UK opposition leader will back second Brexit vote if party wants it

[webfact]

UK opposition leader will back second Brexit vote if party wants it

By Elizabeth Piper and Kylie MacLellan

 

Britain's Labour Party Leader Jeremy Corbyn sits on stage at the annual Labour Party Conference in Liverpool, Britain, September 23, 2018. REUTERS/Hannah McKay

 

LIVERPOOL, England (Reuters) - British opposition leader Jeremy Corbyn said on Sunday he would back a second Brexit referendum if his Labour Party votes to pursue the move, heaping pressure on Prime Minister Theresa May, whose plans for a divorce deal with the EU have hit an impasse.

 

Corbyn, a veteran eurosceptic, has resisted growing demands to back a new "People's Vote" on the decision to quit the European Union, keen to keep those party members on board who voted in favour of Brexit at a 2016 referendum.

 

But the political landscape has changed since May's plans for Brexit -- the biggest shift in British policy for more than four decades -- were resoundingly rebuffed by the EU on Thursday, with any outcome of the negotiations more uncertain than ever.

 

With talk of a new election swirling after May's "Chequers" plan was all but shredded at an EU summit last week and chances of a disorderly departure that could damage the economy rising, the opposition party is under pressure to set the Brexit agenda.

 

At Labour's annual conference in the northern city of Liverpool, Corbyn, who in 1975 voted "No" to Britain's membership of the then-European Community, said he would act on the result of a debate in Labour on a second Brexit vote. But he was clear that he preferred a new election.

 

"Our preference would be for a general election and we can then negotiate our future relationship with Europe but let's see what comes out of conference," he told the BBC's Andrew Marr Show, saying Labour was ready to vote against any deal.

 

"Obviously I’m bound by the democracy of our party."

 

Labour is expected to discuss several motions on Brexit at its conference, and it remains unclear what the proposal on a second referendum might be -- it could be a clear backing of a vote or something less black-and-white.

 

Corbyn has long said that a "People's Vote" is not off the table for his party, and a source close to the leadership urged caution over an as-yet unknown motion, repeating the Labour leader's stance that he does not support a second referendum.

 

Len McCluskey, a Corbyn ally and leader of Britain's biggest trade union Unite, further muddied the water when he said any such second referendum "shouldn't be on: 'Do we want to go back into the European Union?'", adding people had voted in 2016 when Britain backed leaving the EU by a narrow 52-48 percent.

 

NEW ELECTION?

Corbyn wanted his conference to be an opportunity to sell his alternative vision for Britain's economy, pressing his argument for the renationalisation of rail, mail and utilities, and to rally the party for a possible early election.

 

But with Britain due to leave the EU in March, Brexit was likely to dominate the conference.

 

Thousands of supporters of a second vote marched through Liverpool's streets on Sunday to make their feelings known.

 

After weeks of both EU and British officials making positive noises about the prospects of clinching a divorce deal and one on a future trading relationship, the mood turned sour on Thursday in Salzburg, Austria when EU leaders came out, one by one, to criticise "Chequers" as unrealistic.

 

A tacit deal to try to offer her some support before she heads to what is going to be a difficult annual conference of her Conservative Party later this month was broken by some British diplomatic missteps.

 

May says she will hold her nerve in the talks, pressing the EU to come up with an alternative proposal to her Chequers plan, named after the prime minister's country residence where a deal was hashed out with her top ministers in July.

 

But the impasse with the EU has prompted some to predict an early election -- a notion Brexit minister Dominic Raab said was "for the birds".

 

While saying she will stick to her guns, May might have little chance but to change tack after a party conference where the deep divisions over Europe that have riven her Conservatives for decades will be in plain sight.

 

A senior pro-EU Conservative lawmaker, Nicky Morgan, said May would have to give ground on trade and customs arrangements with the EU to overcome the biggest hurdle to a withdrawal accord -- the prevention of a hard border between the British province of Northern Ireland and Ireland, a member of the EU.

 

And if Labour's Corbyn does come out with clear support for a second referendum, the pressure on the Conservatives to get any deal through parliament will only grow.

