Another change for U.S. Citizens.

[elektrified]

6 hours ago, cardinalblue said:

your US bank sends your annual income statements as well as YTD total assets. A combination of these 2 statements should satisfy CMI given your numbers meet the 65K monthly requirement.

Except many of us receive income from European business interests and elsewhere. I haven't used a U.S. bank in decades.

[The Theory]

2 hours ago, moontang said:

it is ordinary income in the US, unless it is within your IRA.  You can easily get your taxes back here, but it still counts as investment/interest from abroad that you should claim on your 1040.

How can I get the tax (interest earned from CD account tax) back from a Thai bank. ?

Edited July 11, 2018 by The Theory

[poanoi]

11 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

It's not a Non-O retirement visa and the rest of your post is equally ill-informed.

 

Another nonsense post. Neither you nor I could have any idea who cheats when applying for extensions of stay, including those who hire visa agents to fabricate mythical bank account balances.

 

Considering that the monthly income required for marriage and retirement extensions are about  $1250 and $2000 assuming that half the Americans in Thailand using those extensions couldn't muster that amount is laughable. 

considering that the average american monthly pension is around 1400 bucks,

that makes 50% americans above threshold and the other half below income threshold.

might be that the poorer half is over represented in thailand

[CMBob]

3 hours ago, The Theory said:

How can I get the tax (interest earned from CD account tax) back from a Thai bank. ?

A bit off-topic for this thread.  But, if you're referring to the 15% of your earned interest that is withheld and sent by your bank to the Thai Treasury department, you can get all of that back (providing you don't have other income or issues here in Thailand) by obtaining a Thai tax identification number and then filing a Thai income tax return.  There have been threads on where/how to do that long ago....hopefully you can find them.

[Dante99]

17 hours ago, grin said:

About a month ago I was asked for documents at Promenada to supplement my US affidavit of income for my retirement extension. I just printed copies of US bank statements and circled the deposits. The officer accepted that but did not inspect them closely.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

Thanks for that information.  Did they want a12 months of statements or was something less acceptable?

[gk10002000]

My retirement plans would not include transferring funds monthly!  I would be returning to the USA at least once a year.  And each time I return to Thailand I would be bringing in 10,000 USD.  Then the few times I need more money say for the 6 month period I plan to stay, I would simply use a few ATM, 30,000 baht withdrawals as needed.   My passive retirement income majority does NOT come from a monthly penson or social security.  I get like 60,000 USD interest and dividends from my stock and bond investments.  Some of those monies are paid out quarterly, such as the NLY or T stock dividends.  So I bunch up and withdraw my money as I see fit and to help me fiddle with my Taxation things and adjust my income as I convert Traditional IRA monies to ROTH IRA monies, etc.   I know the Thais or most Thais are expecting some sort of monthly thing.  Well, at some point enough is enough and every year I see the Thai officials change things and require more and more.   No problem.  I can just do two SETV with a 30 day extension each time and get 6 months of a year in Thailand.  I have plenty I can do at home or in other countries without trying to qualify for a Thai retirement VISA/extension.  The USA requires enough paperwork as I qualify for Social Security next year, Medicare shortly there after, constant local and Federal Tax paperwork, etc.  There will be a point where I don't want to do too much stuff like that in another country also!

[gk10002000]

11 hours ago, TonyClifton said:

Being honest as you said, I don't want to park 400,000 or 800,000 when the exchange rate sucks. Proving I have money shouldn't mean lost over $1500 at a low exchange rate.

I can keep 800,000 or about 25,000 USD invested and earning 5% every year.  And the monies are safe in my USA portfolios and not locked in a foreign country whose laws in no way favor foreigners.  I have plenty of money, but that doesn't mean I would want to put it in Thailand.  I prefer to invest my money as I see fit and not as some foreign country or any country would dictate

[gk10002000]

11 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

No, that's not correct. I have tax-deferred and tax exempt retirement accounts that both produce substantial income, and none of that is required to be reported or is reported as part of my federal tax returns.

