Elon Musk calls British diver in Thai cave rescue a 'pedo' in baseless attack

[AYJAYDEE]

5 minutes ago, canopy said:

Development of the mini-sub concept was encouraged by Richard Stanton, British diver, cave expert, and one of two that found the kids. So "frankly" the non believer in the sub have far less credibility than Stanton who was there and made the dive himself and went on to give crucial information and encouragement for the mini-sub. So how is the humble pie tasting?

 

feel free to show us where stanton said that the present iteration would work

[carmine]

17 minutes ago, canopy said:

Development of the mini-sub concept was encouraged by Richard Stanton, British diver, cave expert, and one of two that found the kids. So "frankly" the non believer in the sub have far less credibility than Stanton who was there and made the dive himself and went on to give crucial information and encouragement for the mini-sub. So how is the humble pie tasting?

 

Read the post again please.  I referred to this cave complex.  Not any cave complex.

 

Please explain to me how a rigid structure, nearly 6 foot in length was ever in a million years going to be able to negotiate its way through 15 inch gaps which bend into right angles?

 

If you can't please don't bother to reply and less of the childish humble pie tasting baloney.

 

perhaps you could also explain how you can fit a quart of liquid into a pint glass as this is directly relevant to your mini sub argument?  ?

Edited July 18, 2018 by carmine

[Hummin]

18 minutes ago, AYJAYDEE said:

lol! you think that sub could have gone up against that current without divers shepherding it? hahahahahah

I dont think he understand the problem with the buoyancy if they solved the size problem. It is nonsens the problem was solved when I look at the video he made. Alot of snagg points everywhere where it would be stuck, and as you say, getting it in there empty takes alot og ballast to. And can think of 10 more issues that could happen as well together with lack of back up system if something failed.

 

 

[canopy]

8 minutes ago, carmine said:

Please explain to me how a rigid structure, nearly 6 foot in length was ever in a million years going to be able to negotiate its way through 15 inch gaps which bend into right angles?

 

 

Sorry to snap at you because I can now see you are genuine and raise a good question. Elon was made aware by the experts of the narrow passages and knowledge of these intricacies resulted in choosing to make a number of different submarines suitable for each unique stretch of the cave. I think this one was for the area you refer to:

 

 

[Belzybob]

2 hours ago, canopy said:

 

Sorry to snap at you because I can now see you are genuine and raise a good question. Elon was made aware by the experts of the narrow passages and knowledge of these intricacies resulted in choosing to make a number of different submarines suitable for each unique stretch of the cave. I think this one was for the area you refer to:

 

 

 

You're starting to sound like a paid lobbyist. Have you considered that Stanton might have just been giving him 'polite encouragement' in the hope that he would just go away.

[domdom]

Some people seem incredibly aware of all the details of the so called Elon plan for submarine action...

 

Just saw on the net that investors (after the share dropped quite a lot) now require Musk to apologize to the british diver..

 

Have a nice day..

[canopy]

43 minutes ago, Belzybob said:

Have you considered that Stanton might have just been giving him 'polite encouragement' in the hope that he would just go away.

Stanton said to Elon by email: "It is absolutely worth continuing with the development of this system in as timely a manner as feasible. If the rain holds out it may well be used."

 

43 minutes ago, Belzybob said:

You're starting to sound like a paid lobbyist.

You mean because I slammed elon and called him stupid numerous times?

 

34 minutes ago, domdom said:

now require Musk to apologize to the british diver

Check the wire, elon has now publicly apologized. Please do not shoot me, I am just the messenger.

 

Edited July 18, 2018 by canopy

[lamyai3]

2 minutes ago, canopy said:

Stanton said to Elon by email: "It is absolutely worth continuing with the development of this system in as timely a manner as feasible. If the rain holds out it may well be used."

This email was made immediately before they embarked on day one of the rescue operation. No correspondence from Stanton after the three day rescue began, no comment was made on the prototypes made public by Musk a day or so later. 

[canopy]

No surprises there. The rescue team at that point had made the decision and were totally focused on executing what was an extremely difficult and risky plan as they should have been.

 

[ttrd]

Folks, we are soon to reach the same amount of posts based on the exchange of 2 heated sentences as for the whole rescue operation - thats really thought-provoking…..

Edited July 18, 2018 by ttrd

[domdom]

Would really like to read the exact apology of Musk... Sorry is not enough.. Has to be a full apology, stating what he said is false (let me remind you, he made a second tweet stating that his accusation was based on facts (he said people could bet on it)

Anyway, have a nice day..

