Testosterone replacement in Bangkok

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, britishjohn said:

...When I asked the reasons for the lack of stock she claims there has been a problem with some of the chemicals used to make the product. Who knows...

 

 

She almost certainly would have no way of knowing why Bayer no longer had stock.

 

I find that Thais when asked what the reason for something is (a habit in foreigners they find very, very annoying) often just make up answers.

 

Never pays to ask why IMO unless it is to a person likely to have been directly involved in the decision making. Just generates false information.

[benever]

On 2/18/2019 at 2:02 AM, mokwit said:

OK done. I also feel that something just does not ring true. My guess was that Bayer HQ was discontinuing Testoviron/Provironum, which are de facto generics with many competitors, in order to focus on building the market for Nebido, where it has a unique/sole FDA approved product which likely has a higher margin. My suspicion was that the answer WRT future availability had an element of "Thainess" to it. Hopefully we will be appraised of the true situation.

 

Hey Mokwit, any reply from that follow-up email you sent to Bayer regarding Testoviron specifically? Otherwise it might be time to send a follow-up to the follow-up ????

[papersource]

Just bought some Bayer Testoviron Depot from the pharmacy on Sukumvit just before soi 4 (next to the larger pharmacy that is closing) and before the police box.

 

it is new packaging and from Pakistan but it is Bayer and says so on the ampules. Each box contains three 1ml ampules of 250mg each for 600 baht (200 baht per ampule) 

 

It is manufactured by Medipharm Pvt. Ltd Pakistan. I was not sure if it was legit or not until I googled Bayer Pakistan and searched under history and see that Bayer bought Medipharm from Schering in 2006. So Medipharm Pakistan is owned by Bayer. 

 

i will try to attach a photo below:

 

 

Edited March 4, 2019 by papersource

[dragons70]

6 hours ago, papersource said:

Just bought some Bayer Testoviron Depot from the pharmacy on Sukumvit just before soi 4 (next to the larger pharmacy that is closing) and before the police box.

 

it is new packaging and from Pakistan but it is Bayer and says so on the ampules. Each box contains three 1ml ampules of 250mg each for 600 baht (200 baht per ampule) 

 

It is manufactured by Medipharm Pvt. Ltd Pakistan. I was not sure if it was legit or not until I googled Bayer Pakistan and searched under history and see that Bayer bought Medipharm from Schering in 2006. So Medipharm Pakistan is owned by Bayer. 

 

i will try to attach a photo below:

 

 

Excellent info...Did you need a prescription?

[benever]

On 3/4/2019 at 6:44 AM, papersource said:

Just bought some Bayer Testoviron Depot from the pharmacy on Sukumvit just before soi 4 

 

 

Amps are yellow/brown? Is the liquid inside transparent like it used to be? Does it smell / look the same as the old Testoviron?

[papersource]

Yes, it is clear and works good too. It is totally legit Bayer product in my opinion. Just from a different factory. 

[A1Str8]

Nothing has become controlled. You can get it at most pharmacies. They wouldnt miss out on drug dealing. Its quite profitable.

[mokwit]

Testoviron Depot single ampoule 1ml/250mg Bt280 Rx Pharmacy just up from Nana Police box.

[britishjohn]

I also just bought some bayer testoviron in Nana, But it now is supplied in single ampoules and as Mokwit says it's 280 baht which is twice the price it was last year.

But I haven't seen any boxes containing 3 amps, neither are the amps brown. Mine says manufactured by Bayer, Germany

[Mister Fixit]

On 3/13/2019 at 6:42 PM, mokwit said:

Testoviron Depot single ampoule 1ml/250mg Bt280 Rx Pharmacy just up from Nana Police box.

That's a rip-off downtown price.  When I could get it, I was paying 165 baht per ampoule in Nonthaburi.

 

I'm thinking of switching to testosterone cypionate.   Anyone any thoughts on that?

