UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

The Brexit Short: How Hedge Funds Used Private Polls to Make Millions

"Private polls—and a timely ‘concession’ from the face of Leave—allowed the funds to make millions off the pound’s collapse."

Hiya RR, where ya bin. 

 

Yes been down that road in the past, its been explained about JRM if people choose not to believe it, up to them. ????

[talahtnut]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

A man with class, who says it better than anyone else.

 

 

Anyone plotting against the firm they work for, would face

instant dismissal.  The NWO takes another small step forward.

[RuamRudy]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

Hiya RR, where ya bin. 

Hi Vogie - I spent the last week soaking in the hot springs of Beppu and hunting for the best ramen in town. Did I miss anything interesting?

 

8 minutes ago, vogie said:

Yes been down that road in the past, its been explained about JRM if people choose not to believe it, up to them. ????

Ah yes, the argument without end...

Rees-Mogg is a very divisive character - just how he manages to rally so many proles to his corner is a constant source of wonderment (and a not inconsiderable amount of despair) to me. 

[aright]

32 minutes ago, vogie said:

I think the remainers and their friends are getting very desperate when they have to make things up.

I can feel the glee in the lines of many Remainers when they comment on the predicament the country finds itself in, regarding it as a battle won. They gloat over Mrs May's dilemma and yet logically they should feel as betrayed as the Leavers. They seem to prefer to take pleasure that we (the Leavers) haven't got what we wanted even though they haven't got what they wanted either. 

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, aright said:

I can feel the glee in the lines of many Remainers when they comment on the predicament the country finds itself in, regarding it as a battle won. They gloat over Mrs May's dilemma and yet logically they should feel as betrayed as the Leavers. They seem to prefer to take pleasure that we (the Leavers) haven't got what we wanted even though they haven't got what they wanted either. 

I still think there might be a sting in the tail yet aright.

[melvinmelvin]

28 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Hi Vogie - I spent the last week soaking in the hot springs of Beppu and hunting for the best ramen in town. Did I miss anything interesting?

 

Ah yes, the argument without end...

Rees-Mogg is a very divisive character - just how he manages to rally so many proles to his corner is a constant source of wonderment (and a not inconsiderable amount of despair) to me. 

I am worse off than you,

I struggle to understand why Tory attracts so massive support.

 

[vogie]

1 minute ago, melvinmelvin said:

I am worse off than you,

I struggle to understand why Tory attracts so massive support.

 

Have you seen the opposition, however bad May is the country still has more faith in her than JC.

[turgid]

My sense is there will more likely be an election than a vote. The data points for me on this are

 

2012 Scottish Independence referendum approved by UK government  provided it is "fair, legal and decisive"

2014  Euro elections: UK voted for a UKIP majority - low turnout (35%) but sort of proves that nobody really cared about being an EU member then and the people who did wanted to leave.

2014 Scottish Referendum:  Vote to stay in the UK

2015 UK Election:  People voted for a  referendum on EU membership - didn't seem to care much

2016 Referendum: People voted to leave the EU (but nobody had planned for what that meant )

2017 UK Election: There was no swing to either the SNP, LibDems or Greens who were the only real Remain options. There was a swing to Labour but that seemed to come as much from the UKIP as it did the Conservatives.

 

While the liberal media despises  brexiters I'm still unconvinced that reflects the person in the street.   May will probably go - crisis managers  don't usually survive the crisis -  that might force an election. If there is an election a leave deal will be part of both major parties manifesto.  But as historically  brexiters seem much more likely to consolidate around a party than remainers  I dont see an election as a good thing for remainers.

 

The irony in all of this for me is if the Remainers  do get their way 26 EU countries will be told what they are doing by  the Germans and  the UK will independently vote.  Which is what Brexiters want and Remainers are against.

 

 

 

[baboon]

29 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Ah yes, the argument without end...

Rees-Mogg is a very divisive character - just how he manages to rally so many proles to his corner is a constant source of wonderment (and a not inconsiderable amount of despair) to me. 

