UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[nontabury]

3 hours ago, Stupooey said:

The main problem with your analysis is that the left wing has traditionally been anti-EU. Think Corbyn. Also those two polar opposites, Tony Benn and Enoch Powell, who were both fiercely opposed to the EEC for, surprisingly, basically the same reason, the erosion of UK Parliamentary Sovereignty. They must be turning in their graves now, to think that Parliament abrogated its responsibilities and put this question to a plebiscite.

As I’ve already posted left winger Tony Benny thoughts on the EEC/EU,

I think it’s only correct that I now post the thoughts of right winger Enoch Powell.

How his prophecies have proven to be correct. I just wish that I had listened to him,as I’m sure many others do.

 

 

 

[Patriot1066]

51 minutes ago, nontabury said:

As I’ve already posted left winger Tony Benny thoughts on the EEC/EU,

I think it’s only correct that I now post the thoughts of right winger Enoch Powell.

How his prophecies have proven to be correct. I just wish that I had listened to him,as I’m sure many others do.

 

 

 

He was correct 100% but the elite just kept giving us more 'new britains'

[kwilco]

It would be comical if it wasn't real, but Brexiteers still don't grasp the reality that they've voted for a flatware. Even if UK left the EU.....The first thing to happen will be the process of repairing the damage and rejoining....... not being in Europe is simply not an option....it is physically, economically and demographically impossible.

 

 

They are in short, flogging a dead horse.

[kwilco]

It would be comical if it wasn't real, but Brexiteers still don't grasp the reality that they've voted for a flatware. Even if UK left the EU.....The first thing to happen will be the process of repairing the damage and rejoining....... not being in Europe is simply not an option....it is physically, economically and demographically impossible.

 

 

They are in short, flogging a dead horse.

 

Brexiteers you are an international embarrassment

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/brexit-shows-that-idiots-and-incompetents-are-in-charge-in-the-uk-1.3693980?fbclid=IwAR2DJYny0Li2r-JolVzc6IWi0VTQquurkLNyLIrRf39j1hmq-0-irIxWajU

[kwilco]

5 hours ago, Patriot1066 said:

He was correct 100% but the elite just kept giving us more 'new britains'

He was 100% incorrect and 100% scum.....people who followed him were sick.

[mogandave]

Ever notice how concerned people are about perceived embarrassment?

I used to discount what I saw, and would tend to believe what I read. That was before I realized the press cares not about the truth, always chooses sides, and generally has an agenda.

I think Britons should worry about Britons, not about what the rest of the world thinks.

[nauseus]

36 minutes ago, kwilco said:

It would be comical if it wasn't real, but Brexiteers still don't grasp the reality that they've voted for a flatware. Even if UK left the EU.....The first thing to happen will be the process of repairing the damage and rejoining....... not being in Europe is simply not an option....it is physically, economically and demographically impossible.

 

 

They are in short, flogging a dead horse.

 

Brexiteers you are an international embarrassment

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/brexit-shows-that-idiots-and-incompetents-are-in-charge-in-the-uk-1.3693980?fbclid=IwAR2DJYny0Li2r-JolVzc6IWi0VTQquurkLNyLIrRf39j1hmq-0-irIxWajU

According to the EU and its fans not being in Europe is simply not an option. We know that.

 

Not so simple when the majority want to leave though, is it? You are consumed as part of Project Fail. 

[Stupooey]

7 hours ago, nontabury said:

As I’ve already posted left winger Tony Benny thoughts on the EEC/EU,

I think it’s only correct that I now post the thoughts of right winger Enoch Powell.

How his prophecies have proven to be correct. I just wish that I had listened to him,as I’m sure many others do.

 

 

 

 

I don't understand your earlier comment that I am "so wrong" about Powell and Benn. I stated that they were both fiercely opposed to joining the EEC. This is borne out in the clips you posted. I also stated that their main objection was that it eroded UK Parliamentary Sovereignty, which Powell confirms in his comments. Benn's clip shows him speaking many years later, with the benefit of hindsight, but in the early 70's his objections were similar to Powell's. They would both have considered a Referendum to be unconstitutional, with Parliament abandoning its responsibilities.

If you saw the Adonis/Hitchens debate, which was posted on here a few days ago, you will have noticed that one of the things they agreed on was that the Referendum should never have happened, for similar reasons to those espoused by Benn and Powell.

[nauseus]

8 hours ago, SheungWan said:

The Hard Brexit team will certainly looking to reverse any agreement reached between the UK and EU on the terms of Brexit.

"Hard Brexit team": something created in the dizzy minds of remainers. I think what you mean is a group of MP's that just want to see the exit from the EU carried out in full but still retaining a reasonable relationship with the EU after that.

