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Former UK minister calls for second vote on Brexit to end stalemate

 

FILE PHOTO: Justine Greening, Britain's Secretary of State for Education, arrives in Downing Street for a cabinet meeting in London, October 17, 2017. REUTERS/Hannah Mckay/File Photo

 

LONDON (Reuters) - A former senior British minister called on Monday for a second referendum to solve a parliamentary stalemate on Brexit, saying Prime Minister Theresa May's proposals for new ties with the European Union were a fudge that satisfied no one.

 

Justine Greening, an ex-Education Secretary who quit the government in January, said May's negotiating strategy would neither please those who wanted a clean break with the EU nor those who opposed Brexit altogether.

 

"We'll be dragging Remain voters out of the EU for a deal that means still complying with many EU rules, but now with no say on shaping them," Greening wrote in the Times newspaper.

 

"It's not what they want, and on top of that when they hear that Leave voters are unhappy, they ask, 'What's the point?'. For Leavers, this deal simply does not deliver the proper break from the European Union that they wanted."

 

May has ruled out a rerun of the 2016 vote in which Britons voted 52-48 percent to leave the bloc.

 

Her Brexit negotiating strategy, which aims for a close relationship with the EU after Britain leaves the bloc in March 2019, was only agreed with her cabinet earlier this month after two years of wrangling. Two senior ministers resigned in protest shortly afterwards.

 

May is now facing a possible rebellion from Brexit supporters in her Conservative Party who want her to ditch her plan when lawmakers vote on amendments to legislation on the government's post-Brexit customs regime on Monday.

 

However, she has told unhappy lawmakers that they needed to back her or risk there being no Brexit at all.

 

Greening said that with divisions in the Conservatives and the opposition Labour Party over how to proceed with Brexit, there should be another vote, with the public able to choose between May's plans, a "no-deal" break with the EU or remaining in the bloc.

 

"The only solution is to take the final Brexit decision out of the hands of deadlocked politicians, away from the backroom deals, and give it back to the people," she said.

 

(Reporting by Michael Holden; editing by Kate Holton)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-07-16

[Topdoc]

How about having a third referendum after the second referendum.

[dick dasterdly]

I'm assuming she is a remainer?  If so, suprise suprise....

 

Having said that, I'm inclined to agree with this part of her statement:-

 

"there should be another vote, with the public able to choose between May's plans, a "no-deal" break with the EU ".

Edited July 16, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[Blue Muton]

1 hour ago, Topdoc said:

How about having a third referendum after the second referendum.

So you're saying that we should have stuck with the result of the original referendum where 67% voted to join Europe, and that those who lost should have just lumped it?

Even Farage said he'd demand another referendum should the result of the last one be close.

[Chomper Higgot]

Brexit referendum to resolve schism in Tory party results in growing schism in Tory party- The nation suffers.

[JAG]

2 hours ago, Topdoc said:

How about having a third referendum after the second referendum.

Well that of course depends on the result...?

[RandolphGB]

There’s no stalemate. There are MPs blocking the democratic will of the people.

 

Those who are aware of the dictatorial nature of the unelected EU knew that they would demand second and third votes until they received the right answer. 

 

 

[Blue Muton]

1 hour ago, RandolphGB said:

There’s no stalemate. There are MPs blocking the democratic will of the people.

 

Those who are aware of the dictatorial nature of the unelected EU knew that they would demand second and third votes until they received the right answer. 

 

 

Stop peddling lies, the European Parliament is democratically elected, under a more representative system than Westminster. They are the only body within the EU that passes laws, as you are probably well aware.

[nauseus]

20 hours ago, Blue Muton said:

So you're saying that we should have stuck with the result of the original referendum where 67% voted to join Europe, and that those who lost should have just lumped it?

Even Farage said he'd demand another referendum should the result of the last one be close.

Since then some people have actually woken up and realised just what "Europe" means.

 

What Farage said is irrelevant. 

[dick dasterdly]

20 hours ago, Blue Muton said:

So you're saying that we should have stuck with the result of the original referendum where 67% voted to join Europe, and that those who lost should have just lumped it?