You can say that again.

Whether one's politics are to the right or to the left, I am absolutely flummoxed as to how or why the working class (wo)man would possibly think the likes of Rees-Mogg or Boris Johnson have their back. If I live to see 100 I will never understand it...

[malagateddy]

Me..imo..May falls on her sword followed by Brexiteer as PM.
1 quick meeting with Barnier followed by No Deal

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[baboon]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

Have you seen the opposition, however bad May is the country still has more faith in her than JC.

Only just. Don't forget the current government had to team up with the DUP in order to form a majority...

[vogie]

1 minute ago, baboon said:

You can say that again.

Whether one's politics are to the right or to the left, I am absolutely flummoxed as to how or why the working class (wo)man would possibly think the likes of Rees-Mogg or Boris Johnson have their back. If I live to see 100 I will never understand it...

Many would question the attraction of JC, DA and of course JM. 

[baboon]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

Many would question the attraction of JC, DA and of course JM. 

Understandably so. However I stand by what I said and am trying not to make a party political point.

[vogie]

Just now, baboon said:

Only just. Don't forget the current government had to team up with the DUP in order to form a majority...

Yes, May to blame again, to say she messed up the General Election would be an understatement. JC and the rest of the Marxist movement should be history. When she needed the support of the country she decided to up taxes, mess about with the pensions whilst J Corbyn was offering free everything (Corbynomics). She listened to her advisors, who was promptly sacked after the election, she has been the worst PM in history (probably), she has lied and not fulfilled her promises.

Now she won't listen to anybody, I just hope for the countrys sake she is replaced very soon, but in the back of my mind, I fear she will linger on.

[baboon]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

Yes, May to blame again, to say she messed up the General Election would be an understatement. JC and the rest of the Marxist movement should be history. When she needed the support of the country she decided to up taxes, mess about with the pensions whilst J Corbyn was offering free everything (Corbynomics). She listened to her advisors, who was promptly sacked after the election, she has been the worst PM in history (probably), she has lied and not fulfilled her promises.

Now she won't listen to anybody, I just hope for the countrys sake she is replaced very soon, but in the back of my mind, I fear she will linger on.

Can't stand the woman either. But to get back on topic, I still support her Brexit deal. Sure, it pleases nobody, but what else can one expect when the country is so deeply polarised?

And before you ask, no, I don't think Jeremy Corbyn could have made a better job of it.

[melvinmelvin]

23 minutes ago, vogie said:

Have you seen the opposition, however bad May is the country still has more faith in her than JC.

have

don't fall into the trap of mixing long term policies and current short term leader

there are ways and means that Labour could be given the tiller without JC steering

 

[melvinmelvin]

1 minute ago, baboon said:

Can't stand the woman either. But to get back on topic, I still support her Brexit deal. Sure, it pleases nobody, but what else can one expect when the country is so deeply polarised?

And before you ask, no, I don't think Jeremy Corbyn could have made a better job of it.

maybe not,

I think an interesting question is,

 

would the deal look the same today if Tory enjoyed a clear majority without any DUP support?

 

[tebee]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/15/world/europe/brexit-theresa-may.html#click=https://t.co/z6aOsHdJiM

[mogandave]

You seemed to have overlooked the 700 or so million in a single market. 
At the end of the day if you have a problem selling your product other factors become insignificant. Exactly why manufacturers may move out in the first place.

Having the market of 70 million is nothing to sneeze at, particularly in a relatively affluent population.

Anyone that thinks big-business is going to throw a market that size away out of spite is not thinking clearly.

I worked for a Fortune 50 company that put a plant in Thailand just to serve the domestic market, a much smaller market than the UK.

[tebee]

The real causes of Brexit....

 

And the Australian has spotted something of how Britain has changed this decade. George Orwell is among those who once sang of this country’s “gentleness” and its sense of fair play.

