Illegal PET in CONDO, what can condo management do against a CONDO OWNER ?

[watcharacters]

3 hours ago, stud858 said:

And whoever doesn't like cats are evil. 

 

 

 

Now Now Now.

 

Be nice.   Some  people are allergic  to cats.              

[blackcab]

1 hour ago, cyberfarang said:

Having run 2 management companies for several years, as for keeping pets it depends on the clauses of the lease. If the lease states no pets, then it`s up to the management company to enforce that rule. If not mentioned in the lease then there is nothing the management company can legally do about it, unless the animal becomes a nuisance, such as a dog barking for long periods, attacking people or cats and dogs crapping in the communal areas or the condo in question become a health risk to other residents.

 

If legally imposing a fine there has to be a time limit for the fine to be paid. If the resident ignores the warnings and fails to pay the fine, the management company can push for an eviction via the courts that can take up to 4 years using the system in Thailand. Cutting off essential services or denying a resident access to common facilities without first getting the approval of a court, could be classified as harassment  and taking the law into their own hands.

 

Whatever, a condo is not a suitable environment to keep dogs or cats. 

 

The OP's partner is not a lessee. They are the freehold owner of the unit. As such they cannot be evicted.

 

Denying an owner access to the common facilities does not need the approval of the Court, and if done correctly it is not harassment or taking the law into their own hands.

 

This is because Section 18/1 of the Condominium Act states:

 

"...A joint owner with an amount in arrears under Section 18 from six months and upwards shall pay surcharge at the rate not exceeding twenty percents (20%) per year and may be suspended from receiving common services or using common property as set forth under the By-laws including the non-existence of the right to vote in the General Meeting..."

[Rustapha]

3 hours ago, sammieuk1 said:

How high is the condo could be made to look like feline suicide the first nine times. 

 

They always land on their feet, !!

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, cyberfarang said:

The management company must give consent for exchange of contracts and before contracts can be exchanged, the seller must be up to date with maintenance fees and free from any disputes. I`ve not known anyone who has purchased a condo without first reading the lease and what`s involved in the maintenance fees. Agreeing to the terms of the lease in part of the contract, you must have signed something agreeing to this. If not there has to be something seriously wrong with the deal.

I wonder if you are talking about private property management companies rather then the building management (ie the juristic person)? In my condo the building management has absolutely no say in any sale/purchase apart from the legal requirement of issuing a debt-free certificate, without which the Land Office will not do the transfer anyway.

 

There is no legal requirement to read or agree to building rules when buying a condo, although the act of buying that condo does mean that the rules apply to you. You cant avoid that and ignorance is no defence. It's just as if you are joining a club. I certainly never signed any rules, but I know they apply to me regardless.

 

There is no lease at all when buying a condo, unless perhaps you are talking about buying a condo leasehold, which seems to be common practice in Phuket but very rare elsewhere. In Pattaya I've never actually come across a single leasehold condo, though I did see one in Bangkok once and I know that there are some others. When buying a condo lease you arent actually buying the condo at all, of course.

[KittenKong]

3 hours ago, scorecard said:

The AGM came up and the old management company was unanimously removed on the spot. Maybe 2 weeks later the committee (many new members) appointed a new management company who got serious to enforce many building rules (some covered by in-house rules, some covered by Thai law: 

no animals, no gas bottles, a printing factory in the penthouse closed down, machinery all moved out, and more.

Gas bottles in condos. Crikey!

 

Just goes to show how completely useless some Thai management companies can be.

[Monkeyrobot]

Keeping pussy is always expensive. 

[stud858]

1 hour ago, blackcab said:

 

The OP's partner is not a lessee. They are the freehold owner of the unit. As such they cannot be evicted.

 

Denying an owner access to the common facilities does not need the approval of the Court, and if done correctly it is not harassment or taking the law into their own hands.

 

This is because Section 18/1 of the Condominium Act states:

 

"...A joint owner with an amount in arrears under Section 18 from six months and upwards shall pay surcharge at the rate not exceeding twenty percents (20%) per year and may be suspended from receiving common services or using common property as set forth under the By-laws including the non-existence of the right to vote in the General Meeting..."