 

correct.  I have about 1/2 of my 60,000 USD passive income from Tax free municipal bonds, municipal bond Funds and from my ROTH IRA which are all tax free.  However, on the beginning of the 1040 form, there is a place where one indicates tax free monies.  That being said, that would mean nothing to the Thais.  I am pretty sure they are heading towards the point where they want to see monthly deposits into a Thai bank account.  And soon, they will want to know where those monies come from, much as the USA hounds people about cash deposits, etc.  and where that money came from

[gk10002000]

My primary broker is Etrade.  Etrade has a simple Income Estimator that shows for one month, or one year the projected income you receive from your investments across any or all of your accounts, IRAs, etc.  It does not separate taxable from non-taxable, and it does not figure in any gross or net or income tax considerations.  I talked with Etrade and they said they would gladly supply a bank letter affirming the accuracy of the projections.  Now of course one may sell assets or holdings later.  But the same could happen to other income sources, pensions may dry up, etc.  So no way to predict what the future will be.  But if they keep requiring proof upon proof, and start talking gross income versus net income after taxation, etc.  it will get out of the Thai hands to adequately understand all the financial aspects from so many different countries.  That is why I would not be surprised that if one goes the monthly income method, the Thais will simply say:  Show record of monthly deposits into a Thai bank account in Thailand. 

[Thaidream]

Every  foreigner living in Thailand has to have someway of bringing their income into the country-

-ATM cards from an overseas bank- receipts from  Thai ATM or bank records from abroad

-Brokerage accounts - records and statements provided

-Rental income- leases and transfer to a bank

-Thai Account with foreign transfers

-Pension amounts and letters of proof.

 

Every form of income has some type of documentation and there is always a bottom line that can be shown as proof.  The immigration act clearly states that either proof of  65,000 Baht OR 800,000 in a  Thai Bank. Just give them  the Embassy/Consulate affidavit and a simple letter/statement from  bank/brokerage/other that matches or exceeds the affidavit. For those who have income from various sources- an accountant letter or lawyer letter- with a total should suffice.

 

 

 

I

[meechai]

10 hours ago, watcharacters said:

 

Do you  suppose  the IRS would go through all the necessary work to  accommodate the Thai government?

 

It would not accommodate the Thai Govt it would accommodate the IRS same as always

 

It would basically just be another 1099 form they received alerting them that these US citizens claim they had an income of xxxx per month

Simple cross check like IRS does for any 1099misc

They look & see yes this person does claim this US income = no problem 

or they see this person claims less or zero income= IRS will move forward with tax + penalties etc

 

So a person claiming income for the sole purpose of evading Thai Imm extension requirements

Just shot themselves in both feet by swearing at a US consulate to have XXX income ?

[meechai]

5 hours ago, poanoi said:

considering that the average american monthly pension is around 1400 bucks,

that makes 50% americans above threshold and the other half below income threshold.

might be that the poorer half is over represented in thailand

You know it ?

[JLCrab]

I think some of you are getting way overblown with this., The Thai IMM staff an CNX or elsewhere are not forensic accountants. Just show them some official looking paper or ATM slips on a Thai bank with 220 baht fee  with a reasonable approximation of your claimed income and I think you will be OK. They are mostly looking to weed out IMHO those who have NO documentation of any sort as to their monthly income.

 

[NancyL]

Remember that it's not just Americans that use Income Affidavits where they don't have to "prove" income to the Embassy/Consulates.  After a brief time last year where they tried asking their folks to provide "proof", the Aussies have returned to their long practice of accepting the oath of their people, just as the U.S. does.  I understand the Dutch operate the same way and presumably other countries operate the same way.

 

As was pointed out earlier in this post, someone brought a printout from their pension provider and showed it to Chiang Mai Imm and they barely glanced at it.  They just want something that "tells a good story". 

