Bangkok Will Have Two International Airports

[mitrapaap]

2 airports for international use....This is what should have been done in the first place.

Apart from the benefits for incoming and outgoing tourists in better baggage handling, less time taken for processing etc...It would have given them time to sort out the teething problems and ensure that the new airport was viable before they were committed to full use.....

I suggest all European and Russian flights go to the new one and flights from the Asian pacific areas go to the old one.

The fun and games we can expect haven't even begun yet. Firstly it is impossible to have 2 airports called BKK, one or other will have to be recoded, and that is not an overnight job, will take months and have to be input on all flight reservations and airport systems and thousands of pre booked passengers suddenly find they are going somewhere else. Domestic connections will be chaos! The fun will start soon

There are not too many flight reservation systems on this planet. Amadeus is one, Galileo another one. Might have one or two more, really not a big deal to add a Destination code.

[John K]

I can’t help but think they must have seen a preliminary report that prompted the decision to reopen DM. I just wonder if the full unedited report will ever be made public. I would not doubt they may want to water it down some to save face.

[Maestro]

The construction of an airport runway requires a special technique that only a handful of companies in the world possess. The local company building the runways at Suvarnabhumi obviously did not. Patching up the existing cracks won’t solve the problem. The whole runways, or at least the parts where aircraft touch down, need to be completely rebuilt from scratch, by a company that knows the job.

The beautifully arched steel beams of the terminal building are not sufficiently strong and stable. As they move, windows crack. There is a risk of part of ceiling falling down before long. To save costs, the original specifications were changed to use only 60% of the quantity of steel previously specified.

The government has already known for some time that Suvarnabhumi must be shut down. What we are reading in the papers – first, announcement of only non-connecting domestic flights being transferred to Don Muang, then all flights of low-cost carriers, then operating both airports concurrently for domestic and international flights – is a face-saving tactic to close Suvarnabhumi. The airlines will clamour for the operation of all flights from only one airport, and the government will reluctantly give in. Face saved, mission accomplished!

--

Maestro

[moo23]

I suggest all European and Russian flights go to the new one and flights from the Asian pacific areas go to the old one.

but i want they change to use only the old one!!!!!!

[moo23]

The construction of an airport runway requires a special technique that only a handful of companies in the world possess. The local company building the runways at Suvarnabhumi obviously did not. Patching up the existing cracks won't solve the problem. The whole runways, or at least the parts where aircraft touch down, need to be completely rebuilt from scratch, by a company that knows the job.

The beautifully arched steel beams of the terminal building are not sufficiently strong and stable. As they move, windows crack. There is a risk of part of ceiling falling down before long. To save costs, the original specifications were changed to use only 60% of the quantity of steel previously specified.

The government has already known for some time that Suvarnabhumi must be shut down. What we are reading in the papers – first, announcement of only non-connecting domestic flights being transferred to Don Muang, then all flights of low-cost carriers, then operating both airports concurrently for domestic and international flights – is a face-saving tactic to close Suvarnabhumi. The airlines will clamour for the operation of all flights from only one airport, and the government will reluctantly give in. Face saved, mission accomplished!

--

Maestro

hmmmm

[Jai Dee]

Transport Ministry accelerates improvement of Don Muang Airport

The Ministry of Transport is accelerating the improvement of the Don Muang Airport, to be ready for use again soon.

Mr. Sansern Wongcha-um (สรรเสริญ วงศ์ชะอุ่ม), Deputy Minister of Transport, revealed that each airline is free to choose whether to utilize the Don Muang Airport which was closed down four months ago to pave for the opening of Suvarnabhumi Airport.

He said that the renewal process will emphasize on the flight security and convenience in customer-servicing.

Shops in the Airport will not be re-opened at the beginning because the transparent bidding process will take time. The runway surface smoothing is currently in progress, expected to be finished by March 2 with a budget of 16 million Baht. While human resource recruitment and equipment purchases will need the budget of not exceeding 10 million Baht.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 08 Febuary 2007

[Ricardo]

Does anyone care to speculate, by how much further the departure-tax will need to rise, to cover the cost of operating two major international airports at 48% full, instead of one at 85% ?

While some of these costs are variable, depending on the number of passengers passing through or the number of flights handled, many more are fixed or semi-fixed.

Will AoT pick up the bill, or the government, or who ?

[ovenman]

The Ministry of Transport is accelerating the improvement of the Don Muang Airport, to be ready for use again soon.

