Must Read British Embassy Bangkok warns of the importance of having medical insurance

[Sheryl]

Reply from bkk based broker FYI.   There really isn't a lot of options for them - right now all we have is LUMA international that accepts new applicants over 65 and even that is not an option for most because LUMA's rates are very expensive also because they know that they're the only ones who accept 65 - 70 as new applicants.    Not alot of insurance companies want to take the risk as well. We've tried talking to some companies and they have no plans in pursuing this. 

Sounds like you heard from a broker who only sells Thai policies.

There are a number of western based companies which offer expat policies and will enroll people over 65.

Try AA Brokers.

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[Sheryl]

Exorbitant costs though
I am 58 no preexisting medical conditions
If i am  paying 192K THB excess its 70K a year 
No excess 192K a year
 
Thats the rob dog lumia mob

That is absurd. Is that OPD + IPD? You only need IPD. Even for both, still too high.

You can get a good international expat policy for about half that. IPD only but covering outpatient cancer tx and dialysis and day surgeries.

Look into Cigna, Globality, April, AXA, David Short (?) Etc

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[anon789561]

8 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Sounds like you heard from a broker who only sells Thai policies.

There are a number of western based companies which offer expat policies and will enroll people over 65.

Try AA Brokers.

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thank you. i'm 40 so don't need to at this stage but yes from a mainstream broker i guess. not sure they only do thai policies but maybe. mines lmg and i think that's american. anyway same crap i guess

[Sir Dude]

Quote

The warning comes after the British Embassy in Bangkok revealed that many of the people it helped last year did not have insurance.

Lol...the British Embassy doesn't actually help anyone. All it does is say "screw you" or clean up the mess if you die.

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, Happy enough said:

thank you. i'm 40 so don't need to at this stage but yes from a mainstream broker i guess. not sure they only do thai policies but maybe. mines lmg and i think that's american. anyway same crap i guess

Since that broker  did not mention any of the many expat policies from western based companies it is a pretty good bet they only sell Thai products.

 

IMG is indeed a US insurer. Is it their expat policy that you have? (Global Medical)? Have you had any claims? I'm interested to know as so far have not heard any feedback on them. They are a reputable company, from website look a bit more expensive than the European/UK insurers. Do they have direct billing arrangements with Thai hospitals?

[ivor bigun]

I have found travel insurance which wiil sell me $250,000 coverage for my six-month stay in Bangkok for $1,000 if I select a $2,500 deductible. Now I must check the coverage exclusions carefully.  I have recovered from cancer,   have six stents in my heart and use motorcycle taxis.

So you are covered for a bad case of the flu and an upset stomach B) :D

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[ivor bigun]

The warning comes after the British Embassy in Bangkok revealed that many of the people it helped last year did not have insurance.

Lol...the British Embassy doesn't actually help anyone. All it does is say "screw you" or clean up the mess if you die.
Oh come on they dont do that much,screw you yes ,but thats about it

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[anon789561]

13 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Since that broker  did not mention any of the many expat policies from western based companies it is a pretty good bet they only sell Thai products.

 

IMG is indeed a US insurer. Is it their expat policy that you have? (Global Medical)? Have you had any claims? I'm interested to know as so far have not heard any feedback on them. They are a reputable company, from website look a bit more expensive than the European/UK insurers. Do they have direct billing arrangements with Thai hospitals?

I have used lmg for the last couple of years but touch wood haven’t needed to claim. I suppose it is an expat policy. swapped from bupa which I had for many years and originally was with them through a company. Only claimed once with them and that was outpatient. Had to fill out form for bupa and send it them and they sent back a cashing Cheque. Not sure with LMG but they give you a list of Thai hospitals in different areas that they recommend but it has nearly every hospital in Thailand on, certainly the better known ones. Also have a card for the hospitals which shows basic coverage amount in baht and Thai number for them to call to check coverage. Not sure if they would pay direct or not. The site compares with bupa axa pacific and all the usual ones, lmg just had the best policy to suit me I guess

[Sheryl]

20 hours ago, Sheryl said:

That is absurd. Is that OPD + IPD? You only need IPD. Even for both, still too high.

You can get a good international expat policy for about half that. IPD only but covering outpatient cancer tx and dialysis and day surgeries.

