May challenges EU as Brexit talks hit 'impasse', sterling tumbles

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Esso49 said:

Some of us fathomed it. That's why we left it to the millions of immigrants

Your immigrant issues might have more to do with UK's own policy to allow people from commonworld to move to UK. 

[billd766]

3 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Stop spreading nonsense. 

 

Don't you EVER do any research before you post a comment? I suppose that you didn't think to check before your post.

 

Unlike you I do check if I am unsure and if I am unsure I will say so. I sourced it from the Guardian so that you would not be able to claim that it was Wikipedia.

 

Of course you don't have to believe the facts just because they don't suit your agenda but I am sure that you will be able to find something somewhere to refute this.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/jun/13/ireland

 

Ireland today decisively rejected the Lisbon treaty on European Union reform, plunging the project into chaos.

Humiliated at the polls, the Irish prime minister, Brian Cowen, admitted the country's no vote had been a potential setback for Europe.

The European commission president, José Manuel Barroso, said he believed the treaty was still "alive", but was immediately contradicted by Luxembourg's prime minister, Jean-Claude Juncker – the longest serving leader in the EU - who said the Irish vote meant it could not enter into force in January 2009 as planned.

Less than 1% of the EU's 490 million citizens appear to have scuppered the deal mapped out in Lisbon that was meant to shape Europe in the 21st century.

Ireland was the only one of the 27 EU member states obliged to hold a referendum on the treaty.

The official figures from the counts in 43 constituencies revealed that 53.4% of voters had rejected the document, while 46.6% voted in favour – a difference of 109,164 voters.

Cowen will now have to travel to the Luxembourg summit and explain to his European counterparts how his country sunk the reform project.

Edited September 23, 2018 by billd766
added extra text

[metisdead]

Some inflammatory posts have been removed. 

[Nigel Garvie]

1 hour ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

oilinki,

 

UK suffers from a very serious attack of superiority complex, very serious

thats kinda the main problem - they just cannot fathom that UK is just another country in Europe

 

I know it is difficult to always separate the Little Englanders from the other counties in the Union, and UK is useful shorthand, but these other countries do not share the same superiority complex. My experience from travelling in Europe is that it is most often the people of Europe's larger nations who behave worst on the Mediterranean beaches and bars, puffed up with some inflated sense of their own importance. Maybe it is the same in LoS as well.

[oldhippy]

1 hour ago, Esso49 said:

Some of us fathomed it. That's why we left it to the millions of immigrants

And mind you, after Brexit, France and Belgium wil no longer have the duty to stop the transmigrants from going to the UK.

Our taxpayers are gratefull! & Our truck parking places will be safe again.

Calais? Never again!

 

PS. A transmigrant is a migrant on his way to the land of Milk & Honey, who does NOT seek asylum in Europe.

 

Brits, ENJOY!

 

 

[oldhippy]

I think I sense a shift in the opinions of Europeans on Brexit.

 

First we ignored it - after all, there is always something with the UK.

Next, we realised they are serious about it, and Europeans thought "Houston, we have a problem".

Now the opinion has shifted to: Goodbye, and don't forget to close the door firmly - YOU VILL BE BACK, on OUR terms.

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, oldhippy said:

I think I sense a shift in the opinions of Europeans on Brexit.

 

First we ignored it - after all, there is always something with the UK.

Next, we realised they are serious about it, and Europeans thought "Houston, we have a problem".

Now the opinion has shifted to: Goodbye, and don't forget to close the door firmly - YOU VILL BE BACK, on OUR terms.

 

Once UK really Brexits, I think there will be rather long pause to even think that UK could once again be part of EU. Perhaps it's an viable possibility in 2050's. Before that, the way world is moving these days, our current world order has changed few times already.

 

China is becoming the number one country in the world. India and African continent are following the suite. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

Don't you EVER do any research before you post a comment? I suppose that you didn't think to check before your post.

 

Unlike you I do check if I am unsure and if I am unsure I will say so. I sourced it from the Guardian so that you would not be able to claim that it was Wikipedia.

As I said. It was Ireland who decided to hold a referendum. It was Ireland who decided to hold a second referendum. It was the Irish electorate to vote against the treaty in the first referendum. And it was the Irish electorate to vote for the treaty in the second referendum. 

 

Where does your article say that the EU forced Ireland into any of those referendums (like the other poster suggested)?

