UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[bomber]

20 minutes ago, sandyf said:

I was stationed in the UAE in 1970 not far from Dubai. In those days it was known as the Trucial Oman States, there was little oil and very few Americans. The UK was responsible for policing the area and provided a great deal of administrative and constructive assistance to the various emirates.

The Mathew Hedges case is a timely reminder of how little regard the UAE has for the help provided by the UK in those formative years. Those that think trade deals will come easy with countries that there is some form of historical relationship are in for a bit of a shock.

The UK has thrown away what little clout it had and the word "Beneficial" is never going to be associated with any trade deal, unless of course you work in the arms trade. There is a good reason why some are desperate to trade without the EU looking over their shoulder.

a no deal and these other trade deals will not be in place on 31/3/2019 all these other nations that are supposedly queing up (leave BS) will to wanting whats good for them,the UK doesnt make much to export these day its about time people realised this,the 100,000 jobs provided by the Jap/German car plants and 20,000 airbus jobs wont be replaced with factories making plastic toys for export to the far east,coal production isnt going to resurface,we CANNOT compete its a case of protecting what little we have,going around the world cap in hand (which we have) asking for trade deals to countries like Nigeria is pathetic,but beggars cannot be choosers.

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

Pompous Brexiteering at its best.

 

My thoughts exactly. Same old rehashed nonsense that most Brexit supporters in the street would not understand, on account of voting solely to control immigration and stick two fingers up to Cameron. 

[AlexRich]

48 minutes ago, bomber said:

yes and the leave voters want to give more power to the people that employ clowns like this,give me a frog or german any day.The UK couldnt organise a poss up in a brewery.

 

We could have Jacob Rees Mogg, as long as he doesn't have to count above 48.

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, bomber said:

 

Edited November 29, 2018 by AlexRich

[bomber]

2 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

There's a difference between today and 2016. The day after the vote nothing changed, we were still in the EU, no disruption, no change in rules or processes. Yet the pound has fallen, GDP growth slowed and inward investment is well below expectations, so has slowed also. And that's was basically on a change in sentiment and business confidence. So not armageddon but not exactly the sunlit uplands either. But the day after "no deal" is on a different scale in terms of the actual changes ... everything changes, some foreseeable and others not ... and that is likely to be a much harder economic landing with real life consequences.

 

And my point is that the people who are advocating that do not believe they will be affected, but many others will pay the price, including the MP's who create it. Something that will be uppermost in their minds ... for them there are consequences also, so I think that they will go for some soft option, or pass it back to the public, who will toss it in the bin. 

 

 

 

the leave voters always point to the fact that just because the country carried on as normal the day after brexit that all was going to be fine,the reality is all is not fine and all is about to get worse,just a case of how worse,one thing that is 100% certain nothing is going to get better,other than a few less polish farm workers for the leave voters to rejoice over.oh i forgot that polish tatty picker might of visited a doctor once a year for 10 minutes,thats £30 per hour divided by 10 minutes = £5.00 saved,British drunk falls over in malaluf needs plaster cast on leg has no insurance = £1500.00 bill,phones home mammy pays for it on credit card,UK household debit increases and £1500.00 for spanish govt

[AlexRich]

1 minute ago, bomber said:

the leave voters always point to the fact that just because the country carried on as normal the day after brexit that all was going to be fine,the reality is all is not fine and all is about to get worse,just a case of how worse,one thing that is 100% certain nothing is going to get better,other than a few less polish farm workers for the leave voters to rejoice over.oh i forgot that polish tatty picker might of visited a doctor once a year for 10 minutes,thats £30 per hour divided by 10 minutes = £5.00 saved,British drunk falls over in malaluf needs plaster cast on leg has no insurance = £1500.00 bill,phones home mammy pays for it on credit card,UK household debit increases and £1500.00 for spanish govt

 

I don't think it has dawned on some people that the day after is different, it's not the same as the vote. It was the same for those that say May should walk away. She would not have been walking back to the status quo, she'd be walking back to a completely changed environment.

 

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

27 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

My thoughts exactly. Same old rehashed nonsense that most Brexit supporters in the street would not understand, on account of voting solely to control immigration and stick two fingers up to Cameron. 

I didn't mean to sound too judgmental of you / overly scathing in my reply, if it comes off that way I apologise. I don't fully disagree with you that a fair number of people voted out of protest, either - and that their conditions/surroundings were what drove them to vote, in many cases for the first time in their lives.