 

I do not agree that the HBT will reject any deal out of hand, especially now as it seems quite obvious that the chance of any truly hard Brexit went down the pan ages ago, due to weak leadership and negotiating tactics. 

[Tweedle dee]

8 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

 

I don't understand your earlier comment that I am "so wrong" about Powell and Benn. I stated that they were both fiercely opposed to joining the EEC. This is borne out in the clips you posted. I also stated that their main objection was that it eroded UK Parliamentary Sovereignty, which Powell confirms in his comments. Benn's clip shows him speaking many years later, with the benefit of hindsight, but in the early 70's his objections were similar to Powell's. They would both have considered a Referendum to be unconstitutional, with Parliament abandoning its responsibilities.

If you saw the Adonis/Hitchens debate, which was posted on here a few days ago, you will have noticed that one of the things they agreed on was that the Referendum should never have happened, for similar reasons to those espoused by Benn and Powell.

 

10 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

 

I don't understand your earlier comment that I am "so wrong" about Powell and Benn. I stated that they were both fiercely opposed to joining the EEC. This is borne out in the clips you posted. I also stated that their main objection was that it eroded UK Parliamentary Sovereignty, which Powell confirms in his comments. Benn's clip shows him speaking many years later, with the benefit of hindsight, but in the early 70's his objections were similar to Powell's. They would both have considered a Referendum to be unconstitutional, with Parliament abandoning its responsibilities.

If you saw the Adonis/Hitchens debate, which was posted on here a few days ago, you will have noticed that one of the things they agreed on was that the Referendum should never have happened, for similar reasons to those espoused by Benn and Powell.

Been turning in his grave ever since, RIP Enoch.

[Stupooey]

15 hours ago, billd766 said:

You mean even more insults than Grouse who I believe holds the record for insulting Leavers on this and many other threads.

 

Whoever it is will have to go some to beat that.

 

One man's cliche is another man's insult. I consider 'remoaner' an insult, one which appears over and over again. I consider 'loser' to be more of an insult, with its connotations of being a failure in life. This has been posted repeatedly recently by one poster, along with other similarly snide comments.

And, to reference your first comments, those aren't insults, they're grouses.

[Jip99]

9 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

 

One man's cliche is another man's insult. I consider 'remoaner' an insult, one which appears over and over again. I consider 'loser' to be more of an insult, with its connotations of being a failure in life. This has been posted repeatedly recently by one poster, along with other similarly snide comments.

And, to reference your first comments, those aren't insults, they're grouses.

 

 

Stardom.... you have made Wiktionary...   don't get over-sensitive, Farang is also in there..

 

 

 

A Remainer; One who complains about or rejects the outcome of the 2016 EU referendum on the UK's membership of the European Union.

 

 

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Remoaner

[Jip99]

1 hour ago, kwilco said:

It would be comical if it wasn't real, but Brexiteers still don't grasp the reality that they've voted for a flatware. Even if UK left the EU.....The first thing to happen will be the process of repairing the damage and rejoining....... not being in Europe is simply not an option....it is physically, economically and demographically impossible.

 

 

They are in short, flogging a dead horse.

 

 

You do come out with some clap-trap....

[mogandave]

I could go on if you wish

Please

[sandyf]

9 hours ago, Grouse said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/theresa-may-brexit-latest-wwi-economy-first-world-war-remembrance-a8628551.html

 

This is an interesting bed time read

 

AJP Taylor was a great chap; I wonder what he would have made of Brexit

Quite, the last paragraph is particularly significant.

 

"Yet when we think about Theresa May’s decision to trigger Article 50 in March 2017 – setting the two-year countdown running on our exit from the European Union – before she had even reached agreement within the Conservative Party, let alone the country, over what sort of post-Brexit vision to pursue, it is hard not to hear disturbing echoes of the Taylor thesis of calamity by timetable.

It’s hard not to be reminded of how potentially dangerous are those leaders who have painted themselves, and their countries, into a corner."

 

There was a stark glimpse of reality yesterday, about 70 world leaders at the Arc de Triomphe in Paris and Theresa May in London.

[vogie]

50 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

 

I don't understand your earlier comment that I am "so wrong" about Powell and Benn. I stated that they were both fiercely opposed to joining the EEC. This is borne out in the clips you posted. I also stated that their main objection was that it eroded UK Parliamentary Sovereignty, which Powell confirms in his comments. Benn's clip shows him speaking many years later, with the benefit of hindsight, but in the early 70's his objections were similar to Powell's. They would both have considered a Referendum to be unconstitutional, with Parliament abandoning its responsibilities.