[jspill]

11 hours ago, canopy said:

Stanton said to Elon by email: "It is absolutely worth continuing with the development of this system in as timely a manner as feasible. If the rain holds out it may well be used."

Looks like polite encouragement to me

[AYJAYDEE]

5 minutes ago, jspill said:

Looks like polite encouragement to me

and the rain didnt hold out  and they didnt continue with development. 

[jspill]

11 hours ago, canopy said:

Check the wire, elon has now publicly apologized. Please do not shoot me, I am just the messenger.

Very roundabout apology, he retweets an article written by one of his cultist fans, painting Musk in a good light and saying that's 'the real story'.

 

Then he replies to that tweet (can't even start the apology in the first tweet of the chain):

 

Replying to @adamchavez
As this well-written article suggests, my words were spoken in anger after Mr. Unsworth said several untruths & suggested I engage in a sexual act with the mini-sub, which had been built as an act of kindness & according to specifications from the dive team leader.

 

Can't resist claiming 'stick it where it hurts' is some sexual act, again implying Unsworth is some kind of deviant. When actually it's just common parlance. Then finally he replies again to that tweet with the actual apology, third in the chain, where hardly not as many people are going to actually read it. But he can claim he apologized, to please the % of people that want an apology, investors / Unsworth etc., without losing too much face to his fans. Very Thai:

 

Replying to @elonmusk @adamchavez
Nonetheless, his actions against me do not justify my actions against him, and for that I apologize to Mr. Unsworth and to the companies I represent as leader. The fault is mine and mine alone.

[jspill]

For reference, his 'sorry not sorry'. 

 

[canopy]

2 hours ago, jspill said:

Looks like polite encouragement to me

Which might explain Elon's response to Stanton:

 

"Right now, I have one of the world's best engineering teams who normally designs spaceships and spacesuits working on this thing 24 hours a day. We are trying to get it right in a very short period of time."

 

"If it isn't needed or won't help, that would be great to know. Otherwise, it would be very helpful to have as much design direction as possible".

 

And guess what happened next?

 

Edited July 18, 2018 by canopy

[AYJAYDEE]

12 minutes ago, canopy said:

Which might explain Elon's response to Stanton:

 

"Right now, I have one of the world's best engineering teams who normally designs spaceships and spacesuits working on this thing 24 hours a day. We are trying to get it right in a very short period of time."

 

"If it isn't needed or won't help, that would be great to know. Otherwise, it would be very helpful to have as much design direction as possible".

 

And guess what happened next?

 

as much as possible does not equal as much as necessary

 

[Poottrong]

Apologies if this has been posted already (haven't read the full thread). Interesting breakdown:

https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-full-story-behind-Elon-Musks-involvement-with-the-Thai-cave-rescue-effort

[canopy]

9 minutes ago, AYJAYDEE said:

as much as possible does not equal as much as necessary  

Stanton, one of two divers that discovered the kids, encouraged development of the mini-sub because he envisioned it could be useful in this particular rescue mission. Nothing you can say will ever change this. So it is time you justify to us why it is you know better than this great hero and cave expert and why he was so wrong and you are so right about everything. We are all waiting.

 

[AYJAYDEE]

8 minutes ago, canopy said:

Stanton, one of two divers that discovered the kids, encouraged development of the mini-sub because he envisioned it could be useful in this particular rescue mission. Nothing you can say will ever change this. So it is time you justify to us why it is you know better than this great hero and cave expert and why he was so wrong and you are so right about everything. We are all waiting.

 

the defining word being COULD not would. It arrived too late for proper development and testing and obviously all the pros decided it was not ready to tackle the job! they went with what worked .

[canopy]

Avoiding the question is not a satisfactory response. I repeat, tell us how Stanton was wrong to encourage development of the mini-sub because he envisioned it could be useful in this particular rescue mission.

 

[AYJAYDEE]

16 minutes ago, canopy said:

Avoiding the question is not a satisfactory response. I repeat, tell us how Stanton was wrong to encourage development of the mini-sub because he envisioned it could be useful in this particular rescue mission.

 

he wasnt wrong to encourage development. and given time it might have been useful. but there wasnt anywhere near enough time to test it, develop the ancillaries for it, perform any necessary fine tuning before the O2 levels dropped too low and the rains came., the divers knew it, told him so and went with what they had which was a better bet. and guess what? they were right,

.

[Hummin]

16 minutes ago, canopy said:

Avoiding the question is not a satisfactory response. I repeat, tell us how Stanton was wrong to encourage development of the mini-sub because he envisioned it could be useful in this particular rescue mission.