 

[moe666]

On 7/21/2018 at 9:50 PM, dontoearth said:

     Even worse Khun Fred the US medical system has standardized on the gooey gel Androgel which has no effect on 20% of the patients which use it and doesn't raise test very much at all (from their website data).  And you can't get injectable test here in Chicago unless you are transitioning from FTM as I went the extra mile and saw two different doctors $175 each visit.  That was their news after checking with pharmacy at their major hub clinic. 

     It is available in Mexico and many people do a weekend in Puerto Vallarta.  The clinic there looked like Yoskarn clinic expensive prices keeping out the locals but a true bargain if you are USA citizen.

 

You can get a cream in the US from compounding pharmacy. When I lived in the US that is what I used. You will need to find a Dr. or other practioner who can prescribe for you

[mokwit]

2 hours ago, Mister Fixit said:

I'm thinking of switching to testosterone cypionate.   Anyone any thoughts on that?

Local brand Cypionate is Cypionax. Don't know cost - assume cheaper. Pharmacokinetics/half life pretty much the same as Enanthate

[KhunFred]

On 4/23/2019 at 6:14 PM, mokwit said:

Local brand Cypionate is Cypionax. Don't know cost - assume cheaper. Pharmacokinetics/half life pretty much the same as Enanthate

Cypionate is not sold in Thailand. Testoviron seems to be the only brand available. You can get it at any pharmacy with no prescription. About 3500 baht for an 18 month supply. Just take the vials down to any clinic and get an injection for 100 to 150 baht.

[tyler28]

I bought some Testosterone Cypionate (brand name: Cypionax) a couple of months back at a pharmacy on Sukhumvit road, between sois 10 and 12. I haven't needed to use it yet (still have a few vials of the German brand), and I haven't been in the pharmacy since, but I don't have any reason to believe that the product isn't what it purports to be.

[KhunFred]

13 hours ago, tyler28 said:

I bought some Testosterone Cypionate (brand name: Cypionax) a couple of months back at a pharmacy on Sukhumvit road, between sois 10 and 12. I haven't needed to use it yet (still have a few vials of the German brand), and I haven't been in the pharmacy since, but I don't have any reason to believe that the product isn't what it purports to be.

Interesting. A Swiss DOCTOR told me it was not available in Thailand. It could be that he was just trying to sell me on Testoviron.  Cypionate is what I used in the USA. Had to switch when I moved to Thailand. I suppose I need to check more pharmacies. Testosterone is not treated as a controlled substance here. Much easier to get than Alprazolam.

[tyler28]

I'll see if I can post a picture of the product later in the week (not at home now), but if you do a Google image search for "Cypionax" you will see what I am talking about. It seems to be made by a real Thai pharmaceutical company, not by any kind of "underground" lab. But again, I haven't used it yet, so I can't comment on its effectiveness from experience.

[sunnyboy2018]

On 7/21/2018 at 9:43 PM, dontoearth said:

   His site says testoviron is out of stock.  I had ordered in the past twice from him.   Very reliable and good service.  He still has Nebido but that is a time release formula that last 10 weeks in your body and is 1,000 mcg.  It needs to administered by a nurse or doctor and takes a few minutes and hurts like HELL.  I have taken it at Yoskran clinic when I am in bkk doing gym routine.  It requires a huge needle and a few minutes of time as it is very thick.  You will hurt the next day.  The yoskran clinic does the whole 9 yards full hormone panel and hcg cycle at the end etc.  It is very pricey but I am not the type to do my only injections at home and have not found a hospital or clinic that would do reliable hormone panel test.

I go to surecell clinic but had a full panel test first. Now an injection every three months, if necessary..as shown by single blood test. BTW The pattaya mail did an article on how to raise testosterone naturally and supplements like tonkat ali might be useful.

[Scott424]

On 5/7/2019 at 5:55 PM, tyler28 said:

I'll see if I can post a picture of the product later in the week (not at home now), but if you do a Google image search for "Cypionax" you will see what I am talking about. It seems to be made by a real Thai pharmaceutical company, not by any kind of "underground" lab. But again, I haven't used it yet, so I can't comment on its effectiveness from experience.

