I just finished a 48 hour intermittent fast (IF)

WaveHunter · February 25, 2019

23 minutes ago, cooked said:

I can't resist going off topic here.

After a year of taking blood pressure meds ("You must take these for the rest of your life") and proudly presenting my results to my MD, he then prescribed statins for me("You must take these for the rest of your life"), which I already knew were one of the biggest scams of the century (and bloody expensive). Back home I started reading. And I stopped (didn't start) my meds.

After 18 months of low carb diet (Keto): blood pressure still under 120. Glucose 'normal'. BMI 'normal'. waist /height ratio under 52%, 'normal' ... haven't had a blood test recently so I can't boast about those levels, the ratios HDL/Triglyc etc were OK last time I checked and there is no indication that high cholesterol levels lead to increased heart risk (75% of Americans having a first cardio-vascukar event have 'normal' cholestero; levels, or below).

I'm 71 and running 15 Km a week.

In my opinion a fast is much easier if you are in ketosis, or have the feeling that those excessive carbs you ate at 7/11 yesterday might be pushing you out of ketosis. I used to think that it was a choice of low carb diet, OR intermittent fasting, now I reckon they belong together.

Great post! I was in the same situation with regard to HBP and being pre-diabetic as well. Doctor insisted meds were the only option and it would be a life-long commitment. My reaction was the same as yours; I did my own reading for several weeks and decided that nutrition, not meds could address the problem...and it proved to be a great decision!

What was really remarkable to me is how fast my high blood pressure and pre-diabetic condition responded to proper nutrition. My key decision was to cut sugar and heavily processed foods from my diet; nothing really that radical, or difficult to do. Blood pressure responded literally in a matter of weeks, and on my next blood tests a few months later my A1C and other markers were in the normal range. I am still stunned to realize that poor nutrition could play such a powerful role in such serious health conditions.

My doctor was pleased, even surprised how well his prescribed meds caused this turnaround. When I told him I had not filled the prescriptions he was very annoyed with me! I couldn't believe his reaction. He was actually angry with me and told me he could no longer be my physician if I was unwilling to follow HIS advice! I was actually speechless. Of course that was OK with me because I had already decided I was no longer going to be his patient. I have since found a great GP who believes in proactive health and not just reaching for a prescription pad.

Hippocrates, who lived around 400 B.C. said “Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food.” Some advice is timeless! These days it's too bad more physicians don't embrace this sentiment.

Edited February 25, 2019 by WaveHunter

thedemon · February 26, 2019

17 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

Why fast, you ask? Well, there are actually some proven positive aspects of total fasting (no food, only water). I make a point of fasting for 72 hours once a month. Why? It promotes autophagy in a VERY powerful way (biological process by which cells recycle and renew their content).

I won't go into the explanation except to say this is not guru-speak stuff. It's based on 2016 Nobel prize winning research of Yoshinori Ohsumi. His findings are truly game changing in understanding how our bodies work from a metabolic standpoint, and how it relates to disease states such as cancer, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, and a host of other maladies. Google it. Honestly, It is really fascinating!

FYI, it takes at least 72 hours for fasting to have its' peak effect on autophagy, so 48 hours of fasting is just not long enough because the body must be in a ketogenic state for autophagy to really kick in. 72 hours is the "sweet spot".

By eating a carb restricted (e.g. keto) diet for a few days prior to fasting, I think it is possible to start the fast with your body already in a ketogenic state. At least that seems to be the case for me.

I did my first water fast about 5 months ago right after returning from 2 weeks of excessive eating and drinking while travelling. I managed 7 days but days 2, 3 & 4 were torture, I was so hungry. On a couple of subsequent fasts I have started the fast with a blood ketone level of about 1.0 and it has been much less painful even though the ketone levels still don't really ramp up until about day 4.