Even Farage said he'd demand another referendum should the result of the last one be close.

 

13 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Since then some people have actually woken up and realised just what "Europe" means.

 

What Farage said is irrelevant. 

It was MANY years before the brit. govt. finally acceeded to the demand for another referendum - and only then, because the rise of UKIP was becoming a major concern to politicians....

 

I've no problem with the remainers waiting equally as long for another referendum ?.  Assuming, of course, that a genuine brexit is delivered.

 

Of course they are entitled to complain and campaign about it for many years - as the leavers did previously.

Edited July 17, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[RuamRudy]

36 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Since then some people have actually woken up and realised just what "Europe" means.

 

What Farage said is irrelevant. 

So what is the problem? A slender majority was secured 2 years ago - if you are correct, a final referendum on the proposal will firmly underscore the mood of the people and take the wind from the sails of the remainers. What is not to like about that?

[dick dasterdly]

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

So what is the problem? A slender majority was secured 2 years ago - if you are correct, a final referendum on the proposal will firmly underscore the mood of the people and take the wind from the sails of the remainers. What is not to like about that?

I agree as long as the options are:-

 

1) accept the 'deal' agreed by the govt.

2) no deal.

 

Edit - Anything else leaves the govt. and other wealthy remain supporters even more opportunity to increase the 'fear factor', in the hope that it will result in a remain vote....

Edited July 17, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[rixalex]

5 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

So what is the problem? A slender majority was secured 2 years ago - if you are correct, a final referendum on the proposal will firmly underscore the mood of the people and take the wind from the sails of the remainers. What is not to like about that?

What is not to like is it guarantees a bad deal because the EU will know that the worse they make it for us, the greater the chance of it being voted down by the British public is, with the outcome of us returning to them, tail between legs.

 

Absolutely no incentive for them to give us a good deal, if they know there will be another referendum.

[nauseus]

15 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

So what is the problem? A slender majority was secured 2 years ago - if you are correct, a final referendum on the proposal will firmly underscore the mood of the people and take the wind from the sails of the remainers. What is not to like about that?

What proposal?

Edited July 17, 2018 by nauseus

[dick dasterdly]

3 minutes ago, rixalex said:

What is not to like is it guarantees a bad deal because the EU will know that the worse they make it for us, the greater the chance of it being voted down by the British public is, with the outcome of us returning to them, tail between legs.

 

Absolutely no incentive for them to give us a good deal, if they know there will be another referendum.

Thank you for pointing out the obvious, very clearly. (Edit - I was struggling to point out the obvious, to those demanding another referendum.)

Edited July 17, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[Guest]

2nd referendum would really be go day to get rid of this gridlock. Please make it happen and make it happen fast. 

 

 

[Blue Muton]

43 minutes ago, rixalex said:

What is not to like is it guarantees a bad deal because the EU will know that the worse they make it for us, the greater the chance of it being voted down by the British public is, with the outcome of us returning to them, tail between legs.

 

Absolutely no incentive for them to give us a good deal, if they know there will be another referendum.

Lol, you think the negotiations are going well so far? Do we have a good deal on the table? If so it would be accepted in a referendum almost unanimously, surely.

[rixalex]

6 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

Lol, you think the negotiations are going well so far? Do we have a good deal on the table? If so it would be accepted in a referendum almost unanimously, surely.

Where did i say that the negotiations were going well or that we had a good deal on the table?

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

I agree as long as the options are:-

 

1) accept the 'deal' agreed by the govt.

2) no deal.

 

Edit - Anything else leaves the govt. and other wealthy remain supporters even more opportunity to increase the 'fear factor', in the hope that it will result in a remain vote....

 

Not really into this democracy thingy are you?

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, oilinki said:

2nd referendum would really be go day to get rid of this gridlock.

How about best of three, and then best of five if you don't win the second vote?

 

My personal Brexit strategy, is stop giving the EU membership money, see how that works?

Can I be PM next?

