UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[bristolboy]

6 minutes ago, tebee said:

I'm consistent at least !

 

FT paywall is fairly porous, Times is much harder.

 

 I'm a right click man, but still too lazy!

 

If you look, I do often quote posts, but I never attribute them, as this only seems to lead to deletion.

The Times and the Wall Street Journal are tougher. Sometimes I will just google the headline. WSJ articles are sometimes featured in other venues that don't have a paywall or a very easily bypassed one.

[melvinmelvin]

28 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

For those of us who aren't computer hackers, here is a completely legitimate way to circumvent the firewall. 

1) copy headline of article

2)open incognito page in Chrome (or equivalent in whatever browser you use)

3)paste headline into search

4) search

Usually the article will pop up first and the link will work.

yes,

I'm doing that every now and then, works fairly  well

[My Thai Life]

24 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

For those of us who aren't computer hackers, here is a completely legitimate way to circumvent the firewall. 

1) copy headline of article

2)open incognito page in Chrome (or equivalent in whatever browser you use)

3)paste headline into search

4) search

Usually the article will pop up first and the link will work.

Wow it works! The problem with getting content for free is that it logically leads to a significant reduction in professional journalistic content. Then we'd be left with little more than alt-right and alt-left lunacy. Thanks for the tip though! Right, now back to the mud-slinging debate ????

[bristolboy]

Just now, My Thai Life said:

Wow it works! The problem with getting content for free is that it logically leads to a significant reduction in professional journalistic content. Then we'd be left with little more than alt-right and alt-left lunacy. Thanks for the tip though! Right, now back to the mud-slinging debate ????

Often, just using an incognito window will do the trick.

 

[My Thai Life]

I don't want to take the thread too far off course with discussion of news providers. But whatever side of the debate you favour, it's a good idea to read the news from the other side too!

[Stupooey]

3 hours ago, kwilco said:

No...I think it was patriot1066, that hilarious misnomer for a Brexiteer.

Not sure about that. I seem to remember from my history lessons at school that Hastings was the only battle the English (or British) ever lost. Brexit would be the second.

[brewsterbudgen]

Often, just using an incognito window will do the trick.
 

What is an incognito window?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[bristolboy]

12 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

Not sure about that. I seem to remember from my history lessons at school that Hastings was the only battle the English (or British) ever lost. Brexit would be the second.

And what year did the Battle of Hastings take place?

[bristolboy]

7 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

What is an incognito window?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

It's a feature of chrome. I could explain it but it's kind of tedious. Just google it.

[Stupooey]

2 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

And what year did the Battle of Hastings take place?

 

Battle of Hastings: 1964   Mods v Rockers

 

Battle of Senlac Hill: 1066   Anglo-Saxons (Germans) v Normans (French)

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

20 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

What is an incognito window?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Hit CNTRL+SHIFT+'N' on your keyboard on Windows (Chrome) and you can browse 'incognito'.

[bristolboy]

17 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

 

Battle of Hastings: 1964   Mods v Rockers

 

Battle of Senlac Hill: 1066   Anglo-Saxons (Germans) v Normans (French)

I stand corrected. And enlightened.

[melvinmelvin]

32 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

 

Battle of Hastings: 1964   Mods v Rockers

 

Battle of Senlac Hill: 1066   Anglo-Saxons (Germans) v Normans (French)

what happened to Stamford Bridge?, battle that is 

 

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

1 hour ago, Stupooey said:

 

Battle of Hastings: 1964   Mods v Rockers

 

Battle of Senlac Hill: 1066   Anglo-Saxons (Germans) v Normans (French)

'what happened to Stamford Bridge?, battle that is'

 

Sanglac (could be from old French - lake of blood) or Santlache (sand lake), in old English it was perhaps 'Senlac' - and it's been suggested that the Normans nicknamed the area 'blood lake' as a pun on the English 'sand lake', after the victory, which was very narrowly won by them, taking 6 or more hours to decide and which could have gone either way at a number of points throughout, so contemporaries reported. 

 

'The Norman chroniclers William of Jumièges and William of Poitiers who were contemporary with the Battle of Hastings did not record the site of the battle as Senlac and the Chronicle of Battle Abbey simply recorded the location in Latin as Bellum (Battle)'

'Later documents however indicate that the abbey had a tract of land known as Santlache (Sandlake) with the name Sandlake continuing for several centuries as a tithing in Battle'

 

What a lot of people don't realise is that Harold Godwinson and his army had been waiting for months for William 'the Bastard' to sail across the channel and engage them, but due to inclement weather he didn't do so. HG and his army had in fact just defeated a fighting force that had besieged the East Yorkshire village of Stamford Bridge after landing on it's nearby coast in Sept of 1066. Tostig (Harold G's little bro) had sought the assistance of the fearsome Harald Hardrada (king of Norway) in enacting revenge on his older brother and taking the crown of England in the process. So after annihilating a notorious Viking army after marching from Wessex on foot to Yorkshire, they then had to march back to the Sussex coast and do battle with the Normans (descendants of Vikings themselves) over 250 miles away only 3 weeks later. A hardy and industrious bunch those Anglo-Saxons!

