UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[vinny41]

5 minutes ago, sandyf said:

I  originally said "single export" and I have already said I used the top 200 figure, what exactly are you finding so difficult.

and from your own link "The following searchable table displays 200 of the most in-demand goods shipped from the United Kingdom during 2017.

Most in demand is different from Largest export commodities of the United Kingdom (UK) in 2017 (in million GBP

But at least both stats do agree that Machinery including computers: US$68 billion (15.3% of total exports) is the largest export item

[dick dasterdly]

18 minutes ago, sandyf said:

There is no constructive argument for leaving the EU. If there was, why is Theresa May so wound up about the future trading relationship with an entity that is about to implode.

 

There can be no better deal on the table than the one available as a member of the EU.

We've been over and over the same arguments from both sides as to why brexit is good or bad.

 

As for "why is Theresa May so wound up about the future trading relationship with an entity that is about to implode." - it's yet another discussion that has been argued time and time again....

 

As far as I can make out May's 'agreement' means remaining within the current eu relationship - e.g. not possible to make deals with other countries?  And paying 39bn (for what, precisely??) for the privilege of doing so....

 

Have to admit that I haven't read the 'agreement' though, and would be interested to learn whether it means the uk will no longer pay into the eu after the 39bn payment.

Edited November 17, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[talahtnut]

17 minutes ago, sandyf said:

There is no constructive argument for leaving the EU. If there was, why is Theresa May so wound up about the future trading relationship with an entity that is about to implode.

 

There can be no better deal on the table than the one available as a member of the EU.

Not everyone would agree with that, Felixtowe, the port I use

has already seen a 10% growth in non EU trade, and is extending

berthing capacity.

Its usually good to widen ones horizons beyond the back garden.

[dick dasterdly]

16 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Absolutely nothing to do with "preferred targets". You have to be registered with YouGov and you get paid to do it, not a lot, takes me about 2 years to get £50.

Before you say anything I am not commenting on the validity of said polls.

Says it all ☹️. 

 

"You have to be registered with YouGov"

[tebee]

12 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

....

 

Have to admit that I haven't read the 'agreement' though, and would be interested to learn whether it means the uk will no longer pay into the eu after the 39bn payment.

£39 million is for our existing commitments to the end of the current spending round.

 

Agreement does not specify our future relationship -this is still to be decided and depending on that our future contributions will be decided - we need pay for using things like common standards and Joint use of agencies.

 

There will be a (infinite?) transition period first - everything will stay the same including our level of contributions. 

[talahtnut]

11 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Says it all ☹️. 

 

"You have to be registered with YouGov"

And paid...Government bribery and corruption afoot!

[Stupooey]

2 hours ago, tebee said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/15/world/europe/brexit-theresa-may.html#click=https://t.co/z6aOsHdJiM

So what started five years or so ago as a Tory party squabble has, interrupted only by an indecisive plebiscite, turned into a Tory party squabble. There's progress for you...

[Stupooey]

Interesting that May compares herself to Geoffrey Boycott. He may have eventually got the runs, but wasn't he generally in the end dismissed, often after having run out some of his partners along the way? Perhaps she knows something we only suspect.

[dick dasterdly]

8 minutes ago, tebee said:

£39 million is for our existing commitments to the end of the current spending round.

 

Agreement does not specify our future relationship -this is still to be decided and depending on that our future contributions will be decided - we need pay for using things like common standards and Joint use of agencies.

 

There will be a (infinite?) transition period first - everything will stay the same including our level of contributions. 

I'm looking forward to reading how those 'commitments' were calculated to arrive at a figure of 39bn.....

 

"There will be a (infinite?) transition period first - everything will stay the same including our level of contributions."

 

Precisely - leave in name only.... Edit - PLUS a 39bn payment to the eu!

Edited November 17, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[beautifulthailand99]

Mogg said he would leave the UK if we didn't 'leave', in his terms the draft isn't leaving in any meaningful sense so if it gets through can he and his spawn do the decent thing and sling his hook and follow his hedge fund to Dublin where he can spout British exceptionalism to the natives to his heart's content. That will go down well. 

[Srikcir]

4 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'm looking forward to reading how those 'commitments' were calculated to arrive at a figure of 39bn..

A starting point:

https://qz.com/1134703/brexit-divorce-bill-explained-why-the-uk-needs-to-pay-the-eu-to-leave/

[beautifulthailand99]

3 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'm looking forward to reading how those 'commitments' were calculated to arrive at a figure of 39bn.....

 

"There will be a (infinite?) transition period first - everything will stay the same including our level of contributions."

 

Precisely - leave in name only....

Exactly in the end as I predicted about 400 pages ago I said we would remain, the great unwashed wouldn't be allowed to drive the Bentley they thought they had just bought. I shall be selling Ollie Robbins calendars with a month missing to represent what we have a all lost in the end. The leaving stickers should have 20XX on them and then some angry statement. If the gammon riots as a consequence then it'll be bacon for them. It's not about winning the battle but the war in the end. 