 

What Alston has seen is a society now visiting tremendous violence on its poorest members: those with disabilities, women in poverty, asylum seekers and children. The connection between the brutality of our economic system and the callous, careerist chaos of Brexit Westminster is all too easy to see.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/16/epitaph-theresa-may-goverment-damning-un-report

[tebee]

Brexit is going the way of Communism. Its supporters will forever say it would have worked if only it had been executed properly

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

have

don't fall into the trap of mixing long term policies and current short term leader

there are ways and means that Labour could be given the tiller without JC steering

 

I have no problem with Labour, Labour have some fine MPs, I would struggle to find any in JCs cabinet at the moment. Don't forget when JC was voted in to the leaders job, nobody but nobody wanted to work with him, only misfits Dianne Abbott and John Mcdonnall.

Do not forget JC has been saying for all his political career how much he hates the EU, now all of a sudden he's a born again europhile, "all brexit options are on the table" I just wonder sometimes if he is being worked from behind by Kier Starmer.

[melvinmelvin]

8 minutes ago, vogie said:

I have no problem with Labour, Labour have some fine MPs, I would struggle to find any in JCs cabinet at the moment. Don't forget when JC was voted in to the leaders job, nobody but nobody wanted to work with him, only misfits Dianne Abbott and John Mcdonnall.

Do not forget JC has been saying for all his political career how much he hates the EU, now all of a sudden he's a born again europhile, "all brexit options are on the table" I just wonder sometimes if he is being worked from behind by Kier Starmer.

many UKers feel like that, that is why I said

 

there are ways and means that Labour could be given the tiller without JC steering

 

[Neeranam]

Ok sick of listening to those who want to let the people vote again.

Shut up you bad losers, the vote happened,  you lost, let's get on with it. 

[transam]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

Ok sick of listening to those who want to let the people vote again.

Shut up you bad losers, the vote happened,  you lost, let's get on with it. 

We have moved on since that stuff chap...☺️

[vogie]

Just now, melvinmelvin said:

many UKers feel like that, that is why I said

 

there are ways and means that Labour could be given the tiller without JC steering

 

They would still be voting for JC, the UK is still very orientated by the leaders charisma, but having said that, the young appear to find him very charismatic, they believe everything he says, troubling times.????

[tebee]

17 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

Having the market of 70 million is nothing to sneeze at, particularly in a relatively affluent population.

Anyone that thinks big-business is going to throw a market that size away out of spite is not thinking clearly.

I worked for a Fortune 50 company that put a plant in Thailand just to serve the domestic market, a much smaller market than the UK.
 

 

70 million people with vastly reduced economic stature ....

 

One quarter of young people will consider leaving Britain after brexit because of the reduced prospects there - the ones that go will be the ones that we need, those with the very same skills we need to rebuild the economy . 

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/young-may-head-for-exit-after-brexit-gssv3fmsk

 

The survey found a sharp generational divide in attitudes, with the 18-34 age group consistently more pessimistic about post-Brexit opportunities. About 43 per cent of younger workers said they believed that high-skilled job opportunities would move from the UK to the EU after Brexit, while only 19 per cent disagreed. 

 

Mark Brownridge, director-general of the EISA, said: “Any policy that prevents moving across the globe for work would be detrimental for UK small businesses, so it is a priority for the government to ensure that free movement of travel across borders is maintained.”

[baboon]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

Ok sick of listening to those who want to let the people vote again.

Shut up you bad losers, the vote happened,  you lost, let's get on with it. 

We are getting on with it. Trouble is that nobody can decide what 'getting on with it' actually means in practice...

[tebee]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

They would still be voting for JC, the UK is still very orientated by the leaders charisma, but having said that, the young appear to find him very charismatic, they believe everything he says, troubling times.????

And the old believed everything the brexiters said,,..

 

troubling times indeed

[vogie]

1 minute ago, tebee said:

And the old believed everything the brexiters said,,..

 

troubling times indeed

I refer the honourable gentleman to my tin of beans post.????