Ford ordered to pay Bt23 million to 296 owners of faulty vehicles

[webfact]

Ford ordered to pay Bt23 million to 296 owners of faulty vehicles

By The Nation

 

Bangkokbiz news

 

Ford Thailand was ordered on Friday to pay compensation worth Bt23 million to buyers of two of its models that were found to have defective clutch and gear systems.
 

The lawsuit was filed against Ford Sale and Services (Thailand) by 308 buyers of Ford Fiesta and Ford Focus models who were demanding compensations worth Bt24.7 million.

 

The suit was filed on April 3, 2017, and the South Bangkok Civil Court accepted the suit for review on May, 2018.

 

The suit alleged that Ford sold cars that were defective in the manufacturing process.

 

All 308 co-plaintiffs and their lawyers were present for the reading of the verdict.

 

The court said Ford manufactured about 90,000 versions of the two models a year but the company found only 500 vehicles with the defect and so far no-one has been injured or killed because of the problem.

 

Although Ford admitted that the cars involved had defective clutch and gear systems, they could be fixed and the parts could be changed so the two models were not regarded as dangerous substandard goods. As a result, the court has no power to force the company to buy the cars back from the purchasers or recall models that were already in the market.

 

But Ford was ordered to compensate the buyers of the defective cars for the loss of the market value, Bt20,000 for each repair and Bt1,000 per day for the loss of use of the vehicle during its repair.

 

The 296 plaintiffs will receive compensations worth Bt15,000 to Bt240,000 for a total amount of Bt23 million, plus interest at the rate of 7.5 per annum from the lawsuit date.

 

The court order Ford to pay the compensations within seven days.

 

The court also rejected suits filed by 12 buyers, as six of them modified the cars to use LPG gas and the others failed to send their cars for regular maintenance service.

 

Jinna Yaem-uam, a lawyer, said the verdict was a victory for consumers and showed that if consumers join forces, they could fight and win against a giant conglomerate.

 

Jinna said the case would set a precedent that consumers will not be taken advantage of by giant firms.

 

"This is a historic case because [the company] was sued based on the amendment to the Civil Code on May 25, 2015, on class action lawsuits," Jinnna said.

 

Korpsak Noomnoi, a representative of the plaintiffs said consumers have achieved their goal and the plaintiffs were satisfied up to a level.

Korpsak said the plaintiffs would consider appealing the verdict.

 

The plaintiffs have 30 days to consider a possible appeal.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/breakingnews/30354957

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2018-09-21

 

[Justgrazing]

17 minutes ago, webfact said:

As a result, the court has no power to force the company to buy the cars back from the purchasers or recall models 

Worth a try though ..

[Fex Bluse]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

"This is a historic case because [the company] was sued based on the amendment to the Civil Code on May 25, 2015, on class action lawsuits," Jinnna said.

No, it's a historic case because Thais are all too eager to sue foreign companies who will try to follow Thai malleable laws. 

 

For all the many Thai companies involved in various scandal over the years, how many have ever been ordered to pay? Thais are too cowardly to go after their own but happy to target foreign money 

 

I can almost guarantee Thai defense and prosecution would have secretly been colluding to get the guilty verdict smug in their plan 'let the farang pay na' 

Edited September 21, 2018 by Fex Bluse

[zaphod reborn]

1 hour ago, Fex Bluse said:

No, it's a historic case because Thais are all too eager to sue foreign companies who will try to follow Thai malleable laws. 

It is a historic case because it is the first trial of a class action suit in Thailand and shows that the change in the civil procedure code, based heavily on the U.S. model, works to raise consumer protection.

 

The defendants were actually the Thai Ford dealerships because it was primarily a breach of warranty case, and not a products liability case.  The verdict would have been much larger in the west, as the Thai courts only award miniscule damages.  For those reasons, you are completely off base in your Thai-bashing, that this verdict had anything to do with punishing farang. 

 

I worked for Ford on this matter pre-litigation.  It should have been settled, as Ford had done in the States.  Good result for the plaintiffs.

Edited September 21, 2018 by zaphod reborn

[Fex Bluse]

9 hours ago, zaphod reborn said:

It is a historic case because it is the first trial of a class action suit in Thailand and shows that the change in the civil procedure code, based heavily on the U.S. model, works to raise consumer protection.