Whether that approach would enable autophagy to kick in at an earlier stage I have no idea but in any case, while I tend to believe in the concept, autophagy is pretty much intangible whereas hunger is not.

brokenbone · February 26, 2019

i have been doing one meal a day for the past 3 weeks and lost 15kg, i expect another 5 weeks to get down another 15kg,

at which point i will start eating breakfast again.

i'm so totally drained of energy so exercise is a non-starter

JaiLai · February 26, 2019

12 minutes ago, brokenbone said:

i have been doing one meal a day for the past 3 weeks and lost 15kg, i expect another 5 weeks to get down another 15kg,

at which point i will start eating breakfast again.

i'm so totally drained of energy so exercise is a non-starter

what weight were you?

robblok · February 26, 2019

2 hours ago, brokenbone said:

i have been doing one meal a day for the past 3 weeks and lost 15kg, i expect another 5 weeks to get down another 15kg,

at which point i will start eating breakfast again.

i'm so totally drained of energy so exercise is a non-starter

sounds to me that your not doing it right, if your so drained of energy then you must be really low in calories. You might be burning a lot of muscle too. Anyway your body your life IMHO a diet should not be so restrictive that you have no energy anymore.

WaveHunter · February 26, 2019

3 hours ago, brokenbone said:

i have been doing one meal a day for the past 3 weeks and lost 15kg, i expect another 5 weeks to get down another 15kg,

at which point i will start eating breakfast again.

i'm so totally drained of energy so exercise is a non-starter

I believe in the virtues of one-meal-a-day for a lot of reasons. One of the main reasons is that it allows your body to adapt to using stored body-fat more efficiently as a fuel source. It can take a while for this adaptation to take place.

Calorie restriction however is a slippery slope. It is common and normal to feel "drained" initially when you adopt a one-meal-a-day way of eating BUT If you are still feeling drained of energy after three weeks, you may be restricting calories too much, and unfortunately your metabolism may have slowed in response. Even more unfortunate, your weight loss probably includes more lean mass than advisable.

A better approach than simply restricting calories is to restrict carbohydrates while maintaining sufficient calories. Loosing body fat is more dependent on restricting carbs, especially sugars. There is a lot of controversy (and BS) out there about the virtues of low fat diets vs low carb diets, and all kinds of wacky diets touted by so-called health "gurus". It's really up to the individual to do their own research from reliable, science-based sources and then decide what is best for them.

My regular diet is one-meal-a-day but I am not calorie restricted at all. I eat mostly a plant-based diet, keeping sugar to an absolute minimum, and I avoid processed foods like the plague! Contrary to what many people think, plant-based is very satisfying and provides all the protein necessary (much less protein is required than many people think, even though the companies that promote protein shakes and supplements would like you to believe otherwise).

I am VERY active. I am into road cycling, riding about 12-15 hours per week with a lot of hill climbing (I live in Chiang Mai and ride up Doi Suthep at least 3 days a week). On rides I consume carbs when I feel the need (bananas, sports gels, smoothies), but no carbs at meal time. I also work out in the gym (free weights) a few days a week. What I've discovered is that far fewer carbs are necessary than you think, even for demanding physical activities, as long as calories are sufficient to meet your needs, and your body is adapted to using stored body fat as fuel more efficiently.

All I can really say is that it works for me. Before I adopted this lifestyle I was borderline obese with high blood pressure, and was pre-diabetic. My lifestyle was sedentary and I was addicted to junk food. I changed all of this several years ago and I was stunned how quickly my body reacted to proper nutrition and exercise. My lipid and other metabolic profiles are all in the normal range now and I feel good so that's all the evidence I need that this lifestyle works for me. ????

Edited February 26, 2019 by WaveHunter

jak2002003 · February 26, 2019

Reading through this thread some of the posters may have eating disorders!

There seems to be a pattern of binge eating and gaining weight, followed by starvation to get the weight off.

Fasting for long periods of time is HARMFUL to your health! You guys do so much research into the weigh loss aspect, but you are seriously harming you bodies in the long run. Its not a scientifically proven, detox, rapid fat burning, super energising, muscle increasing, healthy thing to be doing, sorry!

We need vitamins, minerals, fibre and essential amino acids in various amounts to maintain, repair and have our bodies function properly. You will have a deficiency of these if you are regularly fasting for long periods of time.

Fasting to detox your body is also a myth. Your body naturally detoxifies itself. If you are a healthy person your body is already 'detoxed'. Ketones, produced when fasting, as well as increased nitrogen products, puts a lot of strain on your body, and even lead to damaging you liver (the very thing that detoxes you body). To detox you body you need to regularly eat healthy food and have regular bowel movements.