Look into Cigna, Globality, April, AXA, David Short (?) Etc

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Correction: David Shield, nto Short.

http://www.davidshield-intl.com/

 

 

 

[topt]

On 8/23/2018 at 1:44 PM, poohy said:

Exorbitant costs though

I am 58 no preexisting medical conditions

If i am  paying 192K THB excess its 70K a year 

No excess 192K a year

 

Thats the rob dog lumia mob

 

22 hours ago, Sheryl said:

That is absurd. Is that OPD + IPD? You only need IPD. Even for both, still too high.

You can get a good international expat policy for about half that. IPD only but covering outpatient cancer tx and dialysis and day surgeries.

Look into Cigna, Globality, April, AXA, David Short (?) Etc

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I am a similar age poohy and have been looking into this - yet again.......

There are a couple of different Luma policies. Asia Care Plus and Asia Care First with different options within including area of cover.. Asia Care plus that covers the items Sheryl mentions is 70k baht a year with no excess. Obviously if you want WW inc US then rates will be higher but under this policy you are still covered for Emergencies when travelling for trips up to 60 days WW.

 

Globality equivalent was almost the same (no price in Thai Baht however) and Cigna Silver with no co pay or deductibles about 30% more expensive (around £2,200 pa). With a £2k deductible it was around the same price as the other 2.

 

With all of these the devil is in the details which you need to compare to see what works best for your requirements - Sheryl has already mentioned some of these but for example I discounted April as it appears from what I read that they only pay you 15 days after - ie. do not have direct billing with the hospital. 

[nausea]

Personally, my ideal situation would be a million bt in the bank, and an insurance policy that gives you an air ambulance home. I'm from the UK. Most health conditions can be treated here at reasonable cost, and if you have a a reasonable income, shouldn't be a cause for concern, especially if you use Government hospitals. And it's a lot better than going on the NHS waiting lists. The real nightmare scenario is being involved in a road accident, your million baht can quickly get used up if you're in ICU, 

[Kwasaki]

31 minutes ago, nausea said:

Personally, my ideal situation would be a million bt in the bank, and an insurance policy that gives you an air ambulance home. I'm from the UK. Most health conditions can be treated here at reasonable cost, and if you have a a reasonable income, shouldn't be a cause for concern, especially if you use Government hospitals. And it's a lot better than going on the NHS waiting lists. The real nightmare scenario is being involved in a road accident, your million baht can quickly get used up if you're in ICU, 

Well what you have or not is up to you, risks are always there, bubble wrap is available and can be delivered. 

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed. 

[DogNo1]

I have read through various travel insurance policies' coverage and exclusions details and, with my preexisting conditions, it appears that all a policy would be good for is traffic accidents or accidental falls.  I'm not really sure that I would be covered if riding on the back of a motorcycle taxi.  A policy that I examined says that only acute worsening of preexisting conditions would be covered so chest pains leading to the installation of additional stents wouldn't be covered - only a full-blown heart attack.  Does anybody have experience submitting claims for travel insurance coverage?  Oh, yes. The policies only cover medical care if it is delivered within the first fifteen days.  I'm looking through more travel insurance offerings but none of them seem promising to provide me with the broad coverage that I would like.

[nong38]

At some point retirees will get to an age when Insurers wont want them as they will be a bad risk, what are they supposed to do go back to Blighty? I think that is unlikely so they will do one of three things:- Marry a Thai lady and hope to get a Healthcard. Self Insure at the Bank or Hope for the best.

[melvinmelvin]

16 minutes ago, nong38 said:

At some point retirees will get to an age when Insurers wont want them as they will be a bad risk, what are they supposed to do go back to Blighty? I think that is unlikely so they will do one of three things:- Marry a Thai lady and hope to get a Healthcard. Self Insure at the Bank or Hope for the best.

I for my part is very clear on that. Health and insurance coming to a stage that is not comfortable.

I am off home asap to enjoy my free NHS.

Easy for me, have no family in LoS.

