Process, after death.

[jimrod]

Morbid as this may sound, I need to find out the process and costs once a foreigner passes away in Thailand, of natural causes.

 

I have a friend who's health is deteriorating and he wants to ensure his wife has the provisions and knows the process to follow should he pass away.

TIA for anyone who can give me some info to pass on.

 

[allane]

Here is my understanding, following a preliminary enquiry to my own embassy: 

The hospital/local authority issues a Death Certificate. When the deceased is a foreigner, the relevant embassy is supposed to be notified. This is where an observant person can help; to ensure that this step gets done. Presumably the relevant embassy will offer logistical assistance such as notification of relatives abroad and transportation of remains, if that has been requested.

If a foreign will is involved, the observant person in Thailand should also notify the foreign law firm and executor, so make sure she has addresses,e-mail addresses and phone numbers. Also a law firm file number, to retrieve the original will. Presumably, these will require copies of the Death Certificate, translated into the relevant language.

 

[ubonjoe]

There is this pinned topic on the home country forum that has some info.

 

[poppysdad]

I am in the situation now of my English wife having just passed away in hospital, many things have been done for me by Thai friends along with organising the cremation. I am meeting one at the hospital later today who will assist me through the final document signings etc.

My wife has no personal assets here in Thailand nor back in the UK for that matter, here she has a joint bank account with me with a small sum in, the major amount being in my name as required by immigration as she piggybacked off me but our 90 day is due in the next few days so Q1 is do i need to notify Immigration of her passing away.

We have wills both back in the UK and here in Thailand both extremely simple, the uk one is being handled by family back there but our Thai wills simply state that on the death of one everything goes to the other, she has no assets whatsoever other than personal items like shoes and handbags etc, I don't even know if the law company we used is even still at the same address so Q2 is do I still have to go through the process of a will or would it be easier just to forget it.

I am assuming the British Embassy will be informed but I require no assistance from them unless there is something I'm not aware of needed but any help on the above would be gratefully appreciated.

[Kerryd]

Poppysdad:
By rights, you still need to probate the Will (in Thailand and the UK) to cover your butt.

When my dad died a few years ago, the law office he and I used said that I had to wait for 45 days before the will could be probated as there had to be time for other parties to come forward and contest the Will (i.e. other family members, creditors, etc). They won't just take your word that there won't be anyone contesting the Will.

You may be able to have the Will probated "in absentia", meaning you may not have to actually be present in court (you may have to give your attorney a "power of attorney" to act on your behalf).
 

You absolutely need to inform the British Embassy - yourself - as they need to cancel your wife's passport. Also, they can translate the Death Certificate and provide you with Certified True Copies (stamped by the Embassy) as well as an official letter authorizing you to dispose of the body. From what I recall, we couldn't even book a cremation service at a temple (in Pattaya) unless we had that letter first.

You will need the Certified copies of the Death Certificate as many places will require a copy (for example, the lawyers when they probate the Will and any government agencies back in the UK as well as any bank she may have had an account or RRSP at for example). If she was collecting a pension of any kind from "back home" you have to notify that organization so the payments can be halted (and they will probably require a Certified copy of the Death Certificate as well).
 

If you don't do that and they catch you, you could end up in a world of hurt, possibly including jail time (for fraudulently collecting payments from a dead person) in addition to having to pay back the money.
As well, in my case, I had to go back to Canada and have dad's government and union pensions stopped and then have the bank "reverse" the deposits from the time of his death to the last payment.
The Will in the UK would still have to be probated as well but again, you may be able to do it "in absentia". The firm that handled it for me in Canada collected all the documents (including the Will and the copies of the Death Certificate) and did the probate about 10 weeks later while I was back at work in Afghanistan.

 

It never occurred to me to notify Immigration (that I recall). I'm not sure if the Embassy does it. I'll see if I can find anything online.

 

You may want to check the UK Embassy website for information on what to do (or what needs to be done) when a UK citizen dies while outside the country. This link may help you:
https://www.gov.uk/after-a-death/death-abroad
 

[Kerryd]

19 hours ago, jimrod said:

Morbid as this may sound, I need to find out the process and costs once a foreigner passes away in Thailand, of natural causes.

I have a friend who's health is deteriorating and he wants to ensure his wife has the provisions and knows the process to follow should he pass away.
TIA for anyone who can give me some info to pass on.

