Video: New Zealander collides with Thai motorcyclist going the wrong way on bridge in Rayong

[richard_smith237]

37 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

 

Taken out of context. The whole paragraph read:

 

''Expect the unexpected, slow down, move over. The road is not busy. He had plenty room around him. Defensive driving is so important here, as indeed everywhere''.

 

Slow down, back off and move in behind the pick up. Save your overtaking maneuver until after the bridge.

 

I do wonder. If the vehicle had been driven by a Thai, how many of the Thai baiting fraternity would have chimed in with comments to the affect: ''Typical Thai, driving too fast in the outside lane with no regard for safety. Me first, me first''. But, of course, he wasn't a Thai and falangs don't do that sort of thing do they.

 

Do they?

 

 

 

I'd like to think that if it were a Thai driving people would still clearly see that the motorcycle was 100% at fault. 

 

There are other factors at play such as getting back into the central lane, but there was also another 'undertaking' maneuver going on... I think it is well within reasonable bounds to for anyone in a similar situation to remain in their lane a little longer. 

 

With regards to 'delaying the overtaking maneuver until after the bridge'.. well whats to say there won't be a motorcycle coming straight at you on the inside (left most, lane 1) ???....  its certainly less expected in the outside (right most, lane 3)...  I suppose this is why most people drive in the central lane (middle lane, lane 2) whenever they can which forces undertaking.

 

The simple fact is - someone was driving in the wrong direction straight into oncoming traffic making an accident pretty much unavoidable. 

Edited September 19, 2018 by richard_smith237

[Kieran00001]

1 hour ago, transam said:

So the bike had road and verge to his left to move too, what was wrong with his reactions then....?

 

Have you thought the biker may well have been on a suicide mission...?

 

Yes, and that is what investigations are for, what is that you have against them?

[transam]

5 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Yes, and that is what investigations are for, what is that you have against them?

Tell me about Thai investigators.. The accident tech they have available...?

[lvr181]

1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

 

No, I have not made any claim to who is guilty, I just think that going by his lack of reaction it should be investigated, as it would be anywhere normal.  And as for your question, I don't know, hence why it should be investigated, an idea that seems to bother you.

The guilt clearly lays with the motorcyclist (despite any "claimed" extenuating but unproven circumstances about the car driver), he was travelling in the wrong lane! What's so hard for anyone to accept that? Sheesh! The guy is dead, unfortunately, because of his own stupid choice. 

[Kieran00001]

1 minute ago, transam said:

Tell me about Thai investigators.. The accident tech they have available...?

 

The tech, what you mean a tape measure and a table to look up the length of skid mark in?  I think they can manage that, so again, what is that you have against the idea of crashes being investigated, and why did you take me calling for an investigation as me wanting to hang the driver?  Hyperbole much?

[Kieran00001]

1 minute ago, lvr181 said:

The guilt clearly lays with the motorcyclist (despite any "claimed" extenuating but unproven circumstances about the car driver), he was travelling in the wrong lane! What's so hard for anyone to accept that? Sheesh! The guy is dead, unfortunately, because of his own stupid choice. 

 

It appears to me to be mostly his fault, however if it were determined that the car driver was speeding, not paying attention, drunk, etc, then some blame still lays with them.  In the West we investigate crashes with a frequent outcome being that the blame is shared, sometimes equally, sometimes not.  I have no idea why you want to "accept" something that you don't know the full story of, what is it that you and others fear from an investigation?

[transam]

1 minute ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

The tech, what you mean a tape measure and a table to look up the length of skid mark in?  I think they can manage that, so again, what is that you have against the idea of crashes being investigated, and why did you take me calling for an investigation as me wanting to hang the driver?  Hyperbole much?

You are just trying to hang a guy faced with daft stuff...Do ABS rides have skid marks...?

I will ask you again..Why didn't the biker use the vacant road to his left...?

Come on, WHY...?