 

"We would vote it down if it didn't meet our tests in order to send the government, if it is still in office, straight back to the negotiating table," Corbyn said. "And if there is a general election and we are in office we would go straight to the negotiating table."

 

(Reporting by Elizabeth Piper; Editing by Mark Heinrich and Catherine Evans)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-09-24

 

[Chomper Higgot]

Since early this year I’ve been saying the Party Conferences would be very interesting for Brexit and Remain supporters alike.

 

The views of half the population are not being listened to

on Brexit, the party that starts listening to these ignored voices will win the next election.

[DoctorG]

So, will the nearly half that lose next time be getting a third ballot? Fourth? etc.

[terryw]

Labour will ignore a democratic vote to get into power. A slippery slope to dictatorship.

[leither69]

3rd, 4th?? What happened to democracy? It's done,. People are being manipulated into fear.  There's a real reason why!! the EU is running scared and other "controlling influences" are pushing for a status quo. They don't like citizens taking ownership of their future.

[welovesundaysatspace]

44 minutes ago, terryw said:

Labour will ignore a democratic vote to get into power. A slippery slope to dictatorship.

If a referendum is a “slippery slope to dictatorship” you should (a) double-check what dictatorship means (and what a referendum is), and (b) think twice on what “slippery slope to dictatorship” you got to this point.  

[welovesundaysatspace]

3 minutes ago, leither69 said:

 the EU is running scared and other "controlling influences" are pushing for a status quo. 

What does the EU or “other ‘controlling influences’” have to do with your referendums? Stop spreading nonsense and read less conspiracy theory books. 

Edited September 24, 2018 by welovesundaysatspace

[Bluespunk]

2 hours ago, terryw said:

Labour will ignore a democratic vote to get into power. A slippery slope to dictatorship.

How is offering the people a vote a “slippery road to dictatorship”?

[Bluespunk]

2 hours ago, DoctorG said:

So, will the nearly half that lose next time be getting a third ballot? Fourth? etc.

That’s democracy. 

[billd766]

19 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

That’s democracy. 

 

But only if your side wins the vote. If not then demand another vote etc until you get your own way.

 

That isn't democracy. that is being a poor loser.

Edited September 24, 2018 by billd766
added extra text

[johnnybangkok]

With so many polls now predicting a swing to 60% in favour of remaining in the EU (now that more people understand the consequences of Brexit) then a new referendum needs to be addressed. 

I know so many people who originally voted for Brexit who now, armed with much more information than 2 years ago, would choose to remain. 

The difference in numbers was so close the last time (approx. 1 million people) you have to say it was too close a call on such an important issue. If those in favour of Brexit are so confident it was 'the will of the people' then they have nothing to fear in another referendum.

And no it won't undermine democracy and it certainly won't lead to a 'dictatorship'. That's just scaremongering nonsense.   

[Bluespunk]

4 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

But only if your side wins the vote. If not then demand another vote etc until you get your own way.

 

That isn't democracy. that is being a poor loser.

People are free to call for a vote. 

 

It’s a democratic right. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

10 minutes ago, billd766 said:

But only if your side wins the vote. If not then demand another vote etc until you get your own way.

Who’s “your” exactly?

 

10 minutes ago, billd766 said:

That isn't democracy. that is being a poor loser.

If your understanding about democracy is winning and losing then I’m afraid you’re wrong. 

[sawadee1947]

Hurrah, eventually someone with brain got his Coming Out 

[sawadee1947]

2 hours ago, leither69 said:

3rd, 4th?? What happened to democracy? It's done,. People are being manipulated into fear.  There's a real reason why!! the EU is running scared and other "controlling influences" are pushing for a status quo. They don't like citizens taking ownership of their future.

What a horrible nonsense. 

May tried to hide the consequences when leaving EU. 

However truth and evidence got It's way to people's head. 

The more they know the more they won't leave. 

Another poll is their democratic right 

[billd766]

48 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

People are free to call for a vote. 

 

It’s a democratic right. 