Yes, I love this clause, but it is never used.  Stopping coowner from using common property would include common property water pipes and electrical wiring but there are many under the impression that water and electricity can't be cut.  The law clearly states it can. I'd even go as far as saying being able to walk up stairs or use the lift to get to their room is using common facilities. The security guard had every right to not let them use these facilities.  But not for cat ownership. Only unpaid. 

[cyberfarang]

47 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

I wonder if you are talking about private property management companies rather then the building management (ie the juristic person)? In my condo the building management has absolutely no say in any sale/purchase apart from the legal requirement of issuing a debt-free certificate, without which the Land Office will not do the transfer anyway.

 

There is no legal requirement to read or agree to building rules when buying a condo, although the act of buying that condo does mean that the rules apply to you. You cant avoid that and ignorance is no defence. It's just as if you are joining a club. I certainly never signed any rules, but I know they apply to me regardless.

 

There is no lease at all when buying a condo, unless perhaps you are talking about buying a condo leasehold, which seems to be common practice in Phuket but very rare elsewhere. In Pattaya I've never actually come across a single leasehold condo, though I did see one in Bangkok once and I know that there are some others. When buying a condo lease you arent actually buying the condo at all, of course.

Yes, I was assuming the OP condo is a leasehold with a lease. So I`m not sure which relates to the OP condo.

[sirocco]

Enjoying its status as owner
to override the rules of the house is not at all fun for this woman.
Being owner does not give her the right to do what she wants.
A little respect for the tenants should be advised by her boyfriend.

[scorecard]

56 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

I wonder if you are talking about private property management companies rather then the building management (ie the juristic person)? In my condo the building management has absolutely no say in any sale/purchase apart from the legal requirement of issuing a debt-free certificate, without which the Land Office will not do the transfer anyway.

 

There is no legal requirement to read or agree to building rules when buying a condo, although the act of buying that condo does mean that the rules apply to you. You cant avoid that and ignorance is no defence. It's just as if you are joining a club. I certainly never signed any rules, but I know they apply to me regardless.

 

There is no lease at all when buying a condo, unless perhaps you are talking about buying a condo leasehold, which seems to be common practice in Phuket but very rare elsewhere. In Pattaya I've never actually come across a single leasehold condo, though I did see one in Bangkok once and I know that there are some others. When buying a condo lease you arent actually buying the condo at all, of course.

 

People read contracts. I'm not so sure about that, I'm aware of two occasions when relatives came to look at the condo their relative had bought.

 

Same story both times, someone asks 'what is the monthly maintenance fee?'

 

Buyer says 'what do you mean?'

 

Turns out the buyer didn't know they had to pay monthly maintenance fees therefor didn't know how many Baht per month. 

 

 

[sirocco]

If it is a new condo, it is necessary to create an internal regulation with all the present or represented owners. (office with president, secretary, treasurer, elected members)
If it's an old condo, the house rules exist.
A document of the regulation is given to the future owner, for info, before the final signature.
But unfortunately, the laws in Thailand are good but they are followed in a troubled way, very troubled.

[Suradit69]

3 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

Sorry, but that`s not possible.

 

The management company must give consent for exchange of contracts and before contracts can be exchanged, the seller must be up to date with maintenance fees and free from any disputes. I`ve not known anyone who has purchased a condo without first reading the lease and what`s involved in the maintenance fees. Agreeing to the terms of the lease in part of the contract, you must have signed something agreeing to this. If not there has to be something seriously wrong with the deal.

Quote

Sorry, but that`s not possible.

No need to feel sorry. Maybe it's a miracle, because there it is.

 

The "deal was over 20 years ago, I have the chanote which passed scrutiny from a lawyer for an unrelated reason, the old lady lives across the hall from me and is on the condo board, there is no management company ( our manager and all those employed aside from security are individually hired/fired directly by our board).

 

The deal was consummated when I was in the country for a few days. The old lady had the condo gutted and refitted very nicely while I was back in farang land.  

 

Quote

I`ve not known anyone who has purchased a condo without first reading the lease and what`s involved in the maintenance fees.

It's not a lease.

 

The maintenance fees and how they are assessed have been changed several times over the years by vote at co-owners' meetings, so what they were at the time of purchase is no longer applicable anyway.

 

At no time did I have any interaction with anyone from management or the board at the time of purchase.

 

I've not known anyone who owns a condo with whom I've ever discussed what they've read or signed and I can't imagine interrogating anyone about such a thing.

