Work permit canceled without notice

[vic666]

Dear All, I agreed with my employer to work in a nearby country, where he has a branch. We agreed on some terms of employment but didn't sign anything. Procedures to issue a business visa in the new place of employment started before we sign any agreement and the wok permit was promptly canceled. According to what is written in my contract, cancellation of work permit is equal to termination of employment without notice. The real reason behind this is that more foreigners are coming to work with us and work permits are limited to the number of Thai employees. So one farang goes to work abroad and one is replaced in Bangkok. So far nothing unusual.

What happened yesterday change the all perspective: we didn't reach an agreement on the new employment abroad, so the all thing folded. I was told the work permit has been canceled, the non immigrant B won't be renewed, basically I will be receiving the salary as usual and will be free to work from any country, like a digital nomad, without any visa or work permit related to any country. Which may suits me, actually.

My questions are:

1. if I decide to stop working for this jerk, am I entitled to severance pay according to Thai laws? As my work permit was canceled to make room for another farang without my consent, I didn't actually resign. I was terminated.

2. if the answer to point 1 is yes, I assume this has to end up in court. Do you think I should go talk to a Thai lawyer and let him handle further communications with the company?

3. if the answer is no, I'd better be a digital nomad with a monthly salary...

Thank you for your attention,

vic666

[ubonjoe]

1. If you were terminated without cause or notice you are entitled to severance pay.

2. You should contact the local Department of Employment office of the Labor Ministry to make a complaint. It may not have to go to court.

[vic666]

Thank you Ubonjoe. I will do so on Monday.

[overherebc]

Labour office only, don't go near a lawyer. ?

[Sydebolle]

It's your lucky day, my friend. 

Since you were not properly terminated according to the Labour Protection Act (the employer cannot prove having terminated your employment nor is there any written proof, that you terminated the deal from your side) you are still employed, i.e. the employer has to officially terminate you - OR - reinstate the work permit. 

Depending on your paperwork you are entitled to severance payments according to the Labour Protection Act, paragraph 118 which compensates so and so many month's salaries - depending on your time of employment. Once you have that money in the bank, then you sue them for "unfair dismissal" which will ring again money into the till, usually another month salary per year (or part thereof) of employ. 

I've done all that; you might want to get some legal advice from Khun Sunee, http://www.kss.co.th/firm-members.html#Sunee, who is a legal pit bull. It might not even go to court as your employer will be offered to compromise, depending on their willingness, which you then can either accept or take it all the way to court. Will take a while but - according to what you wrote - as sure as money in the bank. Good luck! 

[Time Traveller]

20 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

1. If you were terminated without cause or notice you are entitled to severance pay.

2. You should contact the local Department of Employment office of the Labor Ministry to make a complaint. It may not have to go to court.

Doesn't sound like he was terminated. He said he "....will be receiving the salary as usual and will be free to work from any country,....."

The only thing cancelled was the work permit. So no severence pay needed

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, Time Traveller said:

Doesn't sound like he was terminated. He said he "....will be receiving the salary as usual and will be free to work from any country,....."

The only thing cancelled was the work permit. So no severence pay needed

There is no proof he will be paid when working in another country as the employer can't show a signed contract. The labor office has proof of termination, the work permit has been cancelled. So, yes, severance pay. 

[overherebc]

11 hours ago, Sydebolle said:

It's your lucky day, my friend. 

Since you were not properly terminated according to the Labour Protection Act (the employer cannot prove having terminated your employment nor is there any written proof, that you terminated the deal from your side) you are still employed, i.e. the employer has to officially terminate you - OR - reinstate the work permit. 

Depending on your paperwork you are entitled to severance payments according to the Labour Protection Act, paragraph 118 which compensates so and so many month's salaries - depending on your time of employment. Once you have that money in the bank, then you sue them for "unfair dismissal" which will ring again money into the till, usually another month salary per year (or part thereof) of employ. 

I've done all that; you might want to get some legal advice from Khun Sunee, http://www.kss.co.th/firm-members.html#Sunee, who is a legal pit bull. It might not even go to court as your employer will be offered to compromise, depending on their willingness, which you then can either accept or take it all the way to court. Will take a while but - according to what you wrote - as sure as money in the bank. Good luck! 

Why pay a lawyer when the same procedure will happen with the labour office for free?

[JackThompson]

56 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Why pay a lawyer when the same procedure will happen with the labour office for free?

I think the 1st part was the labor-office part ("... severance payments according to the Labour Protection Act,..."), and the lawsuit (2nd part) is where the lawyer comes in - the proceeds of which would pay his fee. 

[overherebc]

8 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I think the 1st part was the labor-office part ("... severance payments according to the Labour Protection Act,..."), and the lawsuit (2nd part) is where the lawyer comes in - the proceeds of which would pay his fee. 