Edited July 17, 2018 by BritManToo

[dunroaming]

23 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'm assuming she is a remainer?  If so, suprise suprise....

 

Having said that, I'm inclined to agree with this part of her statement:-

 

"there should be another vote, with the public able to choose between May's plans, a "no-deal" break with the EU ".

As I said on another thread, I am not advocating a second referendum, even though Justine Greening pretty much cut and pasted what I suggested on here about a year ago.  But we are heading towards the scenario where the government is in such disarray that it will come down to those options or even a straight No deal or No Brexit.

 

None of this is what people voted for but some still think we should carry on down the road on inevitable failure to achieve any sort of positive deal.

[dunroaming]

23 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'm assuming she is a remainer?  If so, suprise suprise....

 

Having said that, I'm inclined to agree with this part of her statement:-

 

"there should be another vote, with the public able to choose between May's plans, a "no-deal" break with the EU ".

As I said on another thread, I am not advocating a second referendum, even though Justine Greening pretty much cut and pasted what I suggested on here about a year ago.  But we are heading towards the scenario where the government is in such disarray that it will come down to those options or even a straight No deal or No Brexit.

 

None of this is what people voted for but some still think we should carry on down the road on inevitable failure to achieve any sort of positive deal.

[brewsterbudgen]

I would think it is obvious even to the most blinkered Brexiters that we should remain. Let the people decide!

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[dunroaming]

18 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I would think it is obvious even to the most blinkered Brexiters that we should remain. Let the people decide!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

The Brexiteers will fight tooth and nail against having a second referendum.  Is it because they don't believe that people would vote leave the next time?  Anyway we been here before so let's not have that debate again.

 

Lets instead look at a possible unfolding scenario.  May trots off to put her proposals to the EU and they reject them as not being workable.  She would struggle to get further concessions through parliament because of opposition from JRM and his boys.  At that point all we are left with is leave with no deal or scrap Brexit.  Whichever option is taken will mean the end of the Tory reign.  A general election and a probable open door for Labour.  Unless out the ashes of the Brexit disaster a new party is born!

[brewsterbudgen]

The Brexiteers will fight tooth and nail against having a second referendum.  Is it because they don't believe that people would vote leave the next time?  Anyway we been here before so let's not have that debate again.
 
Lets instead look at a possible unfolding scenario.  May trots off to put her proposals to the EU and they reject them as not being workable.  She would struggle to get further concessions through parliament because of opposition from JRM and his boys.  At that point all we are left with is leave with no deal or scrap Brexit.  Whichever option is taken will mean the end of the Tory reign.  A general election and a probable open door for Labour.  Unless out the ashes of the Brexit disaster a new party is born!

I like that scenario.

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[Lokie]

I voted to leave, thats it just leave - easy (no deals, no 2nd referendum the people voted leave is pretty simple to work that out evything else is just BS)

[alfieconn]

17 minutes ago, Lokie said:

I voted to leave, thats it just leave - easy (no deals, no 2nd referendum the people voted leave is pretty simple to work that out evything else is just BS)

Spot on but a lot of people don't seem able to grasp that concept, on the Ballot paper it said either In or Out of the EU, no mention of Soft Brexit no mention of compromise, now if the vote would have gone the way of the Remainer's would we be having an argument as to whether it should be a soft staying in or we should be reaching a compromise ?  

Edited July 17, 2018 by alfieconn

[Lokie]

3 minutes ago, alfieconn said:

Spot on but a lot of people don't seem able to grasp that concept, on the Ballot paper it said either In or Out of the EU, no mention of Soft Brexit no mention of compromise, now if the vote would have gone the way of the Remainer's would we be having an argument as to whether it should be a soft stayin or we should be reaching a compromise ?  

As I said, the vote was for leave - The rest is All BS!!!

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Not really into this democracy thingy are you?

Reminds me of the lot that can't accept the result of a democratic referendum.....

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I would think it is obvious even to the most blinkered Brexiters that we should remain. Let the people decide!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Done already. Did you miss it?