I switched to Cypionax when the Testoviron ran out, as to how it works, I had to adjust my dosage down to half a vial per week (which seems to be around the recommended level) as my T levels went over 1000.  I am in Hua Hin

[Hummin]

Left home without my meds! Found this in Isan, anyone have any experience? It is a bit emergency, and temperary for another 3-4 weeks

 

 

 

 

[faraday]

The Prop is good, although 25mg. Used it when I couldn't get any Enanthate - which a very helpful guy gave me assistance in procuring.

[Hummin]

Thanks

 

I will do Sub Q injections, but not sure how much? 

[WaveHunter]

FYI, Rotexmedica Enanthate (from Germany and same efficacy as Bayer) is now back in stock in Pattaya.  My pharmacist expects Bayer to become available very shortly again too, so it appears the "drought" is over ????

 

[WaveHunter]

What Testosterone replacement really achieves:

I saw a post in another thread in which the writer described the mechanisms of testosterone on the human body in an ignorant manner that was not at all science-based.  It was incredibly uninformed and misleading, and worse yet, he tried to fool readers by sounding like he was a science-based authority on the topic.  I find these kind of posts really irritating.

 

Anyway, it occurs to me that some people on TRT probably do not really understand how testosterone works and that their interest is only based on the fantastical claims that are promoted by the pharmaceutical industry and owners of TRT clinics, so some clarification might be helpful. 

 

I will preface this by saying that this is my opinion only, but it is based on a lot of reading, mostly from peer-reviewed scientific journals (not YouTube & health Guru blogs).  I am not a credentialed authority though, so this is just MY view, but I think it is a very well informed one.  Naturally you should do your own research and decide for yourself.  My only point in posting this is to counter the BS that is out there on this topic.

 

IMHO there is really only one benefit I can see to TRT and that is to help prevent age-induced muscle / strength loss.  All the other stuff about enhanced sex drive & virility, improved mood, etc is highly debatable at best.  Maintaining or improving lean body mass can lead to these things indirectly I guess, but the only scientifically verifiable direct effect on the human body has to do improving muscle mass and strength for the typical TRT user.

 

The truth is, the precise mechanisms of how testosterone works are still a source of debate among leading scientists who are researching this, but the basic physiological response to T is more or less agreed on. 

 

So, when you take testosterone, your body breaks the drug down into molecules that can pass into your cells. There, the testosterone molecules bind to structures called androgen receptors. These androgen receptors are shaped very specifically to bind with the body’s natural testosterone. Synthetic T, however, can also bind with the receptors.

 

Once this synthetic T is in place, the androgen receptor is activated. This activation can change how metabolisms work.

 

Testosterone affects your normal metabolism in two basic ways, and together they result in greater muscle mass/strength or in the case of TRT, better maintanance of age-induced declining muscle mass/strength.

 

#1  Once those androgen receptors are activated, some cells increase their production of proteins, which your body uses to build more cells. This is the phase of the metabolic cycle known as anabolism, where small molecules build up into more complex ones and energy is stored. Anabolism is also when your body builds up muscles. During anabolism, the cells in your skeletal muscles, or the powerful muscles attached to your bones, begin to replicate and grow.

 

#2  Not all activated androgen receptors cause this reaction, however.  Some inhibit hormones called glucocorticoids, another type of steroid. Inhibiting glucocorticoids speeds up the breakdown of complex molecules like proteins into smaller units like energy-giving amino acids. The entire breakdown process is called catabolism, and it’s the other half of this metabolic cycle.

 

By inhibiting glucocorticoids, supplemental testosterone (TRT) shorten the catabolic phase of metabolism. For people who do resistance training to stay fit, that means your muscles spend less time recovering between workouts, and you can do more with less rest. Age-induced muscle wasting and strength decline are thus reduced, or can even be reversed, depending on dosage and level of physical activity.

 

So, in a nutshell that is basically what's occurring.  There's nothing magical about it, and to infer that anything more is happening seems unjustified from a scientific standpoint.