 

Off topic I know but I love history so couldn't help myself. ????

Edited November 1, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[My Thai Life]

The prognosis for the EU is not good: as well as the internal political conflicts, the national political fragmentations, the erosion of the traditonal centre ground, the steady rise of the nationalist movements, the lack of agreement on refugee and immigration policy, Brexit, we still have the core problem of the Euro, which isn't going away. A few weeks ago from the Harvard Business Review:

 

"What’s more, to be effective, Eurozone governments would also have to coordinate their fiscal policies for them to have any effect. That will require a political consensus across the Euro countries, yet another challenge, for the fallout from the financial crisis of 10 years ago has not only left the region economically enfeebled but has also marked deep political scars. In the next crisis, it will not be easy for the ECB and Eurozone governments to put into effect the measures needed to prevent a repeat of the past 10 years.

So as we approach the Euro’s 20^th birthday in January, let’s try to accentuate the positive in that achievement and find ways to strengthen the political ties underpinning this project. If our politicians cannot achieve some sense of common purpose, there is little likelihood that the Euro will celebrate a 30^thbirthday in 2029."

[billd766]

14 hours ago, mommysboy said:

It has to be posted somewhere.  No one else has chosen to report it.  Yet it's sound reporting.

 

As I see it, there is a big chance that the deal under discussion with the EU will go ahead, with a clause that allows any future government to opt in to a permanent customs relationship.

 

Looking at that budget yesterday it did smack of a pre-election budget.  perhaps the deal (which is in fact no more than a deal to do a deal) will pass Parliament, and there could be a GE to settle the matter of which version it will be.

I agree it has to be reported somewhere.

 

However, IMO you like so many other people on both sides of Brexit are simply guessing what will happen. Nobody really knows as no country has ever tried to withdraw from the EU before.

 

Both the UK and the EU are each trying to get the best deal possible for themselves. The UK is committed to leave but are lead by a Remainer and the EU has said no to every proposal put before them and are on a collision course at which both sides will suffer.

 

I am of the wait and see crowd because nothing that I, you or anybody here on TVF can do to change anything so let whatever is going to happen, happen and accept it. You won't be able to change it no matter what Boris or Gina Millar says. 

[melvinmelvin]

7 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I agree it has to be reported somewhere.

 

However, IMO you like so many other people on both sides of Brexit are simply guessing what will happen. Nobody really knows as no country has ever tried to withdraw from the EU before.

 

Both the UK and the EU are each trying to get the best deal possible for themselves. The UK is committed to leave but are lead by a Remainer and the EU has said no to every proposal put before them and are on a collision course at which both sides will suffer.

 

I am of the wait and see crowd because nothing that I, you or anybody here on TVF can do to change anything so let whatever is going to happen, happen and accept it. You won't be able to change it no matter what Boris or Gina Millar says. 

re no other country,

 

Greenland followed Denmark into EEC when Denmark joined

later Greenland considered this as a mistake

arranged a referendum - then left EEC or EU (can't remember which)

 

The main point being that Greenland would prefer very different fishery policies re their waters.

 

 

[billd766]

13 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

re no other country,

 

Greenland followed Denmark into EEC when Denmark joined

later Greenland considered this as a mistake

arranged a referendum - then left EEC or EU (can't remember which)

 

The main point being that Greenland would prefer very different fishery policies re their waters.

 

 

Thank you. I had not realised that. ????

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_from_the_European_Union#Greenland

 

Greenland chose to leave the EU predecessor without also seceding from a member state. It initially voted against joining the EEC when Denmark joined in 1973, but because Denmark as a whole voted to join, Greenland, as a county of Denmark, joined too. When home rule for Greenland began in 1979, it held a new referendum and voted to leave the EEC. After wrangling over fishing rights, the territory left the EEC in 1985,[26] but remains subject to the EU treaties through association of Overseas Countries and Territories with the EU. This was permitted by the Greenland Treaty, a special treaty signed in 1984 to allow its withdrawal.[27]

 

Also French Algeria and Saint Barthelemy also left but they were part of France until they gained independence.

 

I do learn quite a lot from comments like yours that make me dig a little deeper into the unknown and research a bit more. 