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, DogNo1 said:

I have read through various travel insurance policies' coverage and exclusions details and, with my preexisting conditions, it appears that all a policy would be good for is traffic accidents or accidental falls.  I'm not really sure that I would be covered if riding on the back of a motorcycle taxi.  A policy that I examined says that only acute worsening of preexisting conditions would be covered so chest pains leading to the installation of additional stents wouldn't be covered - only a full-blown heart attack.  Does anybody have experience submitting claims for travel insurance coverage?  Oh, yes. The policies only cover medical care if it is delivered within the first fifteen days.  I'm looking through more travel insurance offerings but none of them seem promising to provide me with the broad coverage that I would like.

you could look at www.europeiske.no/privat there is an English tag on the first page

 

travel insurance

covers illnesses, accidents, home transport, deaths - transport

in addition to burglary theft delayed flights etc etc

 

never had any problems with them re claims

 

I can pay myself and claim afterwards or I can involve them at an early stage or at the start of contacting clinic or hospital

and they will take over payment from then.

 

spent 5 weeks in hospital in february-march, cost 2 million and some

and they sent down a prof nurse from Norway to follow me home and they bought me a new biz class ticket home

 

now I am back in LoS on a renewed policy - same price as last year

 

 

[gk10002000]

On ‎8‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 1:10 AM, Jonathan Fairfield said:

In 2017, 50 percent of the people who required consular assistance after being hospitalised were uninsured.

 

And it isn’t only tourists who are uninsured. In 2015, with 80% of British residents in Thailand over the age of 51 were found not have medical insurance.

80% of the older expats carried no insurance?  Seems like a lot of people are winging it as they say and hoping for the best.  Now I know out of pocket self insurer can be feasible in Thailand for many things, and I hate most insurance companies, but when that big life savings draining situation occurrrs.   By hook or by crook I have maintained insurance since 1982.  Now at age 61, I am still working but planning on semi retiring pretty soon.  I always had my own private insurance until Obamacare basically tripled the rates so I took the direct job.  Now with Obamacare penalty for non compliance going away, I have more options again, and frankly may end up buying insurance in Thailand and while somewhat backwards, using Thailand medical as my primary care!  Cigna Global is somewhat of a possibility which would cover me most anywhere. 

[superal]

12 hours ago, Mark2019 said:

Be warned. I was sent home by Thai doctors back to the UK for dementia and liver failure. I had very little money and expected a warm welcome from the uk home office. 

 

I was told because I had lived abroad for more than 2 years I had lost my British citizenship even though I had  valid British passport and was British, white, had paid taxes and national insurance.I had worked as a lecturer and had evidence  of this. They told me NO NHS, NO LEGAL AID, NO CITIZENSHIP.

 

I had to take the right to residence test, which I found so insulting. CAN YOU BELIEVE WHAT THE THIS GOVERNMENT HAS DONE TO IT'S OWN PEOPLE? 

You don't need insurance for Thailand you need insurance against the British Home Office.

 

Shocked and repulsed

 

Well that was a real eye opener .  So is the 2 year out of the UK a legal deadline to strip you of your hard earned UK benefits ?  I have heard that 6 months away stops your state pension annual increases but the 2 years away and no longer a UK citizen ? I am gobsmacked and concerned .  So when you arrived in the UK as a holder of a UK passport but no longer a UK citizen in their eyes , how were you able to gain entry ?  Did you have any UK property in your name where by you were paying taxes ?   Finally could you elaborate on the " Residence test " ?  For sure having dementia must have given you some problems . 

       I hope that I am not being naive but I have never heard of a case like this .  Unbelievable & alarming . Do you mind telling us your age ?           I think that the plight of the UK retirees needs to be televised and debated and shame cast on the makers of these ridiculous laws / rules .    

[Sheryl]

I am a similar age poohy and have been looking into this - yet again.......
There are a couple of different Luma policies. Asia Care Plus and Asia Care First with different options within including area of cover.. Asia Care plus that covers the items Sheryl mentions is 70k baht a year with no excess. Obviously if you want WW inc US then rates will be higher but under this policy you are still covered for Emergencies when travelling for trips up to 60 days WW.
 
Globality equivalent was almost the same (no price in Thai Baht however) and Cigna Silver with no co pay or deductibles about 30% more expensive (around £2,200 pa). With a £2k deductible it was around the same price as the other 2.
 