Long fasts will force you body to go into starvation mode, and when you start eating again you will regain the weight you lost and perhaps even more, especially those people going back to their previous eating habits and diets of pizza and 'normal' food.

Fasting leads to slower metabolism and higher levels of cortisol.... which causes amino acids to leach form you muscles and puts the body into a high level of stress.

You are likely to get digestive problems, gastrointestinal problems when enzymes damage the digestive tract linings (with the absence of food), and this can even lead to ulcerations.

Bile is produced to digest food, and when no food is present this bile gets stored up in the gall bladder, where it will keep building up over time and can lead to the formation of gall stones!

When you fast you immunity goes down as most of the antibodies to fight infection are produced in the digestive tract, which now stops producing (up to 70 percent) of your antibodies.

Its not resting you body to go on a fast. Even second hormones and enzymes are working, energy is being used and stored, All this needs food for energy, Eating no food will put stress on your body, not give it a rest!

Edited February 26, 2019 by jak2002003

cooked · February 26, 2019

54 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

Reading through this thread some of the posters may have eating disorders!

There seems to be a pattern of binge eating and gaining weight, followed by starvation to get the weight off.

Fasting for long periods of time is HARMFUL to your health! You guys do so much research into the weigh loss aspect, but you are seriously harming you bodies in the long run. Its not a scientifically proven, detox, rapid fat burning, super energising, muscle increasing, healthy thing to be doing, sorry!

We need vitamins, minerals, fibre and essential amino acids in various amounts to maintain, repair and have our bodies function properly. You will have a deficiency of these if you are regularly fasting for long periods of time.

Fasting to detox your body is also a myth. Your body naturally detoxifies itself. If you are a healthy person your body is already 'detoxed'. Ketones, produced when fasting, as well as increased nitrogen products, puts a lot of strain on your body, and even lead to damaging you liver (the very thing that detoxes you body). To detox you body you need to regularly eat healthy food and have regular bowel movements.

Long fasts will force you body to go into starvation mode, and when you start eating again you will regain the weight you lost and perhaps even more, especially those people going back to their previous eating habits and diets of pizza and 'normal' food.

Fasting leads to slower metabolism and higher levels of cortisol.... which causes amino acids to leach form you muscles and puts the body into a high level of stress.

You are likely to get digestive problems, gastrointestinal problems when enzymes damage the digestive tract linings (with the absence of food), and this can even lead to ulcerations.

Bile is produced to digest food, and when no food is present this bile gets stored up in the gall bladder, where it will keep building up over time and can lead to the formation of gall stones!

When you fast you immunity goes down as most of the antibodies to fight infection are produced in the digestive tract, which now stops producing (up to 70 percent) of your antibodies.

Its not resting you body to go on a fast. Even second hormones and enzymes are working, energy is being used and stored, All this needs food for energy, Eating no food will put stress on your body, not give it a rest!

... done much reading lately? I will admit that going on a fast for more than 48 hours needs careful preparation and possibly medical supervision (and where will you find that in TH).

Nearly all of what you write has been disproved In factual science based trials, which is more than I can say for the hypothesis that "fat clogs your arteries".

Let's go into the "regain weight after ceasing your fast". Well let's not, let's just assume that you don't know how keto works. Weight regain after a keto fast is much less than after a "normal" fast, and I don't think anybody talks seriously about "detox" any more as a motive for fasting, apart from a few gurus in California.

brokenbone · February 26, 2019

4 hours ago, JaiLai said:

what weight were you?

i was over 115, am 100 now and goal is 85 and stay there at any cost

JaiLai · February 26, 2019

i was over 115, am 100 now and goal is 85 and stay there at any cost

Good for you mate.

What’s your one meal consist of?

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WaveHunter · February 26, 2019

45 minutes ago, cooked said:

...and I don't think anybody talks seriously about "detox" any more as a motive for fasting, apart from a few gurus in California.

Actually, I consider "detox" one of the most important reasons to fast. In fact it is the ONLY reason I do a 72 hour fast monthly. Now hear me out before you jump all over me though.