 

Do people you know yawn a lot when your're around?

 

 

 

[balo]

Never leave your cat alone inside the condo, or it will make noise.

[Ripvanwinkle]

Buy a house for it.

[goegoe]

21 hours ago, KittenKong said:

The rule is there because the majority of co-owners wanted it. As such there can be nothing stupid about it.

 

Your GF should have been aware of the building rules before buying in the building. She has chosen to ignore those rules and as far as I can see she has very little to complain about.

 

Depending on what the buildings rules say, management could impose a fine for ignoring the rules but I doubt that it would be considered legal to cut off the water supply, unless she also refused to pay the fine. Services billed by third parties (notably electricity and ADSL) cannot be cut off by the condo management.

 

I would have thought that a fine would be enough to make most people toe the line.

 

A fine ? What is the right of a private organization to "fine" anyone ?!

 

And what if the fine is not paid after I tell the condo manager what I would do to him if I would meet him in a dark alley ?

 

 

[goegoe]

21 hours ago, stud858 said:

You might find that the management have never ratified these rules and submitted them to the land office. In which case the condo Act does not have a ruling on pets and you have every right to keep your pet in your room. Go and check the rules and regulation document at the land office for your condo. 

 

Thank you so much !!! I Didn't know that rules have to be registered at land office.

So I just need to go there to get the rules document ? It will be only in Thai ?

Thanks again !

 

 

[goegoe]

9 hours ago, stud858 said:

I'm not sure that a Jp can ask for fines to pay other than those overdue stated in condo Act.

I was told by a Jp in one case before a judge that a coowner was told to pay his fees within two years or his condo will be sold by judge,  but that the overdue fine was not enforced.  

Anything can happen in Thailand following or against the law, but I wouldn't be paying unless it was proven there was a direct expense to the condo by my action such as damage was done to curtains by the cat otherwise it's just profiteering by the Jp. But I guess who is toughest wins in the end. 

 

Exactly ! I do not believe that a juristic person can find any condo owner.

 

 

[goegoe]

6 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

Having run 2 management companies for several years, as for keeping pets it depends on the clauses of the lease. If the lease states no pets, then it`s up to the management company to enforce that rule. If not mentioned in the lease then there is nothing the management company can legally do about it, unless the animal becomes a nuisance, such as a dog barking for long periods, attacking people or cats and dogs crapping in the communal areas or the condo in question become a health risk to other residents.

 

If legally imposing a fine there has to be a time limit for the fine to be paid. If the resident ignores the warnings and fails to pay the fine, the management company can push for an eviction via the courts that can take up to 4 years using the system in Thailand. Cutting off essential services or denying a resident access to common facilities without first getting the approval of a court, could be classified as harassment  and taking the law into their own hands.

 

Whatever, a condo is not a suitable environment to keep dogs or cats. 

 

What lease ? She is owner.

 

So you are saying that there is clearly nothing that they can do ? Good !

 

 

[goegoe]

5 hours ago, jippytum said:

In our condo a fine is charged . It is not a stupid rule  and it was in force before your girlfriend occupied the unit.A court injunction is required to remove the pet or your girlfriend from the condo.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

She will be removed in your dreams, yes maybe ! Because she is owner and has no intention to move anywhere !

 

 

[Wake Up]

8 hours ago, Vacuum said:

How can a cat annoy neighbors? A dog, yes for sure, but a cat.

Some are allergic to cats. Some have a cat phobia. Some hate cats. That is why it says no pets instead of no dogs. Do the right thing OPs girlfriend and take the cat away from the condo.  Respect your neighbors and the rules. 

[cyberfarang]

16 minutes ago, goegoe said:

 

What lease ? She is owner.

 

So you are saying that there is clearly nothing that they can do ? Good !

 

 

No I`m not. The condo board still sets the rules. I would never purchase a condo without first reading the terms of the lease, if there is a lease or the rules laid down by the condo board. One way or another the cat will either have to go or the owner will need to fight this out in a civil court.

[KittenKong]

2 hours ago, goegoe said:

 

Thank you so much !!! I Didn't know that rules have to be registered at land office.

So I just need to go there to get the rules document ? It will be only in Thai ?

Thanks again !

Do not assume that the Land Office will have the building rules or that they will be able to give them to you even if they have them.

