UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[kwilco]

So one lemarket and no interent means the public was not informed?

By that logic will will have to declare a few other changes invalid....

How about the US war of independence?

The French revolution?

Magna Carta?

Norman conquest?

Great Reform Bills

Declaration of Rights of Man?

[Ahab]

16 hours ago, SheungWan said:

I wouldn't say all Brexiteers are dimwitted.

That is good, the post was directed at someone else (unless you have multiple logon names to Thai Visa).

 

[Kieran00001]

16 hours ago, nauseus said:

Evidently there were two but as discussed before on one of these Brexit topics, this NO pamphlet, strangely, did not make the letterboxes of all British homes. If I had seen it I would have remembered it as accurate, valid, far-seeing and well done.    

 

There is nothing in there was not discussed at length in parliament and also on the radio, I presume you were not interested in politics at the time and are now trying to hide your choice to remain behind the lie that these things were in some way hidden from the public at the time, they weren't, they were unknown to you.  I imagine there will be an awful lot of Leave supporters trying to do a similar thing in the future, claiming that they couldn't have known the reality of Brexit before they ignorantly voted to leave.

[sandyf]

9 hours ago, billd766 said:

I have to disagree with you Sandy.

 

Scotland is a nation and even the leading party is called the Scottish Nationalist Party. They voted as a nation to leave or remain in the union of 4 nations.

 

Quite, and a referendum that covers one nation cannot be compared to a referendum that covers 4 nations and dependent territories.

 

You made a comment about Scotland not having a military. It was all laid out in the white paper, I cannot remember the exact details but the jist was that Scotland would take control of all bases in Scotland, The Royal Navy would give Scotland 2 ships and loan some others, and the RAF were to lease a squadron, Tornadoes I think, to Scotland.

The plans were ludicrous and unworkable and the fact that Alex Salmond was talking about a military force over than above coastal defence scared many into voting against it.

The issue of independence will carry on but who in a supposedly democratic society has the right to deny the people of Scotland from taking that decision as when they see fit.

[transam]

11 hours ago, Grouse said:

Who cares where contributors come from? Are you OK Transam? 

Fine thank you, didn't know you cared....????

[billd766]

11 hours ago, oilinki said:

Does England has it's own military or intelligent services? I guess when the time comes, when England or Scotland will depart from UK, those services will be split, quite like what happened when Soviet Union split. 

 

The same goes to the currency. Does England have it's own currency? 

The UK controls the military and the intelligence services. IF Scotland leaves the UK they will have to develop their own with little or no help from the rest of the country. If it needs its own intelligence service it can ask for help and if people want to work there they can.

 

Do you have any idea of the cost of just one F35 fighter? In 2019 it will be USD $85 million. That is just for 1 aircraft, no spares, no air or ground crew, no fuel, no training etc It has to be paid in USD and not in Scottish pounds which have no legal value outside of Scotland. You will need at least 10 aircraft to keep 6 on line and ready, the other 4 will be down for servicing, repairs and awaiting spares.

 

So just to have 10 aircraft plus the running costs you will need around $1.5 billion. I have no idea of the cost of an Army or a Navy as that is not in my skill set.

 

I sometimes worry about you but I will humour you this one time.

 

quote 

 

"The same goes to the currency. Does England have it's own currency?"

 

The UK currency is called the GBP, symbol £, and has been in existence for many hundreds of years longer than the Euro, symbol €, and will still be around when the Euro is just a fading memory.

[melvinmelvin]

received a parcel from an English friend yesterday, my stuff was wrapped in one Independent and one Times

 

interesting to read through the eu/brexit stuff in the 2 papers

 

did read an interview with raab re parliament voting on deal

 

he went on and on with how to construct voting themes/questions so that parliament

would have to vote so and so in order to be clear to the public

hmmm

struck me that he might be nuts and that he does not understand that parliament does what parliament wants,

not what raab and / or may wants the parliament to do

 

 

[kwilco]

How could anyone in their right minds vote for this?????

 

 

UK facing longest fall in living standards for over 60 years,

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-living-standards-fall-longest-60-years-records-began-economy-household-incomes-costs-energy-a8071146.html?fbclid=IwAR2dlNhhr-GlLy2_jEAhtp5TYn7TZoXviWypQGHkM-VZ6NzJBGzPeLWBzx8

 

 

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

Scottish pounds which have no legal value outside of Scotland.

Scottish Banknotes are legal currency – i.e. they are approved by the UK Parliament.

