UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[Johnyo]

It’s disgusting our people starve whilst we feed the world.

 

And the EU just treat us like their big fault piggy bank.

 

 

They starve because they are lazy drunks with as many children as possible in order to claim benefits and can’t be bothered to do a hard days graft.

 

 

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[Grouse]

6 minutes ago, Johnyo said:

They starve because they are lazy drunks with as many children as possible in order to claim benefits and can’t be bothered to do a hard days graft.

 

 

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Bah! Humbug! 

 

Compliments if the season Mr Scrooge!

[bomber]

23 minutes ago, Grouse said:

It'll be a plastic American one.

no Don wont let us buy them,no problem Don china has plenty

[tebee]

Robert Peston has posted on Facebook about why senior Labour people tell him Corbyn will come out in favour of a People’s Vote sooner than you might expect

[mommysboy]

48 minutes ago, Johnyo said:

They starve because they are lazy drunks with as many children as possible in order to claim benefits and can’t be bothered to do a hard days graft.

 

 

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Nice!

[Grouse]

52 minutes ago, tebee said:

Robert Peston has posted on Facebook about why senior Labour people tell him Corbyn will come out in favour of a People’s Vote sooner than you might expect

????

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

now, if 300 Tory and Labour MPs would like the assembly to adopt a piece of legislation,

they would either need a PM nod or to ditch the government?

There is nothing to stop any MP from going into the Aye or Nay lobbies over any piece of legislation irrespective of the respective Party Whip. However, there are consequences for that individual MP. The same applies to groups of MPs. However, 300 cannot come together to propose legislation without going through the PM. And no PM is going to accept. Alternatively, if the Government is brought down and the new party of 300 wants to be the government, they will have to go through a general election and that will probably be the end of them. Other conditions apply when there is a National Government, but that's another story.

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

ta,

by all means, I do understand the roles of the assembly and the cabinet

I was more after the formalities here - not looking at practical possibilities in today's UK political climate

Pointless looking at the formal without considering the practice, and of little relevance in a thread of this type. One should also note that UK constitutional niceties have evolved over a period of time and not enshrined in one single formal document.

[sandyf]

14 hours ago, vogie said:

Baroness Trumpington and leaver has died, she would have made a great negotiator for Brexit.

 

 

Just goes to show, there is always common ground somewhere.

She was invited to appear on the  'Have I got news for you' programme six years ago, during the programme she said she had been asked to sign a declaration that she wasn't pregnant.

Yes, would have felt at home in the brexit negotiations.

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, bomber said:

sounds like it will be organised chaos,so lets say toyota are importing parts from CZ/poland/Slovakia which we know they do for their derby factory,they wont have a clue what tariff will be imposed if anything at all,a truck/van could sail through one day and get clobbered the next no wonder they have been pulling their teeth out,you cannot run a huge operation like that in this way,deal or no deal they wont be staying in the UK for much longer thats for sure.I would pack my bags and go,much cheaper labour with less hassle and without a channel to cross in central/eastern europe.

It will be exactly as what happens now, export invoices must carry a commodity code, the US calls it a Harmonised Code, which will determine the tariff to be applied. Currently products from the EU are zero rated so the code is only used for statistics. The UK has applied to use the EU tariff schedule.

Currently there is nothing to be gained by using an incorrect commodity code.

 

Why do I need a commodity code?

When you import goods to the UK, you will be charged duty at customs. This charge is calculated as a percentage of your product’s value. Your duty rating directs how much you will have to pay Customs when you import; HMRC requires you to declare your product’s commodity code to them in order for them to classify your product and give it an accurate duty rating.

For this reason, it is imperative that you find your correct product code. If you declare your goods incorrectly, then your goods are liable to be held by customs and you’ll run into far larger costs and fines than what you would be paying if your goods were correctly declared.

https://www.shippo.co.uk/tips-and-tricks/how-to-find-your-products-commodity-code-on-the-uk-trade-tariff/

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

17 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

so,

the Labour party MPs cannot propose a bill/act to parliament?

neither can LibDem or Tory?

 

think something is missing here

 

They could do, but it will take too long to draft / vote on + approve, and then of course, enact such a bill. 29th March is only 4 months away now, 2nd referendum looks increasingly unlikely as the possibility of it even being required won't be known until mid December anyway, so that would mean the courts and parliament would have just 3 1/2 months to contrive all of the above. As time ticks by the possibility diminishes.