With all of these the devil is in the details which you need to compare to see what works best for your requirements - Sheryl has already mentioned some of these but for example I discounted April as it appears from what I read that they only pay you 15 days after - ie. do not have direct billing with the hospital. 

April has direct billing.

And an office in Thailand to help facilitate claims. A big plus.

Note that the April plan one would want is "My Health International" and NOT "My Health Thailand". Very important as the latter 8s issued out of Thailand and lacks the protection re premium hikes of the former.

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[Kwasaki]

16 hours ago, Mark2019 said:

Be warned. I was sent home by Thai doctors back to the UK for dementia and liver failure. I had very little money and expected a warm welcome from the uk home office. 

 

I was told because I had lived abroad for more than 2 years I had lost my British citizenship even though I had  valid British passport and was British, white, had paid taxes and national insurance.I had worked as a lecturer and had evidence  of this. They told me NO NHS, NO LEGAL AID, NO CITIZENSHIP.

 

I had to take the right to residence test, which I found so insulting. CAN YOU BELIEVE WHAT THE THIS GOVERNMENT HAS DONE TO IT'S OWN PEOPLE? 

You don't need insurance for Thailand you need insurance against the British Home Office.

 

Shocked and repulsed

 

There must be something more than that for your alleged treatment.

I know 2 people who went back UK after abroad more than 2 years and there circumstances were nothing like you describe.

You cannot lose your British citizenship if you have a valid British passport unless your an immigrate, so what are you. ?

[Tuvoc]

As far as I know you can't lose your British passport at all even if a dual national, unless the government explicitly strips you of your citizenship, which is very rare and only happens if you are a terrorist etc. 

 

 

If you only have Indefinite Leave To Remain - yes that lapses if you leave for two more years. I had that. I was in the UK back in the late 80s, got Indefinite Leave to Remain, left for more than 2 years and it lapsed. Came back in the late 90s, had to qualify again for ILR before then getting citizenship and a passport. That can never lapse unless it was obtained by fraud or misrepresentation, or if the government explicitly strips me personally of it because of serious crime (neither of which is the case)

[nong38]

15 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

you could look at www.europeiske.no/privat there is an English tag on the first page

 

travel insurance

covers illnesses, accidents, home transport, deaths - transport

in addition to burglary theft delayed flights etc etc

 

never had any problems with them re claims

 

I can pay myself and claim afterwards or I can involve them at an early stage or at the start of contacting clinic or hospital

and they will take over payment from then.

 

spent 5 weeks in hospital in february-march, cost 2 million and some

and they sent down a prof nurse from Norway to follow me home and they bought me a new biz class ticket home

 

now I am back in LoS on a renewed policy - same price as last year

 

 

If you live here travel insurance will not cover you, you are not travelling, you are residing, they will not pay out. I have checked this out with insurance companies. Many also require you to have been resident in the country you apply for the policy in for the previous 6 or 9 months, also checked this out and had it rechecked by friends in the insurance sector. You will only find out when you make the claim.

[Sheryl]

If you live here travel insurance will not cover you, you are not travelling, you are residing, they will not pay out. I have checked this out with insurance companies. Many also require you to have been resident in the country you apply for the policy in for the previous 6 or 9 months, also checked this out and had it rechecked by friends in the insurance sector. You will only find out when you make the claim.

Basically correct. Travel policies are time bound and not for people living permanently in a foreign country. Most also require that you have health cover in your home country.

 

However they are a good option for people who spend part of the year in Thailand and part in their home country (by part I mean a reasonable amount of time, not just going back for a 1 month visit. Still keeping a home there etc.) Will have to take out a new policy for each trip but this is not hard to do.

 

Those living here longterm fulltime need an expatriate policy, of which there are many to chose from.

 

When you have a claim under a travel policy they will cgeck travel dates in your passport against the trip dates you orovided when you applied.

 

Rules aside, a travel policy will not suit the needs of people living fulltime abroad as only emergency/urgent care is covered. Won't pay for cataract surgery, hip or knee replacements nor anything else that could wait until you return to your home country. In addition the insurer has the option of paying for urgent care abroad OR paying to transport you back to your hone country for it (in which case they pay the travel only as the care in your home country would be covered by whatever insurance ir health system cover you have there.) Or a combination of both. This is why travel policies are so much less expensive yhan full health insurance.

