Big Joke to fly to England to interview teen who claimed rape on Koh Tao

[rkidlad]

Just now, Just Weird said:

You can't answer my question?

Can Big Joke speak English well?

No. No, he can’t. 

[Just Weird]

1 minute ago, rkidlad said:

Her word plus her friend’s. Next...

Oh, you mean the bloke who took her to the beach instead of taking her back to the hostel when she was drunk and left her there unconscious, either raped or to be raped?  Credibility in the extreme.

[rkidlad]

1 minute ago, Just Weird said:

Oh, you mean the bloke who took her to the beach instead of taking her back to the hostel when she was drunk and left her there unconscious, either raped or to be raped?  Credibility in the extreme.

So she was raped? Was she not raped? What’s your point? 

[AlexRich]

9 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

Your belief is based on what?  Her word alone?  Brilliant.

 

No ... her family, friends, the journalists who interviewed her ... along with many Thais and expats who understand what is possible on Koh Tao. 

 

Your belief is in a default position that a girl is not a rape victim unless it's recorded on a camera and witnessed by a dozen people ... and even then I suspect that you'd claim she was acting out a "rape fantasy" ... you're a sad old man.

Edited September 15, 2018 by AlexRich

[Huayrat]

Name says it all.. That he is..

Edited September 15, 2018 by Huayrat

[cass74]

2 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

Why not?  Why not have an opinion about a drunk girl who claims, with  no evidence so far, to have been raped, a girl who so far also has made no official complaint about the rape to the RTP?  Talking about it in the press doesn't count as a complaint to the police.

 CCTV not working or there maybe would have been more evidence

 

There is the t shirt, her friends cooberating account, her injuries (cuts etc) which  should have witnesses and maybe photographs 

there is her account, I think it’s fair to not presume she’s lying and listen to her account fairly 

there is previous allegations against the same person which the victim isn’t going to have been aware of 

 

the % of false rape allegations is low and I’ve not heard a valid reason yet for one in this case 

 

She tried to report as soon as she felt safe to do so 

Some rape victims don’t come forward for years 

[cass74]

2 hours ago, Just Weird said:

With permission they can conduct an interview of someone who refuses, so far, to be interviewed, except by a couple of cash-paying rags!

She had previously spoke to UK police after Thai police refused to log the crime before the article

Only spoke to UK press after Thai police publicly slandered her

[cass74]

2 hours ago, Just Weird said:

I'd love to hear your justification for calling the opinions some of us have about this girl "unwarranted".  Over to you, if you've got anything.

 

PS, your name's not Issy, is it?

Unwarranted justifications to say she’s lying:-

 

She went to full moon party, nobody yet knows what she did at KP, and even if it turns out she did end up going so what - never heard of shock

 

not reporting it at KT, I wouldn’t have

 

saying she didn’t report it, when her and her friend said they tried to

 

speaking to Uk press to defend herself (after being publicly slandered by Thai police)

 

I could go go on but I feel it’s pointless 

 

 

[cass74]

2 hours ago, Just Weird said:

Oh, you mean the bloke who took her to the beach instead of taking her back to the hostel when she was drunk and left her there unconscious, either raped or to be raped?  Credibility in the extreme.

Conveniently forgetting he was drugged too

[cass74]

And that the bars are on the beach and the way back to your hostel / hotel is often along the beach

 

[wotsdermatter]

Guess he must be tired of flying within Thailand and wants to broaden his knowledge base by going to England.  At least he will get a "well earned" rest from his local activities.  Incidentally, is he, or anybody in the police or government, aware that without permission from the Home Office, he has no authority or permission to conduct a police investigation within the bounds of the U.K.?  Therefore, his activity will be illegal and could get him into trouble with the "real" police over there.

 

'nuf sed 

[a977]

On ‎9‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 1:09 PM, Raymonddiaz said:

Why is he doing that? He can't speak English. Why not send someone else who could speak the language? Free advertising I suppose! 

Just trying to get him out of someone's hair until after election' seems moving him sideways to assist old Fatty isn't working out to well!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

[animalmagic]

9 hours ago, Ks45672 said:

The fact she told the story to her mother, bf and uk friends in the next days does not make them into witnesses who can legally verify the story

Hearsay evidence of a crime is permitted in some circumstances.  One of which is the early report of a sexual crime and the persons offering this evidence are allowed to testify on the victim's apparent state of mind and level of distress after the alleged crime.  Judges would generally allow this as it tends to give an insight into their behaviour after the alleged sexual crime and therefore tend to verify or disprove a claim.

[joebrown]

8 hours ago, Just Weird said:

I have never said that nothing untoward ever happens there.