I wonder whether that means they are looking to shorten the original forty-five day timeframe quoted to ready Don Muang for use?

[ilyushin]

Where are you people getting the idea that Don Muang has been closed down since the new airport opened. It has been operating everyday serving aircraft maintenance, flight training, military ops, fixed base operations, private planes, charters, etc. Did anyone anywhere ever say it closed? It certainly didn't!

Excellent!

Correct it still remains operation and very open.

[Jai Dee]

IATA's view on two Thai international airports considered normal

Transport Minister Adm.Theera Hao-charoen (ธีระ ห้าวเจริญ) indicated that foreign opposition to Thailand's operation of 2 international airports was a normal expression of opinion.

Adm. Theera said that the Thai government must follow the resolution of the Cabinet following the International Air Transport Association's (IATA) opposition to Thailand's decision to establish two international airports. Adm. Theera said the IATA's views were normal expression of viewpoints. He remarked that despite the unreadiness of major airlines to relocate their flight operations, the government must proceed with its plan in order to rapidly regain the confidence of flight operators.

The Minister of Transport added that Thai authorities must see to it that the business rights of all involved parties is not infringed upon.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 08 Febuary 2007

[cclub75]

it's almost done guys...

Bye, bye Suva.

Suvarnabhumi airport should be temporarily closed for huge repair on its runways and taxiways, said a high-ranking official Thursday.

"If we want to fix cracks on the runways, we have no choice but to close down Suvarnabhumi because this is involved with passengers' safety," said Bannawit Kengrien, chairman of a special committee for Suvarnabhumi issues, after visiting the new airport.

"The closing period should be around six to ten months," Adm Bannawit said. "Then, we can reopen the airport.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=116656

Edited February 8, 2007 by cclub75

[Dah fahrang]

Air traffic controllers can be hired from abroad if necessary.

naah...cheaper, easier and quicker to get someone in Khaosan Road to print fake certification!

Then, the backpackers on multiple 30 day visas who are driven away from teaching English by the latest witch-hunt can spend their time directing a few planes. As they profess to be ?teachers? of English, they would able to quickly learn simple bar girl vocabulary: eg; 'approach' 'push-back' 'line-up' 'take-off' 'back-track' 'enter' 'start-up' 'unload' 'hold' 'overshoot' and 'exit'.

Should do for a few years, until they overstay, or the crackdown on bogus ATC certification.

[Mid]

it's almost done guys...

Bye, bye Suva.

Suvarnabhumi airport should be temporarily closed for huge repair on its runways and taxiways, said a high-ranking official Thursday.

"If we want to fix cracks on the runways, we have no choice but to close down Suvarnabhumi because this is involved with passengers' safety," said Bannawit Kengrien, chairman of a special committee for Suvarnabhumi issues, after visiting the new airport.

"The closing period should be around six to ten months," Adm Bannawit said. "Then, we can reopen the airport.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=116656

Hub of White Elephants ............

[tijnebijn]

Wow,I hope the international flights fron europe will fly over good old Don muang,easy to reach from the city and then don't have to explore the new one,good feeling this one.

[redrus]

Where are you people getting the idea that Don Muang has been closed down since the new airport opened. It has been operating everyday serving aircraft maintenance, flight training, military ops, fixed base operations, private planes, charters, etc. Did anyone anywhere ever say it closed? It certainly didn't!

Excellent!

Correct it still remains operation and very open.

The Death Star is fully operational, Luke....!

Unlike Suvarnabhumi, which may take a little longer....!

redrus

[esprit]

Suvarnabhumi international shopping mall perhaps. Runways won't need extensive repairs as they can be used for the worlds longest car park. The control tower can then be a restaurant. Any other ideas ?

[ColPyat]

It's getting even worse now. Just on 'Hot News' was a report with pics, that the pillars and foundations of the rail link to the airport have developed serious cracks as well.

[sriracha john]

Not much gets through the "cracks" with the ever-vigilant iTV gang.

However, the even-more impressive TV gang beat them to the draw on this one... by about 9 months:

From the thread OP on May 8, 2006:

Latest Airport Scandal... Cracks, Cracks, And More Cracks, Mass transit rail pillars under construction show cracks

Edited February 8, 2007 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

That reminds of the other airport story going on at the time:

"The Man In Charge"

Workers and journalists walks past a Thai-styled pavilion at the international arrival at the Suvarnabhumi airport in Bangkok, Thailand. Suvarnabhumi airport scheduled to open later this year, has taken a series of beatings. The long-delayed project has taken more than 40 years to finish, and officials have faced persistent corruption allegations related to its construction, ranging from land speculation to bribery and kickbacks.