When I refer to "detox" I am really referring to autophagy. Autophagy is a detox process your body naturally undergoes to clean out damaged cells and regenerate new ones. This is NOT guru-speak. The Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine for 2016 was awarded to Yoshinori Ohsumi for his discoveries of mechanisms for autophagy. His work proved that nutrient deprivation (fasting) is the key activator of autophagy. I won't go into the details; google it and discover the facts yourself.

It's important to understand that whether or not you fast, autophagy still occurs on a regular basis but at very low level of activity. Fasting greatly enhances it.

Now, as a weight loss strategy, I think absolute fasting (i.e.: water fasting) has merits as a means to jump-start a less radical long term weight loss program. Even long-term fasting of greater than 72 hours has merits for those who's morbid obesity has life-threatening implications such as those with advanced type-2 diabetes. For those simply trying to shed some pounds for reasons of vanity though, no "crash diet" is going to work in the long run. Lifestyle change is the only real answer to that.

Edited February 26, 2019 by WaveHunter

cooked · February 26, 2019

9 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Actually, I consider "detox" one of the most important reasons to fast. In fact it is the ONLY reason I do a 72 hour fast monthly. Now hear me out before you jump all over me though.

When I refer to "detox" I am really referring to autophagy. Autophagy is a detox process your body naturally undergoes to clean out damaged cells and regenerate new ones. This is NOT guru-speak. The Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine for 2016 was awarded to Yoshinori Ohsumi for his discoveries of mechanisms for autophagy. His work proved that nutrient deprivation (fasting) is the key activator of autophagy. I won't go into the details; google it and discover the facts yourself.

It's important to understand that whether or not you fast, autophagy still occurs on a regular basis but at very low level of activity. Fasting greatly enhances it.

Now, as a weight loss strategy, I think absolute fasting (i.e.: water fasting) has merits as a means to jump-start a less radical long term weight loss program. Even long-term fasting of greater than 72 hours has merits for those who's morbid obesity has life-threatening implications such as those with advanced type-2 diabetes. For those simply trying to shed some pounds for reasons of vanity though, no "crash diet" is going to work in the long run. Lifestyle change is the only real answer to that.

Unfortunately "detox" has been misused too often to be able to include it in a serious conversation, especially in one that has the better word "autophagy".

direction BANGKOK · February 26, 2019

On 8/8/2018 at 2:12 PM, tropo said:

Saying someone else knows nothing doesn't validate your own bs.

THere actually is genuinely a lot of data supporting this. I suppose you can say "that is mice, humans react differently". That is true, but I will say a couple of things to that.

First, it makes sense that our body, overall health and mind can benefit from fasting. What we all do is actually irregular. Shoving foof into our mouths until we are absolutely, 100% stuffed three times a day is highly, highly irregular. Fasting is not irregular. Fasting is normal when you consider our history and how our bodies have evolved and adapted. So, you could almost guess that a person waking up and eating three eggs with spinach, cheese, sausage, toast and coffee could do some pretty insanely irregular things to a himan body... when in our history were we able to have such a meal?!

But yeah, the data is backing this stuff up. There is evidence about this prolonging life, benefiting cognition, aiding digestion. Our bodies are not good at dealing with the irregularities we feed it on a daily basis, we just fail to realize it... we think stuffing our faces until oir stomachs birst three times a day is normal, while our ancestors probably had to forage for hours just to find a smidgen of sustenance.

poohy · February 26, 2019

Good luck to OP but Not wishing to be pedantic.

i had breakfast at 10.0am then dinner at 8.00pm now too me thats an intermittent fast (or at least as close to one as i want to be)

jak2002003 · February 26, 2019

1 hour ago, cooked said:

... done much reading lately? I will admit that going on a fast for more than 48 hours needs careful preparation and possibly medical supervision (and where will you find that in TH).

Nearly all of what you write has been disproved In factual science based trials, which is more than I can say for the hypothesis that "fat clogs your arteries".

Let's go into the "regain weight after ceasing your fast". Well let's not, let's just assume that you don't know how keto works. Weight regain after a keto fast is much less than after a "normal" fast, and I don't think anybody talks seriously about "detox" any more as a motive for fasting, apart from a few gurus in California.