Edited November 1, 2018 by billd766
added extra text

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

24 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

The main point being that Greenland would prefer very different fishery policies re their waters.

 

I think British fishermen know just how they feel! 

[tebee]

Interestingly people in Greenland can choice between  a Danish EU passport and the local (Greenlandic) non-EU passport.

 

I wonder if there would have been less support for remain if we had been allowed to choice our passports

 

[tebee]

2 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

I think British fishermen know just how they feel! 

The problem  is that much of the British quota has been sold by those same fishermen to EU crewed boats. 

 

Repatriating it would presumably compensating the current owners 

[Patriot1066]

9 minutes ago, tebee said:

Interestingly people in Greenland can choice between  a Danish EU passport and the local (Greenlandic) non-EU passport.

 

I wonder if there would have been less support for remain if we had been allowed to choice our passports

 

Quiet possibly there would.

[Patriot1066]

11 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

I think British fishermen know just how they feel! 

Yes our fish has been stolen over the years and decimated our fish stocks

[Patriot1066]

7 minutes ago, tebee said:

The problem  is that much of the British quota has been sold by those same fishermen to EU crewed boats. 

 

Repatriating it would presumably compensating the current owners 

It would be worth it on principal we can get money when we need it to bail out banks or go on Blair wars.

[Patriot1066]

39 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

re no other country,

 

Greenland followed Denmark into EEC when Denmark joined

later Greenland considered this as a mistake

arranged a referendum - then left EEC or EU (can't remember which)

 

The main point being that Greenland would prefer very different fishery policies re their waters.

 

 

Yes your correct they would and would be better off.

[Patriot1066]

28 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Thank you. I had not realised that. ????

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_from_the_European_Union#Greenland

 

Greenland chose to leave the EU predecessor without also seceding from a member state. It initially voted against joining the EEC when Denmark joined in 1973, but because Denmark as a whole voted to join, Greenland, as a county of Denmark, joined too. When home rule for Greenland began in 1979, it held a new referendum and voted to leave the EEC. After wrangling over fishing rights, the territory left the EEC in 1985,[26] but remains subject to the EU treaties through association of Overseas Countries and Territories with the EU. This was permitted by the Greenland Treaty, a special treaty signed in 1984 to allow its withdrawal.[27]

 

Also French Algeria and Saint Barthelemy also left but they were part of France until they gained independence.

 

I do learn quite a lot from comments like yours that make me dig a little deeper into the unknown and research a bit more. 

Very well researched both of you????

[tebee]

1 minute ago, Patriot1066 said:

It would be worth it on principal we can get money when we need it to bail out banks or go on Blair wars.

It probably won't solve the fisherman's problems though 

 

Read this interesting Guardian article 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/11/brexit-uk-fishermen-fishing-industry-quotas-uk-government   

 

    

A more damaging issue, one that transcends national boundaries, is “big” versus “small”. In several EU countries, but most notably in Britain, powerful trawlers and large fishing interests have squeezed out the smaller, more environmentally friendly boats on which local communities depend.

 

None of this is directly “caused” by the existence of the much-maligned EU fisheries policy. Nor is it certain – despite glittering promises by the UK and Scottish governments – that Brexit will bring much relief to coastal fishermen.

[Patriot1066]

53 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I agree it has to be reported somewhere.

 

However, IMO you like so many other people on both sides of Brexit are simply guessing what will happen. Nobody really knows as no country has ever tried to withdraw from the EU before.

 

Both the UK and the EU are each trying to get the best deal possible for themselves. The UK is committed to leave but are lead by a Remainer and the EU has said no to every proposal put before them and are on a collision course at which both sides will suffer.

 

I am of the wait and see crowd because nothing that I, you or anybody here on TVF can do to change anything so let whatever is going to happen, happen and accept it. You won't be able to change it no matter what Boris or Gina Millar says. 

Wise words

[Patriot1066]

Just now, tebee said:

It probably won't solve the fisherman's problems though 

 

Read this interesting Guardian article 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/11/brexit-uk-fishermen-fishing-industry-quotas-uk-government   

 

    

A more damaging issue, one that transcends national boundaries, is “big” versus “small”. In several EU countries, but most notably in Britain, powerful trawlers and large fishing interests have squeezed out the smaller, more environmentally friendly boats on which local communities depend.

 

None of this is directly “caused” by the existence of the much-maligned EU fisheries policy. Nor is it certain – despite glittering promises by the UK and Scottish governments – that Brexit will bring much relief to coastal fishermen.

Most of factory boats are non UK

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, Stupooey said:

Not sure about that. I seem to remember from my history lessons at school that Hastings was the only battle the English (or British) ever lost. Brexit would be the second.

Bannockburn 1314 (I think)