 

One year, I was asked how I had money to support myself when I hadn't touched my 800,000 baht Thai bank account for years and I said my husband's pension was adequate for both of us, brought out our joint Bangkok Bank account bankbook, opened it to where he could see it was a very active account and asked if he wanted to see it.  He waved it away.  All he wanted to see if I had a good story and didn't squirm because he may have thought I was working or doing something else illegal to do under a retirement visa.  I think it will be the same for anyone asked to provide proof of their retirement income.

[Mansell]

I went recently to get the US statement from the outreach. Unfortunately after four hours on a bus I spaced out and put down my income as over 22,000 dollars a month, and I didn't realize until I was heading home on the bus. Should I just do the extension, or shlep to BKK for another letter? Will the IM officer even notice? Another big hassle to go to BKK, but my bad.

[NancyL]

2 minutes ago, Mansell said:

I went recently to get the US statement from the outreach. Unfortunately after four hours on a bus I spaced out and put down my income as over 22,000 dollars a month, and I didn't realize until I was heading home on the bus. Should I just do the extension, or shlep to BKK for another letter? Will the IM officer even notice? Another big hassle to go to BKK, but my bad.

You need a new income letter. I'm surprised the Embassy people didn't question this boo-boo.

[sfokevin]

No one else has posted having a problem described by the OP as being a new policy for everyone?... The OP seemed to be relatively new to Thailand and may have just been profiled... It would be useful to know the OPs age and previous visa history... I agree with the recent posts that immigration is just looking to see if you are prepared and have a good story to show if asked... Much of what you would present to them they would not understand and as stated just wave you on with that... I would say that a Thai bank statement or ATM stub of foreign transfer into the country  would be the best and without these I can understand the Immigration finding you suspect...

 

Again has anyone else been subjected to this new policy?...

[steveolevi]

Thanks sfokevin. A breath of common sense amongst the inevitable hysteria over a single post. Lets hope for clarification from others.

[jmd8800]

This may not apply to everyone. I have 2 private pensions that I receive 1099-Rs for. Plus Social Security. Those forms might be enough to back up the income affidavit for US citizens. 

 

I also have letterheads from my two private pensions that show the amounts I will receive for life. Although anyone could have created these letters on a computer, they were acceptable when I applied for my Non-Imm O-A 4 years ago in Los Angeles. I showed the Consulate a bank statement as well but the balance was far below the requirement so it was approved pretty much on letterhead verification.

 

If you have reasonable documentation I think everyone will be OK. The others will just have to get creative.

 

 

[Kelsall]

21 hours ago, elektrified said:

This has been discussed on FB for a few days now. "Don't have the proof? Then come back when you do."

Which FB group?

[NancyL]

Recently, I heard the same story of request for back-up proof for a U.S. income letter for someone who was attempting a DIY visa conversion at CM Imm.  This may be just another technique they're using to make it difficult for newbies to try to do visa conversions themselves to encourage them to use agents.

[Small Joke]

20 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Did you get any feel for whether the same request was being made of everyone else/others?

 

I was there yesterday.  In the past they did not ask for a print out of the forex transfer from overseas, I was sent away to get it. And my TM30 acknowledged slip. And my other half's house documents, and her Thai ID. 

But it seemed pleasant and routine,  I didn't feel they had singled me out. 

[mtls2005]

24 minutes ago, jmd8800 said:

This may not apply to everyone. I have 2 private pensions that I receive 1099-Rs for. Plus Social Security. Those forms might be enough to back up the income affidavit for US citizens. 

 

I'm planning on having this for back-up. I assume CY 2017 1099's (-R & -SSA) would be sufficient?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Every  foreigner living in Thailand has to have someway of bringing their income into the country-

 

 

For income brought into Thailand,, yes. But there's also income that may never come into Thailand in the ways you describe above.

 

I figure, at present, probably half of my monthly spending IN Thailand is done via home country debit and credit cards, and none of that money ever comes into Thailand in a record keeping sense. It's only my outside Thailand income being spent here. So that income/spending would not get reflected in any Thai bank statement, ATM receipts, etc.