[nontabury]

1 hour ago, melvinmelvin said:

received a parcel from an English friend yesterday, my stuff was wrapped in one Independent and one Times

 

interesting to read through the eu/brexit stuff in the 2 papers

 

did read an interview with raab re parliament voting on deal

 

he went on and on with how to construct voting themes/questions so that parliament

would have to vote so and so in order to be clear to the public

hmmm

struck me that he might be nuts and that he does not understand that parliament does what parliament wants,

not what raab and / or may wants the parliament to do

 

 

It must have been very old wrapping, as the So called Independent stopped going to print a long time ago.

[nontabury]

50 minutes ago, kwilco said:

How could anyone in their right minds vote for this?????

 

 

UK facing longest fall in living standards for over 60 years,

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-living-standards-fall-longest-60-years-records-began-economy-household-incomes-costs-energy-a8071146.html?fbclid=IwAR2dlNhhr-GlLy2_jEAhtp5TYn7TZoXviWypQGHkM-VZ6NzJBGzPeLWBzx8

 

 

Why are you so gullible, as to print this article from the so called Independent. Are you completely unaware that the main stream U.K media is so out of step with the British people. Preferring to rely on Project Fear.

[nontabury]

7 hours ago, kwilco said:

 Don't you think it's a bit odd that people living in a foreign country should want their home country to cut ties with foreign countries?

As someone who is living in his home country,I can assure you that even more Brits are in support of Britexit. This includes many people who voted for remain in the referendum. The reason being,that they now realise the truth behind the E.U.  This is in spite of all the E.U lies, posted in the British media, thankfully social media is now a prominent source to gain the actual truth.

 

 

[nauseus]

12 hours ago, tebee said:

A self-destructive madness grips the U.K. as a no-deal Brexit looms

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/commentary/article-a-self-destructive-madness-grips-the-uk-as-a-no-deal-brexit-looms/

This fool Mortishead says "Mr. Major was never a big supporter of the EU, either in office or in retirement".

What lies! Major obsessively pushed for the Maastricht Treaty and it was a long fight, without a referendum. It was after Maastricht that the political aims of the EU became plainly evident and when the start of the massive rejection of the EU began in the UK. But now Major wants another referendum because the recent result didn't suit. He's a complete arse.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, kwilco said:

How could anyone in their right minds vote for this?????

 

 

UK facing longest fall in living standards for over 60 years,

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-living-standards-fall-longest-60-years-records-began-economy-household-incomes-costs-energy-a8071146.html?fbclid=IwAR2dlNhhr-GlLy2_jEAhtp5TYn7TZoXviWypQGHkM-VZ6NzJBGzPeLWBzx8

 

 

Keep 'em coming Sgt Kwilco! Just to let you know I never read The Independent - it blocks me up - overloaded with crap, I suppose!  

[nauseus]

12 hours ago, vinny41 said:

And course if anyone was to ask you to produce evidence of Russian minded trolls on this forum you can't , other than you want to control the narrative of this topic to suit your own agenda as stated with you its all about Control Control and Control

Da, da and da (oops).

[Stupooey]

1 hour ago, nontabury said:

Why are you so gullible, as to print this article from the so called Independent. Are you completely unaware that the main stream U.K media is so out of step with the British people. Preferring to rely on Project Fear.

 

Plenty of Leavers have posted articles from the Independent, so are they gullible too or does the Independent only print the truth in articles supporting Brexit? Amongst the national newspapers it would appear to be the Express, Mail, Sun and Telegraph who are out of step with the British people as they are 2-3 years behind the times, still believing that the majority of the electorate want to leave. Finally, reducing everything to two-word slogans does not support an argument, it just displays Sun-reader-mentality ignorance.

[transam]

13 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

 

Plenty of Leavers have posted articles from the Independent, so are they gullible too or does the Independent only print the truth in articles supporting Brexit? Amongst the national newspapers it would appear to be the Express, Mail, Sun and Telegraph who are out of step with the British people as they are 2-3 years behind the times, still believing that the majority of the electorate want to leave. Finally, reducing everything to two-word slogans does not support an argument, it just displays Sun-reader-mentality ignorance.

Hey, I only bought the Sun to look at Samantha on page 3...????

[evadgib]

5 minutes ago, transam said:

Hey, I only bought the Sun to look at Samantha on page 3...????

She needs page 2 too these days trans ????

[transam]

1 minute ago, evadgib said:

She needs page 2 too these days trans ????

I am OK with that as I get mesmerised by those big inches whether under the hood or anywhere else...????