[lvr181]

7 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

It appears to me to be mostly his fault, however if it were determined that the car driver was speeding, not paying attention, drunk, etc, then some blame still lays with them.  In the West we investigate crashes with a frequent outcome being that the blame is shared, sometimes equally, sometimes not.  I have no idea why you want to "accept" something that you don't know the full story of, what is it that you and others fear from an investigation?

OMG - you think that the "accident investigators" are going to do the same job that you would expect that modern western nation investigators would do? Reality check my friend!

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts and the replies have been removed. 

[Torrens54]

Absolute Moron Motorbike Rider and sadly, so typical of the fools who do the same thing day after day in the belief they have a Divine Right to flout the law.

[tony5150]

On 9/17/2018 at 11:45 PM, wgdanson said:

However, the Kiwi was driving in the 'fast' lane with a clear 'middle' lane, he had just overtaken the light coloured pick-up. Why didn't he move over. He had 4 or 5 seconds to take evasive action

More like 2 seconds. There just wasn't enough time to change the outcome.

[Parsve]

Not only a myth, I have me my self-been in an accident when a thai woman, blindfolded on one eye smashed into my car in Phichit my car was standing in a parking place and she said that it was my fault and asked me to pay for the damage on her car.

[wgdanson]

2 hours ago, Parsve said:

Not only a myth, I have me my self-been in an accident when a thai woman, blindfolded on one eye smashed into my car in Phichit my car was standing in a parking place and she said that it was my fault and asked me to pay for the damage on her car.

Did she understand those two Anglo-Saxon words .... ...?

[wgdanson]

9 hours ago, transam said:

A broken down vehicle would not be coming towards you at speed would it...If kiwi was doing 60mph and the bike was doing 80mph we have a 140mph situation...

Glad to see you can add up, better than the Thai teacher in another post.

[Kieran00001]

7 hours ago, transam said:

You are just trying to hang a guy faced with daft stuff...Do ABS rides have skid marks...?

I will ask you again..Why didn't the biker use the vacant road to his left...?

Come on, WHY...?

Again, I am not trying to hang anyone, I just think these things should be investigated, not sure why you're struggling to see the difference, perhaps its because of your own willingness to hang people based on little info, but that is not something I do.

 

Yes, ABS leaves skid marks, dotted ones.

 

Again, I have no idea why any of it happened the way it did, perhaps an investigation would clear up your questions.

 

[ChakaKhan]

On 9/18/2018 at 1:21 AM, Chelseafan said:

Unfortunately Thai's don't always see it that way and would likely blame the New Zealander  - If he wasn't in Thailand then this tragic event wouldn't have occurred.

 

Confirmed! Is what thai cops said to me when My leg was smashed on my mbike here..it happened cos I was here!

[richard_smith237]

2 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

Again, I am not trying to hang anyone, I just think these things should be investigated, not sure why you're struggling to see the difference, perhaps its because of your own willingness to hang people based on little info, but that is not something I do.

 

Yes, ABS leaves skid marks, dotted ones.

 

Again, I have no idea why any of it happened the way it did, perhaps an investigation would clear up your questions.

 

 

What more do you need to know?....   

 

 

In a situation less obvious I can understand the need for an investigation. However, the video leaves little doubt. 

 

OR... are you wondering why there was no apparent reaction from the NZ driver ?

 

In which case, why? are you looking to proportion some blame to him for not avoiding the incident?

 

Looking for ABS dotted skid marks is sketchy a best and requires a highly trained accident investigator on scene to interpret the tread scatter IF there even is a mark present and to do so in perfect weather conditions within a matter of hours to offer at best an educated 'range' of events (speed)....   ultimately, the investigation and interpretation of ABS skid marks in Thailand is a no-goer.

 

I suppose that if we were in the US or Europe its possible that on the right day this incident may be given greater attention and a full investigation afforded.... but to decide what? That the NZ driver hit is breaks within xx timeframe or not?....  If he didn't could he still be to blame in any way or form?