 

That's my opinion, anyway.

 

 

Edited May 21, 2019 by WaveHunter

[KhunFred]

On 5/21/2019 at 2:51 PM, WaveHunter said:

What Testosterone replacement really achieves:

I saw a post in another thread in which the writer described the mechanisms of testosterone on the human body in an ignorant manner that was not at all science-based.  It was incredibly uninformed and misleading, and worse yet, he tried to fool readers by sounding like he was a science-based authority on the topic.  I find these kind of posts really irritating.

 

Anyway, it occurs to me that some people on TRT probably do not really understand how testosterone works and that their interest is only based on the fantastical claims that are promoted by the pharmaceutical industry and owners of TRT clinics, so some clarification might be helpful. 

 

I will preface this by saying that this is my opinion only, but it is based on a lot of reading, mostly from peer-reviewed scientific journals (not YouTube & health Guru blogs).  I am not a credentialed authority though, so this is just MY view, but I think it is a very well informed one.  Naturally you should do your own research and decide for yourself.  My only point in posting this is to counter the BS that is out there on this topic.

 

IMHO there is really only one benefit I can see to TRT and that is to help prevent age-induced muscle / strength loss.  All the other stuff about enhanced sex drive & virility, improved mood, etc is highly debatable at best.  Maintaining or improving lean body mass can lead to these things indirectly I guess, but the only scientifically verifiable direct effect on the human body has to do improving muscle mass and strength for the typical TRT user.

 

The truth is, the precise mechanisms of how testosterone works are still a source of debate among leading scientists who are researching this, but the basic physiological response to T is more or less agreed on. 

 

So, when you take testosterone, your body breaks the drug down into molecules that can pass into your cells. There, the testosterone molecules bind to structures called androgen receptors. These androgen receptors are shaped very specifically to bind with the body’s natural testosterone. Synthetic T, however, can also bind with the receptors.

 

Once this synthetic T is in place, the androgen receptor is activated. This activation can change how metabolisms work.

 

Testosterone affects your normal metabolism in two basic ways, and together they result in greater muscle mass/strength or in the case of TRT, better maintanance of age-induced declining muscle mass/strength.

 

#1  Once those androgen receptors are activated, some cells increase their production of proteins, which your body uses to build more cells. This is the phase of the metabolic cycle known as anabolism, where small molecules build up into more complex ones and energy is stored. Anabolism is also when your body builds up muscles. During anabolism, the cells in your skeletal muscles, or the powerful muscles attached to your bones, begin to replicate and grow.

 

#2  Not all activated androgen receptors cause this reaction, however.  Some inhibit hormones called glucocorticoids, another type of steroid. Inhibiting glucocorticoids speeds up the breakdown of complex molecules like proteins into smaller units like energy-giving amino acids. The entire breakdown process is called catabolism, and it’s the other half of this metabolic cycle.

 

By inhibiting glucocorticoids, supplemental testosterone (TRT) shorten the catabolic phase of metabolism. For people who do resistance training to stay fit, that means your muscles spend less time recovering between workouts, and you can do more with less rest. Age-induced muscle wasting and strength decline are thus reduced, or can even be reversed, depending on dosage and level of physical activity.

 

So, in a nutshell that is basically what's occurring.  There's nothing magical about it, and to infer that anything more is happening seems unjustified from a scientific standpoint.

 

That's my opinion, anyway.

 

 

All I know about testosterone replacement therapy, is that following radiation treatments for prostate cancer. I had no sex drive and no ability to get erections. Injections of testosterone restored the function within two weeks. When I arrived in Thailand, I consulted a Swiss doctor, who specialized in this sort of treatment and he told me my levels were too high.   (LOL) He suggested I get injections of testoviron on a monthly basis, rather than every three weeks as my American doctor suggested. I get vials from my pharmacy for about 3500 hundred baht for an 18 month supply. I take the vials down to a clinic to get injections for 100 baht. Much cheaper here than in the United States. They were billing my insurance company about 300 dollars each month for those injections. He told me that cypionate was not available in Thailand. Glad to know he was wrong.

