UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[SheungWan]

1 minute ago, billd766 said:

Italy is deep in debt and the EU says if you don't trim your budget we will fine you even more money. And if they refuse and the EU fines Italy and they don't pay, what next?

Not about fines, but funds. Ask Greece.

[melvinmelvin]

22 minutes ago, billd766 said:

A short quote from the Guardian post.

 

"Last month the European commission took the unprecedented and high-risk step of rejecting the draft budget of the third-biggest economy in the eurozone, in a move designed to force the country’s democratically elected government to rein in its spending.

With borrowing at 130% of gross domestic product, second only to Greece in the EU, Italy is said to be a danger to financial stability across Europe. Its government has been told to come up with a revised financial plan by 13 November, or face huge fines."

 

That seems a brilliant EU plan to me.

 

Italy is deep in debt and the EU says if you don't trim your budget we will fine you even more money. And if they refuse and the EU fines Italy and they don't pay, what next?

 

Bigger and heavier fines perhaps?

 

Suspension or expulsion from the EU.

 

The EU is like a house of cards and one or two cards are being taken away IMHO.

no expulsion,

loss of vote

 

[melvinmelvin]

2 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

no expulsion,

loss of vote

 

and loss of coffee break mates and lunch break mates - thats the only real punishment for screwing a treaty

the courts in Netherlands dont do sanctions

 

 

[mommysboy]

Some more serious allegations.  I wonder how far this will go.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/nov/03/arron-banks-faces-new-claims-of-misleading-mps-over-brexit

[mommysboy]

Meanwhile Ronald's rolling- slow but sure.

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/226071

[mommysboy]

Voters intentions have remained remarkably stable when posed the same questions: if there were an election tomorrow Tories would win, if there was another Brexit it would still be neck and neck, and Scotland would likely still vote to remain in the UK.

 

 

[mommysboy]

Scottish referendum and Brexit.

 

An overwhelming majority do not support an immediate referendum, in fact the majority do not think there should be one in the next few years.

 

http://whatscotlandthinks.org/questions/when-do-you-think-anotherscottish-independencereferendum-should-be-held-asked-a#line

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, SheungWan said:

I thought Brexiteers poo-pooed polls?

Well moaners won't stop quoting them, so why not?

[kwilco]

9 hours ago, mommysboy said:

Some more serious allegations.  I wonder how far this will go.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/nov/03/arron-banks-faces-new-claims-of-misleading-mps-over-brexit

Barron Banks - ex-Brexiteer- - seems to be a guy desperately trying to disengage himself from an inevitable shit storm.

 

In the end all Brexiteers need to be held to account. ..   regardless of whether they recant or not.

[evadgib]

48 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Barron Banks - ex-Brexiteer- - seems to be a guy desperately trying to disengage himself from an inevitable shit storm.

 

In the end all Brexiteers need to be held to account. ..   regardless of whether they recant or not.

The vote stands, furthermore any witch hunt should inc the deliberate disenfranchisement of hundreds of thousands of voters abroad whose ballots were never despatched.

[tebee]

6 minutes ago, evadgib said:

The vote stands, furthermore any witch hunt should inc the deliberate disenfranchisement of hundreds of thousands of voters abroad whose ballots were never despatched.

I live abroad and never got my ballot paper - you can guess which way I would have voted .....

[Jip99]

2 minutes ago, tebee said:

I live abroad and never got my ballot paper - you can guess which way I would have voted .....

 

 

I live abroad and made sure that I voted - you can guess which way I would have voted .....

 

 

[kwilco]

50 minutes ago, evadgib said:

The vote stands, furthermore any witch hunt should inc the deliberate disenfranchisement of hundreds of thousands of voters abroad whose ballots were never despatched.

Britain was a democracy - that means there will be changes - even if Brexit happens - in whatever form, it will eventually be reversed. Those who damaged the country so badly will have to explain themselves to the people - any attempts to set up a facists state will be met with whatever resistance is necessary.

 

BTW - I think your avatar fits the Brexit profile

Edited November 5, 2018 by kwilco

[vogie]

2 hours ago, kwilco said:

Misinformation, fake information and disinformation seem to be the staple diet of the ultra-right Brexiteers....You are what you eat ....they  ingest, digest and excrete this on a daily basis.

 

For instance

Patriotism "the last refuge of a scoundrel" - Samuel Johnson

1066 -  the unification of England and Europe.

 

Just demonstrates how incredibly misinformed these people are.

 

One has to wonder how the UK education system has so terribly failed these people.

 

the last refuge of a scoundrel

It's obvious that English is not your first language, would you say that your education has been a success?

[kwilco]

7 minutes ago, vogie said:

It's obvious that English is not your first language, would you say that your education has been a success?

Sorry did my vocabulary leave you perplexed?

please feel free to post your corrections - or is this just another example of Brexiteer ignorance that now has become a paranoid concern about foreigners instigating a democratic turnaround of their corrupt and contemptuous referendum? 

