Trump renews attacks on protesting NFL players, says 'be cool'

[Tug]

I to wish they would find a different way to express their valid points that being said it’s the most visible way so I support them what does piss me off is a racist pow insulting draft dodging baby cageing sob embracing the American flag

[mtls2005]

7 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Trump didnt suggest that Clubs "illegally" fire players , he did say that they should be fired , but he didnt say they should be fired "illegally" .

   Whether firing them would be legal or not is a different matter and that can be decided by the Lawyers , but Trump didnt say that they should be fired illegally

 

Ignorance of the law is rarely an excuse for violating it, except in tRUmp's case so frequently.

 

Suggesting that employees be fired without cause is probably not illegal per se, just stoopid.

 

Encouraging others to engage in illegal acts - like your son, for instance, can be viewed as a conspiracy.

 

 

 

 

[sanemax]

14 minutes ago, mikebike said:

There is something wrong with the govt (45) threatening NFL owners over a free speech issue. It is a violation of the 1st Amendment.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/10/us/politics/trump-nfl-jemele-hill.html

Trump was making a point , it wasnt any sort of proposal and it wasnt a direct threat of any action to be taken

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

15 minutes ago, sanemax said:

I am just going by general employment rules and the players contracts .

Which I sure that NFL players have to adhere too .

   I dont know about U.S. players contracts , but UK players have many clauses put in them about not bringing the Club into disrepute or giving them bad publicity, and they are very restricted in what they can and cannot do .

I know what you mean I used to work for a huge US Engineering firm everyone was specifically required to not speak on behalf of the company and direct all media enquiries to Corporate/ HR. But I don't think any US corporation could put up boilerplate language of "bringing the company into disrepute". In fact in a case of safety compliance or corruption you would be protected under law from termination or penalty. The US first Amendment freedom case law is very expansive. This is a silent protest comparable to "prayer in school" issue.

• One can literally burn the flag publicly
• A freak may march around in a Nazi outfit and chant all kinds of slurs, with police protection
• You can join the military and refuse to touch a gun

The NFL could try to re-negotiate all the players contracts and the CBA to mandate they stand at attention during the national Anthem, or stay in the lockers. I think they would be sued and lose.

 

[mtls2005]

2 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Trump was making a point , it wasnt any sort of proposal and it wasnt a direct threat of any action to be taken

 

Well, that might require an interview under oath to get at his "intent".

 

 

[sanemax]

Just now, mtls2005 said:

 

Ignorance of the law is rarely an excuse for violating it, ecpt in tRUmp's case so frequently.

Suggesting that employees be fired without cause is probably not illegal per se, just stoopid.

Encouraging others to engage in illegal acts - like your son, for instance, can be viewed as a conspiracy.

 

Trump didnt suggest that the players should be fired "without cause" .

Trump didnt encourage anyone to act "illegally"

[Opl]

https://morningconsult.com/form/avoiding-a-firestorm-the-political-issues-brands-should-steer-clear-of/

[mtls2005]

2 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Trump didnt suggest that the players should be fired "without cause" .

 

See, right there, you're clearly wrong.

 

tRUmp did suggest, in past tweets, that players stand or be fired. But they can't be fired without cause.

 

Not sure why you're being so deliberately obtuse, nay 'trumpian'?

 

 

[mtls2005]

7 minutes ago, Opl said:

https://morningconsult.com/form/avoiding-a-firestorm-the-political-issues-brands-should-steer-clear-of/

 

I'm impressed tRUmp voters could even understand the premise of this poll, without flashcards. Maybe that induced some real honesty, by accident?

 

 

[sanemax]

Just now, mtls2005 said:

See, right there, you're clearly wrong.

tRUmp did suggest, in past tweets, that players stand or be fired. But they can't be fired without cause.

Not sure why you're being so deliberately obtuse, nay 'trumpian'?

Do you know what the players contracts state ?

Disobeying the Clubs orders may be a sackable offence .

My point was that Trump did say that they should be fired (which may or may not be legal) but Trump didnt say that they should be "illegally fired" .

  Trump said/meant that they should be legally fired

[Opl]

6 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

 

I'm impressed tRUmp voters could even understand the premise of this poll, without flashcards. Maybe that induced some real honesty, by accident?

 

 

I believe they respond with strong pavlovian reflex to a certain stimulus Trump loves to activate 

[jesimps]

This has nothing to do with police brutality. These protesting players are from a minority, most minorities are left wing and therefore hate Mr Trump and the ruling Republican party. All left-wing minorities will protest over something or other given half the chance. Anyone who uses the playing of the anthem as a chance to protest, black white or shades in-between, is treacherous scum in my opinion. They don't deserve to live in a democratic land of plenty like the US. I think we have more than our fair share of minorities of all types on these boards, hence the Trump bashing.