 

To see the rules you should ask at the front office. In a decent building one would expect them to be in Thai and English, though the English translation may be poor or incorrect. The Thai version always take precedence.

[KittenKong]

2 hours ago, goegoe said:

A fine ? What is the right of a private organization to "fine" anyone ?!

 

And what if the fine is not paid after I tell the condo manager what I would do to him if I would meet him in a dark alley ?

You apparently do not understand what a condominium is. It is not a private organisation, it is a co-ownership. Or a club or company if you like.

 

Co-owners decide by majority vote at a general meeting how they want their building to be run and what rules they want to apply. This could relate to anything that can affect other co-owners, such as whether people can put laundry on their balcony, or have pets, or have to take showers before using the pool. All co-owners have the opportunity of contributing to these decisions and all have a proportional vote according to the initial book value of their unit.

 

They may also decide to employ a management company or building manager to ensure that things are done properly, and in all cases they will appoint a Juristic Person Manager who is also responsible for the good running of the building. So all these people work for the co-owners.

 

The committee (which is synonymous with a board of directors), with the authority of co-owners, has to the power to impose rules and also to fine people for breaking those rules. Non-payment of fines could eventually result in legal action.

There are also some rules and fines imposed by the Condo Act.

 

The bottom line is that if you dont like the rules in your building then you should either try to get them changed at a general meeting or you should move out. When you disobey the rules you are disobeying the wishes of the majority of the co-owners.

[The Theory]

On 7/18/2018 at 10:05 PM, goegoe said:

respect the stupid pet rule ?

Does not matter if it is paid off or not !! “Respect” the stupid rule. 

That stupid rule is there because “majority of owners” want it to be there.

[jenny2017]

8 hours ago, Lucky mike said:

What difference "fully paid" means I don't know ! She buy condo knowing she can't have pets ?  So did everyone else common sense should prevail, what happens if the people next door want to keep a monkey, that be ok ?  

Only if it's an experienced trunk monkey.

 

   

 

 

 

[blackcab]

Troll posts and a reply have been removed.

[Just Weird]

On ‎7‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 11:54 PM, KittenKong said:

The rule is there because the majority of co-owners wanted it. As such there can be nothing stupid about it.

 

Your GF should have been aware of the building rules before buying in the building. She has chosen to ignore those rules and as far as I can see she has very little to complain about.

 

Depending on what the buildings rules say, management could impose a fine for ignoring the rules but I doubt that it would be considered legal to cut off the water supply, unless she also refused to pay the fine. Services billed by third parties (notably electricity and ADSL) cannot be cut off by the condo management.

 

I would have thought that a fine would be enough to make most people toe the line.

How on earth do you think that the condo management can legally impose a fine and expect it to be paid?  That's a court's job as a punishment for a criminal conviction, not a layman's in a juristic body because someone broke a rule!

[MyFriend You]

• Its good you ask this question on this forum, doesn't mater what we think, ou will get no support on your position here -  
• Stupid Rule???   It's in the Condo Association rules, our's says specifically  "No Pets whatsoever - 2000 baht fine per day for having a pet in your condo"  No Exceptions.
• Your GF should have read the rules before she brought the animal there

[MyFriend You]

12 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

Quote: "The rule is there because the majority of co-owners wanted it. As such there can be nothing stupid about it."

 

Agree, in my old condo in Bkk there was a rule of no pets from day 1, never enforced and the subject os lots of angry discussion at the AGM every year.

 

The problem was smell in the corridors, and into the condo rooms, dogs and cats let loose in the corridors and the dogs frightening children etc and angry dog & cat owners who scolded other people for unlocking the security doors and for allowed pets to go into the lift and go downstairs. And more.

 

The rubbish room on pretty much every floor had overpowering animal animal shxx smells., and litter smells.

 

The AGM came up and the old management company was unanimously removed on the spot. Maybe 2 weeks later the committee (many new members) appointed a new management company who got serious to enforce many building rules (some covered by in-house rules, some covered by Thai law: 

no animals, no gas bottles, a printing factory in the penthouse closed down, machinery all moved out, and more. 

"dogs frightening children"  My rule is a dog frightens me or my child - it dies.  No Mercy.

[inThailand]

Isn't this post about three pussies? The op who wants to support his gf even though she's breaking the rules and feels she's more important than the other owners. And the cat which must go.