Are you having difficulty reading what I wrote? I know you didn't say it, but one only has to read through your deluge of posts to easily form the opinion that is what you think!

Have a look at an English dictionary to understand the difference between "think' and "say'. You might learn something.

[lvr181]

16 hours ago, Nip said:

No you don't understand. Go check yourself and prove me wrong. I've no intention of enlightening you. Wallow in your ignorance. This is a serious matter and I wait you to prove me wrong. You won't because I'm 100% correct.

"Laws" in Thailand are often selectively applied. And any reasonable or knowledgeable person who knows anything about the country knows that.

 

So, whilst you maybe correct (or not) about the female officer, who says it is going to happen? Sadly for too many, the RTP cannot or will not enforce road rules, as just one example! 

[joebrown]

8 hours ago, Just Weird said:

Oh, you mean the bloke who took her to the beach instead of taking her back to the hostel when she was drunk and left her there unconscious, either raped or to be raped?  Credibility in the extreme.

I must apologise for my previous post when I said you think nothing untoward ever happens on Koh Tao.

This quote of yours clearly states that having been left alone on the beach she might be raped. What made you think that?

Edited September 16, 2018 by joebrown
REmove a sentence

[Ks45672]

34 minutes ago, animalmagic said:

Hearsay evidence of a crime is permitted in some circumstances.  One of which is the early report of a sexual crime and the persons offering this evidence are allowed to testify on the victim's apparent state of mind and level of distress after the alleged crime.  Judges would generally allow this as it tends to give an insight into their behaviour after the alleged sexual crime and therefore tend to verify or disprove a claim.

You can't legally witness something that you didn't witness.... 

The mother and bf were on the other side of the world... 

The friends in Thailand who saw her the next day could  only say she seemed distressed or upset if that's what they noticed at the time

 

Even if they had a suspect in custody with dna evidence , he could still claim they had some drinks and sex and nobody could prove there was any drugs or  rape involved 

 

 

 

[joebrown]

12 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

They did want to interview her while she was in Thailand. She was told to report to the correct jurisdiction police in Koh Tao, but instead she decided to only report the loss of some items for an insurance claim, meet her boyfriend at a full loon party and then do a disappearing act sharpish. She didn`t even bother to report the matter to the British Embassy for their support. The next thing is a statement from mummy berating the police and the island. 

 

Another point, the boyfriend and friends she was with have all gone quite. Why? Because they too know this rape claim is a load of bull because no one has come forward as witnesses to offer their support.

If I  believe what I read in the news and on TVF , that Koh Tao is a popular destination for adventure/fun seekers then I tend to believe the photos J L Crabb  posts showing hundreds of party goers in bars and on the renowned Koh Tao Pub Crawl. It appears to be an idyllic, but often busy island.

Consequently,  what I don't understand is the total absence of witnesses (and frequent lack of CCTV), when it comes to explaining the murders, suicides, robberies disappearances, etc.  If there were witnesses, why don't they ever come forward? I think it's strange, to say the least!

[animalmagic]

Just now, Ks45672 said:

You can't legally witness something that you didn't witness.... 

The mother and bf were on the other side of the world... 

The friends in Thailand who saw her the next day could  only say she seemed distressed or upset if that's what they noticed at the time

 

Even if they had a suspect in custody with dna evidence , he could still claim they had some drinks and sex and nobody could prove there was any drugs or  rape involved 

 

 

 

I never said they could.  The mother, boyfriend and friends are entitled to testify on the victim's state of mind after an alleged sexual offence as she reported to them.  Courts consider this as valuable testimony to prove or disprove the alleged offence.  I apologise for being unable to quickly unearth a more similar case, but this seems to fit the bill.

 

Please attached extract below -

i.) Thai Supreme Court Decision No. 7008/2554: At trial, Victim testified that she did not resist the acts of rape committed by Defendant because Defendant was her father and that she loved him. However, during the investigation, Victim told Social Services and the Public Prosecutor that she did tell Defendant to not rape her, that Defendant continued to do so anyway, and that she was too physically weak to resist further. The Court held that although hearsay, the statement made by Victim during the investigation was more believable than her testimony at trial due to the condition, character, origin, and circumstantial facts of the statement.

Edited September 16, 2018 by animalmagic
typo

[animalmagic]

Just now, animalmagic said:

Even if they had a suspect in custody with dna evidence , he could still claim they had some drinks and sex and nobody could prove there was any drugs or  rape involved 

Again not factually correct.  If a police investigation commences immediately or shortly after the alleged rape then physical evidence can be obtained from physical examination of the victims body and from internal examinations to show that some sort of coercive force was used or that the sex was violent to some degree.  I'm afraid I cannot advise on how quickly the bodily or internal damage to the victim will heal, but it will take some time.  Medical professionals experienced in these examinations will be able to advise and give expert evidence thereafter to corroborate or disprove a claim.

