Red shirts warn Prayut to avoid repeat of 1992 ‘Black May’

[TKDfella]

Violence will only perpetuate more violence and in this instance the military are likely to be the victors...and of course, will give the junta more reasons to continue. I don't have an answer but imho the only way to go is for the people to show their disapproval of the junta by peaceful means. But as I said on a similar thread, that won't happen.

[Baerboxer]

4 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Seem straightforward enough. Military have killed citizens and they are now being forewarned. What more reasoning you need? 

 

Forewarned by a terrorist street thug group who have murdered critics and opponents of the Shin crime family. And some innocent bystanders and children which they warmly publicly applauded.

 

No one supports the killing of people, by the military or private rent a thug groups. But somehow you always seem to want to ignore the reality about the Shins and their private army.

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

That "army" was only in response to those that now control the country with the military and directly in response to the yellow shirt army that was used to destabilise and create anarchy with the single aim of unseating an elected government because they knew they could not win fairly at the ballot box.

 

You reap what you sow.

 

And the Red Shirts and UDD were Thaksin's attempt to create is own private army to try and challenge the Yellow shirts and military. He already had the police support for the kleptocracy.

 

More reminiscent of Germany in the 1930's with the street battles than the Western democracies many posters like to compare to.

[Eric Loh]

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Forewarned by a terrorist street thug group who have murdered critics and opponents of the Shin crime family. And some innocent bystanders and children which they warmly publicly applauded.

 

No one supports the killing of people, by the military or private rent a thug groups. But somehow you always seem to want to ignore the reality about the Shins and their private army.

Still regurgitating the same shit BB. Topic have been dealt with in great details. No UDD leaders support killing of the children and no one have yet convicted. There will be no yellows or reds if there were No military interference in politics. 

[scorecard]

Just now, Eric Loh said:

Still regurgitating the same shit BB. Topic have been dealt with in great details. No UDD leaders support killing of the children and no one have yet convicted. There will be no yellows or reds if there were No military interference in politics. 

 

Yawn...

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, ramrod711 said:

Does anyone ever wonder what would have happened if Samak hadn't been removed for having a cooking show? We'll never know, but it couldn't have been much worse if they had left well enough alone.

 

He wasn't removed for having the show; he was removed for lying about the payments. 

 

 

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, Eric Loh said:

Still regurgitating the same shit BB. Topic have been dealt with in great details. No UDD leaders support killing of the children and no one have yet convicted. There will be no yellows or reds if there were No military interference in politics. 

 

Apart from your offensive opening, contrary to forum rules, you are again resorting to lying. TVF covered the cheering and applause by red shirts and PTP members at a rally, including those on the platform, when it was announced to the audience that some "opponents" had been killed, including children. IIRC the TVF article said some cheered the murder of the children with the comment "they won't grow up to oppose us". Yingluck was criticized for not condemning these killings quickly enough which was also reported by TVF.

 

Your grasp of the truth is becoming very similar to PTP's.

[bannork]

9 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

He wasn't removed for having the show; he was removed for lying about the payments. 

 

 

He could have been reinstated too but Thaksin turned to his more compliant brother-in-law, Somchai Wongsawat. Samak was abandoned by thaksin.

[bannork]

5 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

"...Not so now..."

Those are some interesting words... And, I'll leave it at that.

 

I tend to agree that Thailand is looking at a similar situation to 1992. The question that I have pondering on this Saturday afternoon is whether it would be better to have a quick, sharp event like 1992 or a slow, stifling, wet blanket thrown over the country? The early nineties saw horrible violence played out on the street, but relatively speaking, it was over and done with quite quickly. On the other hand, when one peers over the border to Burma, you can see the effects of the stultification still prevalent 50+ years later.

 

Which would be worse?

 

Hmm....

 

Any takers?

 

It's not the same as 1992. Then, the middle class were opposed to Suchinda. The uprising was even called the mobile phone revolution if I remember rightly, people agreed to meet their friends by phone at Sanam Luang after work to oppose Suchinda taking power.

But now a large percentage of the middle class distrust and hate Thaksin and his troops the red shirts. they talk of democracy but they all seem to follow the paymaster. No red shirt dare oppose the billionnaire. 

