or is pushed, and someone who truly believes in a genuine Brexit becomes PM.   I live in hope!

[dunroaming]

Well I have some common ground with JackScarlet here.

 

May's Chequers plan won't work in Britain's favour.   She cannot deliver the "promised Brexit" because she promised things that could not be delivered.  You keep all the bluff and rhetoric for the negotiating table, not for public commitments.  From that moment on it was evident that she would have to make concessions and fail in her ambitions.  Johnson and JRM tried to bully her into a so called "hard Brexit".  Fine in theory but again totally unworkable.

 

The EU have always had the stronger hand and they really don't need to compromise.  They are holding their ground just as we would in the circumstances.  But in a way that makes it slightly more straightforward.  Once the options are clear then at least some progress can be made.

 

Today Justine Greenwood has proposed (yet again) a second referendum.  This time based, almost word for word, on what I proposed on TV, about a year ago.  A three way vote.  One would be going with Mays negotiated deal, a second would be leaving with no deal and the third with staying in the EU.

 

Now before you all start shouting, I am not advocating this 2nd referendum, we have had these debates too many times in the past. I am raising it because the options Greenwood has highlighted are in fact very nearly where we are.  Whether the people get a final vote or not it is likely that parliament will. 

 

Both leavers and remainers agree that May's current proposals are unworkable and massively let us all down.  So are we going to end up with No Deal or No Brexit?  And more importantly, do you believe that the people who will have that final say are going to go with what is best for the country against what is best for them? 

[citybiker]

@jackscarlet

&

@dunroaming

 

Et al.

 

Interesting and valid points in reference to PMTM and her extremely questionable Brexit paper. The common ground agreement appears to be the CRB, the common rule book element of her plan.

 

Unfortunately, May is approaching this far too nicely nicely and this CRB is her attempt to propose this in tangible terms, however what May consistently either ignores or forgets is the EU wants to tactically punish the UK without making it bluntly obvious to those who are able to analysis and scrutinise in a balance & non bias format, PMTM is a currently tolerated domestically and Brussels.

 

When your chief negotiator resigns that should have been a clear warning shot that her plan needs serious amendment, Justine Greening should be sacked forthwith and the political establishment should get a grip.

 

 

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[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, citybiker said:

@jackscarlet

&

@dunroaming

 

Et al.

 

Interesting and valid points in reference to PMTM and her extremely questionable Brexit paper. The common ground agreement appears to be the CRB, the common rule book element of her plan.

 

Unfortunately, May is approaching this far too nicely nicely and this CRB is her attempt to propose this in tangible terms, however what May consistently either ignores or forgets is the EU wants to tactically punish the UK without making it bluntly obvious to those who are able to analysis and scrutinise in a balance & non bias format, PMTM is a currently tolerated domestically and Brussels.

 

When your chief negotiator resigns that should have been a clear warning shot that her plan needs serious amendment, Justine Greening should be sacked forthwith and the political establishment should get a grip.

 

 

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Actually, she should have been sacked when she made David Davis her chief negotiator;

[nauseus]

38 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Actually, she should have been sacked when she made David Davis her chief negotiator;

Yes, he should have been PM.

[citybiker]

Actually, she should have been sacked when she made David Davis her chief negotiator;

Maybe slight confusion here.

PMTM made David Davis chief negotiator not Justine Greening.

Justine Greening is advocating a 2nd referendum, which is undermining HMG Brexit task and should resign, chief whip should discipline JG.

David Davis resigned as he couldn’t support Mays flawed Brexit plan, it’s called honour and integrity, whilst others have stated May has given too many compromises.


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[melvinmelvin]

10 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Yes, he should have been PM.

 

????????+

dodgy davis PM?

 

by and large I think UK should be happy that dodgy davis (and BJ Johnson) is out of the way

 

may open the way for something useful

 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

????????+

dodgy davis PM?

 

by and large I think UK should be happy that dodgy davis (and BJ Johnson) is out of the way

 

may open the way for something useful

 

One thing I think that I could say is that Davis is not "dodgy". That was Cameron.

 

 

[bristolboy]

13 minutes ago, nauseus said:

One thing I think that I could say is that Davis is not "dodgy". That was Cameron.