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

Do you know what the players contracts state ?
Disobeying the Clubs orders may be a sackable offence .
My point was that Trump did say that they should be fired (which may or may not be legal) but Trump didnt say that they should be "illegally fired" .
  Trump said/meant that they should be legally fired

Nothing in a contract, even if signed by parties , is legal if it is unconstitutional.

The players certainly cannot be required to take an oath or “pledge allegiance to the flag” and that is specifically what a requirement to stand during an Anthem with hand on heart may be found to be.

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

Nothing in a contract, even if signed by parties , is legal if it is unconstitutional.
The players certainly cannot be required to take an oath or “pledge allegiance to the flag” and that is specifically what a requirement to stand during an Anthem with hand on heart may be found to be.

They are not required to stand for the National Anthem though , they have an option of not being there , they can sit it out in the dressing room .

  Quite hypocritical of them to use the first amendment to show disrespect to the flag and Country  

[mtls2005]

16 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Do you know what the players contracts state ?

Disobeying the Clubs orders may be a sackable offence .

My point was that Trump did say that they should be fired (which may or may not be legal) but Trump didnt say that they should be "illegally fired" .

  Trump said/meant that they should be legally fired

 

 

14.                               RULES.  Player will comply with and be bound by all reasonable Club rules and regulations in effect during the term of this contract which are not inconsistent with the provisions of this contract or of any collective bargaining agreement in existence during the term of this contract. Player’s attention is also called to the fact that the League functions with certain rules and procedures expressive of its operation as a joint venture among its member clubs and that these rules and practices may affect Player’s relationship to the League and its member clubs independently of the provisions of this contract.

 

"Disobeying orders" is not a sackable offense. This isn't the Nazi Football League, yet.

 

They can't be fired "legally" for protesting, but don't try telling that to Colin Kaepernick.

 

No clue what tRUmp meant? I doubt he even knows what he meant. What he said tweeted was that they should stand or be fired.

 

I'll just let post #72 sit there and compost. That's some scary excrement.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[connda]

Notice the 'packed' stands in the background.  Leave the issue alone.  It's a self-correcting problem.

[mtls2005]

11 minutes ago, sanemax said:

They are not required to stand for the National Anthem though , they have an option of not being there , they can sit it out in the dressing room .

  Quite hypocritical of them to use the first amendment to show disrespect to the flag and Country  

 

Wow, another one who just can't stop digging.

 

Currently, they are not required to stand, with hand on heart and sing the lyrics flawlessly. Not sure if they have to be on the field, that option was offered but delayed.

 

There are not disrespecting the flag or our country. You are being obtuse, again. That is a LIE and It won't become a fact with constant repetition.

 

 

 

 

[mtls2005]

2 minutes ago, connda said:

Notice the 'packed' stands in the background. 

 

Preseason game. In Miami. Before the start of the game. Shocker.

[Srikcir]

3 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

Salaries should be cut until they remember they are being paid millions to play a game, not play politics. Many of the players, of all races, would have been lucky to maintain a middle class life without football. Living the dream and biting the hand.

Trump is the worst person to define what patriotism means.

At least NFL players don't have to collude with a hostile foreign power to succeed in their jobs. They do so on their own merits and within the rule of law.

[sanemax]

7 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

14.                               RULES.  Player will comply with and be bound by all reasonable Club rules and regulations in effect during the term of this contract which are not inconsistent with the provisions of this contract or of any collective bargaining agreement in existence during the term of this contract. Player’s attention is also called to the fact that the League functions with certain rules and procedures expressive of its operation as a joint venture among its member clubs and that these rules and practices may affect Player’s relationship to the League and its member clubs independently of the provisions of this contract.

 

"Disobeying orders" is not a sackable offense. This isn't the Nazi Football League, yet.

They can't be fired "legally" for protesting, but don't try telling that to Colin Kaepernick.

No clue what tRUmp meant? I doubt he even knows what he meant. What he said tweeted was that they should stand or be fired.

 

I'll just let post #72 sit there and compost. That's some scary excrement.

You posted some rules from source unknown , you didnt post their personal work contracts .

   Even the rules that you posted stated that Players must comply with the Clubs rules .

  Individual work contracts usually have Company policy rules .

Disobeying Club orders must be a sackable offence .

"Orders" does sound a bit extreme , change that to *Instruction*

If a players employer instructs a player do do something and he refuses , he must face some form of punishment 

[sanemax]

15 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

There are not disrespecting the flag or our country. You are being obtuse, again. That is a LIE and It won't become a fact with constant repetition.

I disagree with you .

IMO , sitting for a Countries National Anthem is deliberately showing disrespect to that Country , the whole Country .

   If a person has issues with a Country , they should address those issues individually without disprecting the whole Country .

   You cannot say its a "LIE" because its my opinion

[mtls2005]

5 minutes ago, sanemax said:

You posted some rules from source unknown , you didnt post their personal work contracts .

   Even the rules that you posted stated that Players must comply with the Clubs rules .

