Four million becomes 2,300 baht! Bangkok condo residents go to police over missing fees

[webfact]

Four million becomes 2,300 baht! Bangkok condo residents go to police over missing fees

 

Picture: Daily News

 

A group of condominium residents have gone to Huay Khwang police to complain they have been robbed by the juristic person's office.

 

Sornram Phoomchai, 36, on behalf of thirty residents said that a fund that should have 4 million baht contained just 2,300 baht.

 

Residents have demanded where the money is but have just been fobbed off with spurious explanations, he said.

 

In addition people who have complained about the situation and stopped paying because they believe their maintenance fees are just being pocketed have found themselves cut off from electricity and water supplies.

 

While a 64 year old resident who arranged with the office to receive rental got nothing and was told his renters had gone abroad.

 

However, when he contacted the renters they said they were still paying the rent as agreed even though they were not in Thailand.

 

He wants to know where his money is too.

 

No annual meetings have been held with residents to explain finances that is a legal requirement of juristic person offices in Thailand, said the claimants.

 

Police promised to look into the matter.

 

As is customary in such cases the condo complex - described as prestigious - was not named in the Daily News report.

 

Source: Daily News

 

 

-- © Copyright Thai Visa News 2018-07-18

[Vacuum]

1 minute ago, webfact said:

Police promised to look into the matter.

Sounds comforting.

[ThaidDown]

When asked by reporters for a comment the 'Juristic persons Office' was quoted as saying

 

'Another 2,300 Baht, how did I miss that'

 

[bluesofa]

3 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

6 minutes ago, webfact said:

Police promised to look into the matter.

Sounds comforting.

Just about as comforting as the police looking into a hole that appeared in the road.

 

[keith101]

Need Big Joke to take this one on , he will get to the bottom of what's been happening .

[ezzra]

A juristic person manager can be by law, sued for anything that he/she responsible for including funds managements and the daily running of the property should there be misappropriation of funds and dereliction of duties....

[KittenKong]

This sort of thing happens far more often than most people imagine. Endless scams.

[KittenKong]

34 minutes ago, ezzra said:

A juristic person manager can be by law, sued for anything that he/she responsible for including funds managements and the daily running of the property should there be misappropriation of funds and dereliction of duties....

This is true.

But to do that one would have to explain to all co-owners what is going on, and get them to agree to legal action, and organise the legal action and pay for it. And all that will be need to be done by some concerned co-owner who isnt even getting paid for his time.

Also you are working against the very person who arranges meetings and is responsible for the dissemination of all information in the building: the JPM.

In a building where perhaps 75% or more of co-owners live elsewhere and never attend meetings, that may be quite hard to achieve and this is why this sort of fraud is so common here.

[sammieuk1]

Where in the world could you hear this sentence every day. Have demanded where the money is but have just been fobbed off with spurious explanations.

[overherebc]

32 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

This is true.

But to do that one would have to explain to all co-owners what is going on, and get them to agree to legal action, and organise the legal action and pay for it. And all that will be need to be done by some concerned co-owner who isnt even getting paid for his time.

Also you are working against the very person who arranges meetings and is responsible for the dissemination of all information in the building: the JPM.

In a building where perhaps 75% or more of co-owners live elsewhere and never attend meetings, that may be quite hard to achieve and this is why this sort of fraud is so common here.

Can I expand so common and add so easy .

[worgeordie]

I think a bit of creative accounting been going on.

regards worgeordie

[happy chappie]

its just Thai mentality,nothing more,nothing less.pure thievery fully embedded in what we call thainess.nice to see its not a farang losing out for once.

[colinneil]

Why are condo residents getting the police involved?

That will only cost them more money.

I think there is a reasonable explanation for this, the juristic person has lodged the missing money in his own account for safe keeping.

[KittenKong]

49 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Can I expand so common and add so easy .

It is indeed very easy to commit this sort of fraud here.

 

Everything I have ever seen of Thai condo accounting and office management has been utterly abysmal and audits here are a complete joke.

[NCC1701A]

I have a friend who is a very successful real estate investor in the USA. He owns 23 houses there.

 

The only piece of property he regrets buying is his condo in Thailand. 

[overherebc]

4 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

It is indeed very easy to commit this sort of fraud here.

 

Everything I have ever seen of Thai condo accounting and office management has been utterly abysmal and audits here are a complete joke.

Friend was asked to join the locals on at one of the meetings on Mooban maintenance and when receipts for work carried out our were asked for they were told 'not needed, all the work is done for cash'

Since then no-one has paid fees.

[trainman34014]

Lawless country full of thieving law breakers who 'look up' to those teaching them from the top how to 'get rich quick' from those below them.

 

It will take 100 years for this country to correct this kind of behaviour as it is ingrained in the culture.

[Emster23]

" As is customary in such cases the condo complex - described as prestigious - was not named in the Daily News report. "

 One more reason (as if more are needed!) to change awful defamation law here. Even if truth be told, can be sued and jailed if it damages reputation. Insane

[Xonax]

This happens all the time in Thailand.  Lawsuits are most often avoided, as the committee members responsible for checking the accounting, are afraid to be sued too.