 

 

Edited September 23, 2018 by welovesundaysatspace

[KiChakayan]

21 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

I think I sense a shift in the opinions of Europeans on Brexit.

 

First we ignored it - after all, there is always something with the UK.

Next, we realised they are serious about it, and Europeans thought "Houston, we have a problem".

Now the opinion has shifted to: Goodbye, and don't forget to close the door firmly - YOU VILL BE BACK, on OUR terms.

 

Actually I think they came mostly on our terms. But then came Maggie, amazing woman... And, somehow, while I've always had admiration for her, today most Brits despise her. In my opinion they prefer to ignore the fact that in 1979 UK was a budding third world nation and that Maggie and, ironically, the EU allowed them to regain status and competitiveness.

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, KiChakayan said:

Actually I think they came mostly on our terms. But then came Maggie, amazing woman... And, somehow, while I've always had admiration for her, today most Brits despise her. In my opinion they prefer to ignore the fact that in 1979 UK was a budding third world nation and that Maggie and, ironically, the EU allowed them to regain status and competitiveness.

"... the fact that in 1979 UK was a budding third world nation...."  All complete and utter baloney. Why do people make this stuff up? For the actual data see here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_largest_historical_GDP

[Esso49]

6 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

"... the fact that in 1979 UK was a budding third world nation...."  All complete and utter baloney. Why do people make this stuff up? For the actual data see here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_largest_historical_GDP

And before she had the power to screw the nation she screwed school children's nourishment. That is why she was called "Thatcher the milk snatcher". An absolute evil woman whose main preoccupation was to ensure London became the financial capital of the world, well actually with the help of her pal Ronald Reagan, and the deregulation of the banks, it became the money laundering capital of the world. Its still stands as a tribute to her.

[superal]

20 hours ago, stevenl said:

Nobody knows what they voted for, that is one of the big problems here.

People voted to either leave or stay in the union and  the center of the leave vote was 1/ immigration 

2/ EU bureaucracy  3/ Get back control of the country . To stay was orchestrated my Cameron , paid for out of public funds , based on scare tactics which many of the public saw through and that was ultimately his downfall . 

 

What was not foreseen was the dirty divorce & bully boy tactics from the EU negotiators who are trying to put fear into any other country that considers leaving the club . They are on the brink of losing 40 billion euros if they do not loosen their grip on the contentious matters .  

[anon537687643]

Reuters unbalanced junk again ! Sterling hasn’t tumbled ! Remember the days when we we could rely on news orgs BBC Reuter’s etc!


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[Chomper Higgot]

14 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

Don't you EVER do any research before you post a comment? I suppose that you didn't think to check before your post.

 

Unlike you I do check if I am unsure and if I am unsure I will say so. I sourced it from the Guardian so that you would not be able to claim that it was Wikipedia.

 

Of course you don't have to believe the facts just because they don't suit your agenda but I am sure that you will be able to find something somewhere to refute this.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/jun/13/ireland

 

Ireland today decisively rejected the Lisbon treaty on European Union reform, plunging the project into chaos.

Humiliated at the polls, the Irish prime minister, Brian Cowen, admitted the country's no vote had been a potential setback for Europe.

The European commission president, José Manuel Barroso, said he believed the treaty was still "alive", but was immediately contradicted by Luxembourg's prime minister, Jean-Claude Juncker – the longest serving leader in the EU - who said the Irish vote meant it could not enter into force in January 2009 as planned.

Less than 1% of the EU's 490 million citizens appear to have scuppered the deal mapped out in Lisbon that was meant to shape Europe in the 21st century.

Ireland was the only one of the 27 EU member states obliged to hold a referendum on the treaty.

The official figures from the counts in 43 constituencies revealed that 53.4% of voters had rejected the document, while 46.6% voted in favour – a difference of 109,164 voters.

Cowen will now have to travel to the Luxembourg summit and explain to his European counterparts how his country sunk the reform project.

It kind of scuppers the Brexiteers claim that member nations are dictated to by the EU.

[Chomper Higgot]

46 minutes ago, markaoffy said:

Reuters unbalanced junk again ! Sterling hasn’t tumbled ! Remember the days when we we could rely on news orgs BBC Reuter’s etc!


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Enjoy!