 

That boilerplate was from the first contract I could find. It accurately reflects the rules. Protesting is not covered by the rules, contract or current CBA.

 

Why do you persist in illustrating your ignorance on this matter?

 

Did you read the ENTIRE paragraph? 

 

Player will comply with and be bound by all reasonable Club rules and regulations in effect during the term of this contract which are not inconsistent with the provisions of this contract or of any collective bargaining agreement in existence during the term of this contract. 

[mtls2005]

4 minutes ago, sanemax said:

IMO , sitting for a Countries National Anthem is deliberately showing disrespect to that Country , the whole Country .

 

Maybe is Banana Republicastan, not in the U.S.A.

 

Please move along.

[Chomper Higgot]

14 minutes ago, sanemax said:

You posted some rules from source unknown , you didnt post their personal work contracts .

   Even the rules that you posted stated that Players must comply with the Clubs rules .

  Individual work contracts usually have Company policy rules .

Disobeying Club orders must be a sackable offence .

"Orders" does sound a bit extreme , change that to *Instruction*

If a players employer instructs a player do do something and he refuses , he must face some form of punishment 

“If a players employer instructs a player do do something and he refuses , he must face some form of punishment“

 

He may, if the employer so chooses, face some form of ‘discipline’.

 

However, when the President of the US starts demanding private organizations ‘discipline’ their staff this raises a question of abuse of power on behalf of the President and questions the motives behind any discipline that may be taken.

 

Perhaps the President should keep out of matters that don’t concern him and deal with those that do?!

[JimGant]

---- and all this protest because a black dude, who just robbed a convenience, store refused a cop's order to quit walking in the middle of the street, and then tried to wrestle the cop's gun away from him -- got shot.

 

Well, the cops have heard you. They now under react, as the Ferguson effect has driven home that trying to police the black communities is a no win situation.  So the cops just sit back and let the bad dudes shoot each other -- what was it in Chicago this past week -- 65 killed?

 

So, you've been heard. Yes, there are still some uncalled for shootings -- more due to ineffective tasers than a misdirected police action. Thus, be thankful your brothers are no longer being shot by the police -- but only by each other. Kinda of a win win situation.

 

No, quit pissing on my flag -- too many of my friends died under its symbolism, albeit in misdirected conflicts (yes, America is far from perfect --- but it's better than most).

 

But if you're really serious about your convictions, show you're really serious and take a lesson from the Vietnamese monks (but protect the environment and use ethanol).

[sanemax]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

However, when the President If the US starts demanding private organizations ‘discipline’ their staff this raises a question of abuse of power on behalf of the President and questions the motives behind any discipline that may be taken.

Perhaps the President should keep out of matters that don’t concern him and deal with those that do?!

The President didnt "demand " anything .

Trump didnt "demand" that they must be fired .

[mtls2005]

2 minutes ago, sanemax said:

The President didnt "demand " anything .

Trump didnt "demand" that they must be fired .

 

Wel now you're resorting to intent and semantics.

 

tRUmp tweet, Sep. 14. 2017: "Fire or suspend!"

 

Is that a "demand" probably not. Maybe if it were all in CAPS it could be construed as a DEMAND?

 

It is hard to tell with his whiney, petulant tweets.

[Becker]

1 hour ago, jesimps said:

This has nothing to do with police brutality. These protesting players are from a minority, most minorities are left wing and therefore hate Mr Trump and the ruling Republican party. All left-wing minorities will protest over something or other given half the chance. Anyone who uses the playing of the anthem as a chance to protest, black white or shades in-between, is treacherous scum in my opinion. They don't deserve to live in a democratic land of plenty like the US. I think we have more than our fair share of minorities of all types on these boards, hence the Trump bashing.

What a load of bovine discharge. Must have been written by someone from the minority that elected the man-child.

The protesters are "treacherous scum"?? I'll tell you who's treacherous scum; that's the draft dodging traitor in the WH.

[sanemax]

46 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

 

Wel now you're resorting to intent and semantics.

tRUmp tweet, Sep. 14. 2017: "Fire or suspend!"

Is that a "demand" probably not. Maybe if it were all in CAPS it could be construed as a DEMAND?

It is hard to tell with his whiney, petulant tweets.

No , its not "semantics" .

There is a huge difference between a demand and a non demanding tweet

[Ulic]

3 hours ago, sanemax said:

The Players are employed by their Clubs , they are representing their Clubs and thus have to act in a way that will not bring their Clubs into disrepute .

   If their Clubs feel that the players are bringing their Clubs into disrepute , they have every right to fire them . 

   Trump has suggested that the players be fired , nothing wrong with that .

Its up to the clubs whether they fire them or not

It is the NFL. The teams are able to cut/fire the players at any time. Up to them. They do

not need a reason. What they cannot do is fine the players and then expect the players to

play the game. Taking a knee does not disrespect the flag or the military. That is not what

the protest is about. That is just right-wing/racist spin.