Edited November 28, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

19 hours ago, vinny41 said:

For anyone that isn't a Liberal Lefty Luvvies Mike Harding is

Stand up comic / folk singer / poet / playwright / internet radio presenter and male stripper...

...and clearly a neurotic old softy, who's sold out - completing the transformation from working class Manc lad to pro-globalist champagne socialist. Pretty quick to forget his working class routes - and of course the reasons for people, in a position once similar to his own, to vote the way they did, in both Lab and Cons constituencies. He's simply aiding and abetting the biased MSM, then rightfully admonishing May (not Tory voters), but simultaneously sneering at over half of his compatriots for precisely nothing. 

Edited November 28, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[rixalex]

...and clearly a neurotic old softy, who's sold out - completing the transformation from working class Manc lad to pro-globalist champagne socialist. Pretty quick to forget his working class routes - and of course the reasons for people, in a position once similar to his own, to vote the way they did, in both Lab and Cons constituencies. He's simply aiding and abetting the biased MSM, then rightfully admonishing May (not Tory voters), but simultaneously sneering at over half of his compatriots for precisely nothing. 

Funny also how he and his fellow remainers are so angry that the Tories allowed the people to decide on the matter in a referendum, and would have preferred if Parliament had simply gone on ignoring the will of the people and had we never had the referendum in first place.

Then, in their next breath, they are arguing how we need another referendum as the will of the people must be heard and as the people don't support Brexit.

These people's heads must be spinning so hard it's a wonder they can get dressed in the morning.

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[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

40 minutes ago, rixalex said:

Funny also how he and his fellow remainers are so angry that the Tories allowed the people to decide on the matter in a referendum, and would have preferred if Parliament had simply gone on ignoring the will of the people and had we never had the referendum in first place.

Then, in their next breath, they are arguing how we need another referendum as the will of the people must be heard and as the people don't support Brexit.

These people's heads must be spinning so hard it's a wonder they can get dressed in the morning.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Well yeh, quite!

 

'Mental gymnastics' doesn't do it justice!

He sounds like just another former member of the working/middle class who has risen to a position of certain privilege and on arrival has immediately forgotten the issues, complaints and viewpoint of the demographic he used to belong to. Generally speaking of course, as people in different areas will experience the big issues that precipitated Brexit by gradations, however Harding seems to be incredulous of over half the population and clearly livid with May and the Tories for allowing the oiks and the underclass to have their say, yet in the same breath, as you pointed out, he advocates this fallacious 2nd referendum - for 'the people' - pray tell, who took part in the first? Woodland critters? ???? 

 

Embarrassing isn't it? Never a clearer case of a manchild throwing his toys outa the pram, oh well, he is in good company back home, so it seems. 

Preaching about democracy whilst simultaneously attempting to reverse it - hypocrite is an understatement. I feel a little more comfortable and assured than in recent months, that he and his fellow bad-sports, will not get their 2nd ref. Simply isn't the time for it now, I'd wager. 

Edited November 28, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

18 hours ago, vogie said:

Baroness Trumpington and leaver has died, she would have made a great negotiator for Brexit.

 

 

She would have wiped the floor with Juncker, Barnier et al... and would have dwarfed Theresa (dis)May, that's for sure. One of the last of a dying breed, perhaps?

My grandma new her quite well, as did many in Cambridge while she was mayor. She said of her that she was 'a great laugh, very warm if she wanted to be, and very forthright...rather apt to "scare the horses"'.

Shame she kicked, could have done with putting her into battle in Brussels. 

Edited November 28, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[losworld]

what kind of idiot would want to climb aboard the sinking ship that is the EU?  guess we will find out soon...

[damascase]

1 minute ago, losworld said:

what kind of idiot would want to climb aboard the sinking ship that is the EU?  guess we will find out soon...

This is about leaving the EU, not about ‘climbing on board’, that is not the issue here. Anyhow, you are going to leave, so what do you care? Just go, and don’t look back (otherwise you might regret you left, who knows............)

[damascase]

11 minutes ago, losworld said:

 

Edited November 28, 2018 by damascase
Double posting

[tebee]

 

[adammike]

2 hours ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

...and clearly a neurotic old softy, who's sold out - completing the transformation from working class Manc lad to pro-globalist champagne socialist. Pretty quick to forget his working class routes - and of course the reasons for people, in a position once similar to his own, to vote the way they did, in both Lab and Cons constituencies. He's simply aiding and abetting the biased MSM, then rightfully admonishing May (not Tory voters), but simultaneously sneering at over half of his compatriots for precisely nothing. 