AP

============================

So knowledgeable in appearance with his commanding, I-know-everything presence.

If the AP only knew just accurate their words were 9 months ago.

Edited February 8, 2007 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

[Jai Dee]

Legislative investigators: Don Muang fit for service

Thai legislators investigating problems at Suvarnabhumi Airport are confident that Bangkok’s recently-decommissioned former international airport at Don Muang will be ready to resume service for both international and domestic flights within 45 days as planned.

Meanwhile, carriers are urging transport authorities to make clear which airlines are to move back to Don Muang and which ones are to remain at the new airport to avoid further confusion and disruption of passenger travel plans.

Admiral Bannawit Kengrien, chairman of the National Legislative Assembly committee inspecting problems at Suvarnabhumi Airport, told reporters during the inspection of Don Muang Airport Thursday that he would prefer the Airports of Thailand Co to completely shut down the facility at Suvarnabhumi for a major overhaul.

He was concerned that closing off damaged sections of the runways and taxiways for repairs, as is the case, might be deemed unsafe by the travelling public and the airline industry.

There are over 100 cracks in the runways and taxiways at the new airport which opened only four months ago.

The legislator warned it could take up to a year to undertake major repairs at Suvarnabhumi.

A panel of technical experts, which was hastily assembled to determine the scale of the cracks at the new airport, is due to report back on Friday.

The Thai Cabinet decided earlier this week to reopen Don Muang not only for domestic flights but also for international flights in a bid to ease congestion while mounting problems at Suvarnabhumi are addressed.

Thai AirAsia CEO Tassapon Bijleveld said he had no objection to the government plan to operate two international airports in Bangkok simultaneously but the authorities should provide clarity as to which airlines would be based at Don Muang and which airlines would stay at Suvarnabhumi.

It would be highly impractical and costly for each airline to maintain a presence at both airports, he added.

Airline representatives are invited to a meeting at the Transport Ministry next week for consultation.

Source: TNA - 9 February 2007

[PhilHarries]

Couple of paragraphs from todays Bangkok Post article entitled "Closure talk riles Saprang".

Sorry forgot to copy the link.

" The ministry (Transport) made it clear that airlines moving their operations from Suvarnabhumi back to Don Muang must take responsibility for relocation costs."

also Deputy Transport Minister Sansern Wongcha-um was quoted,

"The relocation of operations to Don Muang by airlines will be on a voluntary basis with no compulsion. The fact is that some airlines have to transfer to ease congestion [at Suvarnabhumi] and for the repairs at the new airport. Airlineswere making their own calculations on whether relocating would benefit or hamper their operations."

This looks to me like a classic case of passing the buck. The reopening of DMK is necessary to alleviate congestion at the new airport caused by the airlines who were forced to transfer there by the closure of Don Muang but it is the airline's fault.

Another little cutie in the article,

"It (the board of AoT) also urged the ministry (Transport) to work on a plan to link Suvarnabhumi with Don Muang to keep Thailand's position as a regional aviation hub."

The inference there is that this partial relocation back to DMK is not a temporary thing and that Bangkok will continue to operate with two airports.

[Meerkat]

also Deputy Transport Minister Sansern Wongcha-um was quoted,

"The relocation of operations to Don Muang by airlines will be on a voluntary basis with no compulsion. The fact is that some airlines have to transfer to ease congestion [at Suvarnabhumi] and for the repairs at the new airport. Airlineswere making their own calculations on whether relocating would benefit or hamper their operations."

I don't understand this. In the first sentence he states that the move will be voluntary, but in the second one he says that some airlines will have to move so that repairs can be effected.

So which is it?

[Mid]

both ,

and if not enough choose (A) , then it will no longer be an option ...................................

[Jai Dee]

Engineers unable to agree on root cause of airport cracks

The public is supposed to know on Monday the conclusion of the root cause of the problem with Suvarnabhumi's runways and other parts of the airport.

But judging by yesterday's discussion among the country's leading engineers and architects, there seemed to be little confidence that the professionals were closer to understanding the problem, much less the implementation of the solution.