Many of them were Tories and many of them Labour, and possibly even more were apolitical altogether, it was a mixed bag - the highest voter turnout ever recorded after all. Where we fundamentally differ in our opinion is that I do think their surroundings and their lives in general had suffered/worsened in very large part due to, either directly or indirectly, policies/directives and legislation emanating from the EU. Not solely from Brussels, but in large part. Immigration perhaps being the biggest contributing factor.

Edited November 29, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[AlexRich]

22 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

I didn't mean to sound too judgmental of you / overly scathing in my reply, if it comes off that way I apologise. I don't fully disagree with you that a fair number of people voted out of protest, either - and that their conditions/surroundings were what drove them to vote, in many cases for the first time in their lives.

Many of them were Tories and many of them Labour, and possibly even more were apolitical altogether, it was a mixed bag - the highest voter turnout ever recorded after all. Where we fundamentally differ in our opinion is that I do think their surroundings and their lives in general had suffered/worsened in very large part due to, either directly or indirectly, policies/directives and legislation emanating from the EU. Not solely from Brussels, but in large part. Immigration perhaps being the biggest contributing factor.

 

Don't worry, I wasn't offended, just don't want to wade through the same old points about ECJ, sovereignty, etc, points that I don't believe concern the majority who voted leave. I have an aunt, not the brightest of people, who voted leave to "stop immigration". Where she lives there are no immigrants? She's been recovering from leukaemia and is a regular at a hospital who employ professionals from overseas, all of whom treat her very well, as her daughters have pointed out to her. There are a percentage of leave voters who care about all the points that you have raised, but to my mind they don't represent the majority, they are a large minority, but a minority nonetheless. The UK has done well within the EU, the people who feel disenfranchised are victims of a financial crisis that the EU did not create followed by an austerity programme that the EU did not create. But if you are a campaigner with a right wing, free trade, low tax agenda, the EU provides a convenient scapegoat to get the plebs into the voting booths. And unlike you, I don't believe they are voting in their own long term interests, or anybody else's.

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

re Corbyn et al,

 

which are the industries he considers for nationalisation?

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

re Corbyn et al,

 

which are the industries he considers for nationalisation?

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

 

re Corbyn et al,

 

which are the industries he considers for nationalisation?

 

[AlexRich]

10 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

re Corbyn et al,

 

which are the industries he considers for nationalisation?

 

Water and railways for sure, swiftly followed by electricity and gas supply. Then he’ll appropriate 10% of listed companies, ostensibly to give to employees, but not really. When the car companies leave he might also launch Corbynista, the new UK brand of car, using the disused factories. And relaunch Pravda UK, before signing a historic free trade deal with Venezuela.

[tebee]

 

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, bomber said:

a no deal and these other trade deals will not be in place on 31/3/2019 all these other nations that are supposedly queing up (leave BS) will to wanting whats good for them,the UK doesnt make much to export these day its about time people realised this,the 100,000 jobs provided by the Jap/German car plants and 20,000 airbus jobs wont be replaced with factories making plastic toys for export to the far east,coal production isnt going to resurface,we CANNOT compete its a case of protecting what little we have,going around the world cap in hand (which we have) asking for trade deals to countries like Nigeria is pathetic,but beggars cannot be choosers.

Vehicles only accounted for 12.1% of UK Exports  Aircraft, spacecraft: account for 4.7% of Uk exports  Clearly you haven't got a clue what the Uk exports

[AlexRich]

10 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Vehicles only accounted for 12.1% of UK Exports  Aircraft, spacecraft: account for 4.7% of Uk exports  Clearly you haven't got a clue what the Uk exports

44% of which are to countries within the EU.

[vinny41]

3 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

44% of which are to countries within the EU.

And I don't know of anyone that has said those exports will be stopped after Brexit in the same way 82% of all cars in the UK are imported from the EU, now if the EU wants to slap on Tariffs for UK to EU imports the Uk will do the same, If the EU choose the option of tariff free cars from the UK to EU i am sure the UK will apply the same rules

 

[vinny41]

3 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

44% of which are to countries within the EU.

