New TM 30 report required after same day return border crossing?

[ningnong]

I'm subject to TM 30 day reporting. Would leaving the country and returning the same day require a visit to immigration to do a new TM 30?

I was back in my own home the same day I left and re-entered Thailand. But I've read online that having a new departure card would require a new TM 30 report.

[nasa123]

In Phuket yes new Tm 30 report.

[elviajero]

As you left the country and ended your stay -- according to the letter of the law -- a new report (TM.30) confirming your new stay would be required. But you will need to confirm with your local office.

[CMBob]

Presuming a TM30 has been filed for your "home" address and you leave the country and return to that same address (as the OP seems to imply), I don't believe any new TM30 report needs to be filed; however, you do need to update it by going to Immigration yourself (they'll enter some data....likely new departure card number and dates...and put a new date stamp on your TM Receipt of Notification if you have it) or by having whoever filed the TM30 for you do the updating. 

[jackdd]

16 hours ago, elviajero said:

As you left the country and ended your stay -- according to the letter of the law -- a new report (TM.30) confirming your new stay would be required. But you will need to confirm with your local office.

You should say "according to my interpretation of the law" ?

Because the law is not clear about this topic it depends on the respective immigration office

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

In Chiang Mai it would be required, under threat of finning 1600 Baht!

Edited September 22, 2018 by ChiangMaiLightning2143

[moe666]

12 minutes ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

In Chiang Mai it would be required, under threat of finning 1600 Baht!

Not true unless they have changed, last year went to Laos for 5 days didn't report and when I did my extension of stay nothing said. They looked at old paper work and didn't say a word. I am at same address

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

How would they really  know if you did not tell them?

I had two senior Chiang Mai Immigration Officers  tell me opposite things while they were sitting at the same table at Building Three Airport when they started this rubbish a couple years ago.

 

The final answer was literally "up to you" in English like talking to an bargirl in a dodgy Karaoke. I can understand buereacracy but I have never experienced a country where the rule change by Provincial office. Is this normal?

[Vacuum]

21 minutes ago, moe666 said:

Not true unless they have changed, last year went to Laos for 5 days didn't report and when I did my extension of stay nothing said. They looked at old paper work and didn't say a word. I am at same address

They have changed, this year.

[Andrew Dwyer]

Sounds like Phuket and Chiangmai are a couple of places they enforce this rule !!

Luckily my Immigration ( Ayutthaya) has a policy of doing the TM30 one time only.

 

Seems like with the different understanding of the rules ( by IO’s ) going on the only way to find out is to visit your Immigration and ask .

[The Theory]

Not in Bangkok. Unless you change your address.

[StevieAus]

1 hour ago, moe666 said:

Not true unless they have changed, last year went to Laos for 5 days didn't report and when I did my extension of stay nothing said. They looked at old paper work and didn't say a word. I am at same address

Well you are lucky, I live  in Chiang Mai Province and last year went across into Burma for the day crossing at Masai.

The next time I did the 90 day report they asked why the House Master

( my wife) hadn’t lodged the TM 30 form.

It seems they could pick up from the departure card which are barcoded that I had left the country and returned, the fact that I have my own House Book doesn’t matter to Immigration.

Also advised that the House Master could be fined for not lodging the form.

 

[BritManToo]

9 minutes ago, StevieAus said:

It seems they could pick up from the departure card which are barcoded that I had left the country and returned, the fact that I have my own House Book doesn’t matter to Immigration.

Shame they can't pick up your reported address from your new arrivals card.

[Nong Khai Man]

Not Required in Nong Khai IF You return to you're own / Wifes Home as registered earlier......Straight from the mouth of Immigration Officer at Friendship Bridge................

[StevieAus]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Shame they can't pick up your reported address from your new arrivals card.

They could and the fact that it hasn’t changed makes it more farcical,

Its obviously a control thing or creating work as there is no fee involved.

[OJAS]

21 hours ago, ningnong said:

Would leaving the country and returning the same day require a visit to immigration to do a new TM 30?

Which is your local immigration office?

 

If, by chance, it is the same as mine (Maptaput), I can definitely confirm, on the basis of personal experience (with trips to foreign pastures lasting considerably longer than 1 day) that the answer to your question is "No".

[elviajero]

5 hours ago, jackdd said:

22 hours ago, elviajero said:

As you left the country and ended your stay -- according to the letter of the law -- a new report (TM.30) confirming your new stay would be required. But you will need to confirm with your local office.

You should say "according to my interpretation of the law" ?

Because the law is not clear about this topic it depends on the respective immigration office

I am not interpreting the law. Just stating facts. And it is the enforcement of the law that varies between offices, which is why I told the OP to confirm with their local office.

 

When you leave the country your stay ends ( Immigration Act. Section 39 : After having received permission for temporary entry into the Kingdom , if the alien leaves the Kingdom it is considered that his temporary entry permit has expired.). When you re-enter -- without a re-entry permit -- it is considered a brand new visit/stay and you are subject to the same law/requirements whether it's your first or Nth visit.

 

The immigration system would show the OP arriving at an address (TM.30 report) and then leaving the country (effectively leaving that address). It would then show them arriving in the country again and would require confirmation of the address they are staying at form the responsible person at that address. Whenever or not that procedure is fully enforced is down to the individual office.