He hasn't forgotten his roots he did well because he had talent as an artist singer/writer/poet.like many of his generation myself included we left school at 15 with no qualifications, but the children of that generation got to university.The letter was not about him it was about the grandchildren of our generation.you seem to know the price of everything and the value of nothing,while I'm in cliche mode a little knowledge is a dangerous thing sums up more than a few on this thread.condescending c#=:s.

[tumama]

1 hour ago, losworld said:

what kind of idiot would want to climb aboard the sinking ship that is the EU?  guess we will find out soon...

The sinking ship that is Ukraine?

[Orac]

She would have wiped the floor with Juncker, Barnier et al... and would have dwarfed Theresa (dis)May, that's for sure. One of the last of a dying breed, perhaps?
My grandma new her quite well, as did many in Cambridge while she was mayor. She said of her that she was 'a great laugh, very warm if she wanted to be, and very forthright...rather apt to "scare the horses"'.
Shame she kicked, could have done with putting her into battle in Brussels. 

She was a remainer.


“She moved abroad – first to Paris, where she worked for an NGO that was responsible for resurrecting Europe’s transport networks (she remains a huge supporter of Europe and calls Brexit ‘a tragedy’).”

https://www.tatler.com/article/baroness-trumpington-interview-2018-retiring-politics



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[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

21 minutes ago, adammike said:

He hasn't forgotten his roots he did well because he had talent as an artist singer/writer/poet.like many of his generation myself included we left school at 15 with no qualifications, but the children of that generation got to university.The letter was not about him it was about the grandchildren of our generation.you seem to know the price of everything and the value of nothing,while I'm in cliche mode a little knowledge is a dangerous thing sums up more than a few on this thread.condescending c#=:s.

Maybe you should wind your neck in a bit fella, spewing out such vitriol against myself and those you disagree with on TVF, you only look foolish. Learn some manners.

 

It's tiresome and unnecessary. I haven't once (to my memory) slandered you personally, I've called him (Harding) out for what I believe him to be, judging him by his words, alone, as have others on here. If he makes statements such as this in publications, it's the public's prerogative to challenge them. However, I'll freely admit that there's a chance I'm wrong in my summation, having never met the man, but I would argue for my analysis being roughly accurate, as he seems to make a pretty good case for it by himself.

 

And please, I'm condescending to no-one, that was done to full effect by Harding in his sanctimonious little article. I never doubted his talent as any of the above, nor am I denigrating his achievement, that's fine by me - as is anyone's, it's to be celebrated not attacked. What I really don't like is someone who reaches an elevated position in society to then look back at their beginnings and judge those who still reside their with contempt and paternalism, as he seems very clearly to be doing in the text in question. He's also spreading misinformation re: ability to work / travel and retire in Europe (as per bloody usual) and is engaging in latent hypocrisy (again, as per usual) with his call for a 2nd referendum to overturn the first - which he simply dislikes the result of and is therefore inclined to rail against, similar to how you dislike my comments and have decided to get a bit 'choice' in your retort. 

 

If you can't debate constructively and without personal vehemence, then, perhaps you shouldn't comment at all?

 

Edited November 28, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[adammike]

6 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

Maybe you should wind your neck in a bit fella, spewing out such vitriol against myself and those you disagree with on TVF, you only look foolish. Learn some manners.

 

It's tiresome and unnecessary. I haven't once (to my memory) slandered you personally, I've called him (Harding) out for what I believe him to be, judging him by his words, alone, as have others on here. If he makes statements such as this in publications, it's the public's prerogative to challenge them. However, I'll freely admit that there's a chance I'm wrong in my summation, having never met the man, but I would argue for my analysis being roughly accurate, as he seems to make a pretty good case for it by himself.

 

And please, I'm condescending to no-one, that was done to full effect by Harding in his sanctimonious little article. I never doubted his talent as any of the above, nor am I denigrating his achievement, that's fine by me - as is anyone's, it's to be celebrated not attacked. What I really don't like is someone who reaches an elevated position in society to then look back at their beginnings and judge those who still reside their with contempt and paternalism, as he seems very clearly to be doing in the text in question. He's also spreading misinformation re: ability to work / travel and retire in Europe (as per bloody usual) and is engaging in latent hypocrisy (again, as per usual) with his call for a 2nd referendum to overturn the first - which he simply dislikes the result of and is therefore inclined to rail against, similar to how you dislike my comments and have decided to get a bit 'choice' in your retort. 