It would be of benefit to everyone if your friend has a Will to make it clear that his wife is his sole heir. Otherwise any number of people could (theoretically) crop up and contest the inheritance. Also, the Will defines who the "Executor" will be (the Executor being the person authorized to make arrangements and payments from the deceased person's Estate). That person could be the wife/widow or another person entirely. 

If your friend dies in a hospital, that hospital will issue a Death Certificate and then the body would be sent to the morgue (for storage, no autopsy required if they already know how he died).
The Death Certificate would need to be registered at the local City Hall.
 

That Death Certificate and the person's passport would then need to be taken to his Embassy so the death can be recorded and the passport cancelled. I'm not sure if it works the same for every embassy, but you would (or should) get the Death Certificate translated and then have them provide you with how ever many Certified True copies of it that you may require (you as in either the Executor of the Will and/or the surviving spouse).
 

As I noted in the reply to poppysdad, the Embassy should also provide an official letter authorizing you to dispose of the remains. That letter should be required before any cremation ceremony can be arranged (although, this is Thailand so who knows - things can happen differently in different places maybe).

Generally, ceremonies can be from 1-3 days. This is from tradition where it could take days for family members to get from different parts of the country to the temple where the ceremony is taking place. Some people believe that a "3 day" ceremony earns them more "merit" but in some cases (such as mine) the temple wouldn't agree to it as dad had been on ice for 5 days already so we did the quick "1 day" ceremony followed by the "spreading of the ashes" the next morning (which was a little disturbing if it's the first time you've seen it done but wasn't complicated and didn't require any special paperwork or anything.)

45 days after the person has died, the Will can be probated in Court (in Thailand). Assuming no one comes forward to contest the Will, it is a pretty easy process. You should have a law firm to make the arrangements and provide a translator as the Judge will be asking questions in Thai.

I think it took all of 15 minutes in my case. We were called up by the judge, my lawyer stated the case, I had to take the stand and swear an oath, the judge asked me a couple of questions and that was it. She stamped/signed something and I was clear to close out dad's accounts (Certified copies of death certificate needed) as well as his other assets, little as there was.

As I was working overseas at the time, there was a large delay before I was able to return to Canada and do the probate on dad's Will there. Not sure if there is (or was) a mandatory "waiting period" but it took the law firm almost 10 weeks before they finally got it done. 
 

Again, as I mentioned to poppysdad, the Executor of the Will, will need to get in touch with the appropriate agencies in the home country to deal with matter such as pension payments and the like.  They will find out eventually that the person has died and they probably won't have a lot of compassion for anyone that continued to collect that person's pension cheques for months/years after he/she died.

 

And again, as I mentioned already, check the Embassy website (of whichever country your friend is from) as they should have topics already on there as to what needs to be done if one of their citizen's dies while overseas.

It can be an intimidating process and it doesn't help that it needs to be started within hours (literally) of someone dying. Things tend to be stressful enough as it is but in the end it isn't overly complicated, especially if you have someone that can speak Thai and translate for you. Makes things a lot quicker and easier naturally.
 

[allane]

To Kerry D.:  May I ask why the process needs to be started "within hours", and what happens if it isn't ?

[Ban Phe Dezza]

Hi I am an Aussie who has arranged a prepaid funeral with a local company The previous name Has been changed to A M A R 

Not sure if I am allowed to Put a contact in this Post.

Basically a prepaid Cremation is less than 45,000.00 Baht and they Handle the arrangements plus paper work to Embassy.

This has been discussed at length on T V  and researched by one of the Moderators I am sure others will add to this Post  

[Divyas]

Well for my knowledge, I have heard that the soul transports to new beings and changes lives afterlives.

While the subconscious mind remains the same and body burnt or engraved, I believe life after death is an uncommon phenomenon.

[Lacessit]

Good information on this thread. I'm thinking I should copy it to my son so he'll know what he has to do if I cark it here.

Given the relative percentages of time I spend in Thailand and Australia, the former is more likely.

[Suradit69]

On 7/31/2018 at 7:40 PM, allane said:

Presumably the relevant embassy will offer logistical assistance such as notification of relatives abroad and transportation of remains, if that has been requested.

The embassy of the deceased may have some general information available regarding  transportation of remains to the home country if that is actually wanted, but I wouldn't expect embassy staff to be involved in organizing transport of the body.  Aside from some exceptional situations, I wouldn't think making funeral arrangements would be part of their mandate.