 

The defendants were actually the Thai Ford dealerships because it was primarily a breach of warranty case, and not a products liability case.  The verdict would have been much larger in the west, as the Thai courts only award miniscule damages.  For those reasons, you are completely off base in your Thai-bashing, that this verdict had anything to do with punishing farang. 

 

I worked for Ford on this matter pre-litigation.  It should have been settled, as Ford had done in the States.  Good result for the plaintiffs.

I will await the first consumer victory against a big Thai corporation. There are plenty of recent stories of Thai companies that have done wrong, we shouldn't have go wait long to hear a verdict and order to pay restitution. 

[Thian]

So Ford confirmed that the cars had production faults....were they built in Thailand??

[zaphod reborn]

4 hours ago, Fex Bluse said:

I will await the first consumer victory against a big Thai corporation. There are plenty of recent stories of Thai companies that have done wrong, we shouldn't have go wait long to hear a verdict and order to pay restitution. 

As I wrote, the verdict was against Thai-owned Ford dealerships.  But, if you're looking for a deep pocket Thai company, it won't be long for the disability access cases togo to trial against BTS and a variety of environmental cases to proceed against Thai companies.

Quote

A number of high profile class actions have been taken such as thousands of disabled commuters who sued BTS two years ago for failing to make the BTS Skytrain accessible. https://gps-legalconsulting.com/publications/class-action-lawsuits-in-thailand/

 

[thaichiro]

I think they meant to say that the Defendants could appeal the verdict.

And yes, the cars were made in Thailand.

Remember, “ At Ford quality is job 1”!

[connda]

2.48 M THB each.  Happy consumer.  Really, really happy lawyers.

[1337markus]

Thailand is not the only country Ford is in a class action law suit over issues of poor motor/gearbox , same is happening in the land of kangaroos.

[Henryford]

15 minutes ago, connda said:

2.48 M THB each.  Happy consumer.  Really, really happy lawyers.

Er what, doesn't it work out at 77,000 baht each. I doubt that would even pay the lawyers fees.

[Fex Bluse]

1 hour ago, zaphod reborn said:

As I wrote, the verdict was against Thai-owned Ford dealerships.  But, if you're looking for a deep pocket Thai company, it won't be long for the disability access cases togo to trial against BTS and a variety of environmental cases to proceed against Thai companies.

 

I know a bit about global legal disputes. I would be surprised if judgements like this are not paid from global legal budgets- funds originating outside Thailand. 

 

That aside, if you think any class action suit against a large Thai company will go to verdict or even be accepted for hearing, I must disagree. I won't even name some of the Thai companies involved in recent misgivings. 

 

Mining companies 

Food production companies 

Construction 

 

No reasonly clued up person living in Thailand could ignore the systemic corruption and unethical business practices that are ritually practiced here. 

 

Let's see who is right - me or you. I am waiting... 

[Oztruckie]

1 hour ago, Henryford said:

Er what, doesn't it work out at 77,000 baht each. I doubt that would even pay the lawyers fees.

Lawyers will probably take about 20% of the total payout before the consumer gets anything, got a mate in Oz who owned one of these shit boxes, he was involved in the class action against ford over the faulty clutch gearbox problem, he was told that if he received any payout it would be after lawyers took 20%.

[Henryford]

77,000 x 20% = 15000 baht. A lawyer in the UK would charge that per hour.

Edited September 22, 2018 by Henryford

[dallen52]

3 hours ago, Thian said:

So Ford confirmed that the cars had production faults....were they built in Thailand??

Yes.

Using the six speed dual clutch transmission. 

Its actually a two clutch manual transmission that is changed using a computer module. 

Which is a global problem. 

 

I've got a 2012 Fiesta. 

Its covered by the extension of warranty. 

But many times it has died for no apparent reasons. 

Losing drive, pulling away when no gear selection. 

Scary stuff. 

Mine is as noisy as all hell.

Great little car to drive. 

Just unfixable noise and problems. 

Mines sat in dealerships for about 20 days, plus I forked out in excess of 20,000 baht for things they suggested that made no difference. 

No compo for me sadly. 

 

They really don't have a permanent fix.

Its trial and error for 2011 to 2015 models. 

