new rip off now at pattaya immigration

[chuang]

Yeah Yeah, just blame it on the immigration as usual but not thyself....⛔

[Geordie59]

The OP has obviously been in Thailand for some years as this was I think his third licence renewal. As such I am very surprised that he didn't know of the requirement to register his address within 24 hours of arrival. It has re received massive publicity and comment sine the law started to be enforced over a year ago. 

That said Jomtien immigration were saying a few months ago that there was no need to register every time if the address had not changed. 

IT looks like they have changed their mind on that. However, from the tone of the OPs writings I wonder if he just pissed off the IO he was dealing with to the extent that they he died to teach him a lesson. 

[Spidey]

Just now, Geordie59 said:

That said Jomtien immigration were saying a few months ago that there was no need to register every time if the address had not changed. 

Still the case for people on retirement visas.

[phuketrichard]

16 hours ago, Briggsy said:

Yes, I know it's nuts. 1600 Baht for nothing.

 

Basically, for reasons of self-interest, you need to think when entering the country, "Am I going to have to interact with an immigration office during this stay?" If the answer is "Yes" then better to do a TM30, if "No" then maybe don't bother.

 

Reasons for going to (Pattaya) immigration include

Visa extension

New driver's licence

Buying and registering a vehicle

New passport and transfer of stamp

90 days' notification

 

There are other reasons.

need re entry permit

[stud858]

If you got your own country license  just get an international driver permit online. that's If your country is on the accepted list.

[stud858]

Doop

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, Mattd said:

So, you are saying that somebody coming on holiday to Thailand and is staying for two weeks at the private residence of a Thai is responsible?

 

No, they would be classed as a Tourist and visiting.

I specifically stated 'staying' , meaning longer term.

[Mattd]

2 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

No, they would be classed as a Tourist and visiting.

I specifically stated 'staying' , meaning longer term.

Fair enough, but the fact remains that somebody is responsible for that tourist reporting just as much as a long term resident in the yes of the immigration law, it doesn't differentiate.

There is no mention of the need to report on the TM.6 or on the entry stamp, so who should be fined in my example?

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

If a Thai is renting a place then the possessor is Thai

She would be the tenant, with the rental contract.

You would both be occupying the residence, so also possessors of the residence.

[LongTimeLurker]

17 hours ago, sweeneythailand said:

i do one month in one month out for years never had a problem what new law is it that wants 2 mill people to go to immigration within 24 hours of arrival

 

It's not a new law.

 

I bought my current condo 12 years ago and the condo management informed me of the requirements back then.

 

And it's been on the statutes since before then.

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, Mattd said:

I agree that the law doesn't state Thai, but the ones in general who are supposed to report this in reality are Thais and a lot do not,

If Thais alone were responsible for reporting the TM30 would be in Thai only.

 

I completely accept the argument that many Thais of private residences are not aware of the law.

Let's not forget the law was written at a time when many of us were just reaching puberty and very few foreigners lived here.

 

Even as a foreigner claiming 'ignorance' of the laws of a foreign Country you intend to visit or live in, is not accepted as an excuse.

For what it's worth I've never relied on a landlord to report my presence, I've done it myself to make sure the law has been complied with.

[Briggsy]

1 hour ago, Geordie59 said:

That said Jomtien immigration were saying a few months ago that there was no need to register every time if the address had not changed. 

IT looks like they have changed their mind on that. However, from the tone of the OPs writings I wonder if he just pissed off the IO he was dealing with to the extent that they he died to teach him a lesson. 

It is the former. i.e. they have changed their policy.

 

6 months ago, they weren't fining if you hadn't notified within 24 hours. You could rock up a month after you arrived and notify your address provided you had some supporting documentation. I watched about 40 people have to do it prior to their visa extensions. Only one was threatened with a fine after he kicked up a fuss.

 

Fast forward to now, they hit the landlord with a fine straight away if the notification is over 3 days. So it is a clear policy change. If it isn't paid, then the foreigner doesn't get his TM30 receipt slip and can't do his extension.

[LongTimeLurker]

41 minutes ago, stud858 said:

If you got your own country license  just get an international driver permit online. that's If your country is on the accepted list.