 

 

 

 

[SheungWan]

11 hours ago, Esso49 said:

And before she had the power to screw the nation she screwed school children's nourishment. That is why she was called "Thatcher the milk snatcher". An absolute evil woman whose main preoccupation was to ensure London became the financial capital of the world, well actually with the help of her pal Ronald Reagan, and the deregulation of the banks, it became the money laundering capital of the world. Its still stands as a tribute to her.

Free school milk was first stopped by the Labour Government in 1968 for Secondary School pupils.

[Chomper Higgot]

11 hours ago, SheungWan said:

"... the fact that in 1979 UK was a budding third world nation...."  All complete and utter baloney. Why do people make this stuff up? For the actual data see here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_largest_historical_GDP

Thatcher set the wheels in motion of reducing the share of the wealth the nation creates that was going to ordinary working people and handing that wealth to the now hyper wealthy.

[SheungWan]

15 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Thatcher set the wheels in motion of reducing the share of the wealth the nation creates that was going to ordinary working people and handing that wealth to the now hyper wealthy.

What Thatcher actually did was break the power of the unions. What Labour (or rather Corbyn's crew) want is a return to the pre-Thatcher era for the UK. About as useless as the Brexiteer nostalgia for old-style nationalism. Two sides of the same coin.

[sandyf]

19 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

The Irish did that a while ago and had to vote again until they got it right in the eyes of the EU commissioners.

It wasn't that straightforward. There was a question mark over the wording and amendments were made.

Any reference to a 2nd referendum is a misnomer, it was in fact a first referendum on the revised wording.

 

People are perfectly free to put their own interpretation on the validity of the amendments but at the end of the day the Irish did the voting, no one else.

[welovesundaysatspace]

2 hours ago, superal said:

People voted to either leave or stay in the union and  the center of the leave vote was 1/ immigration 

2/ EU bureaucracy  3/ Get back control of the country .

People only voted to leave the EU, not on any terms or future relationship. So any future relationship and terms are possible. 

 

2 hours ago, superal said:

What was not foreseen was the dirty divorce & bully boy tactics from the EU negotiators who are trying to put fear into any other country that considers leaving the club .

That’s nonsense. There isn’t even a “divorce” negotiation, as the negotiations are about the future relationships, not about leaving. 

 

2 hours ago, superal said:

They are on the brink of losing 40 billion euros if they do not loosen their grip on the contentious matters .  

No, they aren’t. The 39bn are the UK’s outstanding liabilities. Breaking contractual obligations isn’t something the U.K. wants to use as blackmail. 

[billd766]

16 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

As I said. It was Ireland who decided to hold a referendum. It was Ireland who decided to hold a second referendum. It was the Irish electorate to vote against the treaty in the first referendum. And it was the Irish electorate to vote for the treaty in the second referendum. 

 

Where does your article say that the EU forced Ireland into any of those referendums (like the other poster suggested)?

 

 

 

The why did Ireland hold another referendum a year later?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/oct/04/ireland-votes-yes-lisbon-treaty

 

In a dramatic political U-turn, Ireland has voted decisively in favour of the Lisbon treaty just 17 months after rejecting the European Union's package of reforms.

Two thirds of the Irish electorate backed the treaty – a result that EU president José Manuel Barroso described as a "great day for Europe and a great day for Ireland".

By late afternoon it was becoming clear that around 64% of the electorate had supported the treaty. Overall, the Yes vote was up by around 20% across the country. In June 2008, only 10 out of Ireland's 43 parliamentary constituencies voted in favour of Lisbon; in this referendum, 41 constituencies have endorsed it.

Last night, Irish opponents of Lisbon challenged David Cameron to give the British people a referendum on the EU's future if the Tories take power next year. Richard Greene, a leading figure in the anti-Lisbon Cóir movement, issued a direct public appeal to the Conservative leader to hold a referendum on Europe in the next British parliament.

Speaking at the main Dublin count in the RDS conference centre, Green told the Observer that the onus was now on Cameron to halt what he and other Irish No campaigners see as the drive towards an EU superstate.

"The British people were never colonised, so they will not be bullied. The first priority of a new British prime minister should be to fulfil the broken promises of successive British governments and give the British people that referendum," he said.

 

So if you didn't like the Brexit referendum then blame the Irish.

 

quote from the Guardian post above.