So the middle class may despair of the junta but see the natural opposition, Pheua Thai  and the red shirts as no alternative either.

Time for the Future Forward party and progressive members of both the Democrat and Pheua Thai parties to seize the moment and join forces. The FF party can only hope for 10% of the votes at best. They need like minded individuals in both the major parties to join forces with them. A network of democratically minded politicians, experienced with voter bases, combined with new dynamic minds representing the future of Thailand, must present the people of Thailand with a promising future.

 

[the guest]

I wouldn't argue with somebody that has the backing of all the military if I was you, there is only 1 outcome.

[janclaes47]

7 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Suchinda broke his promise and accepted the post of prime minster following a post-coup election in 1992. That led to street protests that were later crushed by the military, resulting in bloodshed in what has become known as the “Black May” or “Bloody May” incident. There were 52 military-confirmed deaths, many disappearances and allegations of torture.

Mr P smells the coffee already, and that is why he want to delay the elections as long as possible, because he thinks staying on as UNELECTED pm will avoid the issue.

 

How wrong he can be.

 

There was another thread the other day where he said that if a fight broke out elections would be delayed again. He only can pray to Buddha that no fight will start before the election, or after,  because it will be ugly.

[candide]

56 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

TVF covered the cheering and applause by red shirts and PTP members at a rally, including those on the platform, when it was announced to the audience that some "opponents" had been killed, including children

What Dab Deang said was disgusting but the way you present it suggests that all UDD and PT P members present on stage approved his statement (and also that it was known that children had been killed), which is not true.

Before Dab Daeng had the opportunity to expose more of his pervasive mindset, he was interrupted by the chairwoman of United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship Tida Thavornseth, who quickly said the red-shirt movement did not cherish violence.

Her interruption upset Dab Daeng, who was eventually collared and taken off the the stage by former Pheu Thai MP Worachai Hema of Samut Prakan.

On 7/30/2018 at 4:16 PM, ivor bigun said:

 

 

56 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

the TVF article said some cheered the murder of the children with the comment "they won't grow up to oppose us". 

No trace on the Internet of this quote, and as the fact that children had been killed was not known at the time of Dab Daeng statement, it is unlikely that someone could have said  that.

 

As I said you are right to find Dab Daeng statement disgusting, as well as those who cheered it, but your account is biased and even fake news for the second part

 

(Sorry about ivor begun appearing as empty quote, it has nothing to do with this topic, it's just a mishandling of the quote system)

Edited August 4, 2018 by candide

[Media1]

7 hours ago, seajae said:

red shirts threatening violence and death again, nothing new, they are a terrorist group at best and use  violence as their tool of choice. The sooner these groups(reds & yellows) are removed the better, they are there purely to cause trouble, they are not there for the betterment of Thailand at all.

They have more than a valid point 4v years is not acceptable either is a military government period. Treason is a serious crime

[Media1]

7 hours ago, seajae said:

red shirts threatening violence and death again, nothing new, they are a terrorist group at best and use  violence as their tool of choice. The sooner these groups(reds & yellows) are removed the better, they are there purely to cause trouble, they are not there for the betterment of Thailand at all.

I here there looking for volunteer tank washers at military circle. 

[chama]

7 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

and before we get into this 'most Thais want this - most Thais want that' debate IMO most Thais just want to provide for their families and give their children a better life than what they had when they grew up. TVF members get more worked up on these political issues in a day than the average Thai does in a lifetime, unless it's impacting their ability to feed, clothe and educate their children.

Very true, but they can easily get impacted by the violence being threatened. The entire political scene is set up for a catastrophic episode unless a clearly free and open election is held that puts a leader into position that is a clear choice by the Thai people. Even with out the Red Shirt terrorist group (which Prayut loves because they give him a reason to delay the election indefinitely) the country is simmering because of the length of time the government has been hijacked. The Red Shirts could be the match that sets the whole thing ablaze. Time for Prayut to show his leadership ability by holding an election and honoring the results.