But an international licence is only valid for use for 3 months, not a problem if you leave and come back every 3 months, but it would not be legal if you stayed longer.

[stanleycoin]

43 minutes ago, stud858 said:

If you got your own country license  just get an international driver permit online. that's If your country is on the accepted list.

it's only valid for a 90 day period at a time.

 

LongTimeLurker

Ha ha you beat me to it 

[baansgr]

Previous posters have said that on going to report at Jomtien, they were told no need to, just do after 90 days. Consistency is whats needed. I for one will go within the 24hrs even if it turns out to be a wasted trip.

[Mattd]

11 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Even as a foreigner claiming 'ignorance' of the laws of a foreign Country you intend to visit or live in, is not accepted as an excuse.

For what it's worth I've never relied on a landlord to report my presence, I've done it myself to make sure the law has been complied with.

All 100% agreed, although the Thai government do have a certain responsibility to ensure that people are aware of the law and their obligations.

The issue is that the law is old, as you have pointed out, so doesn't take in to account the nature of today.

For example, I have a house in Chonburi, where I reside at during most weekends and all of my official stuff like driving license etc. are registered at, from Sunday through to Friday I stay in a rented condo in Bangkok for work purposes.

Technically, I should report my movement twice a week, which is completely impractical, but the system doesn't allow two residences and certainly not two in two different provinces.

We, as long term residents, definitely should be aware of the rules and abide by them where possible, the Thai authorities should also change with the times and make things easy to comply, they would get far more compliance if they allowed online reporting for instance.

This obsession on knowing where each and every foreigner is residing is a bit strange IMO, we have to write it on a TM.6, then again on a TM.30 within 24 hours, then again every 90 days on a TM.47.............. and yet there is no such requirement for Thai people, who must be registered on a tabien baan, but are not obliged to actually live there.

It is not like the authorities turn up at an address that a foreigner has submitted 2 days after the immigration system says they are on overstay! ? 

[Tanoshi]

19 minutes ago, Mattd said:

Fair enough, but the fact remains that somebody is responsible for that tourist reporting just as much as a long term resident in the yes of the immigration law, it doesn't differentiate.

There is no mention of the need to report on the TM.6 or on the entry stamp, so who should be fined in my example?

The average Tourist would stay in a hotel for 2/3 weeks, but there are exceptions, and taking the same scenario where the foreigner stays in the private residence of a Thai, and reading between the lines of a rather ambiguously written law, I would say if the foreigner has no need to visit an Immigration office, then don't worry about it. They aren't going to hunt you down.

 

If on the other hand, you need to visit an Immigration office for any reason, then it's a different matter.

The law states, the Housemaster, owner, tenant or possessor are all classed as people responsible to make the report.

So clearly Immigration regard the foreigner as at least as possessor of the residence, thus they get fined.

It's wide open for interpretation, so it doesn't pinpoint any individual, be they Thai or foreigner.

[bkk6060]

Mr. Sweeney learn the laws and rules here and keep up on things.

Save yourself money and time.

[chado]

1) If i'm staying in a hotel or condo, will I be able to get an immigration certificate for 500 baht now?

 

2) if I want to extend my 2-month visa for 1 month, will i have to pay that fine of 1600 baht?

[bkk6060]

29 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

If Thais alone were responsible for reporting the TM30 would be in Thai only.

 

I completely accept the argument that many Thais of private residences are not aware of the law.

Let's not forget the law was written at a time when many of us were just reaching puberty and very few foreigners lived here.

 

Even as a foreigner claiming 'ignorance' of the laws of a foreign Country you intend to visit or live in, is not accepted as an excuse.

For what it's worth I've never relied on a landlord to report my presence, I've done it myself to make sure the law has been complied with.

Just about every time I go to immigration there are guys arguing with the IO's about some fine or penalty and their excuse is always they did not know about it.  Overstaying fines seem to be the most popular.

Most people are in fact are ignorant of laws not only in foreign countries, but their own.

And, I 100% agree with you ignorance of laws is no excuse.

[homeseeker]

4 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

They still don't enforce it for individuals. But they do enforce for hotels and etc.

my recent experience is it is enforced at CW for individuals.