Just keep resetting the transmission and changing the clutch. 

 

Edited September 22, 2018 by dallen52

[dallen52]

2 hours ago, thaichiro said:

I think they meant to say that the Defendants could appeal the verdict.

And yes, the cars were made in Thailand.

Remember, “ At Ford quality is job 1”!

Yes it is. 

The transmission is not unique to Ford. 

It's off the shelf and used by several other companies. 

[Ossy]

20 hours ago, webfact said:

The court said Ford manufactured about 90,000 versions of the two models a year but the company found only 500 vehicles with the defect and so far no-one has been injured or killed because of the problem.

If the court did actually say '90,000 versions', then I'm sure either the spokesperson or the court got his information grossly incorrect. 'Cars' or 'machines' are the words this chump was looking for. If only those people, involved in getting a message across to the outside world, could take that little extra care over their wording. But that's only a little grumble, compared to the issue raised by Ford's statement. Unless there's been another error, 500 defective vehicles, per 90,000 sold, equates to a faulty/failure rate of 1 faulty vehicle for every 180 sold . . . . and they're saying that's OK? . . . jeez!

 

And, for the average claimant to be receiving less than B80,000 would also suggest that Ford will be leaving the court, thanking their lucky stars, since had, let's say, half of the 296 claimants been entitled to a replacement vehicle, Ford would have been a huge B130 million, plus, out of pocket. Perhaps, with the court taking the more measured view that compensations should only relate to realistic out-of-pocket damages, everyone should be walking away happy. Hell's bells . . . that makes for a change.

[LivinLOS]

2 hours ago, connda said:

2.48 M THB each.  Happy consumer.  Really, really happy lawyers.

Basic math fail.. 

 

Try +- 75k average.. 

[newnative]

Wonder whatever happened to those poor Mazda owners who got sued by Mazda for complaining about a problem with their cars.

[zaphod reborn]

2 hours ago, Fex Bluse said:

I know a bit about global legal disputes. I would be surprised if judgements like this are not paid from global legal budgets- funds originating outside Thailand. 

 

That aside, if you think any class action suit against a large Thai company will go to verdict or even be accepted for hearing, I must disagree. I won't even name some of the Thai companies involved in recent misgivings. 

 

Mining companies 

Food production companies 

Construction 

 

No reasonly clued up person living in Thailand could ignore the systemic corruption and unethical business practices that are ritually practiced here. 

 

Let's see who is right - me or you. I am waiting... 

I worked directly for Ford, and know the indemnification agreements with the Thai dealerships.  Most of the issues raised in the litigation related to poor warranty service.  Believe what you want about the litigation, but I had direct involvement.  BTW, most of the environmental claims against mining companies, involve foreign companies, but have not been filed.  The class actions for environmental claims that have been filed are against recyclers, waste disposal companies and refineries, all Thai-owned.

[Thaidream]

Actually- the main problem of the Ford focus and Fiesta has been the 6 speed automatic transmission that clanks and misses as it goes through the gears.  I had one in the US that the dealer even admitted was a 'problem'.  The Thai litigants want new cars as replacements- they have 30 days to appeal.  If no appeal- the money is paid after 7 days.  Normally, the court sets the amount that the lawyers get which comes out of the total settlement.

 

The class action system is what forces industries to set safety standard; product reliability and act honorably with customers.  There have bee huge class action settlements in the US involving cigarette makers know their product makes people sick; industries polluting waters knowingly and some auto makers not recalling their products when the vehicle is knowingly defective.  

[chang1]

2 hours ago, newnative said:

Wonder whatever happened to those poor Mazda owners who got sued by Mazda for complaining about a problem with their cars.

Is this a way of getting around the defamation laws? Sue before publicising your complaint. If Andy Hall and the Finland NGO had sued Natural Fruit would Andy have been dragged through the Thai courts as he was? 

Could Ford have sued for defamation if Ford had won?

Edited September 22, 2018 by chang1

[jgarbo]

7 hours ago, thaichiro said:

I think they meant to say that the Defendants could appeal the verdict.

And yes, the cars were made in Thailand.

Remember, “ At Ford quality is job 1”!

Sorry, Ford are crap. They built one good car, the GT40. 

[xtrnuno41]

Guess it is just like with the Lehman brothers bank, you do some things just to pass and making big money.