 

Nothing wrong about encurage Musk to try to find a solution, but when all came down to get the boys out, there where no time to start testing out the sub. As said before they who was in charge of the rescue, conclused it would not work. Is it so hard to accept the fact? No need to speculate anymore about that, before Musk prove it would have worked. But when it comes to using it in the real rescue, it was no time, and it ended up as one of  many ideas they had. In a rescue operation like that, as a rescuer, you stick with what you have drilled and what you know! You do not start testing new equipment!

[Artisi]

31 minutes ago, canopy said:

Stanton, one of two divers that discovered the kids, encouraged development of the mini-sub because he envisioned it could be useful in this particular rescue mission. Nothing you can say will ever change this. So it is time you justify to us why it is you know better than this great hero and cave expert and why he was so wrong and you are so right about everything. We are all waiting.

 

Maybe, but Stanton is a cave diver and one of the best, but he is not a design engineer and probably thought at the time we have to get the kids out any anything / idea is worth considering. 

So how about you justifying your continual defence of Musk and his sub-marine that was a flawed design from the start and nothing you say will change this. 

[canopy]

 

50 minutes ago, Artisi said:

So how about you justifying your continual defence of Musk and his sub-marine that was a flawed design from the start and nothing you say will change this. 

 

The idea and design of the sub came from cave experts in Thailand. So actually it is you who must explain why you feel you can ridicule these heroes and experts because it is your worthless opinion that it was "a flawed design from the start".

 

Edited July 19, 2018 by canopy

[AYJAYDEE]

5 minutes ago, canopy said:

 

 

The idea and design of the sub came from cave experts in Thailand. So actually it is you who must explain why you feel you can ridicule these heroes and experts because it is your worthless opinion that it was "a flawed design from the start".

 

lol, divers racing the monsoons to save 13 lives order a copy of autocad to sit down and design a mini sub while others order laser surveying gear to define all the contours of a 4 km cave  to supply info on the necessary design!! lol

[canopy]

Just now, AYJAYDEE said:

lol..divers racing the monsoons...lol

I find it in poor taste to hear people ridicule the cave experts. I believe they did their very best. Exploring many different solutions in parallel was exemplary. In fact not many may know, but many other great efforts were underway like drilling down to the kids astonishing distances and scaling down crevices nearly a kilometer  In my book they are heroes. Even the women who went out and volunteered to fix free meals for the rescuers.

 

[AYJAYDEE]

4 minutes ago, canopy said:

I find it in poor taste to hear people ridicule the cave experts. I believe they did their very best. Exploring many different solutions in parallel was exemplary. In fact not many may know, but many other great efforts were underway like drilling down to the kids astonishing distances and scaling down crevices nearly a kilometer  In my book they are heroes. Even the women who went out and volunteered to fix free meals for the rescuers.

 

pssst! there's only one person being ridiculed here today and it aint any of the rescuers?

[Artisi]

16 minutes ago, canopy said:

I find it in poor taste to hear people ridicule the cave experts. I believe they did their very best. Exploring many different solutions in parallel was exemplary. In fact not many may know, but many other great efforts were underway like drilling down to the kids astonishing distances and scaling down crevices nearly a kilometer  In my book they are heroes. Even the women who went out and volunteered to fix free meals for the rescuers.

 

Would you like to point out where "people" have ridiculed the cave experts - I don't recall it at all, except for your hero who called the guy instrumental in getting the real experts on the job, sus and a pedo'. You know the one - the one who has spent more time in this cave than probably any else on the planet, who supplied maps and first hand knowledge of the cave and likely problems - this the same one who had  the temerity to say the sub was a dud.

 

Many hero's many who will never be known - like the guy who travelled hundreds of kilometres on his bike and side-car to give ice-cream to the rescuers. 

You need to get over your nit-picking obsession over bugger-all.

 

[canopy]

20 hours ago, Artisi said:

Would you like to point out where "people" have ridiculed the cave experts

ANYONE who claims the sub was a bad idea, flawed from the start, or had no chance of working is insulting the cave experts who came up with the concept, set the design requirements, believed in it, and encouraged its development because they saw a practical use for it in this mission.These are experts that demonstrated excellent judgement and pulled off a successful mission. For someone who wasn't there to act like they know better is simply nonsense. Stanton envisioned a scenario where the sub in his words "may well be used". So please tell us how Stanton went wrong and stop trying to hide behind elon, it isn't working.