[KhunFred]

On 4/23/2019 at 4:11 PM, moe666 said:

You can get a cream in the US from compounding pharmacy. When I lived in the US that is what I used. You will need to find a Dr. or other practioner who can prescribe for you

I DID use the gel, initially and it worked.  The injections are far more effective. In the USA, there are still many doctors who believe that those with a history of prostate cancer should not use testosterone. I had two different urologists in the same building with completely opposite stances on TRT treatments. The first urologist I consulted would not prescribe TRT for me. I asked my primary physician to find me one who would. He found a guy one floor below the first one who was basically running a "T-mill". He was older than the first guy and was a complete contrarian to the research done in the fifties.  Dr. Abraham Morgentaler has written a book on the old wives tales which pass for research on this subject. TRT treatments pose no risk for prostate cancer survivors. The fallout from the faulty research from the middle of the 20th century, continues to haunt the medical establishment.

[faraday]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4650486/

 

Page 36:

 

"We are unaware of any large controlled study demonstrating that T therapy is associated with increased PCa-related risks. The absence of such a study does not guarantee safety, but is worth considering when faced with such a strong prohibition."

 

 

[Hummin]

On 5/19/2019 at 6:51 PM, Hummin said:

Left home without my meds! Found this in Isan, anyone have any experience? It is a bit emergency, and temperary for another 3-4 weeks

 

 

 

 

This was the energy booster. 23 pills, and 5 of those propionate subQ injections, made my days. I had a blast, and blood test shows good T, more red blood cells, and bigger blood cells? Anyone hear about that before? 

 

Anyway, it was to good, and to fun to continue, so now I get my Nebido shot in two weeks, and a prescription to take medicine to europe as well. 

 

Those Methandrostenolone was dynamite in combo with propionate. I have tried Dianabol short time before with deca, and never ever experienced this kick I got now. 

[Destiny1990]

My T level is still on the low side of the acceptable range and sone doctors say take T while other doctors say don't take T.

I was always thinking why is it low in the first place?

also my estrogen are low.

While i don't drink or smoke then sleep good and eat kinda healthy.

I have done 4-5 bloodtest but only in the last blood test in Europe  i decided also to check vitamin D..

And guess what it came out very low 17,4...

So now before doing any T i will bring up my D vitamin level with 25,000 a week for 2 months.

yes i do avoid the sun but still always get some sun on my legs and arms however still low D while i eT fish lots..

i now also think my low D caused my low T and it also my low D that cause my weight gain.

i think bring my D level to normal might bring T level up by 50% and give normal weight.

So why these endocrinologist do not check D levels First?

None of them checked my D level.

 

 

 

[JimmyTheMook]

54 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

My T level is still on the low side of the acceptable range and sone doctors say take T while other doctors say don't take T.

I was always thinking why is it low in the first place?

also my estrogen are low.

While i don't drink or smoke then sleep good and eat kinda healthy.

I have done 4-5 bloodtest but only in the last blood test in Europe  i decided also to check vitamin D..

And guess what it came out very low 17,4...

So now before doing any T i will bring up my D vitamin level with 25,000 a week for 2 months.

yes i do avoid the sun but still always get some sun on my legs and arms however still low D while i eT fish lots..

i now also think my low D caused my low T and it also my low D that cause my weight gain.

i think bring my D level to normal might bring T level up by 50% and give normal weight.

So why these endocrinologist do not check D levels First?

None of them checked my D level.

 

 

 

 

You can also try taking a zinc tab - cheap and helps men naturally produce test.

 

 

[Destiny1990]

25 minutes ago, JimmyTheMook said:

 

You can also try taking a zinc tab - cheap and helps men naturally produce test.

 

 

I have no idea about my zinc level but i know my Vit D level is unhealthy low therefore i will reset that first.

I just wondering that lot of others here started with TRT without checking Vit D level first.