[talahtnut]

5 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'm looking forward to reading how those 'commitments' were calculated to arrive at a figure of 39bn.....

 

"There will be a (infinite?) transition period first - everything will stay the same including our level of contributions."

 

Precisely - leave in name only....

The figure of 39bn is calculated precisely to put the 'wind up' in anyone else thinking of leaving.

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

And paid...Government bribery and corruption afoot!

I believe that website has nothing to do with any government. 

 

It's a company which creates online polls and sells the data to medias.

 

"At the heart of our company is a global online community, where millions of people and thousands of political, cultural and commercial organisations engage in a continuous conversation about their beliefs, behaviours and brands."

[beautifulthailand99]

One for Nonatabury to share on his timeline....

 

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

One for Nonatabury to share on his timeline....

 

Do people with money make you feel inadequate.

[mogandave]

I’ve met a few rich people and they mostly seemed okay to me.

I’ve met a lot of a-holes that were skint...

[AlexRich]

On 8/10/2018 at 7:11 AM, Bluespunk said:

And I think if people want a final vote on the final deal that is in place before brexit is done, then they should have one. 

 

At least this time people will have a better idea of the consequences of brexit.

 

Why so scared?

 

You must be sure you’ll win again. 

 

This one made me laugh. You hear it over and over again from Brexit zealots ... a new vote would have the same result ... but then argue that it should not be allowed. What are they so scared of? A leave vote would end the debate once and for all, and if they are so confident of winning they should be champing at the bit to do it, right? 

 

If May’s plan is rejected the choice will be a new vote or an election ... one that a divided Tory party will surely lose. So a second referendum it is ... by rejecting May’s deal control goes back to Parliament. 

[beautifulthailand99]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

Do people with money make you feel inadequate.

I have money and am pretty well off - retired good pension and savings , but what I don't like seeing is the worse off getting stuffed by an elite for their own personal ends. Those four are playing fast and loose with the stability and resilience of the UK for the sake of their own egos and / or wealth.  You expats in Thailand have got it first vis-a-vis exchange rate I'm surprised that anyone with any nous doesn't get that we had the best deal remaining in (50 baht I'd be very happy with that now ) - all others make us all collectively worse off. That said Johnson is the worse of the snakes - he jumped ship at the last moment after calculating what would advantage him. Oh and Cameron let's remember who opened the bloody Pandora's box...

[AlexRich]

10 minutes ago, vogie said:

Do people with money make you feel inadequate.

No, angry that those who want a no deal Brexit are happy to see others suffer ... whilst they are cashing in on the chaos they have wrought.

[beautifulthailand99]

Anyway May has seen off Mogg's palace revolution.......and I can't believe I'm writing this but I'm backing her..."I have sent my letter" - that went well......

Edited November 17, 2018 by beautifulthailand99

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

I have money and am pretty well off - retired good pension and savings , but what I don't like seeing is the worse off getting stuffed by an elite for their own personal ends. Those four are playing fast and loose with the stability and resilience of the UK for the sake of their own egos and / or wealth.  You expats in Thailand have got it first vis-a-vis exchange rate I'm surprised that anyone with any nous doesn't get that we had the best deal remaining in (50 baht I'd be very happy with that now ) - all others make us all collectively worse off. That said Johnson is the worse of the snakes - he jumped ship at the last moment after calculating what would advantage him. Oh and Cameron let's remember who opened the bloody Pandora's box...

So how does that work then, it's ok for you to have money, but nobody else, or is it the people that has more money than you, you totally abhor.

Brexit is not about the rate of exchange we expats receive in Thailand, although I know it is not nice losing money.

Would I be correct that by the way you overly vent your spleen on here you are a JC supporter?

[beautifulthailand99]

I have no problem with rich people some of my friends are pretty wealthy indeed - not a Brexiteer amongst them though strangely enough. JC would probably cost me dear though I like the man personally - he seems to be a man of integrity. Brexiteers should be aware the more they destabilize the UK with their shenanigans the more like it is we could see a Corbyn government and what little wealth you may have may well go into the wringer and a pound at maybe 30 baht. That ought to concentrate minds and hearts. These days the less time I spend in Thailand the better so the baht isn't my major concern. 

[vogie]

37 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

No, angry that those who want a no deal Brexit are happy to see others suffer ... whilst they are cashing in on the chaos they have wrought.

Have you got a link on these 4 MPs as to how they are cashing in on the chaos, or are you speculating Alex?

Edited November 17, 2018 by vogie

[Stupooey]

48 minutes ago, vogie said:

Do people with money make you feel inadequate.

One thing I have learnt from life is that people with too much money invariably want more of it.