 

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[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, nong38 said:

If you live here travel insurance will not cover you, you are not travelling, you are residing, they will not pay out. I have checked this out with insurance companies. Many also require you to have been resident in the country you apply for the policy in for the previous 6 or 9 months, also checked this out and had it rechecked by friends in the insurance sector. You will only find out when you make the claim.

I can only answer for my insurer, no trace of any restrictions like that in their policy, and they pay out.

 

And this requirement of having been resident ...... does not apply at all, and would not be compatible with how they work.

 

[nong38]

I was originally contacted about the situation by an expat agent working in Pattaya who informed me of the position Insurance take which I checked out with my friends in the Insurance Sector, one was the manager of John Lewis Insurance who found out exactly what the position was with the companies he dealt with and as  I mentioned previously and seems to have been supported by at least one other member.

The agent in Pattaya sent me details of a scheme from a company which was called Liberty Global I think, there were 3 tiers depending on how much cover you wanted and in patient and out patient were separate policies, also depending on age and the older you got the steeper the rise and at 74 no further cover available, if I remember correct, its a few years ago now, so that's why I decided to self insure, if I don't claim then someone else benefits from my money.

Now if you think your Insurance is covering you that is the chance you take, your interpretation of the policy and the company's may be different, I have never had a good result with Insurance companies they quick to take your money and slow to pay out as well as trying to wriggle out of paying anything.

You pays your money, or not and you make your choice.

The moment of truth will come if you make a claim.

[DogNo1]

The travel insurance offered by Tokio Marine to Japan residents is nearly useless.  Myocardial infarction and CVA are not covered at all and other specific exclusions limit the effective coverage to falls and perhaps to traffic accidents.  What is covered is injury or damage that you cause to third parties, loss of baggage, trip interruptions, etc.  For people over 74, self insurance still seems to be the best option.  If you have a return ticket to your country of residence, so long as your doctor will authorize you to fly, you can return for treatment there.  As I keep a permanent residence in Japan, I can be treated immediately upon return under my Japanese health insurance which limits my monthly co-pay to 8,000 yen and hospitalization co-pay to 24,500 per incident.  The room charge needs to be paid personally and can be $100 per day.  Still if my illness is serious enough to keep me in Thailand, 3-5 million would have to be in the bank, probably.

[superal]

When you hit the big 70 and over you have to be a bit cute to secure any type of viable health insurance .However it is possible to attain under the guise of travel insurance if your time is split between your home land and choice of retirement country . There are companies who will look at extended holidays and even if curtailed to 4 months they are well worth the value .  There is nothing illegal about taking a long holiday every year and as long as all previous health history has been declared there should be no problems .  But when it comes to long term health insurance based here in Thailand it is well beyond my consideration .  Wouldn't  it be a godsend if your N.I.Cs were portable , after all it is a type of insurance for health care . Sorry , almost forgot that the UK government do not give a toss for their retirees   

[Sheryl]

The travel insurance offered by Tokio Marine to Japan residents is nearly useless.  Myocardial infarction and CVA are not covered at all and other specific exclusions limit the effective coverage to falls and perhaps to traffic accidents.  What is covered is injury or damage that you cause to third parties, loss of baggage, trip interruptions, etc.  For people over 74, self insurance still seems to be the best option.  If you have a return ticket to your country of residence, so long as your doctor will authorize you to fly, you can return for treatment there.  As I keep a permanent residence in Japan, I can be treated immediately upon return under my Japanese health insurance which limits my monthly co-pay to 8,000 yen and hospitalization co-pay to 24,500 per incident.  The room charge needs to be paid personally and can be $100 per day.  Still if my illness is serious enough to keep me in Thailand, 3-5 million would have to be in the bank, probably.

Plenty of other travel insurance policies out there that will provide decent cover. You do not have to get one issued in Japan.

April travel insurance has a good rep. The company is based in France but will insure people from other countries.

For those under 65, World Nomads is a good option.

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[meechai]

16 hours ago, Sheryl said:

For those under 65, World Nomads is a good option.

Thank You !

 

Was just getting ready to buy from IMG or Azimuth

Saw your post & looked at World Nomads

Good policy & good price

Thanks for that tip I bought their standard 100k plan

Only $251 for 3 months ?