Blood tests will easily show the presence of any drugs and the amount will reduce over time as per the victim's normal metabolic rate; again tending to verify any claim of drugs used at a certain time earlier.

[Ks45672]

1 minute ago, animalmagic said:

I never said they could.  The mother, boyfriend and friends are entitled to testify on the victim's state of mind after an alleged sexual offence as she reported to them.  Courts consider this as valuable testimony to prove or disprove the alleged offence.  I apologise for being able to quickly unearth a more similar case, but this seems to fit the bill.

 

Please attached extract below -

i.) Thai Supreme Court Decision No. 7008/2554: At trial, Victim testified that she did not resist the acts of rape committed by Defendant because Defendant was her father and that she loved him. However, during the investigation, Victim told Social Services and the Public Prosecutor that she did tell Defendant to not rape her, that Defendant continued to do so anyway, and that she was too physically weak to resist further. The Court held that although hearsay, the statement made by Victim during the investigation was more believable than her testimony at trial due to the condition, character, origin, and circumstantial facts of the statement.

That's child abuse /incest /rape of a minor by the father  and legal Guardian so I think they would have to give the child the benefit of the doubt to ensure it didn't happen again in that case, what punishment did the father get in that case? 

 

If cctv was not deleted then maybe it could be used to help the girl and see if she looked inebriated while leaving the bar with the alleged rapist and it would be a great help to identify him 

 

If they both  left the bar in good spirits after some drinks and walked to the beach I think it will turn into a case of "He said /She said"  with neither side having a strong enough case to prove or disprove the others accusations 

 

 

[The Teacher]

Big Joke will move heaven and earth to save the reputation of this Island as the big bosses have to much pull with PM, He said before No Evidence, hmmmm maybe not so sure now. Spending or wasting money to fly to England ????. I hope the press gives him a super warm reception.

[lanista]

Is he going to travel to the UK wearing his brown  police uniform?  LOL  LOL

That'll be worth a look.

 

Will he get a visa ??  Will the  BKK embassy issue a visa ?

Whats he going to achieve in UK that he couldnt have done here?

Is he taking his wife or mai noi with him?

Harrods?

Who's paying for the trip?

 

[Crash999]

On 9/14/2018 at 2:18 PM, car720 said:

This was of course my first reaction but then I realized that nothing is gained.  Even if he believes her story, if true, then what is he going to do?  This case is colder than Jack the Ripper by now.

This is Thailand. How many times have you heard of a new policy or something else declared with fanfare only to be completely walked back later. If Big Joke finds what he calls new evidence then he most certainly will do what he wants with it, and no one will dare question the reversal. 

[animalmagic]

Just now, Ks45672 said:

That's child abuse /incest /rape of a minor by the father  and legal Guardian so I think they would have to give the child the benefit of the doubt to ensure it didn't happen again in that case, what punishment did the father get in that case? 

 

If cctv was not deleted then maybe it could be used to help the girl and see if she looked inebriated while leaving the bar with the alleged rapist and it would be a great help to identify him 

 

If they both  left the bar in good spirits after some drinks and walked to the beach I think it will turn into a case of "He said /She said"  with neither side having a strong enough case to prove or disprove the others accusations 

 

 

I have absolutely no idea of the punishment, although I have my preferences on what it should be. 

If you read my post I did say it was NOT a completely similar case but I used it to demonstrate the possibility of using witnesses who did not actually see an alleged offence.  In a rape case a report by the victim to persons other than the police within a reasonable time after the alleged offence CAN be used as evidence.

CCTV evidence is useful but, in many jurisdictions, is subject to specific handling procedures to ensure it has not been tampered with, and therefore an accurate depiction of what happened.  Even then it can only show an apparent state of inebriation or influence of drugs; this should be backed up with blood tests.  I have no idea if the CCTV was deleted or not but I agree it would be very helpful.

Rape cases in the past used to be he said/she said on too many occasions and evidence dug up to show bad character or loose sexual morals by both parties.  Courts now look at the behaviour of the victim after the alleged offence as this can give them insight into the veracity of their claims.

I have no idea if a rape occurred or not as there is at present insufficient evidence for me to draw my own personal conclusions, even then it will only be my own personal opinion based on PROVEN evidence.

[Crash999]

For people who say that the woman would never declare that she was raped if it didn't happen, here's a little story.