[gk10002000]

3 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Every  foreigner living in Thailand has to have someway of bringing their income into the country-

-ATM cards from an overseas bank- receipts from  Thai ATM or bank records from abroad

-Brokerage accounts - records and statements provided

-Rental income- leases and transfer to a bank

-Thai Account with foreign transfers

-Pension amounts and letters of proof.

 

Every form of income has some type of documentation and there is always a bottom line that can be shown as proof.  The immigration act clearly states that either proof of  65,000 Baht OR 800,000 in a  Thai Bank. Just give them  the Embassy/Consulate affidavit and a simple letter/statement from  bank/brokerage/other that matches or exceeds the affidavit. For those who have income from various sources- an accountant letter or lawyer letter- with a total should suffice.

 

 

 

I

Not true at all.  If one returns home and comes back with $10,000 in USD, there would not be any transaction record of money arriving in Thailand, which, I believe as time goes on the Thais are actually going to want to see.  I myself plan to return to the states at least twice a year as I have various interests there that require or I want to spend my attention on. So coming and going twice a year, I would not have to transfer much money to Thailand explicitly.  Cash and carry most of the time

[gk10002000]

28 minutes ago, jmd8800 said:

This may not apply to everyone. I have 2 private pensions that I receive 1099-Rs for. Plus Social Security. Those forms might be enough to back up the income affidavit for US citizens. 

 

I also have letterheads from my two private pensions that show the amounts I will receive for life. Although anyone could have created these letters on a computer, they were acceptable when I applied for my Non-Imm O-A 4 years ago in Los Angeles. I showed the Consulate a bank statement as well but the balance was far below the requirement so it was approved pretty much on letterhead verification.

 

If you have reasonable documentation I think everyone will be OK. The others will just have to get creative.

 

 

yah, a US counsel member would or certainly could be trained to understand what a 1099 is, what social security statements are, etc.  But as far as what a Thai official may request to see or demand, or in worse case demand to see monthly transfers INTO Thailand, well, we shall see how the cases pop up.  I could show lots of things, but would not want to show my bank account or IRA account numbers and yearly income statements or estimated monthly incomes.  All those numbers given freely to a foreign country that has no guarantees on safeguarding such information?  Getting quite risky.

[moontang]

34 minutes ago, jmd8800 said:

This may not apply to everyone. I have 2 private pensions that I receive 1099-Rs for. Plus Social Security. Those forms might be enough to back up the income affidavit for US citizens. 

 

I also have letterheads from my two private pensions that show the amounts I will receive for life. Although anyone could have created these letters on a computer, they were acceptable when I applied for my Non-Imm O-A 4 years ago in Los Angeles. I showed the Consulate a bank statement as well but the balance was far below the requirement so it was approved pretty much on letterhead verification.

 

If you have reasonable documentation I think everyone will be OK. The others will just have to get creative.

 

 

but what people are sidestepping is that you may need to show monthly remittances to Thailand that match your letter.  It would be very easy to show money moving into a bank account in the US, from many sources..showing 65000 per month transferred over would be much more difficult for most, and of the half that aren't lying, I don't think that many send it all over every month, and that would be a pretty fat SS check.  My dad paid the max in for decades and gets about 1700, but started getting it at 62, over 20 years ago.  Many get company pensions, too, many dont.  The big question is do they want to see the remittance.

Edited July 12, 2018 by moontang

[George Bowman]

3 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Every  foreigner living in Thailand has to have someway of bringing their income into the country-

This is true, but what about the Americans living here that make money from investments made here in Thailand? Property rentals for example. This money should be used in the calculation. I am probably wrong, but I have never seen specifically where it says the money must be brought from overseas. I have only heard that it should.

[JLCrab]

7 minutes ago, missoura said:

 but I have never seen specifically where it says the money must be brought from overseas. I have only heard that it should.

The income affidavit template from the US Embassy Bangkok states:

 

I also affirm that I receive a monthly income of $__XXX__ from sources in the United States.

Edited July 12, 2018 by JLCrab

[fullcave]

I never had any trouble just needed to provide proof of minimum 800,000 THB in the local bank for a minimum of 3 months. Have they changed the requirement now?