[3NUMBAS]

meanwhile the arch villain is hiding somewhere in the monkhood to escape justice

[geriatrickid]

10 hours ago, seajae said:

red shirts threatening violence and death again, nothing new, they are a terrorist group at best and use  violence as their tool of choice. The sooner these groups(reds & yellows) are removed the better, they are there purely to cause trouble, they are not there for the betterment of Thailand at all.

Not threatening violence. Asking that it be  avoided.

[Samui Bodoh]

10 hours ago, bannork said:

It's not the same as 1992. Then, the middle class were opposed to Suchinda. The uprising was even called the mobile phone revolution if I remember rightly, people agreed to meet their friends by phone at Sanam Luang after work to oppose Suchinda taking power.

But now a large percentage of the middle class distrust and hate Thaksin and his troops the red shirts. they talk of democracy but they all seem to follow the paymaster. No red shirt dare oppose the billionnaire. 

So the middle class may despair of the junta but see the natural opposition, Pheua Thai  and the red shirts as no alternative either.

Time for the Future Forward party and progressive members of both the Democrat and Pheua Thai parties to seize the moment and join forces. The FF party can only hope for 10% of the votes at best. They need like minded individuals in both the major parties to join forces with them. A network of democratically minded politicians, experienced with voter bases, combined with new dynamic minds representing the future of Thailand, must present the people of Thailand with a promising future.

 

Interesting post. Two comments come to mind...

 

More and more, I am becoming convinced that the biggest problem in Thai politics isn't the greens, yellows or reds, it is the sense of entitlement and arrogance of Bangkok's upper/middle classes. Seriously, when I read the papers, I often get the sense that they believe that they live in the country of Bangkok and Surroundings rather than the country of Thailand. It is true that the political scene in the capital of any country tends to be more important than the political scene outside the capital, especially in countries which are immature or wanna-be democracies. There is an old adage in Poly-Sci circles; The Countryside Proposes and the Capital Disposes. These days, it seems like the middle-class of Bangkok feel that they deserve a veto over anything the country does, and that is a recipe for discord, disagreements and disunity.

 

The second comment that I would make regards the last paragraph about the FF party and a new electoral coalition. It sounds nice (honestly), but it is not realistic to expect a complete re-alignment of the voting electorate in a few months time. Perhaps, in line with my first paragraph, the Bangkok middle-class should swallow their arrogance and vote for whomever will lead Thailand to a more democratic system. I would like to see an informal alliance of all the 'democratic' parties offer a unified front against the military. Yes, it would still leave many, many problems to be worked out later, but until Thailand gets the military out of politics, there is little hope for any meaningful reform and progress for the people of Thailand.

 

I often read on this forum comments criticizing politics, politicians, and Thai politics (many times I am the one criticizing), but I think it is important to set realistic goals for Thai politics; they are not going to magically transform into a mature western democracy as much as we would all like to see that. I would simply say that I would like to see a (fairly!) elected, non-military government after the next election, and I would like to see that government hand over power at the end of its term to another (fairly!) elected government.

 

That's all.

 

And, I would point out, if it does not occur, then we are likely back to either 1992 or Burma, in some fashion or another.

 

Not a pretty thought...

 

[generealty]

seajae I think you did not read the article as it was the Army that killed the people

[ramrod711]

17 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

He wasn't removed for having the show; he was removed for lying about the payments. 

 

 

You may be right, I can't bother to check. The payments were minimal as I recall, maybe 2,000 or 3,ooo baht per month. The point was Samak was a crony of Thaksin but he was also a strong leader and less likely to play dead for Thaksin. I don't recall who was PM when Samak died but I think it was Thaksins brother in law, think about that for a minute.

[ramrod711]

14 hours ago, 3NUMBAS said:

meanwhile the arch villain is hiding somewhere in the monkhood to escape justice

I thought the arch villain was in Dubai to escape justice.

[lvr181]

1 hour ago, ramrod711 said:

I thought the arch villain was in Dubai to escape justice.

He is only one of the "arch villains" in the recent, sorry, history (since 1932) of the Kingdom. 