You can do all the reading you want. You are clearly biased to this topic. You are correct that short fast will have no harmful effects, but many poster on here are saying they fast more than 48 hours, some saying a week! I am talking about these people.

Not true that all I have written has been disproven. Easy for you to say that.... give me the studies and references if you are so sure my points have been disproven.

How can you even attempts to say that we don't need a certain amount of amino acids, vitamins, minerals, fibre and other nutrients on a regular basis to maintain our bodies in a healthy state?

People on this very thread are talking about fasting for DETOX too and improved mental alertness, energy levels etc. So clearly people still believe this.

I am familiar with how Keto works. I am a biologist, and also studied food science / nutrition at college as part of my job. It is a fact that ketones can adversely affect the kidneys. You also have a higher chance of developing kidney stones. They overwork you kidneys due to increased urine acidity. This is science fact. So is the fact you can develop low blood pressure because you loose so many electrolytes and water too quickly.

I have not even mentioned about the keto 'flu'.

Where is your reference to your claim that weight gain after a keto fast is less than after a normal fast''? Did you get told that my the fitness fast diet plan guy on a You Tube Video, or read it on a news feed, perhaps googled it on a 'fasting is healthy for you' webpage?

At the end of the day, people saying how much weight they are loosing so quickly.... it's mostly WATER!!!

Quick fixes don't work in the long term. Eating healthy food as part of a balanced diet, moderate exercise every day, be active. That is the best and healthiest option for loosing weight and keeping it off long term.

cooked · February 26, 2019

10 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

You can do all the reading you want. You are clearly biased to this topic. You are correct that short fast will have no harmful effects, but many poster on here are saying they fast more than 48 hours, some saying a week! I am talking about these people.

Not true that all I have written has been disproven. Easy for you to say that.... give me the studies and references if you are so sure my points have been disproven.

How can you even attempts to say that we don't need a certain amount of amino acids, vitamins, minerals, fibre and other nutrients on a regular basis to maintain our bodies in a healthy state?

People on this very thread are talking about fasting for DETOX too and improved mental alertness, energy levels etc. So clearly people still believe this.

I am familiar with how Keto works. I am a biologist, and also studied food science / nutrition at college as part of my job. It is a fact that ketones can adversely affect the kidneys. You also have a higher chance of developing kidney stones. They overwork you kidneys due to increased urine acidity. This is science fact. So is the fact you can develop low blood pressure because you loose so many electrolytes and water too quickly.

I have not even mentioned about the keto 'flu'.

Where is your reference to your claim that weight gain after a keto fast is less than after a normal fast''? Did you get told that my the fitness fast diet plan guy on a You Tube Video, or read it on a news feed, perhaps googled it on a 'fasting is healthy for you' webpage?

At the end of the day, people saying how much weight they are loosing so quickly.... it's mostly WATER!!!

Quick fixes don't work in the long term. Eating healthy food as part of a balanced diet, moderate exercise every day, be active. That is the best and healthiest option for loosing weight and keeping it off long term.

Dear oh dear.

I haven't invented anything and I did go to the trouble of investigating this stuff for at least a year before I started defending Keto. Eating too many carbs is lethal. A part of the weight loss associated with fat loss is water, of course it is. This doesn't really matter, weight loss is weight loss and you can't tell me that the people losing 50 Kg are just losing 50 Kg of water or that that would be unhealthy. Here's a reference https://sci-fit.net/keto-flush/ which does talk about water loss in a scientific fashion.

This ISN'T a quick fix, and the results tend to remain, plenty of studies have shown that, especially as maintaining ketosis stifles hunger, which none of the other diets do, they nearly all fail, look around you. Keto Is about "Eating healthy food as part of a balanced diet, moderate exercise every day, be active." as you say, and carbs AREN'T healthy.

