Pro-junta coalition will form next government, says Suthep

[baboon]

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

Would hate to see Prayut  PM for life, what a scary thought. But this is not something that the current constitution allows, he would have to be voted in all the time.. ( i think that is what they mean for life). Otherwise they are suggesting establishment of democracy completely. 

As though the Powers That Be have given a toss about their own constitution so far, unless when convenient...

[robblok]

5 minutes ago, baboon said:

As though the Powers That Be have given a toss about their own constitution so far, unless when convenient...

That is true.. but appointing someone as PM is the same as ending democracy. I am sure that would ruffle a lot of feathers. Do you really think they would go that far ?

[Grossman]

1 hour ago, Vacuum said:

So did Thaksin.....

Thaksin's BS doesn't make Suthep's, Prayut's or anybody else's BS any less BS. It still stinks all the same. The difference is, that these guys are allowed to toss their excrement around without any repercussions. If they can have a 500 people political gathering and openly brag about it, then any clearly anti-junta party (no matter how much full of smelly stuff they might be) should be able to do that too. But I guess everyone is aware of what would happen if (for example) PTP openly announced a political assembly of 500 people happening next Sunday.

 

If someone clogs the potty, doing an upper decker won't really help with that.

[baboon]

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

That is true.. but appointing someone as PM is the same as ending democracy. I am sure that would ruffle a lot of feathers. Do you really think they would go that far ?

Yes, quite frankly. The reactionaries are gambling very high stakes in a winner takes all match with the masses. So far they are winning, so why not dot the I's and cross the T's while they are at it?

 

Now I admit to being an ultra-cynic, but it is a cynicism which has served me well so far... 

[baboon]

2 minutes ago, Grossman said:

Thaksin's BS doesn't make Suthep's, Prayut's or anybody else's BS any less BS. It still stinks all the same. The difference is, that these guys are allowed to toss their excrement around without any repercussions. If they can have a 500 people political gathering and openly brag about it, then any clearly anti-junta party (no matter how much full of smelly stuff they might be) should be able to do that too. But I guess everyone is aware of what would happen if (for example) PTP openly announced a political assembly of 500 people happening next Sunday.

 

If someone clogs the potty, doing an upper decker won't really help with that.

Amen. Great post.

[robblok]

19 minutes ago, baboon said:

Yes, quite frankly. The reactionaries are gambling very high stakes in a winner takes all match with the masses. So far they are winning, so why not dot the I's and cross the T's while they are at it?

 

Now I admit to being an ultra-cynic, but it is a cynicism which has served me well so far... 

To be honest i doubt it, because they are trying to placate the foreign countries with having some sort of democracy. That is what they are working towards, a PM for life would certainly destroy that image. Why bother then with elections at all. 

 

Just my two cents here. 

[Grossman]

14 minutes ago, robblok said:

That is true.. but appointing someone as PM is the same as ending democracy. I am sure that would ruffle a lot of feathers. Do you really think they would go that far ?

They ended democracy a long time ago already (if it ever really even existed).

 

Besides, they can pull off a lot of nasty stuff simply by making it look like "everyone wants it". They've done it before (a certain referendum comes to mind) and they will do it again. And again. And again. The way things are, I don't think this has anything to do with democracy, it's all about making something utterly wrong look right (with money or by means of intimidation, you pick) so that certain "people" can keep on doing the wrong with a big smile on their faces and just claim it's what everyone wanted (including to any foreign nation who dares to know better and question the situation). Who knows, once Prayut becomes the PM (after magically getting the support of 99% of the people based on votes) declares out of the blue through some of his pile of "independent" agencies that there is a new amendment to the laws that further elections are no longer needed in the future because the country has reached the peak of happiness and any changes would only make it worse. I for one, would not be surprised even if that happened.

 

[robblok]

Just now, Grossman said:

They ended democracy a long time ago already (if it ever really even existed).

 

Besides, they can pull off a lot of nasty stuff simply by making it look like "everyone wants it". They've done it before (a certain referendum comes to mind) and they will do it again. And again. And again. The way things are, I don't think this has anything to do with democracy, it's all about making something utterly wrong look right (with money or by means of intimidation, you pick) so that certain "people" can keep on doing the wrong with a big smile on their faces and just claim it's what everyone wanted (including to any foreign nation who dares to know better and question the situation). Who knows, once Prayut becomes the PM (after magically getting the support of 99% of the people based on votes) declares out of the blue through some of his pile of "independent" agencies that there is a new amendment to the laws that further elections are no longer needed in the future because the country has reached the peak of happiness and any changes would only make it worse. I for one, would not be surprised even if that happened.