 

Several years ago I was living in Singapore with my girlfriend at the time. We had been together for about three years, originally dating casually and one thing led to another and she never left my apartment. I would fly in and out on business and she would also take trips with friends and family around the region. 

 

One day after she came back from a trip she was in tears and told me that she had been raped in Bangkok. I was shocked and asked her what happened. She told me a story about how a friend of hers introduced her to a guy at dinner and the guy drove her back to the hotel, but stopped in a remote location first and raped her. I immediately wanted to contact the police but she said she was more concerned about STDs and pregnancy and wanted to go to a hospital.

 

In the end she convinced me she didn't want the police involved as she didn't want to relive the trauma and being Thailand they'd probably do nothing anyway. And she didn't want me to confront her friends about it as it wasn't their fault. I agreed.

 

Time went by and I noticed some warning signs that something was up. Mysterious calls, texts, her behavior seeming a bit off. At the time she would use Skype to call so I installed a program that would record every call. 

 

A day or two later when she was in the shower I listened to the calls. Many of them were to one man. And wouldn't you know it, she was cheating on me with the guy she met on the trip and this was the same person that she claimed had raped her. I confronted her and she confessed, that she hadn't used protection and was worried about STDs and pregnancy. And those loving playful words on the call were out of boredom, because I wasn't paying enough attention to her. 

Needless to say, her effort to turn it around and blame me didn't go over too well and that was the end of our relationship. 

 

So coming back to this case, I very much understand why someone would tell their friends and family that they had been raped if it didn't happen. And it also explains the actions afterwards- not contacting the embassy, not going to a hospital, breaking up with her BF and hanging around with the new guy, etc. I suspect it wasn't the woman who contacted Samui Times but her mom who seemed to be very outspoken. 

 

I might be completely wrong here, but it's definitely not out of the realm of possibilities that the story was made up and she never expected it to get so much attention, just sympathy from family and friends. 

Edited September 16, 2018 by Crash999
typo

[animalmagic]

Just now, Crash999 said:

For people who say that the woman would never declare that she was raped if it didn't happen, here's a little story.

Very true, some people lie and some tell the truth.  As stated earlier, I have no idea if she is telling the truth or not.  Police officers should be the ones best equipped to find out based on their experience and interview techniques.

Sad to hear your story, hope you've found someone better.  Had a similar experience when phoning a girl who answered the phone thinking it was her other boyfriend not me.  Interesting and amusing, but poorly thought out, excuses after were fun.

[brianthainess]

On 9/14/2018 at 4:01 PM, Odysseus123 said:

Ah...Thai Law..

 

Thailand looks foolish every day.

 

I wonder why?

So then why do they look foolish to the rest of the world

[brianthainess]

15 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

WRONG. A female victim of sexual assault or rape may request to be interviewed by a female officer, but the police are under no legal obligations to do so.

So what will happen in a few years when there are no female police left ?

[Just Weird]

9 hours ago, cass74 said:

 CCTV not working or there maybe would have been more evidence

 

There is the t shirt, her friends cooberating account, her injuries (cuts etc) which  should have witnesses and maybe photographs 

there is her account, I think it’s fair to not presume she’s lying and listen to her account fairly 

there is previous allegations against the same person which the victim isn’t going to have been aware of 

 

the % of false rape allegations is low and I’ve not heard a valid reason yet for one in this case 

 

She tried to report as soon as she felt safe to do so 

Some rape victims don’t come forward for years 

"CCTV not working or there maybe would have been more evidence"

The CCTV was working, but, as is normal practice, it is recorded over after a period of time and this "rape" allegedly happened three months ago.

 

"There is the t shirt, her friends cooberating account, her injuries (cuts etc) which  should have witnesses and maybe photographs"

How is the t-shirt evidence?  Evidence of what?  Has it been given to the police for examination and results determined.  How exactly does a t-shirt confirm a rape story?

Her friends were not there and have not corroborated her account of the alleged rape!   That is apart from Martin who took the drunk, drowsy girl to the beach and left her there unconscious.  It is safe to assume that as she describes their sitting on the beach together and she was alone when she woke up.

What injuries, where have they been documented or even mentioned?

 

"there is her account, I think it’s fair to not presume she’s lying"

Why is it fair to presume that? Based on what?  This girl has not yet even officially reported the allegation to the RTP, neither has she been interviewed by the police. Her story does not add up.

 

"there is previous allegations against the same person"

Which person?  Baxter has not alleged that any particular person was the alleged attacker?  She's not even mentioned a nationality!

Edited September 16, 2018 by Just Weird