I am used to getting indignant posts from trained nutritionists and dieticians, they waffle on about missing nutrients (ketoists are well aware of these problems and counter them) as well as the problem with kidneys etc, which are minimal but often pushed forward as a major argument against Keto. Ref: https://perfectketo.com/ketosis-kidney/

JaiLai · February 26, 2019

Good luck to OP but Not wishing to be pedantic.
i had breakfast at 10.0am then dinner at 8.00pm now too me thats an intermittent fast (or at least as close to one as i want to be)

I had a cookie and cream chunky kit kat and M150 about 09:05 this morning - very yummy.

Then I went for a 7km run

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robblok · February 26, 2019

8 minutes ago, JaiLai said:

I had a cookie and cream chunky kit kat and M150 about 09:05 this morning - very yummy.

Then I went for a 7km run

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The sad thing is that you might not even have burned the Kit kat and the M150 on your run. Not commenting on your diet but on how meaningless (in general) exercise is for weight loss.

Though research has shown that people who exercise in general take better care of their food.

JaiLai · February 26, 2019

The sad thing is that you might not even have burned the Kit kat and the M150 on your run. Not commenting on your diet but on how meaningless (in general) exercise is for weight loss.

Though research has shown that people who exercise in general take better care of their food.

It’s not sad, the kit kat was lovely, really enjoyed it.

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WaveHunter · February 26, 2019

44 minutes ago, cooked said:

Dear oh dear.

I haven't invented anything and I did go to the trouble of investigating this stuff for at least a year before I started defending Keto. Eating too many carbs is lethal. A part of the weight loss associated with fat loss is water, of course it is. This doesn't really matter, weight loss is weight loss and you can't tell me that the people losing 50 Kg are just losing 50 Kg of water or that that would be unhealthy. Here's a reference https://sci-fit.net/keto-flush/ which does talk about water loss in a scientific fashion.

This ISN'T a quick fix, and the results tend to remain, plenty of studies have shown that, especially as maintaining ketosis stifles hunger, which none of the other diets do, they nearly all fail, look around you. Keto Is about "Eating healthy food as part of a balanced diet, moderate exercise every day, be active." as you say, and carbs AREN'T healthy.

I am used to getting indignant posts from trained nutritionists and dieticians, they waffle on about missing nutrients (ketoists are well aware of these problems and counter them) as well as the problem with kidneys etc, which are minimal but often pushed forward as a major argument against Keto. Ref: https://perfectketo.com/ketosis-kidney/

Some of the absolute worst nutritional advice I have ever been given has come from physicians and licensed nutritionists. That's not to say there are not some who are on the cutting edge of current research but my experience is that most of them are basing their advice on outdated and/or controversial information and/or very biased studies backed by the food industry. This is particularly true with physicians who receive very little if any formal training in nutrition while at medical school.

Our science-based understanding of how macronutrients relate to health has been literally turned upside down (i.e.: the food pyramid) in the last decade. There is an extremely strong case for drastically lowering carbohydrates in the western diet based on this research. One need only look at the epidemic rise in type-2 diabetes IN CHILDREN over the last couple of decades to affirm this fact.

Ketogenic-based nutrition come in all shapes & forms. I think it's unfair to simply condemn the concept or to put it on a pedestal, but science makes it clear that the excessive carbohydrate intake of western diets is bad; EXTREMELY bad. IMHO, ketosis to induce autophagy is a good thing. Ketosis for a specific purpose such as dealing with advanced stages of Diabetes type 2 is a good thing. Ketosis to jump start a break away from the Standard American Diet (SAD) is also a good thing.

On occasion, long-term fasts (water only) of up to 10 days are not going to hurt most people providing they don't have any pre-existing conditions. I have done a 7 day fast and also a ten day fast just out of curiosity and I felt no worse for the experiences, and saw no abnormalities in post-fast blood tests compared to the pre-fast tests. I experienced some positive aspects and some negative ones too but IMO there was nothing about them that I felt were going to have long-lasting effects, either positive or negative. Now it's a different story if you are talking about some of these crazy things you see on YouTube about people fasting for months on end, or the idea of "dry" fasting. I mean, that just plain crazy, in my opinion!

Sorry for being long-winded but my point is simply that as a short-term adjunct, there can be many positive aspects of being in ketosis if you are doing it for specific and science-based reasons, AND you know what you are doing, or are being supervised by someone who does.