 

PS - If my English was not my first language, it would be a sorry reflection of your own education that a foreigner speaks it better as a second language than you can as a native

Edited November 5, 2018 by kwilco

[vogie]

1 minute ago, kwilco said:

Sorry did my vocabulary leave you perplexed?

please feel free to post your corrections - or is this just another example of Brexiteer ignorance that now has become concerned  about a democratic turnaround of their corrupt and ridiculous referendum? 

 

PS - If my English was not my first language, it would be a sorry reflection of your own education that a foreigner speaks in better as a second language than you can as a native

Can I ask you again, do you think your education system has let you down. Hope you can answer without your constant ad hominem attacks.

 

But I do have to admit most of your posts leave me very "perplexed", but confused would be a better word methinks, but I just don't think you are perplexing the leavers, judging by the support you get from your remainer friends, they too are completely baffled by your wisdom. ????????????

[kwilco]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

Can I ask you again, do you think your education system has let you down. Hope you can answer without your constant ad hominem attacks.

 

But I do have to admit most of your posts leave me very "perplexed", but confused would be a better word methinks, but I just don't think you are perplexing the leavers, judging by the support you get from your remainer friends, they too are completely baffled by your wisdom. ????????????

As I suspected - you can't answer. - QED

 

I notice too you don't understand synonyms either

 

it is typically this kind of lack of education (did you ever go to secondary school?) that has allowed the far-right to push forward the erroneous concept of Brexit upon the lumpen masses, who have swallowed it like a hungry puppy.

It would seem that the result is as suggested in the OP - a second referendum is needed.

Not the ideal solution but a step in the right direction.

Rather than let a CABAL dictate to the masses, I would consider a general election ( the norm for UK democracy) to be the answer. This cuts out the damages to some extent, allowing MPs, politicians, academics and other individuals throughout the country to put their views on a more focused basis.

 

Would a Brexiteer have the nous to comprehend this?

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by kwilco

[Jip99]

1 hour ago, kwilco said:

Britain was a democracy - that means there will be changes - even if Brexit happens - in whatever form, it will eventually be reversed. Those who damaged the country so badly will have to explain themselves to the people - any attempts to set up a facists state will be met with whatever resistance is necessary.

 

BTW - I think your avatar fits the Brexit profile

 

 

Nonsense - there is no major desire or mandate for Fascism in the UK..... a few extremists will not affect the mainstream political climate.

 

BREXIT will not be reversed and no one (politicians) are accountable to the 'people'.... some may take the brunt of it at the ballot box where they have gone against the majority will of their constituencies.

 

 

I don't think that British politics/politicians (or EU) have come out of this very well at all.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Jip99

[billd766]

13 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

no expulsion,

loss of vote

 

Well the EU cannot afford to expel Italy and if they are not allowed to vote perhaps Italy won't play nicely any more. Then what?

Edited November 5, 2018 by billd766
edited for bad spelling after I had posted it.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, billd766 said:

Well the EU cannot afford to expel Italy and if they are nor allowed to vote perhaps Italy won't play nicely any more. Then what?

Why EU can't afford to expel Italy?

[billd766]

2 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

I live abroad and made sure that I voted - you can guess which way I would have voted .....

 

 

Like you and unlike tebee I also got of my arrrsss and made sure that I could vote and I voted to leave.

 

If you were legally eligible to vote in the UK all you needed to do was to contact the electoral registration officer where you last voted (easily found on Google) and register as an absentee voter.

 

They will ask when you left the UK and if it was more than 15 years before the date of the election then you will be unable to vote.

 

You will be given the choice of a postal vote which should arrive the week before the election date or a proxy vote where you designate another legal voter to vote for you.

Edited November 5, 2018 by billd766
added extra text

[melvinmelvin]

13 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Well the EU cannot afford to expel Italy and if they are not allowed to vote perhaps Italy won't play nicely any more. Then what?

trying to talk sense I guess, often referred to as head banging

 

[billd766]

7 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Why EU can't afford to expel Italy?

Perhaps because it cannot afford to do so. Perhaps because Italy will shut completely their borders and refuse to accept immigrants, and possibly expel the hundreds of thousands that are already there over the borders to EU la la land.

 

If all the EU states play nicely and do as they are told the EU sort of works. But if member states refuse to accept the EU rules then there are big problems for the commission. What then can the commissioners do?

 

Italy refuses to accept that the EU should decide on the Italian budget, Poland refuses to accept an EU ruling about who decides judges retirement age, Germany does not want to pay more into the EU budget when the UK leaves.

 

That is one reason why the Commissioners are bearing down hard on the UK. They cannot understand why we won't play their game any more.

[melvinmelvin]

5 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Perhaps because it cannot afford to do so. Perhaps because Italy will shut completely their borders and refuse to accept immigrants, and possibly expel the hundreds of thousands that are already there over the borders to EU la la land.

 

If all the EU states play nicely and do as they are told the EU sort of works. But if member states refuse to accept the EU rules then there are big problems for the commission. What then can the commissioners do?