[Grouse]

As must be clear by now, I strongly favour remain over Brexit. That opinion has strengthened over the past 28 months.

 

I have discussed Nash equilibrium to explain why Norway + would be a an optimal outcome assuming equally rational negotiators on both sides 

 

Here is something else from game theory 

 

http://www.gametheory.net/news/items/095.html

 

This shows that losing people are much more likely to take a risk than people who are doing relatively well and have accumulated some assets.

 

I think it explains nicely why so many of the "not doing so well" are much more likely to favour Brexit even though the risks are real, quantifiable and significant and the potential gains are intangible, small and in many ways improbable. (a high risk in other words)

 

Now I accept there is a tribe of wealthy cynical Brexit "bastards" who see an opportunity to build a cheap offshore economy (I'll not repeat the details here). No, I'm talking about C-, D demographics. People who voted Labour, then UKIP and now CON.

 

Read the article-a good psychological explanation!

[Guest]

4 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

I sometimes worry about you but I will humour you this one time.

 

quote 

 

"The same goes to the currency. Does England have it's own currency?"

 

The UK currency is called the GBP, symbol £, and has been in existence for many hundreds of years longer than the Euro, symbol €, and will still be around when the Euro is just a fading memory.

Thanks for the explanation of the 60% fly/no fly thought what comes to military aircraft. That was interesting.

 

Do not worry. The real idea of asking if England, not UK has it's own money could become relevant when UK dismantles itself and there is no longer United Kingdoms. There is Scotland, Ireland, Wales and England. Does one call the union of England and Wales still United Kingdom? England naturally has the largest population and economy, but still. Will the current UK pound to be called as UK pound or English pound?

 

There is many similar questions, how the UK's heritance be divided by the current member states in case of a divorce. It's also quite similar to the current situation what is happening between EU and UK when UK wanted to bail out from the union. 

 

If England is going to handle the UK divorce in similar manner as it's handling the divorce from EU, darn.. it's time to start claiming those 30*30 cm pieces of land from Scotland, which comes with the bottles of Laphroaig smoky heavens. Those will be highly valuable in the future. ???? 

 

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, nontabury said:

Why are you so gullible, as to print this article from the so called Independent. Are you completely unaware that the main stream U.K media is so out of step with the British people. Preferring to rely on Project Fear.

One can only shudder to imagine what the Brexiteer about town is reading, if anything.

[evadgib]

2 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

One can only shudder to imagine what the Brexiteer about town is reading, if anything.

This board!

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Hey, I only bought the Sun to look at Samantha on page 3...????

Big surprise there.

[Stupooey]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Hey, I only bought the Sun to look at Samantha on page 3...????

But were you aware of the subliminal message tattooed around her aureolae telling you to vote for Brexit?

[tebee]

2 hours ago, transam said:

Hey, I only bought the Sun to look at Samantha on page 3...????

What did you do when you found out she was gay ?

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, transam said:

Hey, I only bought the Sun to look at Samantha on page 3...????

Samantha Fox's huge twins? Darn, I knew there had to be some things we all could agree about. This is a valid starting point, perhaps not what we expected, for finding a collective understanding how the brexit should be handled.

 

Perhaps we should take a moment of thinking about Sabrina and then go further to talk about the problematic Irish border issue. A start is a start. 

 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, tebee said:

What did you do when you found out she was gay ?

 

Please answer, you seeing her, being a lesbian, is doubling the opportunities.

 

In a way that also sums up the whole Brexit negotiations. Some people are being realistic of their future chances. Some are looking for the possibility of Ménage à trois, no matter how impossible it might be. ????

 

[vinny41]

6 hours ago, kwilco said:

How could anyone in their right minds vote for this?????

 

 

UK facing longest fall in living standards for over 60 years,

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-living-standards-fall-longest-60-years-records-began-economy-household-incomes-costs-energy-a8071146.html?fbclid=IwAR2dlNhhr-GlLy2_jEAhtp5TYn7TZoXviWypQGHkM-VZ6NzJBGzPeLWBzx8

 

 

Wow you are getting desperate now having to trawl back and find negative articles this one was published 23 November 2017

 

[tebee]

More people deciding we are likely to crash out with all the economic consequences that will have.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-fitch/fitch-says-it-no-longer-assumes-britain-will-get-a-smooth-brexit-idUSKCN1N02SJ?fbclid=IwAR2DDccZtI6VWn0p7RsdKQazF7c47YHLiPa9ANDk7MqefCbILSu_XFN4CjE