[KittenKong]

28 minutes ago, Emster23 said:

One more reason (as if more are needed!) to change awful defamation law here. Even if truth be told, can be sued and jailed if it damages reputation. Insane

A suitable defence against the defamation laws is if the information transmitted is in the public interest.

 

It might be hard to show any "public interest" in giving a restaurant a bad review for serving cold chips, but it would not be too hard to show it if large amounts of co-owners own money has gone missing. Of course many lazy, stupid and dishonest people in Thailand regularly hide behind threats of defamation action, but that's just hot air.

[Cereal]

I don't know why anybody would buy a condo. Buying something that comes with obligatory payments which are used and dispensed beyond the purview of the giver just doesn't make sense. It's exactly why these things happen...everywhere.

[The Deerhunter]

6 hours ago, keith101 said:

Need Big Joke to take this one on , he will get to the bottom of what's been happening .

 Not really.   He is an Immigration Dept Police investigator only.

[Torrens54]

5 hours ago, colinneil said:

Why are condo residents getting the police involved?

That will only cost them more money.

I think there is a reasonable explanation for this, the juristic person has lodged the missing money in his own account for safe keeping.

Is that now known as the, “Malaysian” or “Najib” Sydrome ?

[johnc925]

I am familiar with the property business here and having seen many such questionable situations like this with JPMs... the Condominium Act is quite clear of requirements..  it calls even louder for the need for firm compliance regulation and penalties .. sadly, when "the uncles brother is 'connected' " conversation comes into things.. people scurry .. Another need; real estate regulation would help protections for owners, sellers, agents, bring in govt revenues, and bring greater confidence to safe property investment/ownership.

[KittenKong]

28 minutes ago, Cereal said:

I don't know why anybody would buy a condo. Buying something that comes with obligatory payments which are used and dispensed beyond the purview of the giver just doesn't make sense.

Well, to put it in perspective, many condo owners here pay somewhere between 10,000 and 30,000B yearly in maintenance fees. That covers all the common areas, the pool, the 24-hour security, the cleaning, the gardens etc. And it probably gives them some sort of technician/handyman on call every day for minor repairs inside their unit. Compare that with owning a house and it's not a bad deal.

Add to that the convenience of being able to just turn off your water and electricity at the mains, lock one door, and leave town - or even leave the country - for many weeks or months without having to give a second thought to anything at all. I could not happily do that in a house. In fact I could not happily leave a house for more than an hour or two here.

 

Also the use and misuse of common funds is, in fact, very much in public view if (and it's a big if) the committee does its job and ensures transparency and accuracy in the accounts.

 

The problems arise when you have a committee composed of lazy idiots, and a co-ownership that cant be bothered to get off its collective backside and attend meetings and study the financial reports and ask questions. Unfortunately that is all quite common here.

Edited July 18, 2018 by KittenKong

[johnc925]

4 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

I have a friend who is a very successful real estate investor in the USA. He owns 23 houses there.

 

The only piece of property he regrets buying is his condo in Thailand. 

that's disappointing .. we've had plenty of happy investors here..  goes to show who you work with can make a difference..  

[Happy Grumpy]

The ex-head guy in our old moo-baan (different person selected every year or two) had gotten the annual government payment of 500k baht for a new playground etc and spent the lot on renovating his house and garden.

 

Was voted out after 6 months. 

 

 

Garden looks nice though.

[dutchweller]

2 hours ago, Emster23 said:

" As is customary in such cases the condo complex - described as prestigious - was not named in the Daily News report. "

 One more reason (as if more are needed!) to change awful defamation law here. Even if truth be told, can be sued and jailed if it damages reputation. Insane

Not true

Section 330. Truth as a Defense

In case of defamation, if the person prosecuted for defamation can prove that the imputation made by him is true, he shall not be punished. But he shall not be allowed to prove if such imputation concerns personal matters, and such proof will not be benefit to the public.

 

 

So any decent lawyer would argue the knowledge of the dodgy business, Condo manager,  would be of benefit to public to avoid further scamming..

 

[dutchweller]

1 hour ago, KittenKong said:

A suitable defence against the defamation laws is if the information transmitted is in the public interest.

 

It might be hard to show any "public interest" in giving a restaurant a bad review for serving cold chips, but it would not be too hard to show it if large amounts of co-owners own money has gone missing. Of course many lazy, stupid and dishonest people in Thailand regularly hide behind threats of defamation action, but that's just hot air.

Absolutely correct

I am currently in the final stages of being sued for Defamation.
The law is quite clear and also most people who use it to threaten people with legal action have no Idea what it actually means..
 

I went from being sued for Millions...to now after a very brief court appearance and the judge scolding the claimant and his lawyer for "wasting the courts time"  and being threatened with penalty for such..
The whole thing has gone away and the claimant was forced to pay all my legal costs and out of cost expenses..
 

 

[catman20]

ive herd so much of this sort of thing going on in Thailand.

 i live in a village 73 houses we have a committee and we run the whole show our selves we employ a manager security guards and gardeners and collect fees and manage it.

 

we do not trust or want to spend over a million baht a year on a management company to run it for us. much safer and a everything transparent and cheaper fees for the owners without a management company.

Edited July 18, 2018 by catman20