Time frame to go through that process in Thailand and then actually get the money?

[JackThompson]

7 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Time frame to go through that process in Thailand and then actually get the money?

Good question - and can affect whether a person's method of permitted-stay is a factor.

 

@Sydebolle - what was your experience in terms of time for the two steps?

[Sydebolle]

3 hours ago, overherebc said:

Why pay a lawyer when the same procedure will happen with the labour office for free?

Thais are better dealing with other Thais - simple as that; and trust me, it has more impact, if a professional law firm is doing the calls and the memos 8-) 

[Sydebolle]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Good question - and can affect whether a person's method of permitted-stay is a factor.

 

@Sydebolle - what was your experience in terms of time for the two steps?

The severance payment issue was "mediated" within two weeks; a deadline given by my lawyers. The "unfair dismissal" was solved within days - total time frame might have been three months, mainly because the "unfair dismissal" got floated once the severance payment was credited by the bank only.

[overherebc]

30 minutes ago, Sydebolle said:

The severance payment issue was "mediated" within two weeks; a deadline given by my lawyers. The "unfair dismissal" was solved within days - total time frame might have been three months, mainly because the "unfair dismissal" got floated once the severance payment was credited by the bank only.

My wife got severance on 7 years of contract work within a week and it cost her nothing. Company had to put the disputed money into an account, a week later it was awarded to my wife who put all her own paper work together. Two contracts 1 x 4 year and 1 x 3 year and tax records of unbroken salary payments of 7 years. Not difficult.

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, Sydebolle said:

Thais are better dealing with other Thais - simple as that; and trust me, it has more impact, if a professional law firm is doing the calls and the memos 8-) 

"Thais are better dealing with other Thais"

Nonsense, nationality doesn't matter, depends on skills.

While with any other procedure a law firm would add considerably, it isn't needed when the labor office is handling it for you. they scare the employer enough.

[DJ54]

OP you’ve a lot of decisions. If you think your employer won’t stiff working from another country make sure to think it over and get a

contract in writing with all details you want. 

 

If he’s cancelled your WP without notice he’s got no problem to 

do it again. If you leave the country he might say you left on your

own and would be your word against his. 

 

Best set of luck and hope all works out for you.

[overherebc]

22 minutes ago, DJ54 said:

OP you’ve a lot of decisions. If you think your employer won’t stiff working from another country make sure to think it over and get a

contract in writing with all details you want. 

 

If he’s cancelled your WP without notice he’s got no problem to 

do it again. If you leave the country he might say you left on your

own and would be your word against his. 

 

Best set of luck and hope all works out for you.

Not sure if a contract written in Thailand would be ok for work in another country. 

[scorecard]

9 hours ago, overherebc said:

Why pay a lawyer when the same procedure will happen with the labour office for free?

Agree, the ministry folks have a history of being very helpful in cases like this and will hold your hand through any action.

 

Lawyer totally not needed.

 

 

[overherebc]

6 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Agree, the ministry folks have a history of being very helpful in cases like this and will hold your hand through any action.

 

Lawyer totally not needed.

 

 

Unless you have a vested interest, dare I mention?

[onlycw]

On 9/14/2018 at 7:46 AM, ubonjoe said:

1. If you were terminated without cause or notice you are entitled to severance pay.

2. You should contact the local Department of Employment office of the Labor Ministry to make a complaint. It may not have to go to court.

Joe is  t h e  authority in VISA questions. Here, I beg to differ respectfully:

 

The Labour Dept. is a waste of time, period.

 

Go streight to the LABOUR COURT. Bring a translator or bilingual friend.

Bring your documents and get the ball rolling.

 

The Thai labour court will set a hearing and give you an attorney. Bring the translator again!

 

Trust me, the court will push very hard for a settlement (=> severance pay). You might give and take a little, as is normal in negotiations. Not sure how long you have been working here and whether you may get 6 months, more or less severance.

 

The Labour Dept. may say "give us 6 weeks, we will respond in writing by say November 18th".

...

NO LAWYER NEEDED for Labour Court. But if you show up without a translator, they won't help you.

 

No fees. And the hearing will take place within a month.

 

Good luck!

[Sydebolle]

On 9/15/2018 at 2:08 PM, FritsSikkink said:

"Thais are better dealing with other Thais"

Nonsense, nationality doesn't matter, depends on skills.

While with any other procedure a law firm would add considerably, it isn't needed when the labor office is handling it for you. they scare the employer enough.

Then we have to agree to disagree; I took my file to the lawyers after the labour department was poking noses for a while and told me, that they told the employer .....
Once the lawyer did the call, things started to move with greased lightning. Difference is, that one is bureaucratic government and the other side is private industry ?