Edited August 5, 2018 by lvr181
Grammar correction

[Reigntax]

On 8/4/2018 at 5:34 PM, from the home of CC said:

round and round we go again, looking back in history I don't see this ever ending.

 

Not until the majority of people get off their <deleted> and to protect what is rightfully theirs. The right to elect a government by majority and to have the result respected and those who failure to respect the decision should be charged accordingly and face the maximum punishment.

[from the home of CC]

5 minutes ago, Reigntax said:

 

Not until the majority of people get off their <deleted> and to protect what is rightfully theirs. The right to elect a government by majority and to have the result respected and those who failure to respect the decision should be charged accordingly and face the maximum punishment.

The newest version of the 'government' will do everything in its power to prevent that from happening. I for one welcomed the extinguishing of the flames of violence that was threatening to burn the country down not too long ago. And the promises of tackling corruption justified an 'extended stay' at the time. Ultimately its proven to be a lot of face saving window dressing. The passing of the reigns of power back to the people may never truly happen again in my lifetime. At least not without a lot of people being hurt or killed.

[Media1]

Just now, from the home of CC said:

The newest version of the 'government' will do everything in its power to prevent that from happening. I for one welcomed the extinguishing of the flames of violence that was threatening to burn the country down not too long ago. And the promises of tackling corruption justified an 'extended stay' at the time. Ultimately its proven to be a lot of face saving window dressing. The passing of the reigns of power back to the people may never truly happen again in my lifetime. At least not without a lot of people being hurt or killed.

They will not survive a election not possible now. ALL there allies are exposed 

[unblocktheplanet]

On 8/3/2018 at 11:35 PM, seajae said:

red shirts threatening violence and death again, nothing new, they are a terrorist group at best and use  violence as their tool of choice. The sooner these groups(reds & yellows) are removed the better, they are there purely to cause trouble, they are not there for the betterment of Thailand at all.

When dissenters to the status quo of military rule are called terrorists, that's the very definition of a fascist state where everybody agrees...or else!

[seajae]

On 8/4/2018 at 2:18 PM, Eric Loh said:

So you think the 1976, 1992 and 2009 shootings and killings of citizens were for the betterment of Thailand. You have a sick sense of rationality. 

seems you are unable to understand what is written, I know you hate anyone that says anything about your beloved reds and try to belittle them but how did you deduce this reasoning, suggest you try reading what I did write very slowly

[Eric Loh]

10 minutes ago, seajae said:

seems you are unable to understand what is written, I know you hate anyone that says anything about your beloved reds and try to belittle them but how did you deduce this reasoning, suggest you try reading what I did write very slowly

Maybe you try to understand in this way. No doubt that the yellows and reds are trouble and problematic but the symptom of  dominating elites and the military who will do anything including shooting their own people is what you should be addressing. 

[chainarong]

There is every chance that History will repeat , Prayut attacked the revolution base,  Students and academics right from the begining, so he is well aware of Thai history , however that won't save him , the saddest of all is those lives lost in previous revolutions have been in vain.

[Horace]

OK without getting into the red shirts vs. yellow shirts debate (other than to highlight the inconvenient fact that the most ardent and shrill yellow shirts supporters now were the biggest and most lavish supporters of Thaskin when he first ran for PM),  you have to wonder if and how will this end?  Will Thais most meekly accept the status quo?  Will they support the Junta's PM?  Will they rebel and, if they do, what will that look like?

 

I have lived here for several decades, which certainly does not make my an expert, other giving me the ability to make the obvious observation that Thai politics are very unpredictable.  Everything seems fine and everyone seems to be willing to put up with all sorts of harassment and discrimination, until the aren't. 

 

And the change from complacency to riots in the streets happens quickly, much too quickly, for me to pretend that I can recognize the warning signs.  I can't, and I doubt the claims of those who claim they can.  

 

Remember Siam Bangkok and Issan really are two different places with essentially different languages and cultures, and the former does look down upon and exploit the latter.  Even within Siam Bangkok, Sakdina, which is is still alive, ensures that privileged elite lives off the labour of the many, and the many are very resentful.  Something will eventually give, but I can't don't when and how.  

 

 

Edited August 6, 2018 by Horace