And I don't know of anyone that has said those exports will be stopped after Brexit in the same way 82% of all cars in the UK are imported from the EU, now if the EU wants to slap on Tariffs for UK to EU imports the Uk will do the same, If the EU choose the option of tariff free cars from the UK to EU i am sure the UK will apply the same rules

 

[bomber]

14 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Vehicles only accounted for 12.1% of UK Exports  Aircraft, spacecraft: account for 4.7% of Uk exports  Clearly you haven't got a clue what the Uk exports

i clearly do as these make up nearly 17% which is a massive amount before we even mention all the other industries hoping for a good deal/dreading a no deal,to say its only 17% shows how few brain cells you posses,whatever next GDP is ONLY down 17%,the pound is ONLY down 17%,stock markets ONLY down 17%,NHS spending ONLY down 17% because unemployment is ONLY up 17% because of companies leaving and less tax receipts,how would you like ONLY 17% of your wealth/assets/income/pension/benefits or whatever taken from you for the sake of a few poles scraping a living doing the shitty work the benefit scroungers wont.

[vinny41]

2 hours ago, bomber said:

pound is a tad above a 20 year low,the day before brexit is was around 53.5 a no deal would of boosted it to probably 55-57 also GDP would of been higher and inflation lower so possibly it could of been nearer 60,instead its averaged 43 thats a 25% hit and its more or less across all currencies,the extra money spent by brits overseas since brexit must be into the billions and rising,money that could of been spent in the UK,of all the predictions the drop in sterling was the one that was spot on and will be the same again if/when we do leave for good,most of carneys other worst case predictions look to be OTT and my thinking is cut them in half and you wont be far away from reality,so basically were still donald ducked. 

When you look at currency exchange rates you have to consider many factors over the past few years Thailand Economy has been improving hence stronger Bht, oil prices are another consideration 

Thailand: an Economy on the Rise

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/Recommended/Economy/355

[vinny41]

7 minutes ago, bomber said:

i clearly do as these make up nearly 17% which is a massive amount before we even mention all the other industries hoping for a good deal/dreading a no deal,to say its only 17% shows how few brain cells you posses,whatever next GDP is ONLY down 17%,the pound is ONLY down 17%,stock markets ONLY down 17%,NHS spending ONLY down 17% because unemployment is ONLY up 17% because of companies leaving and less tax receipts,how would you like ONLY 17% of your wealth/assets/income/pension/benefits or whatever taken from you for the sake of a few poles scraping a living doing the shitty work the benefit scroungers wont.

Once again clearly you don't understand what your talking about as a general rule as history will show you if you bothered to engage your brain instead of spouting rubbish when Sterling is down Stocks Markets are up

UK stock markets soar as sterling slumps

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/investing/article-3838513/Why-falling-pound-helped-shares-soar-cent-sterling-lost-FTSE-flown-higher-higher.html

[bomber]

2 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

And I don't know of anyone that has said those exports will be stopped after Brexit in the same way 82% of all cars in the UK are imported from the EU, now if the EU wants to slap on Tariffs for UK to EU imports the Uk will do the same, If the EU choose the option of tariff free cars from the UK to EU i am sure the UK will apply the same rules

 

they will continue producing until the manufacturers organise more suitable factories within the EU,they have as good as said this many times in the last 2 years and i have said on here several times they will be as good as gone in 4-7 years,we all know they cannot leave the following week but they will eventually, a car has a 4-6 year span and when the new model is due it will be built elsewhere,regardless of a good deal i would think they will be considering moving in the future anyway,why should they put up with all this shit even before comrade corbyn and his dinosaur politics arrive.

[melvinmelvin]

46 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Water and railways for sure, swiftly followed by electricity and gas supply. Then he’ll appropriate 10% of listed companies, ostensibly to give to employees, but not really. When the car companies leave he might also launch Corbynista, the new UK brand of car, using the disused factories. And relaunch Pravda UK, before signing a historic free trade deal with Venezuela.

thanks

 

water, covers both production and supply chain I would assume

railways, covers infrastructure (rails-signalling-traf. control) assumably, but also rolling stock?

electricity, both production, grid and local supply I assume?

gas, distribution and local supply only, I would guess?

 

interesting, kinda compares well with what I hear from UK barstool kings in LoS,

                 fuuuk EU and redtapers-don't pay a farthing-out now- let GB be great again

 

sort of two sides of the same coin

 

[baboon]

54 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Water and railways for sure, swiftly followed by electricity and gas supply. Then he’ll appropriate 10% of listed companies, ostensibly to give to employees, but not really. When the car companies leave he might also launch Corbynista, the new UK brand of car, using the disused factories. And relaunch Pravda UK, before signing a historic free trade deal with Venezuela.