 

It never really existed.. too few checks and balances whoever was in power (junta / PTP / Dems) always did as they pleased and stonewalled investigations. But it looked like democracy.

 

My point was more they are trying to placate the foreign countries (because of trade and money is a good motivator). I doubt the foreign countries would be fooled. I think they know this too and that is why they would not try it.

[jonclark]

7 minutes ago, robblok said:

To be honest i doubt it, because they are trying to placate the foreign countries with having some sort of democracy. That is what they are working towards, a PM for life would certainly destroy that image. Why bother then with elections at all. 

 

Just my two cents here. 

I would like to think that you are correct here and that the image of democracy in the eyes of the world would guide the governmet.

 

With the exception of the EU. I do not think ASEAN countries, BRIC countries or the USA would actually kick up a stink if democracy was 'dumbed down' in thailand so long trading conditions remained favourable.

[monkfish]

It will be interesting to see how the generals will cope without absolute power even now they struggle with criticism. I assume PM will take a back seat role and let politicians do the talking. We will see. Will protests be allowed after elections?

[robblok]

13 minutes ago, monkfish said:

It will be interesting to see how the generals will cope without absolute power even now they struggle with criticism. I assume PM will take a back seat role and let politicians do the talking. We will see. Will protests be allowed after elections?

Yes Prayut really is not politician material he really can't handle criticism its almost funny to see him react. Almost.. because it shows how he is not suited for the job. 

[TKDfella]

Wow, PM for life...all hail Juntias Caesar, Ha!

[candide]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

Would hate to see Prayut  PM for life, what a scary thought. But this is not something that the current constitution allows, he would have to be voted in all the time.. ( i think that is what they mean for life). Otherwise they are suggesting establishment of democracy completely. 

Well, for life is probably too excessive, but at least for two elections. As for the constitution,the mechanism has been already exposed. In case he is not elected as outsider PM thanks to the rigged constitution, he is able in nearly any case (unless the dems ally with the PTP) to block anyone else from being elected PM, and create a constitutional crisis while he is still in power. Guess what will happen in this case!

Edited July 30, 2018 by candide

[Jonmarleesco]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

If the government showed good performance, Prayut could even become the permanent PM for the rest of his life, Pirom said.

Good God! Seriously? Democracy, Thai style.

[candide]

1 hour ago, monkfish said:

It will be interesting to see how the generals will cope without absolute power even now they struggle with criticism. I assume PM will take a back seat role and let politicians do the talking. We will see. Will protests be allowed after elections?

The junta introduced a new law in 2015 to restrict or prevent protests. This law is validated as others by the new constitution. 

And they surely did not make this law to let a PTP-led  government apply it against yellow protesters.

https://www.ifex.org/thailand/2015/08/19/law_public_assembly/

[robblok]

13 minutes ago, candide said:

The junta introduced a new law in 2015 to restrict or prevent protests. This law is validated as others by the new constitution. 

And they surely did not make this law to let a PTP-led  government apply it against yellow protesters.

https://www.ifex.org/thailand/2015/08/19/law_public_assembly/

They certainly did not.. but do you doubt for a moment that the PTP wont use this tool if they are in government and people start protesting against them ? 

 

Anyway the law looks nice, similar in point to what we have in the Netherlands where you have to ask permission to protest. That is IMHO a good thing as you inconvenience others with your protest and can cause damage to the economy of that area. In my country not all protests are allowed especially when there are safety issues, extreem right is not always allowed to protest. So in a way this law is not so strange. 

 

The only caveat, be it a big one is that it will probably be abused in Thailand by whoever is in power to suppress the opposition. The law makes sense, but I am sure it will be abused so maybe not such a good thing for Thailand.. but it makes sense in more developed countries. 

 

 

[candide]

9 minutes ago, robblok said:

They certainly did not.. but do you doubt for a moment that the PTP wont use this tool if they are in government and people start protesting against them ?

Of course! What I mean is that after noticing this law, as well as the computer crime law, it became obvious to me that they would not let PTP or another anti-yellow party govern.

[robblok]

8 minutes ago, candide said:

Of course! What I mean is that after noticing this law, as well as the computer crime law, it became obvious to me that they would not let PTP or another anti-yellow party govern.

Good point as the laws would be enforced selectively by the PTP too (just like the junta would). That is the disadvantage of having tough laws like this.. if your not in power it will be used against you. Would actually be funny if the PTP would get in power and these laws are used against the junta. Just like i found it funny how Thaksin his tactics were used against him.

 

Though to be honest I never like selective enforcement and too much repression. 

 

The whole problem in this country is that all laws are enforced selectively and whoever is in power stonewalls all investigations / court cases that are against them. As I said the Prawit with his watches and the Thaksin his passports and the ombudsman. Great examples of how governments stonewall, cover their own. Shows that both sides do it. 