 

As a layman, this video shows that this accident occurred well outside of the 'grey area' which could imply some proportion of blame to the NZ driver. I suppose what you are looking for is something which may imply that there could have been measures taken to mitigate the severity of the outcome... i.e. lighting reactions to... well.. do what exactly? shift lanes in a second?

 

Your point (if I understand the point you are trying to make) is that there needs to be some expert oversight before proportioning blame for and cause of accidents, but how far would you go?... what are you looking for? 1% blame to the NZ guy? for what purpose?... just so someone is always to blame?...  where is the line in the sand which prevents us from being at fault for simply being there at the time things went wrong?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by richard_smith237

[Aupee]

On 9/18/2018 at 12:21 PM, Chelseafan said:

Unfortunately Thai's don't always see it that way and would likely blame the New Zealander  - If he wasn't in Thailand then this tragic event wouldn't have occurred.

 

Of course no Thai could possibly have had that accident!? What me have an accident !!! loss of face would be to much to bear.

[Aupee]

19 hours ago, Moonlover said:

 

Taken out of context. The whole paragraph read:

 

''Expect the unexpected, slow down, move over. The road is not busy. He had plenty room around him. Defensive driving is so important here, as indeed everywhere''.

 

Slow down, back off and move in behind the pick up. Save your overtaking maneuver until after the bridge when you know it's safe to do so, not think it is.

 

I do wonder. If the vehicle had been driven by a Thai, how many of the Thai baiting fraternity would have chimed in with comments to the affect: ''Typical Thai, driving too fast in the outside lane with no regard for safety. Me first, me first''. But, of course, he wasn't a Thai and falangs don't do that sort of thing do they.

 

Do they?

 

 

82must be wonderful to be as perfect you as yes expect the unexpected, do drive not drive today the unexpected may happen like a motor bike driving the wrong way in the fast lane. I know I won,t get up today you just don't know what to expect but it will be the unexpected bit gobbledy gook how can you expect the unexpected if you prepare for it its expected

[Aupee]

On 9/18/2018 at 12:23 PM, sanemax said:

Although no one has stated that .

I suppose the next reasoning will involve who has the right to use the overtaking lane? With the flow or against the flow

[NanLaew]

On 9/18/2018 at 6:19 AM, MrJohnson said:

Me too. Driving here is very stressful, requires nerves of steel and total concentration. I find a  3 hour drive Bangkok to Hua Hin is mentally exhausting.  I've started taking the train. Slow but relaxing.

Yup, sure is.

 

[Kieran00001]

9 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

What more do you need to know?....   

 

 

In a situation less obvious I can understand the need for an investigation. However, the video leaves little doubt. 

 

OR... are you wondering why there was no apparent reaction from the NZ driver ?

 

In which case, why? are you looking to proportion some blame to him for not avoiding the incident?

 

Looking for ABS dotted skid marks is sketchy a best and requires a highly trained accident investigator on scene to interpret the tread scatter IF there even is a mark present and to do so in perfect weather conditions within a matter of hours to offer at best an educated 'range' of events (speed)....   ultimately, the investigation and interpretation of ABS skid marks in Thailand is a no-goer.

 

I suppose that if we were in the US or Europe its possible that on the right day this incident may be given greater attention and a full investigation afforded.... but to decide what? That the NZ driver hit is breaks within xx timeframe or not?....  If he didn't could he still be to blame in any way or form?

 

As a layman, this video shows that this accident occurred well outside of the 'grey area' which could imply some proportion of blame to the NZ driver. I suppose what you are looking for is something which may imply that there could have been measures taken to mitigate the severity of the outcome... i.e. lighting reactions to... well.. do what exactly? shift lanes in a second?