 

If you can't debate constructively and without personal vehemence, then, perhaps you shouldn't comment at all?

 

Guess we will agree to disagree.peace and love.

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

2 minutes ago, adammike said:

Guess we will agree to disagree.peace and love.

That's more like it!

 

You're entitled to your opinion, just as I'm entitled to mine. 

 

Cheers. ????

[tebee]

This is why brexit is rapidly becoming a hard sell.

 

 

[tebee]

So Govt position appears to be ...all forms of Brexit are bad for economy, but Mrs May's approach is least worst outcome?

[tebee]

it's all going so well for TM and her deal.....

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/brexit/7843364/theresa-may-commons-200-vote-defeat-brexit-deal/

[Stupooey]

On 11/26/2018 at 2:41 PM, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

You might be shocked to learn, that I don't entirely disagree with you. 

I would agree that by WWII the swagger had definitely gone, and the power and strength had been bled out of the UK by two devastating world wars in quick succession. The following tumultuous decades of political ruptions, economic stagnation and loss of Empire weakened the UK in a big way too. Neither do I long for a bygone age - in reality, to romanticise the past is a little naive, and, ultimately fruitless - but to recognise and applaud past strengths and morals that are lacking from our modern world is not the same thing.

Churchill may have been a flabby, somewhat pompous alcy, but he stood for, personified even, a great many things that are in complete contrast with what the EU increasingly represents. I'm sure rabid anti-imperialist, anti-British types would cite his dubious views on imperial influence and race etc., but his importance shouldn't be underestimated nor his resolve undervalued, he - along with those whom he inspired - won us our liberty and secured our independence from a continental tyranny, if he hadn't have been there to do that, the EU wouldn't be here today - this is the great irony, as others have correctly opined in earlier comments.

 

Where I (obviously) totally disagree with you is that the possible gains of leaving far outweigh the blatant negatives of remaining. Not least of which is our sovereignty and the nation's reputation. To be bossed about by an unelected flabby, pompous alcoholic bureaucrat like Juncker from his ivory tower in Brussels, is simply unacceptable. If this kind of supercilious twerp is 'the future of Europe' then perhaps recalling and reinvigorating characteristics of the past isn't such a bad idea?  Pride in our nation, pride in ourselves and confidence in our ability are what is so sorely needed. Long term opportunity, civic unity and proper sovereignty is ALWAYS preferable, whats more - it's our hard-won right as a nation. The chance to draw on some of that (perhaps dying) British pluck and courage, in order to show these federalist bullies where to get off, is just the icing on the cake, IMO. 

 

Short term hit vs long term pride and self-determination; I voted for the latter, knowing full well it could potentially hurt people, including myself and my family, for a time.

Not being afforded the democratically mandated opportunity to fulfill our potential under renewed sovereignty is what will bring this situation to a head, however. It must not be allowed to happen.

 

 

As a matter of interest, what is your view on Churchill's defeat in the 1945 General Election? As a Leave supporter you must believe in the infallibility of the UK electorate, although I personally believe that result demonstrated their fickleness, and showed why we should never go down the route of government by referendum.

Back to today: my main difference with you seems to be that i don't see everything in terms of black and white. I am no great Juncker lover, but you have to show some sort of respect to someone who was the elected PM of his country for 18 years (and if you say 'it was only Luxembourg', who's being supercilious then?). His main problem has been being taken too seriously at times - one quote which has been repeated many times on this thread related to the Lisbon Treaty, on the lines that 'they'll lose some Sovereignty, but I'd be foolish to let them know that'. This was said in an interview with a Belgian newspaper, he knew it would be all round the World within a day, but try telling that to the UK press (or TV posters), who saw it as him being secretive. I can also quite understand his current attitude, Brexit has already taken up a disproportionate amount of his time so he has been forced to put his foot down to stop the endless dithering by the UK.

Talking of Sovereignty, it does seem to be a major bone of contention between Leavers and Remainers. You clearly see absolute Sovereignty as a must, whereas I see it as a liability which encourages totalitarianism. However, I don't think the issue had much bearing on the Referendum result, people's votes are influenced by what affects them in their everyday lives, and as I asked previously (without response) when was the last time any of our lives were directly affected by not having absolute Sovereignty?

As for the nation's reputation, it's going to take a long time to salvage that, I fear. 

[tebee]