 

Italy refuses to accept that the EU should decide on the Italian budget, Poland refuses to accept an EU ruling about who decides judges retirement age, Germany does not want to pay more into the EU budget when the UK leaves.

 

That is one reason why the Commissioners are bearing down hard on the UK. They cannot understand why we won't play their game any more.

you can add,

Hungary and Bulgaria want to sort out immigration by themselves

Sweden want snuff-continuation

 

[rixalex]

As I suspected - you can't answer. - QED
 
I notice too you don't understand synonyms either
 
it is typically this kind of lack of education (did you ever go to secondary school?) that has allowed the far-right to push forward the erroneous concept of Brexit upon the lumpen masses, who have swallowed it like a hungry puppy.
It would seem that the result is as suggested in the OP - a second referendum is needed.
Not the ideal solution but a step in the right direction.
Rather than let a CABAL dictate to the masses, I would consider a general election ( the norm for UK democracy) to be the answer. This cuts out the damages to some extent, allowing MPs, politicians, academics and other individuals throughout the country to put their views on a more focused basis.
 
Would a Brexiteer have the nous to comprehend this?
 

As has been commented on before and as is evidenced in the hate speech above, most of the aggressive, abusive and judgemental behaviour does seem to come from the leave camp, which is strange as they are the ones supposedly arguing in favour of liberal values, unity and accord, and they are the ones throwing around accusations of far right extremism, ignorance and poor education.

Their attitude does though seem to accurately reflect that of their beloved EU. Step out of line or dare to sing from a different hymn sheet and watch as the liberalism mask slips to reveal something a whole lot more sinister.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[tebee]

21 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Like you and unlike tebee I also got of my arrrsss and made sure that I could vote and I voted to leave.

 

If you were legally eligible to vote in the UK all you needed to do was to contact the electoral registration officer where you last voted (easily found on Google) and register as an absentee voter.

 

They will ask when you left the UK and if it was more than 15 years before the date of the election then you will be unable to vote.

 

You will be given the choice of a postal vote which should arrive the week before the election date or a proxy vote where you designate another legal voter to vote for you.

I was registered, my postal ballot never arrived

[Jip99]

1 minute ago, tebee said:

I was registered, my postal ballot never arrived

 

Yeah, yeah!

 

The EU can't even sort out your post.......................unless it was a Brexit conspiracy... ????

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, kwilco said:

As I suspected - you can't answer. - QED

 

I notice too you don't understand synonyms either

 

it is typically this kind of lack of education (did you ever go to secondary school?) that has allowed the far-right to push forward the erroneous concept of Brexit upon the lumpen masses, who have swallowed it like a hungry puppy.

It would seem that the result is as suggested in the OP - a second referendum is needed.

Not the ideal solution but a step in the right direction.

Rather than let a CABAL dictate to the masses, I would consider a general election ( the norm for UK democracy) to be the answer. This cuts out the damages to some extent, allowing MPs, politicians, academics and other individuals throughout the country to put their views on a more focused basis.

 

Would a Brexiteer have the nous to comprehend this?

 

I assume you would exclude any holder of a jean monnet chair from putting their views forward as you know they are all bias and their funding from the EU forbids them from making any negative comments about the EU

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Perhaps because it cannot afford to do so. Perhaps because Italy will shut completely their borders and refuse to accept immigrants, and possibly expel the hundreds of thousands that are already there over the borders to EU la la land.

 

If all the EU states play nicely and do as they are told the EU sort of works. But if member states refuse to accept the EU rules then there are big problems for the commission. What then can the commissioners do?

 

Italy refuses to accept that the EU should decide on the Italian budget, Poland refuses to accept an EU ruling about who decides judges retirement age, Germany does not want to pay more into the EU budget when the UK leaves.

 

That is one reason why the Commissioners are bearing down hard on the UK. They cannot understand why we won't play their game any more.

Why EU can't afford Italy leaving EU? 

 

Nobody wants the Syrian and specially the African economical refugees. As a rather rich continent, it's still fair for EU to help some of these people. Not all naturally.

 

There is a solution done with Turkey. Keep the refugees there. Another one will become perhaps in Northern Africa. 

 

EU wishes to avoid Italy to become much larger Creese. What's wrong with that? Italy has currently a populist government, which like all populist governments are so keen to spend money, without thinking tomorrow and long term plan.

 

If Italians are so stupid that they wish to follow these thugs, I'd say let them follow the thugs, but also pay the price which always comes when following the populist leaders. 

 

I'm also for letting all the anti-vaccine morons to live happily their own separate, isolated communities... and let them take care of their polio infected kids by themselves. I don't see a reason to be a samaritan, who needs to salvage people of themselves. It's far better to let evolution to take care of the problem. 

[billd766]

18 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

you can add,

Hungary and Bulgaria want to sort out immigration by themselves

Sweden want snuff-continuation

 

Sorry, I missed them for some reason.