 

Your point (if I understand the point you are trying to make) is that there needs to be some expert oversight before proportioning blame for and cause of accidents, but how far would you go?... what are you looking for? 1% blame to the NZ guy? for what purpose?... just so someone is always to blame?...  where is the line in the sand which prevents us from being at fault for simply being there at the time things went wrong?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am not looking to attribute blame on anyone, I seek an investigation so that blame can be attributed on the guilty, whoever that may be.  And there is very good reason for doing so, perhaps the driver has a medical condition they are unaware of, or perhaps they have one they are aware of but are continuing to drive regardless of its obvious danger.  Perhaps the driver was looking at their phone at the time, or asleep, or didn't have their glasses on, in which case they should be charged, that is not about always having someone to blame, it is about keeping dangerous fools off the road.  I cannot fathom why you keep going around in circles with this, but for the last time, I am not blaming anyone, I just think that any accident where someone dies should be properly investigated so as to help prevent further accidents.

[Spidey]

3 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

I am not looking to attribute blame on anyone, I seek an investigation so that blame can be attributed on the guilty, whoever that may be.  And there is very good reason for doing so, perhaps the driver has a medical condition they are unaware of, or perhaps they have one they are aware of but are continuing to drive regardless of its obvious danger.  Perhaps the driver was looking at their phone at the time, or asleep, or didn't have their glasses on, in which case they should be charged, that is not about always having someone to blame, it is about keeping dangerous fools off the road.  I cannot fathom why you keep going around in circles with this, but for the last time, I am not blaming anyone, I just think that any accident where someone dies should be properly investigated so as to help prevent further accidents.

In Thailand? 

[Kieran00001]

53 minutes ago, Spidey said:

In Thailand? 

 

I am not saying I expect it to happen, but that it should, do you disagree?

[lvr181]

Give it a rest, you've had your fun. You're flogging a dead horse. I am thinking you cannot be that dumb not to see that? ? ? 

 

Not going to happen in LOS! TIT.

 

Don Quixote and windmills comes to mind.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2018 by lvr181
Additional wording

[transam]

2 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

I am not looking to attribute blame on anyone, I seek an investigation so that blame can be attributed on the guilty, whoever that may be. 

So you ain't worked that out yet...?......?

 

Let me help you, a bloke on a motorcycle was in the fast lane of a one way street riding in the wrong direction, which means he was heading straight towards three lanes of oncoming traffic..

 

Now if you want to blame any driver using those three lanes because a nut job was on a kamikaze mission then l fear you may have the same ploblem as the biker..

[Kieran00001]

20 minutes ago, transam said:

So you ain't worked that out yet...?......?

 

Let me help you, a bloke on a motorcycle was in the fast lane of a one way street riding in the wrong direction, which means he was heading straight towards three lanes of oncoming traffic..

 

Now if you want to blame any driver using those three lanes because a nut job was on a kamikaze mission then l fear you may have the same ploblem as the biker..

 

No, unlike you I don't feel like I can work out all the contributing causes of an accident from looking at a dashcam video, hence my call for an investigation, it is you who wants to hang someone, not me, have you at least worked that much out yet?  Did you even think to consider that the driver may have been drunk and were they not they may have had reactions that allowed them to avoid hitting them?  The first thing that should be done in any fatal accident is take blood tests of all the drivers involved.

[Spidey]

6 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

the insurance companies are always keep to push for that as then they don't have to pay out.

If the blame is apportioned, both insurance companies pay out apportionately.

[Spidey]

Just now, Kieran00001 said:

No, unlike you I don't feel like I can work out all the contributing causes of an accident from looking at a dashcam video

Really? Don't apply for a job as an accident investigator. I worked it out in a heartbeat.

[Kieran00001]

4 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Really? Don't apply for a job as an accident investigator. I worked it out in a heartbeat.

 

I don't think the bike riders insurance company would like you working for them, just to throw all their potential savings from the claim into the wind just because of what you reckon.  Great contribution though, clearly you're a thinking man.