Although many engineers agreed that drainage and subsurface water might be responsible for the ruts and cracks in the airport, they could not agree on the sources of the problematic water in the sand layer that had weakened the strength of the asphalt on the surface of the taxiways.

Some engineers, including Ampai Poosripong of the Engineering Association of Thailand, suggested the water could be evidence of either poor engineering in draining the water out from the soft swamp soil about a decade ago, or a problem with the current surface-water management by the airport operator.

However, Malaysian geotechnical engineer Dr Tian Ho Seah, from the consulting firm MAA Geotechnics, which took part in underground water drainage a decade ago, made a presentation that focused on poor surface-water management.

He argued that poor engineering techniques could not be the cause of the problem as evidenced by the standard rate of settlement of soil in the airfield.

He instead pinpointed the problem of water overflows from nearby canals onto the airfield, which remained in the sand layer about one metre under the taxiways.

Nonetheless, Seah admitted that nobody yet understood the entire picture. He used the analogy of an elephant and a group of blind men, in which each of them assumed the shape of the elephant from the parts they touched, with none having a concept of the whole animal.

"Do we have enough facts? Or is everybody just talking about different things?" Seah asked.

There were a lot of concerns at the passenger terminal too, said architect Yodyiem Theptaranon, who was recently appointed to sit on the board of directors of Airports of Thailand Plc. He cited the example of the 27 revolving doors, 17 of which have broken glass. It was also found that the glass was not tempered or laminated to protect passengers from getting injured.

"Suvarnabhumi is the apex of shame of our profession," he said. "There are many problems that we still don't know of. We have to start looking at the other side of the coin. What's most important in arriving at a solution is finding out what we don't know."

The issue of the independence of professionals involved in identifying the problem and the solution was raised again yesterday.

Professor Dr Panithan Lakanaprasit from Chulalongkorn University's Engineering Faculty said he was concerned about the potential conflict of interest as most people in the engineering and architecture professions had had something to do with the nearly five-decade-long airport project.

He urged professional organisations, including the Engineering Association of Thailand, the Siamese Architects' Association, the Engineering Consultation Association and the Construction Association, which jointly held the meeting yesterday, to make sure they put the right people in charge to revive the faith of the public about people in these professions.

Regardless of all the uncertainties, Tortrakul Yomnark, chairman of the committee appointed to determine the cause of the airport problem, will hold a press conference on Monday to announce his findings.

He said he was convinced that water could be responsible for ruts and cracks but a lot more tests would have to be done to reach a final conclusion.

Source: The Nation - 10 February 2007

[gburns57au]

A crackdown on cracks is needed.....

[tartempion]

I believe that they will have to close, partially or totally Suva in order to proceed to massive repairs.

You can not repair what was ill-built.

Please return savanaboum to the cobras (the runways will flush away soon anyway )

And as I mentionned in earlier treads, the place was not built with the traveler in mind.

For those who disagree with this statement, please list 10 items that prove the place was designed making travellers life easy and smooth?

- did they use noise reducing materials such as concrete, metal and glass to give travellers a non-stressing experience?

- did they make access to the gates easy for travellers?

- did they make access to the airport easy? (roads, rail links, taxis, buses)

- did they provide rest areas(chairs, toilets) as would be needed by 45 million passengers/year

- did they make provisions for short check-in lines?

- did they make it easy to find food?

etc etc

[John K]

Engineers unable to agree on root cause of airport cracks

It seems that Mi pen rai may be the cause.

[PeaceBlondie]

There were a lot of concerns at the passenger terminal too, said architect Yodyiem Theptaranon, who was recently appointed to sit on the board of directors of Airports of Thailand Plc. He cited the example of the 27 revolving doors, 17 of which have broken glass. It was also found that the glass was not tempered or laminated to protect passengers from getting injured.

"Suvarnabhumi is the apex of shame of our profession," he said. "There are many problems that we still don't know of. We have to start looking at the other side of the coin. What's most important in arriving at a solution is finding out what we don't know."

Over half of the revolving doors already have broken glass, and it's not safety glass? Apex of shame, indeed!

[sriracha john]

There were a lot of concerns at the passenger terminal too, said architect Yodyiem Theptaranon, who was recently appointed to sit on the board of directors of Airports of Thailand Plc. He cited the example of the 27 revolving doors, 17 of which have broken glass. It was also found that the glass was not tempered or laminated to protect passengers from getting injured.

:D

Yet another new albatross? Yet more problems to deal with?

Edited February 10, 2007 by sriracha john