Don't forget the gulags and the KGB-UK....

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, melvinmelvin said:

re Corbyn et al,

 

which are the industries he considers for nationalisation?

 

 

Initially water and rail.  Also, it's not wholesale nationalisation.  They would be run along the lines of major public companies, no doubt using Scottish Water as the successful template.  Broadly, there is public support.

 

Great idea in my view- after all Brexit is about taking control.

Edited November 29, 2018 by mommysboy

[vinny41]

2 minutes ago, bomber said:

they will continue producing until the manufacturers organise more suitable factories within the EU,they have as good as said this many times in the last 2 years and i have said on here several times they will be as good as gone in 4-7 years,we all know they cannot leave the following week but they will eventually, a car has a 4-6 year span and when the new model is due it will be built elsewhere,regardless of a good deal i would think they will be considering moving in the future anyway,why should they put up with all this shit even before comrade corbyn and his dinosaur politics arrive.

Jaguar Land Rover and Aston Martin cars command a premium price in the USA and China because they are british marque Their sales  literature mentions the fact numerous it also mentions the History and  heritage of their vehicles designed in the UK built in the UK, Those vehicles wouldn't be able to command the same premium price to USA and Chinese customers if the vehicles are not built in the UK  and Jaguar Landrover and Aston Martin are fully aware of that issue.

[bomber]

5 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Once again clearly you don't understand what your talking about as a general rule as history will show you if you bothered to engage your brain instead of spouting rubbish when Sterling is down Stocks Markets are up

UK stock markets soar as sterling slumps

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/investing/article-3838513/Why-falling-pound-helped-shares-soar-cent-sterling-lost-FTSE-flown-higher-higher.html

BS as the FTSE 100 stood at 7750 about 5-6 week ago, as i write this its 7057 thats a 10% DROP in 5-6 weeks,at least its not as bad as your favourite 17%,your improving slowly but surely???? and for good measure the FTSE stood at 7010 on 31/12/1999 so its soared about 0.6% in 18 years???? wow thats really impressive ????  stocks did rise after brexit because of the higher dollar/lower pound but that has now been lost,we now left with a shit stock market and a shit pound,cheers brexiteers

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

 

I also like that dead parrot bit.

 

you should send it to John Cleese, sure he would enjoy.

 

 

[bomber]

5 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Jaguar Land Rover and Aston Martin cars command a premium price in the USA and China because they are british marque Their sales  literature mentions the fact numerous it also mentions the History and  heritage of their vehicles designed in the UK built in the UK, Those vehicles wouldn't be able to command the same premium price to USA and Chinese customers if the vehicles are not built in the UK  and Jaguar Landrover and Aston Martin are fully aware of that issue.

JLR announced a few months ago that land rover or range rover i cannot recall production was been moved to slovakia,its a start.

[vinny41]

6 minutes ago, bomber said:

BS as the FTSE 100 stood at 7750 about 5-6 week ago, as i write this its 7057 thats a 10% DROP in 5-6 weeks,at least its not as bad as your favourite 17%,your improving slowly but surely???? and for good measure the FTSE stood at 7010 on 31/12/1999 so its soared about 0.6% in 18 years???? wow thats really impressive ????  stocks did rise after brexit because of the higher dollar/lower pound but that has now been lost,we now left with a shit stock market and a shit pound,cheers brexiteers

There may have been some other factors at play in those months, but one of the strongest drivers in the fortunes of the FTSE, the leading measure of UK stock market performance, was the direction of the pound.

This is because such a large proportion of profits for FTSE 100 companies is made in dollars. If sterling weakens then dollar revenues, once converted back into sterling, are worth more.

In three months when the FTSE 100 rose 10.4%, the pound fell 12.8% against the dollar.

71% of revenues generated by FTSE 100 companies come from outside the UK

http://www.cityam.com/263916/why-ftse-100-rises-sterling-falls-explained-two-charts

[bomber]

10 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Initially water and rail.  Also, it's not wholesale nationalisation.  They would be run along the lines of major public companies, no doubt using Scottish Water as the successful template.  Broadly, there is public support.

so when can i expect a water shortage to go with the power cuts? and lets nor forget all them rail workers deserve a 25% pay rise,and dont forget the tube drivers £850 a week for 36 hours is slave labour for sitting on their arse's,give them £1150 and keep the red flag flying high