 

 

[ubonjoe]

14 minutes ago, elviajero said:

I am not interpreting the law. Just stating facts. And it is the enforcement of the law that varies between offices, which is why I told the OP to confirm with their local office.

I would say you are interpreting section 38 by bringing section 39 into the discussion.

This what section 38 states.

"Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned."

The line stating this "receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed" is to state who must be reported which is meant to exclude those with permanent residency from the requirement. It in no way means the existing report ends when the permission to stay ends.

 

[Orton Rd]

when will all the offices have a uniform policy on everything, enforced the same by every officer?

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

when will all the offices have a uniform policy on everything, enforced the same by every officer?

When the Immigration Bureau issues a directive stating the exact requirements for TM30 reporting.

[elviajero]

3 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I would say you are interpreting section 38 by bringing section 39 into the discussion.

This what section 38 states.

"Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned."

The line stating this "receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed" is to state who must be reported which is meant to exclude those with permanent residency from the requirement. It in no way means the existing report ends when the permission to stay ends.

"It in no way means the existing report ends when the permission to stay ends." Of course it does, they left the country!  How can you still be staying at a property when you've physically left the country. The Act is not time specific so it doesn't matter if you stay outside the country for 10 mins or 10 days the same rules apply. I quoted section 39 because it spells out that someones temporary stay in the country ends when they leave.

 

Section 38 applies to every foreigner with temporary permission to stay from the second they enter the country. No exceptions. It's purpose is to track the whereabouts of the foreigner after they have entered the country. Having made a new entry to the country, and received temporary permission to stay, the responsible person at the address the OP is staying at is responsible for notifying immigration. The only question is whether or not the local office enforce a law/rule most foreigners and property owners don't know about.

[elviajero]

17 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

when will all the offices have a uniform policy on everything, enforced the same by every officer?

Sometime never!

[ubonjoe]

18 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Of course it does, they left the country!  How can you still be staying at a property when you've physically left the country.

That is your interpretation. I stated mine.

Evidently many immigration offices use my interpretation since they only want one if you change addresses.

[jackdd]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

When you leave the country your stay ends ( Immigration Act. Section 39 : After having received permission for temporary entry into the Kingdom , if the alien leaves the Kingdom it is considered that his temporary entry permit has expired.).

Maybe you should read again what you quoted, it says "it is considered that his temporary entry permit has expired" it doesn't say something like "his stay as referred to in section 38 has ended", that it means this is just your own interpretation

Edited September 22, 2018 by jackdd

[wgdanson]

4 hours ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Sounds like Phuket and Chiangmai are a couple of places they enforce this rule !!

Luckily my Immigration ( Ayutthaya) has a policy of doing the TM30 one time only.

 

Seems like with the different understanding of the rules ( by IO’s ) going on the only way to find out is to visit your Immigration and ask .

Same in Phitsanulok....I never did one in 6 years, but in and out of Thailand regularly.

[elviajero]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

That is your interpretation. I stated mine.

Evidently many immigration offices use my interpretation since they only want one if you change addresses.

Immigration are not interpreting the law, they are selectively enforcing it. Entirely different.

 

 

 

 

[jackdd]

Just now, elviajero said:

Immigration are not interpreting the law, they are selectively enforcing it. Entirely different.

I would say they are doing both ?

[elviajero]

11 minutes ago, jackdd said:

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

When you leave the country your stay ends ( Immigration Act. Section 39 : After having received permission for temporary entry into the Kingdom , if the alien leaves the Kingdom it is considered that his temporary entry permit has expired.).

Maybe you should read again what you quoted, it says "it is considered that his temporary entry permit has expired" it doesn't say something like "his stay as referred to in section 38 has ended", that it means this is just your own interpretation

Wow! Words, almost, fail me! 

 

If you leave a country you have left the country. If you leave the country the immigration record shows that you have left the country, therefore, you are no longer staying at the last known address. When you re-enter the country a new entry record is created and they do not where you are actually staying until a responsible person submits a TM.30. The reason for the law is so that immigration receive confirmation (from a third party) of where you are staying.

 

Someone that leaves the country and stays out 10 mins is under the same laws as someone that stays out 10 years. If believe someone returning to the same address after 10 years outside the country is exempt from the law, prove it.

 

The law is crystal clear and black and white. It is simply the enforcement of the law that varies.

[elviajero]

27 minutes ago, jackdd said:

27 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Immigration are not interpreting the law, they are selectively enforcing it. Entirely different.

I would say they are doing both ?

Section 38, the law, says that a responsible person must submit a TM.30 for a foreigner that has received temporary permission to stay within 24 hours of their arrival at an address.

 

Even though it is clearly stated in the immigration act, Bangkok immigration, don't, generally, insist/expect TM.30's are submitted except by hotels/guesthouses. Are they interpreting the law OR selectively enforcing the law?

[ningnong]

4 hours ago, OJAS said:

Which is your local immigration office?

 

If, by chance, it is the same as mine (Maptaput), I can definitely confirm, on the basis of personal experience (with trips to foreign pastures lasting considerably longer than 1 day) that the answer to your question is "No".

My office is Khon Kaen.

Based on the replies I think I'll just take my chances and not do a new TM30. If I have a problem in the future for failing to do a new TM30 at Khon Kaen I'll report back here. Thanks to everyone for their input.