 

As an example, the US embassy lists what they will do and explains the options for disposition of the body, but there is no suggestion they would offer to take on making such arrangements. 

 

In my case I spoke to a consular officer about the embassy not interfering in the posthumous proceedings in the event of my death. At their suggestion I included that provision in my Thai will ... that my Thai heir and executor be allowed to handle everything without interference from the embassy ...and the officer said they would honor my request included in a Thai will.

 

 

Quote

 

The U.S. Mission Thailand is ready to assist family and friends in the event of the death of a U.S. citizen in Thailand. The American Citizen Services unit can:

• Confirm the death, identity, and U.S. citizenship of the deceased.
• Notify the next-of-kin.
• Provide information about the disposition of the remains and personal effects of the deceased.
• Prepare documents for the disposition of the remains in accordance with instructions from the next-of-kin or legal representative.
• Provide guidance on forwarding funds to cover costs.
• Serve as provisional conservator of the estate if there is no legal representative in the country.
• Send the Consular Report of Death Abroad to the next-of-kin or legal representative for use in settling estate matters in the United States.

 

•  

and

 

Quote

 

When a U.S. Citizen dies in Thailand, the body is usually preserved until instructions are received from the next-of-kin regarding the disposition of remains. There are normally two options:

• Cremation in Thailand and interment or scattering of ashes in Thailand, the United States or other location
• Embalming in Thailand and air shipment to the United States or other location for burial

Please note that embalming and mortuary services in Thailand may not meet U.S. standards. Families are advised to consult with a funeral director in the United States about the advisability of viewing remains and conducting an open-casket funeral.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 1, 2018 by Suradit69

[poppysdad]

To help with some of the above I can answer to a point some of my own and others questions.

 

I live in Hua Hin so can only speak from that point of view and the General Government Hospital where my wife died notified the British embassy on my behalf, they spoke to me by telephone to basically confirm i was next of kin (they had been sent all our passport info and copy of marriage certificate by the hospital) and apart from being very polite and courteous informed that a bereavement package would be emailed to me and the information that the hospital required (i have no idea what it was) would be faxed to them within 30 minutes. Once the hospital had this info they were able to complete all the paperwork to enable me to go to the Tessaban tomorrow to collect the Death Certificates. I then have to go back to the hospital with some of the already completed paperwork which will release the body to the temple of my choice to then proceed with the cremation arrangements. 

I asked the Embassy person whom i was speaking to if i needed to visit the embassy for any purpose at all and the answer was no and once my wife has been cremated to cut the corners from her passport to invalidate it. All quite simple but I would advise you need a Thai speaker almost every inch of the way to make everything so much easier and I found the Thai people I know have been absolute godsends these past few days in helping me.

[poppysdad]

Re Ban Phe Dezza post on cremation costs, I was quoted around 55000b for the cremation by a funeral company but my Thai friends told me that was very expensive and with their help it will be around 20-25000b simply by dealing direct with the temple directly which they will be helping me with tomorrow.

[Ban Phe Dezza]

On 8/1/2018 at 8:57 PM, poppysdad said:

Re Ban Phe Dezza post on cremation costs, I was quoted around 55000b for the cremation by a funeral company but my Thai friends told me that was very expensive and with their help it will be around 20-25000b simply by dealing direct with the temple directly which they will be helping me with tomorrow.

Greetings while perhaps not Relevant be aware that even the Poorest of Thais spent up to and plus 200,000.00 Baht on a funeral, recently my Partners Sister Passed away and I paid out 20,000.00  Baht to help with costs and that was for less than 48 hours after she passed away. 3 years ago I decided to prepay my own cremation as i did not want to be a burden on my Family

 

[dddave]

" even the Poorest of Thais spent up to and plus 200,000.00 Baht on a funeral. "

 

That figure of B200,000 usually includes several days of providing food for pretty much the entire village and various visiting family members. It generally also includes paying for the services and transportation of Nine prestigious monks.

Such elaborate funerals are not usual for departed farangs. 

My former GF's mother paid into a death insurance policy for years so her children would not be burdened with her funeral expenses.  When she died, the insurance company paid her B200,000 death benefit within 2 days of her death and she had the send-off she wanted.

[unblocktheplanet]

I think the most important part is not the govt BS at all but making sure one's spouse gets the assets. In Thailand, I've solved this by making all accounts joint, and the house & land are in her name anyway. Important to remember, one must make a will for every venue where your assets reside. In Canada, this is by province so I've created a legal will in BC.