If you saw the Adonis/Hitchens debate, which was posted on here a few days ago, you will have noticed that one of the things they agreed on was that the Referendum should never have happened, for similar reasons to those espoused by Benn and Powell.

Again I am struggling to see your logic, yet again. You correctly stated that Powell and Benn were fiercely opposed to the EEC (Peter Shore also spoke so elequently on about the perils of joining the EEC), why would they be turning in their graves now we are leaving the EU, I would have thought they would be cock-a-hoop and doing cartwheels. 

 

[kwilco]

Just as Hitler hoodwinked the German electorate so too with the UK, ultra-right are trying to seize power.

 

This is illustrated by the extremely disturbing posts here extolling the virtues of Enoch Powell etc the publicity for T .Robinson or whatever his name is.....

 

Just as Hitler had to be resisted then, so now does the hard right and Brexit.

It needs to be stamped out before it goes too far.

[malagateddy]

Just as Hitler hoodwinked the German electorate so too with the UK, ultra-right are trying to seize power.
 
This is illustrated by the extremely disturbing posts here extolling the virtues of Enoch Powell etc the publicity for T .Robinson or whatever his name is.....
 
Just as Hitler had to be resisted then, so now does the hard right and Brexit.
It needs to be stamped out before it goes too far.

Take it you're a member/supporter of "momentum" ..corbyn's ss???

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Just as Hitler hoodwinked the German electorate so too with the UK, ultra-right are trying to seize power.

 

This is illustrated by the extremely disturbing posts here extolling the virtues of Enoch Powell etc the publicity for T .Robinson or whatever his name is.....

 

Just as Hitler had to be resisted then, so now does the hard right and Brexit.

It needs to be stamped out before it goes too far.

If you're not trolling, seriously, you need councelling.

[vogie]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

Quite, the last paragraph is particularly significant.

 

"Yet when we think about Theresa May’s decision to trigger Article 50 in March 2017 – setting the two-year countdown running on our exit from the European Union – before she had even reached agreement within the Conservative Party, let alone the country, over what sort of post-Brexit vision to pursue, it is hard not to hear disturbing echoes of the Taylor thesis of calamity by timetable.

It’s hard not to be reminded of how potentially dangerous are those leaders who have painted themselves, and their countries, into a corner."

 

There was a stark glimpse of reality yesterday, about 70 world leaders at the Arc de Triomphe in Paris and Theresa May in London.

Remind us where Nicola Sturgeon was?

[Stupooey]

57 minutes ago, vogie said:

Again I am struggling to see your logic, yet again. You correctly stated that Powell and Benn were fiercely opposed to the EEC (Peter Shore also spoke so elequently on about the perils of joining the EEC), why would they be turning in their graves now we are leaving the EU, I would have thought they would be cock-a-hoop and doing cartwheels. 

 

For the third time, they would object to the methodology rather than the result. They both believed that Parliament was sovereign, and that MPs would have abused that sovereignty by holding a referendum, which they would have deemed to be unconstitutional.

I was initially merely countering the argument of another poster that left-wing equated to remain. I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition.

[Mosha]

There should be 2 options on the paper if there is a 2nd referendum.

Leave and keep the money

Negotiate withdrawal.

 

The vote to leave won, the only argument should be how.

[mogandave]

Just as Hitler hoodwinked the German electorate so too with the UK, ultra-right are trying to seize power.
 
This is illustrated by the extremely disturbing posts here extolling the virtues of Enoch Powell etc the publicity for T .Robinson or whatever his name is.....
 
Just as Hitler had to be resisted then, so now does the hard right and Brexit.
It needs to be stamped out before it goes too far.

Comparing your political opponents to nazis, classy.

[vogie]

7 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

For the third time, they would object to the methodology rather than the result. They both believed that Parliament was sovereign, and that MPs would have abused that sovereignty by holding a referendum, which they would have deemed to be unconstitutional.

I was initially merely countering the argument of another poster that left-wing equated to remain. I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition.

Tony Benn actually campaigned for the British to hold a referendum in 1975. Doesn't look like he was againgst referendums to me.

It is hardly the Spanish Inquisition someone questioning one of your posts, now is it.

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

51 minutes ago, vogie said:

If you're not trolling, seriously, you need councelling.

 

I have thought the same for weeks now ????. 

Comments such as the below simply confirm it. If one fails to see the stark contrasts between a man as principled as E.Powell and the moral chasm that was A.Hitler then they are clearly in need of a) further investigation into both characters - and - b) a firmer grasp of reality. Powell was clearly an eccentric, but whatever you think of him / his views, he was indeed prophetic, and also a highly intelligent man who put country and honour before career or party, an example that today's politicians are sorely in need of learning from & setting themselves.