 

 

What Brexit impact papers? Take our quiz on what David Davis said

David Davis told a committee of MPs on Wednesday that the UK government had produced no economic forecasts on the likely impact of Brexit on various sectors of the economy.

It seemed to stand in marked contrast to many of the things he had said before about analysis being carried out by his Department for Exiting the European Union (DExEU).

See if you can identify where and when Davis has previously talked about the impact studies and analysis being carried out on a sectoral basis.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/07/what-brexit-impact-papers-quiz-on-what-david-davis-said-when

 

Brexit secretary admits there are no impact papers

https://www.ft.com/content/8ca38822-da75-11e7-a039-c64b1c09b482

 

Edited July 16, 2018 by bristolboy

[naboo]

Davis lives in fantasy land, alongside all the other Brexiteers. May has compromised too much? Any compromise is too much for these idiots. It's either cake and eat it or toys out of the pram.

[nontabury]

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

What Brexit impact papers? Take our quiz on what David Davis said

David Davis told a committee of MPs on Wednesday that the UK government had produced no economic forecasts on the likely impact of Brexit on various sectors of the economy.

It seemed to stand in marked contrast to many of the things he had said before about analysis being carried out by his Department for Exiting the European Union (DExEU).

See if you can identify where and when Davis has previously talked about the impact studies and analysis being carried out on a sectoral basis.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/07/what-brexit-impact-papers-quiz-on-what-david-davis-said-when

 

Brexit secretary admits there are no impact papers

https://www.ft.com/content/8ca38822-da75-11e7-a039-c64b1c09b482

 

 

You have tried to imply that he made that statement,within the last couple of weeks, when in fact it was made last year. Since that time he has produced  a Brexit paper, which Appeaser May has seen fit to ignore, preferring a plan for a very watered down Brexit, produced  by a non elected, remaining senior civil servant.

In other-words, by someone who is very ingrained in the establishment.

[bristolboy]

3 hours ago, nontabury said:

 

You have tried to imply that he made that statement,within the last couple of weeks, when in fact it was made last year. Since that time he has produced  a Brexit paper, which Appeaser May has seen fit to ignore, preferring a plan for a very watered down Brexit, produced  by a non elected, remaining senior civil servant.

In other-words, by someone who is very ingrained in the establishment.

Nonsense, I implied nothing of the sort. He claimed there were detailed studies and it turns out there weren't. If that isn't "dodgy" , can you please provide me with your definition of the word?

[tebee]

2 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Nonsense, I implied nothing of the sort. He claimed there were detailed studies and it turns out there weren't. If that isn't "dodgy" , can you please provide me with your definition of the word?

[citybiker]

Rather interesting developments, PMTM being forced to accept legal amendments to the chequers Brexit Bill, both levers and remainers up in arms.

IMO expect more resignations & the bill won’t be sent to Brussels in its current form that’s for sure.

The summer holidays couldn’t come quick enough for some people, primarily Mrs May.




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[Jip99]

3 minutes ago, citybiker said:

Rather interesting developments, PMTM being forced to accept legal amendments to the chequers Brexit Bill, both levers and remainers up in arms.

IMO expect more resignations & the bill won’t be sent to Brussels in its current form that’s for sure.

The summer holidays couldn’t come quick enough for some people, primarily Mrs May.




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MP's summer holidays should be deferred until they have sorted out this forking mess.....

[citybiker]

 
 
MP's summer holidays should be deferred until they have sorted out this forking mess.....

100% concur

Don't get me started on that, if Brexit was 'SO' important to the political establishment then a much reduced break should be implemented.

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[tebee]

2 minutes ago, citybiker said:

100% concur

Don't get me started on that, if Brexit was 'SO' important to the political establishment then a much reduced break should be implemented.

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Instead they are extending it, so the Government won't have to fight itself in the House of Parliament...

[citybiker]

Instead they are extending it, so the Government won't have to fight itself in the House of Parliament...

I've not seen evidence of an extension, although I do know the forthcoming party conference is making people very uncomfortable.

 

And for good reason it should.

 

https://www.parliament.uk/about/faqs/house-of-commons-faqs/business-faq-page/recess-dates/

 

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