[candide]

15 minutes ago, robblok said:

Good point as the laws would be enforced selectively by the PTP too (just like the junta would). That is the disadvantage of having tough laws like this.. if your not in power it will be used against you. Would actually be funny if the PTP would get in power and these laws are used against the junta. Just like i found it funny how Thaksin his tactics were used against him.

 

Though to be honest I never like selective enforcement and too much repression. 

 

The whole problem in this country is that all laws are enforced selectively and whoever is in power stonewalls all investigations / court cases that are against them. As I said the Prawit with his watches and the Thaksin his passports and the ombudsman. Great examples of how governments stonewall, cover their own. Shows that both sides do it. 

Again, I don't agree with you. The judiciary and semi-judiciary (independent agencies) don't depend on the government, but on who appoints them. And the appointment system is dominated by the yellow faction. The PTP and the Shins tried to stonewall, and have been sometimes successfull, but often got indicted and convicted, even while in power.

If Prawit had been an elected PTP minister, the yellow NACC surely would not have covered it up, and on the contrary would have expedited the case at high speed.

 

And don't misunderstand me, I am not saying one is good and the other is bad. It is not a matter of morals, as they are probably all crooks.

[AGareth2]

28 minutes ago, robblok said:

Great examples of how governments stonewall, cover their own. Shows that both sides do it. 

shame YL couldn't stall the abuse of power case

[robblok]

1 minute ago, candide said:

Again, I don't agree with you. The judiciary and semi-judiciary (independent agencies) don't depend on the government, but on who appoints them. And the appointment system is dominated by the yellow faction. The PTP and the Shins tried to stonewall, and have been sometimes successfull, but often got indicted and convicted, even while in power.

If Prawit had been an elected PTP minister, the yellow NACC surely would not have covered it up, and on the contrary would have expedited the case at high speed.

 

And don't misunderstand me, I am not saying one is good and the other is bad. It is not a matter of morals, as they are probably all crooks.

I have no problems with you.. you see things quite similar to me we only differ on some points. Like you said they are all crooks.

 

Yes if Prawit was a PTP minister they would probably have expedited it but the government could have stonewalled it.. or would certainly try. They all do that.

 

Your right the NACC and others are far more on the hand of the yellows, just look at Suthep.. that guy is as dirty as Thaksin but I doubt he has been convicted for anything. Its certainly not something I am happy about. I can honestly say that I dislike Suthep as much as Thaksin.

 

I think we agree that we want to see all corruption prosecuted.  

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

shame YL couldn't stall the abuse of power case

As was said by candide and agreed upon by me.. organisations like the NACC are protecting the yellow / army side far more. YL has stonewalled quite a few things but she could never be as good at it as the junta as they have the NACC on their side. Not a good thing IMHO i want them to go after everyone. 

 

I said that i consider the junta and PTP both evil, but maybe the PTP is the lesser evil and i might like it more if they win the election but only because they have less power to protect themselves and are checked more. 

[kannot]

11 hours ago, missoura said:

 

Thats a pretty depressing map

[mark131v]

10 hours ago, humbug said:

just constant diatribe from Junta,Democrats and other Democrats like this treasonous person who doesnt fool anyone by saying he is no longer a democrat. Democrat party always come to power with the help of the junta

Agreed, he has never been a democrat it is just a cruel fluke that his party was named as 'democrats' they bear absolutely zero democratic actions and their deeds are the polar opposite of democracy

 

 Suthep and the other hypocrites and liars wouldn't know democracy if it smacked them in the face....

[thaiguzzi]

Sickening. The guy makes me wanna puke whenever I see his face and he opens his mouth.

[pornprong]

8 hours ago, robblok said:

Your exaggerating, nowhere is it said its for life. 

 

Anyway IMHO its a fight between two evils, the Shins and the junta. I don't see any winners here. 

How many dictators do you know of who voluntarily stepped down?

[billd766]

5 hours ago, TKDfella said:

Wow, PM for life...all hail Juntias Caesar, Ha!

 

Watch out for Brutus aka Suthep.

[JAG]

17 minutes ago, billd766 said:

?

Watch out for Brutus aka Suthep.

That reminds me, I must watch " Carry on Cleo" again...

 

Ridiculous to the sublime, but which twin is the Toni????

[billd766]

Looking at the photo on the OP reminds me of a saying.

 

When you see the crocodile smiling he is thinking of food, and you may be his lunch.

[oldlakey]

15 hours ago, Justgrazing said:

How's he know that .. Ain't even been an election yet .. Been put off a few times now .. Saying stuff like that may lead others to think that something dodgy is or will be going on .. 

Why change a winning formula which is used by all