[beautifulthailand99]

The Mail now Dacre's gone packing is hugely pro May today - time to get behind her , realise the narcissists rebellion lies in tatters and this bar a few minor concessions is the best deal we can get. All good patriots should get behind her lest we get something far worse. 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-6399741/DOMINIC-SANDBROOK-Iron-Lady-wouldnt-got-better-deal.html

 

Mr Rees-Mogg and his cronies may welcome the prospect of a no-deal Brexit. But they are precisely the people who claimed that the EU would roll over in the negotiations. They were wrong then. Why should they be right this time?

In reality, a no-deal Brexit would be an economic and political calamity worse than the Winter of Discontent in the Seventies, worse than the three-day week and potentially even more damaging than the Great Depression.

A chaotic Brexit would also risk handing power to Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell, who would seize the chance to send Britain lurching to the far Left, with horrific and irreparable consequences for millions of ordinary families, as well as for our global reputation, international allies and the future of our economy.

[nontabury]

3 hours ago, tebee said:

70 million people with vastly reduced economic stature ....

 

One quarter of young people will consider leaving Britain after brexit because of the reduced prospects there - the ones that go will be the ones that we need, those with the very same skills we need to rebuild the economy . 

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/young-may-head-for-exit-after-brexit-gssv3fmsk

 

The survey found a sharp generational divide in attitudes, with the 18-34 age group consistently more pessimistic about post-Brexit opportunities. About 43 per cent of younger workers said they believed that high-skilled job opportunities would move from the UK to the EU after Brexit, while only 19 per cent disagreed. 

 

Mark Brownridge, director-general of the EISA, said: “Any policy that prevents moving across the globe for work would be detrimental for UK small businesses, so it is a priority for the government to ensure that free movement of travel across borders is maintained.”

No problem with that. Even N Farage agrees that we should allow those with the required skills, be allowed into the country. But not an open boarder. 

Regarding immigration, we should have copied the Australian system, unfortunately we do not have political leader in the U.K that ???????? possesses.

We just keep regurgitating Neville Chamberlin. 

 

an Englishwoman who lived in Berlin during the First World War, in her memoir published in 1921, recalled hearing German general Erich Ludendorff praise the British for their bravery and remembered hearing firsthand the following statement from the German General Headquarters (Grosses Hauptquartier): "The English Generals are wanting in strategy. We should have no chance if they possessed as much science as their officers and men had of courage and bravery. They are lions led by donkeys."^[12]

 

^{100+ yrs, and nothing has changed.}

[nontabury]

3 hours ago, baboon said:

We are getting on with it. Trouble is that nobody can decide what 'getting on with it' actually means in practice...

 

Disagree, the people democratically voted to leave the E.U. Not a soft exit,and not a hard exit, just leave. Unfortunately as was the case in the R of I, and France,the Netherlands their vote has been overriden by the establishment,able supported by those who have allowed themselves to be indoctrinated.

 

 

Edited November 17, 2018 by nontabury

[dunroaming]

7 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

The Mail now Dacre's gone packing is hugely pro May today - time to get behind her , realise the narcissists rebellion lies in tatters and this bar a few minor concessions is the best deal we can get. All good patriots should get behind her lest we get something far worse. 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-6399741/DOMINIC-SANDBROOK-Iron-Lady-wouldnt-got-better-deal.html

 

Mr Rees-Mogg and his cronies may welcome the prospect of a no-deal Brexit. But they are precisely the people who claimed that the EU would roll over in the negotiations. They were wrong then. Why should they be right this time?

In reality, a no-deal Brexit would be an economic and political calamity worse than the Winter of Discontent in the Seventies, worse than the three-day week and potentially even more damaging than the Great Depression.

A chaotic Brexit would also risk handing power to Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell, who would seize the chance to send Britain lurching to the far Left, with horrific and irreparable consequences for millions of ordinary families, as well as for our global reputation, international allies and the future of our economy.

A good friend of mine works for the Daily Mail and it is true that with the new man in place they are taking a much softer approach to May and the Brexit issue.  As you can imagine there are some at the paper who are very upset by this change of direction and some (like my friend) who welcome it.

[Stupooey]

6 minutes ago, nontabury said:

No problem with that. Even N Farage agrees that we should allow those with the required skills, be allowed into the country. But not an open boarder. 

Regarding immigration, we should have copied the Australian system, unfortunately we do not have political leader in the U.K that ???????? possesses.

We just keep regurgitating Neville Chamberlin. 

 

an Englishwoman who lived in Berlin during the First World War, in her memoir published in 1921, recalled hearing German general Erich Ludendorff praise the British for their bravery and remembered hearing firsthand the following statement from the German General Headquarters (Grosses Hauptquartier): "The English Generals are wanting in strategy. We should have no chance if they possessed as much science as their officers and men had of courage and bravery. They are lions led by donkeys."^[12]

 

^{100+ yrs, and nothing has changed.}

The fact that these "lions" keep voting for "donkeys" doesn't say much for the UK electorate.