And then specially for those, the ones on top. As common employee you are just collateral damage. The same with your customers. 

Quality doesnt matter at all, its just a slogan to sell. Every company does, however never stand for it.

THey do know, law is expensive for the common people, so no problem. Guess Ford was really surprised.

[weegee]

9 hours ago, 1337markus said:

Thailand is not the only country Ford is in a class action law suit over issues of poor motor/gearbox , same is happening in the land of kangaroos.

I think all the Fords sold in Aus are assembled here in Thailand....but hell...dont quote me on this.

[tifino]

6 minutes ago, weegee said:

I think all the Fords sold in Aus are assembled here in Thailand....but hell...dont quote me on this.

that Fiesta/Focus transmission problem is widespread experienced here in Oz

 

 

luckily my mazda (Ford copied it) missed being affected

[Fex Bluse]

7 hours ago, zaphod reborn said:

I worked directly for Ford, and know the indemnification agreements with the Thai dealerships.  Most of the issues raised in the litigation related to poor warranty service.  Believe what you want about the litigation, but I had direct involvement.  BTW, most of the environmental claims against mining companies, involve foreign companies, but have not been filed.  The class actions for environmental claims that have been filed are against recyclers, waste disposal companies and refineries, all Thai-owned.

That's fine. It does not change my opinion, however. I will be shocked if a court rules in favor of complaints in a class action against a large Thai company. Thais know you don't go up against big and powerful Thais or you could be end up disappeared. Let's see what happens 

[mogandave]

10 hours ago, connda said:

2.48 M THB each.  Happy consumer.  Really, really happy lawyers.

That higher math gets a little rugged huh?

[dallen52]

20 hours ago, Ossy said:

If the court did actually say '90,000 versions', then I'm sure either the spokesperson or the court got his information grossly incorrect. 'Cars' or 'machines' are the words this chump was looking for. If only those people, involved in getting a message across to the outside world, could take that little extra care over their wording. But that's only a little grumble, compared to the issue raised by Ford's statement. Unless there's been another error, 500 defective vehicles, per 90,000 sold, equates to a faulty/failure rate of 1 faulty vehicle for every 180 sold . . . . and they're saying that's OK? . . . jeez!

 

And, for the average claimant to be receiving less than B80,000 would also suggest that Ford will be leaving the court, thanking their lucky stars, since had, let's say, half of the 296 claimants been entitled to a replacement vehicle, Ford would have been a huge B130 million, plus, out of pocket. Perhaps, with the court taking the more measured view that compensations should only relate to realistic out-of-pocket damages, everyone should be walking away happy. Hell's bells . . . that makes for a change.

No lemon law in Thailand. 

Mugs laws maybe, but that's another story. 

 

The USA and Australia and UK have compensated differently. 

Buy backs were allowed.

No fault found and things gone wrong are common industry terms.

Toyota is the number one with up to 2%

All lists are published as common knowledge. 

 

I'm ex Ford, 

I missed out on the class action. No compo for me.

Much out of pocket cost and inconvenience. 

They always seem to find something that they think also needs looking at. 

But cannot fix the actual problem.

 

About 30% of Fiesta, Focus from 2011 to 2015 were affected. 

In different ways..

Two item numbers are specifically involved. 

14M01 and 14M02.

Dual clutch and Transmission control module. 

Easy to check.

 

Sadly the technical levels of expertise and support are not in place in Thailand. 

Customer service is agency staff with little tech savvy, and dare I say, a sheet of paper to read from regards this concern.

Something I have raised before.  To no avail. 

Edited September 23, 2018 by dallen52

[dallen52]

14 hours ago, weegee said:

I think all the Fords sold in Aus are assembled here in Thailand....but hell...dont quote me on this.

Correct.

The save Australia plan was to build 40,000 fiesta focus types in Australia. 

The Ford manufacturing Thailand was set up instead..

AAT at Rayong also builds plus the Ranger Mazda BT50. Everest.

Ford Thailand base Labour rate 60 baht hour.

Ford India rate $3.50 hour.

Ford China rate $5 hour.

Ford Australia when closing $28 per hour.

 

Plus all your other costs.

 

All materials and parts come from a global system so the killer is the Labour.