Edited February 26, 2019 by WaveHunter

WaveHunter · February 26, 2019

26 minutes ago, robblok said:

The sad thing is that you might not even have burned the Kit kat and the M150 on your run. Not commenting on your diet but on how meaningless (in general) exercise is for weight loss.

Though research has shown that people who exercise in general take better care of their food.

Sorry to disagree but that's silly. How can you say that exercise has no bearing on weight loss? My typical bike ride is two hours long and involves a hill climb up Doi Suthep. My cycling computer says I burn around 1,000 calories on a ride like that, and I know that to be a fact. I am not trying to lose weight but if I was, I think that would GREATLY contribute to it.

robblok · February 26, 2019

18 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Sorry to disagree but that's silly. How can you say that exercise has no bearing on weight loss? My typical bike ride is two hours long and involves a hill climb up Doi Suthep. My cycling computer says I burn around 1,000 calories on a ride like that, and I know that to be a fact. I am not trying to lose weight but if I was, I think that would GREATLY contribute to it.

I don't care that you disagree, and in your case you might be right. Though I am not sure about your 1000 calories as its quite high and most computers overestimate things quite a bit.

Most people don't do 2 hour bike rides, most people me included would be hard pressed to burn 500 calories a day from exercise. Eating 500 calories a day less is far easier and most people also don't exercise 7 days a week. So given all those things exercise is not that great for weight control.

It might be different in your case (still doubt the 1000 calories) as its often overstated.

https://www.active.com/triathlon/articles/are-you-overestimating-calorie-burn

I like exercise but i don't think it helps as much as you think (unless you really go out each and every day for your 2 hour ride).

I think diet be it Keto (no problem with keto just with keto fanatics), IF, Paleo, normal caloric restrictions is the best way to lose weight.

Also all diets give similar results and keto has no advantage (unless the person has an insulin problem). I like my carbs before a workout, it gives me a better workout and helps building muscle. You can't build muscle while on low carb (proven to be a fact) in the same extend as with carbs.

But you won't hear me saying that one diet suits all.

JaiLai · February 26, 2019

I don't care that you disagree, and in your case you might be right. Though I am not sure about your 1000 calories as its quite high and most computers overestimate things quite a bit.

Most people don't do 2 hour bike rides, most people me included would be hard pressed to burn 500 calories a day from exercise. Eating 500 calories a day less is far easier and most people also don't exercise 7 days a week. So given all those things exercise is not that great for weight control.

It might be different in your case (still doubt the 1000 calories) as its often overstated.

https://www.active.com/triathlon/articles/are-you-overestimating-calorie-burn

I like exercise but i don't think it helps as much as you think (unless you really go out each and every day for your 2 hour ride).

I think diet be it Keto (no problem with keto just with keto fanatics), IF, Paleo, normal caloric restrictions is the best way to lose weight.

Also all diets give similar results and keto has no advantage (unless the person has an insulin problem). I like my carbs before a workout, it gives me a better workout and helps building muscle. You can't build muscle while on low carb (proven to be a fact) in the same extend as with carbs.

But you won't hear me saying that one diet suits all.

I burned 550 calories in my run today and was not really pushing myself.

I run that each day.

My point is that run does more good to my health than a bar of chocolate and a drink containing lots of sugar does bad.

I’d say my diet is not very good but loads of water and regular exercise keeps my weight balanced.

For me I find when trying to maintain a strict diet and staying lean you have to pretty much sacrifice too much, socialising / drinking / food you enjoy, it’s mentally difficult for me. The training part I find easy.

My very humble opinion only.

Some of the diets / regimes mentioned is this thread you’d more or less have to lock yourself away.....not for me!

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brokenbone · February 26, 2019

3 hours ago, JaiLai said:

Good for you mate.

What’s your one meal consist of?

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penaeng moo or moo yang

kannot · February 26, 2019

Simon I suggest you follow my 91 year old Mothers regime, get up when ya feel like it, eat what yer want, stroke cat, maybe go out drive the car to coffee shop, down coffee and repeat daily.