 

Side note: I bet the same contextual comparison with Stalin or Mao would never be made by any member of the far left, none of whom ever seem to judge communist dictators/genocides with the same moral compunction. On the contrary, I can recall Dianne (Fl)Abbott, John McDonnell and Jeremy Corbyn expressing overtly apologist sentiments about both of them over the years. Exasperating isn't it?!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

'Just as Hitler hoodwinked the German electorate so too with the UK, ultra-right are trying to seize power.

 

This is illustrated by the extremely disturbing posts here extolling the virtues of Enoch Powell etc the publicity for T .Robinson or whatever his name is.....

 

Just as Hitler had to be resisted then, so now does the hard right and Brexit.

It needs to be stamped out before it goes too far.'

 

- Comrade Kwilco

Edited November 12, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[Stupooey]

13 minutes ago, vogie said:

Tony Benn actually campaigned for the British to hold a referendum in 1975. Doesn't look like he was againgst referendums to me.

It is hardly the Spanish Inquisition someone questioning one of your posts, now is it.

I stand corrected regarding Benn's attitude towards referenda, for once I neglected to do my homework. However, I still adhere to the view that his main objection to the EEC was that it eroded the power of the UK Parliament, and that Powell had similar reservations. They would both be appalled at the way their beloved Parliament is handling the current situation.

[mogandave]

 

I have thought the same for weeks now [emoji6]. 

Comments such as the below simply confirm it. If one fails to see the stark contrasts between a man as principled as E.Powell and the moral chasm that was A.Hitler then they are clearly in need of a) further investigation into both characters - and - b) a firmer grasp of reality. Powell was clearly an eccentric, and whatever you think of him / his views, he was indeed prophetic, and also a highly intelligent man who put country and honour before career or party, an example that today's politicians are sorely in need of learning from & setting themselves.

 

Side note: I bet the same contextual comparison with Stalin or Mao would never be made by any member of the far left, none of whom ever seem to judge communist dictators/genocides with the same moral compunction. On the contrary, I can recall Dianne (Fl)Abbott, John McDonnell and Jeremy Corbyn expressing overtly apologist sentiments about both of them over the years. Exasperating isn't it?!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

'Just as Hitler hoodwinked the German electorate so too with the UK, ultra-right are trying to seize power.

 

This is illustrated by the extremely disturbing posts here extolling the virtues of Enoch Powell etc the publicity for T .Robinson or whatever his name is.....

 

Just as Hitler had to be resisted then, so now does the hard right and Brexit.

It needs to be stamped out before it goes too far.'

 

- Comrade Kwilco

You forgot Castro and Che Guevara, both heroes of the left.

Yeah, when in comes to human slaughter, nothing comes close to the left. You have to crack eggs to make omelettes....

Now they’ll bring up the crusades yet the numbers were virtually insignificant compared to the tens or hundreds of millions their heroes murdered.

“Truth is not a left wing value.”

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

40 minutes ago, vogie said:

Tony Benn actually campaigned for the British to hold a referendum in 1975. Doesn't look like he was againgst referendums to me.

It is hardly the Spanish Inquisition someone questioning one of your posts, now is it.

 

Exactly. Furthermore E.Powell crossed the floor to join the opposition (Lab) who were, at the time, the party for an 'Independent Britain' (ironic, huh?) once he understood that Heath's (& his own) Tory government were committed to staying in the EU. I'd wager both Benn and Powell would be very happy with the 2016 result for democratic reasons, and at the same time contemptuous of both the snakes in Parliament who are seeking to subvert it and the current government's ineptitude in delivering it.    

 

Edited November 12, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[Stupooey]

2 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

You forgot Castro and Che Guevara, both heroes of the left.

Yeah, when in comes to human slaughter, nothing comes close to the left. You have to crack eggs to make omelettes....

Now they’ll bring up the crusades yet the numbers were virtually insignificant compared to the tens or hundreds of millions their heroes murdered.

“Truth is not a left wing value.”

 

 

We all agree that there are right-wing monsters and left-wing monsters. The type of shared sovereignty espoused by the EU prevents such dictators having a free reign. Opposition to the EU has over the years been mainly restricted to the Tory right and Labour left, which is a major reason the UK has allowed the EU to be dominated by Germany and France, as successive UK Governments have had to pander to their respective wings. 

[mogandave]

The type of shared sovereignty espoused by the EU prevents such dictators having a free reign.

Such dictators as Ali Khamenei and Mahmoud Abbas or dictators like Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu?

You guys crack me up.