[Briggsy]

24 minutes ago, chado said:

1) If i'm staying in a hotel or condo, will I be able to get an immigration certificate for 500 baht now?

 

2) if I want to extend my 2-month visa for 1 month, will i have to pay that fine of 1600 baht?

If you are on about Jomtien :-

 

1) Not sure, could be difficult. They prefer a rental contract for a Certificate of Residence. Give it a whirl, they can only say no.

 

2) First you will need a TM30 receipt. I presume you don't have one. If the hotel has registered you and you are in the database, they (counter 10) will give you one and you will probably avoid the fine. Then you can extend your visa.

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, homeseeker said:

my recent experience is it is enforced at CW for individuals.

Perhaps but only in rare cases.

[Tanoshi]

14 minutes ago, Mattd said:

This obsession on knowing where each and every foreigner is residing is a bit strange IMO, we have to write it on a TM.6, then again on a TM.30 within 24 hours, then again every 90 days on a TM.47.............. and yet there is no such requirement for Thai people, who must be registered on a tabien baan, but are not obliged to actually live there.

The recent enforcement probably has something to do with the spate of terrorists attacks and pressure from foreign governments trying to track criminals who are known to enter Thailand.

The TM6 is submitted on arrival to Thailand, by the foreigner of his 'intended' place of residence. 

The TM30 is only submitted when the foreign arrives at the residence.

 

Clearly that suggests to me that if someone states his 'intended' residence, then it isn't followed by a TM30 supporting his arrival at the residence, then Immigration should be checking. That is how the law was intended to work when written in 1967, but in 2018 it's unworkable and impractical.  Thailand is currently a haven for criminals on the run to 'disappear'.

 

 

 

 

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

That is how the law was intended to work when written in 1967,

The immigration act was done in 1979 not 1967.

[Tanoshi]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

The immigration act was done in 1979 not 1967.

Correct, I hate trying to work out the different calendars.

[dotpoom]

More confusion on this one again. I went home to Europe for a 3 week holiday last May. Checked with the officer when getting my re-entry permit if I would need to sign in within 24 hrs. after my return (after reading different accounts on here)....was told "No"....Went to Soi 5 yesterday, 90 days from my arriving back date (slightly concerned as I did not report as told)....There was no problem?

[Mattd]

34 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

The recent enforcement probably has something to do with the spate of terrorists attacks and pressure from foreign governments trying to track criminals who are known to enter Thailand.

I'd agree that this has some bearing, especially since the Erawan shrine bombing, unfortunately, as you correctly state, it is impractical, unworkable and extremely easy to circumnavigate, especially for those that have suspicious reasons to do so.

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

The average Tourist would stay in a hotel for 2/3 weeks, but there are exceptions, and taking the same scenario where the foreigner stays in the private residence of a Thai, and reading between the lines of a rather ambiguously written law, I would say if the foreigner has no need to visit an Immigration office, then don't worry about it. They aren't going to hunt you down.

Again agreed, but this is where it becomes a bit of a mockery, as it is selectively enforced, not only as you describe, but by area to area, as are most immigration related regulations.

In the true sense of the law all foreigners need to have their address reported, regardless of their intended length of stay here, hence why hotels can report online and in the popular tourist areas it is generally enforced, although, having said that, I've stayed at a lot of major hotel names here and used my Thai DL to check in with, something that should not be allowed with regards to the hotel's obligation to do the TM.30 report.

 

Most countries protect their borders from criminals, using shared intelligence etc. I personally know of none that need you to update an address so frequently.

 

Anyway, it is all off topic really and the OP has obviously been here a while and should have known about the need to report his address, so it isn't really a new rip off by Jomtien!

[cyril sneer]

what happens if you don't pay the fine?

see many people say they refused to pay it and seem to have gotten away with it

[Tanoshi]

4 minutes ago, Mattd said:

I've stayed at a lot of major hotel names here and used my Thai DL to check in with, something that should not be allowed with regards to the hotel's obligation to do the TM.30 report.

I've known them check us  in using the wife's ID, I'm just ET the 'alien' with the ATM card.  ?