Ive told her already "when am I getting my bloody inheritance"

She even squandered 2 thousand quid on a cataract op 6 months ago!

kannot · February 26, 2019

9 minutes ago, JaiLai said:

My point is that run does more good to my

knee joints??

robblok · February 26, 2019

12 minutes ago, JaiLai said:

I burned 550 calories in my run today and was not really pushing myself.

I run that each day.

My point is that run does more good to my health than a bar of chocolate and a drink containing lots of sugar does bad.

I’d say my diet is not very good but loads of water and regular exercise keeps my weight balanced.

For me I find when trying to maintain a strict diet and staying lean you have to pretty much sacrifice too much, socialising / drinking / food you enjoy, it’s mentally difficult for me. The training part I find easy.

My very humble opinion only.

Some of the diets / regimes mentioned is this thread you’d more or less have to lock yourself away.....not for me!

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I often feel that calories are overstated and that has been proven countless times. So maybe you did burn 550 or maybe it was 400. Hard to know. Still doing it each day puts you ahead of the group.

I never said exercise is bad for you. There is a reason why i workout in my gym and that is because its good for the body. I just said as a weight loss tool its not as good as just eating less. I train because its healthy and keeps me in shape, not for the weight loss aspect.

You found something that works for you then keep up with it. I keep a relatively strict diet with exercise and it works for me. Though I don't worry too much anymore about days that I am off diet. That is ok as long as it does not happen too much.

Edited February 26, 2019 by robblok

JaiLai · February 26, 2019

knee joints??

Yes - 2 of, one on each leg, about half way down...

Seriously though, yes this is a concern I guess, the treadmills I use have suspension which I guess helps to some extent, I don’t run on anything now.

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robblok · February 26, 2019

4 minutes ago, JaiLai said:

Yes - 2 of, one on each leg, about half way down...

Seriously though, yes this is a concern I guess, the treadmills I use have suspension which I guess helps to some extent, I don’t run on anything now.

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There are supposedly some supplements you can take for the joints. It might benefit you. I don't know too much about it as I don't have joint problems.

But i did start to lift a bit less heavy and higher reps to prevent damage. Sports has its own dangers but its still better then doing nothing.

Many people love to use the excuses of risk from sports to do nothing.

jak2002003 · February 26, 2019

1 hour ago, cooked said:

Dear oh dear.

I haven't invented anything and I did go to the trouble of investigating this stuff for at least a year before I started defending Keto. Eating too many carbs is lethal. A part of the weight loss associated with fat loss is water, of course it is. This doesn't really matter, weight loss is weight loss and you can't tell me that the people losing 50 Kg are just losing 50 Kg of water or that that would be unhealthy. Here's a reference https://sci-fit.net/keto-flush/ which does talk about water loss in a scientific fashion.

This ISN'T a quick fix, and the results tend to remain, plenty of studies have shown that, especially as maintaining ketosis stifles hunger, which none of the other diets do, they nearly all fail, look around you. Keto Is about "Eating healthy food as part of a balanced diet, moderate exercise every day, be active." as you say, and carbs AREN'T healthy.

I am used to getting indignant posts from trained nutritionists and dieticians, they waffle on about missing nutrients (ketoists are well aware of these problems and counter them) as well as the problem with kidneys etc, which are minimal but often pushed forward as a major argument against Keto. Ref: https://perfectketo.com/ketosis-kidney/

OK, don't worry, this is my last post of the topic, but I feel I need to address some of your post.

''I did go to the trouble of investigating this stuff ….. before I started defending Keto'.

Probably you mean you spent time on the internet and reading Keto books. That is not getting a level understanding of the subject.

'Carbs aren't healthy'.

No one food group is healthy in excess! Carbohydrate are not a poison or DEADLY as other posters say. Problem is these days people are consuming huge quantities of carbohydrates as part of an unbalanced diet and sedentary lifestyle, and what is worse is that these are mostly from processed foods, and their diets are unbalanced. Look at the nation where people live the longest..... they eat a lot of RICE!!!

'the problem with kidneys etc'

Well at least you are admitting there is a problem. To say people push it as an argument, your pushing points in your argument also about Keto.

The study link you provided was interesting, However, I can just as easily link you to studies to show how harmful long term fasting is to the body.

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