 

Richard Greene, a leading figure in the anti-Lisbon Cóir movement, issued a direct public appeal to the Conservative leader to hold a referendum on Europe in the next British parliament.

Speaking at the main Dublin count in the RDS conference centre, Green told the Observer that the onus was now on Cameron to halt what he and other Irish No campaigners see as the drive towards an EU superstate.

 

On the last paragraph about the British people were never colonised perhaps the author has forgotten the Roman invasion of something like 55 BC to around 450 AD, or the Danes, Angles Saxons, Jutes and Normans in the following 600 years.

[welovesundaysatspace]

18 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

The why did Ireland hold another referendum a year later?

Because Ireland is a sovereign state and decided to do so, even if you don’t like their decision.

 

18 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

In a dramatic political U-turn, Ireland has voted decisively in favour of the Lisbon treaty just 17 months after rejecting the European Union's package of reforms.

Two thirds of the Irish electorate backed the treaty

 

[ivor bigun]

And mind you, after Brexit, France and Belgium wil no longer have the duty to stop the transmigrants from going to the UK.
Our taxpayers are gratefull! & Our truck parking places will be safe again.
Calais? Never again!
 
PS. A transmigrant is a migrant on his way to the land of Milk & Honey, who does NOT seek asylum in Europe.
 
Brits, ENJOY!
 
 

They dont stop them now,so no change there

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[ivor bigun]

Thatcher set the wheels in motion of reducing the share of the wealth the nation creates that was going to ordinary working people and handing that wealth to the now hyper wealthy.

She gave us work after the unions destroyed our country aided by the sort of Labour govt that Corbyn wants in power again.

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[KiChakayan]

15 hours ago, SheungWan said:

"... the fact that in 1979 UK was a budding third world nation...."  All complete and utter baloney. Why do people make this stuff up? For the actual data see here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_largest_historical_GDP

Maybe if you took things with a pinch of salt you Bia Singh would taste better.

I know what the situation was in France and UK in those years. And I emigrated to Australia in 1981...

And don't say "France isn't Britain", since your so pertinent figures put them into the same boat.

[OJAS]

22 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Quite amusing how you accuse me of “kneejerk accusations” and suggest to “check your facts” while you fail to provide any evidence for the claim that “The Irish (...) had to vote again until they got it right in the eyes of the EU commissioners.” It’s pure nonsense; we could even say it’s an outright lie that “the EU commissioners” had any say in Ireland’s referendums.

So where on earth did I say that “The Irish (...) had to vote again until they got it right in the eyes of the EU commissioners.” in the post to which you were replying? Looks like yet another kneejerk reaction on your part, I think!

Edited September 24, 2018 by OJAS

[welovesundaysatspace]

8 minutes ago, OJAS said:

So where on earth did I say that “The Irish (...) had to vote again until they got it right in the eyes of the EU commissioners.”

User billd766 said that. I replied it’s nonsense, to which you replied “billd766 is actually spot on”. 

 

Therefore...

Quote

Yet another kneejerk reaction on your part, I think!

...next time better think back what you wrote before — saves YOU from kneejerk reactions like this. 

Edited September 24, 2018 by welovesundaysatspace

[baboon]

42 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

She gave us work after the unions destroyed our country aided by the sort of Labour govt that Corbyn wants in power again.

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Yeah, part-time and in a shoe shop where I was. That is, if you were lucky.

[ivor bigun]

Yeah, part-time and in a shoe shop where I was. That is, if you were lucky.

Tons of work ,all my mates had good jobs,it was a great time to be about ,yes i was a shop manager,and remember sitting in the dark because the unions were on strike ,no electricity, no buses or trains ,no rubbish collected she stopped all that crap, Labour at the time destroyed the country,she gave it back to us, she was by no means perfect but a thousand times better than what came before.

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[Kwasaki]

18 hours ago, oldhippy said:

And mind you, after Brexit, France and Belgium wil no longer have the duty to stop the transmigrants from going to the UK.

Our taxpayers are gratefull! & Our truck parking places will be safe again.

Calais? Never again!

 

PS. A transmigrant is a migrant on his way to the land of Milk & Honey, who does NOT seek asylum in Europe.

 

Brits, ENJOY!

I thought transmigrants will know after Brexit there will be nothing but doom and gloom in the UK, so why go and with no EU rules the prison ships await.

????  Ireland and Scotland and the Isle of White can been set aside for transmigrants .