But how many times can they call for a vote until enough is enough especially if they keep losing? Who will pay for all the votes and the time?

[billd766]

14 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

What a horrible nonsense. 

May tried to hide the consequences when leaving EU. 

However truth and evidence got It's way to people's head. 

The more they know the more they won't leave. 

Another poll is their democratic right 

 

And if they win, then what?

 

The Leavers will demand another vote as it is their democratic right too.

 

So what will it be?

 

2 from 3, 3 from 4 or 5, the first one to have 2 or 3 clear votes in a row?

 

Will voting be compulsory?

 

Nobody from the Remain side who are the ones calling for a second vote have come up with any ideas on what or how to do it.

 

Who will frame the question (s)?

What will be the pass mark? 50%, 60%, 2/3, 75%?

What happens if neither side makes the cut?

Who will pay for all these votes?

 

If it is a referendum will it be mandatory or advisory?

 

That isn't democracy, that is madness.

Edited September 24, 2018 by billd766
added extra text

[Bluespunk]

13 minutes ago, billd766 said:

But how many times can they call for a vote until enough is enough especially if they keep losing? Who will pay for all the votes and the time?

There is a crunch point coming. 

 

The people calling for a vote on any deal, a vote that includes a don’t leave option, have every right to do so.

[welovesundaysatspace]

22 minutes ago, billd766 said:

But how many times can they call for a vote until enough is enough especially if they keep losing? Who will pay for all the votes and the time?

What does the constitution/laws say?

Edited September 24, 2018 by welovesundaysatspace

[IAMHERE]

Best two out of three I say. Let there be another Free Scotland vote first though.

[welovesundaysatspace]

14 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

That isn't democracy, that is madness.

I agree, but that’s how the U.K. wanted it. Allowing that madness only once when it suits you wouldn’t be Democratic. 

[Bluespunk]

3 hours ago, leither69 said:

3rd, 4th?? What happened to democracy? It's done,. People are being manipulated into fear.  There's a real reason why!! the EU is running scared and other "controlling influences" are pushing for a status quo. They don't like citizens taking ownership of their future.

“ It's done”

 

Nothing’s done yet. 

 

“They don't like citizens taking ownership of their future.”

 

What, you mean like, citizens calling for another vote on their future?

Edited September 24, 2018 by Bluespunk

[dick dasterdly]

This makes no sense to me, as it was Labour constituencies that voted to leave.

 

Is the party determined to disenfranchise those voters who support them even further (as most of their MPs supported remain)? Or are they convinced that most of those who voted leave would now vote remain??

[OJAS]

4 hours ago, DoctorG said:

So, will the nearly half that lose next time be getting a third ballot? Fourth? etc.

Indeed, it would likely only stop as far as the Remainers were concerned with the ballot which finally gave them their way. They would regard the result of that particular ballot as being legally binding, whereas the outcomes of the previous ballots had been purely advisory from their viewpoint.

 

A clear case of "heads we win, tails you lose" as far as the Remainers are concerned, I think!

[Chomper Higgot]

Remind me what Farage said about a 48:52 referrendum result?

[johnnybangkok]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

 

And if they win, then what?

 

The Leavers will demand another vote as it is their democratic right too.

 

So what will it be?

 

2 from 3, 3 from 4 or 5, the first one to have 2 or 3 clear votes in a row?

 

Will voting be compulsory?

 

Nobody from the Remain side who are the ones calling for a second vote have come up with any ideas on what or how to do it.

 

Who will frame the question (s)?

What will be the pass mark? 50%, 60%, 2/3, 75%?

What happens if neither side makes the cut?

Who will pay for all these votes?

 

If it is a referendum will it be mandatory or advisory?

 

That isn't democracy, that is madness.

You certainly have a point but I think the common (and sensible) conclusion is people did not really know what they were voting for through the disinformation and downright lies heaped on by both sides. 

2 years ago did anyone hear about a 'hard/soft' Northern island border?  The issues with trade and tariffs or the rights of EU migrants and Brits living abroad?

The electorate are far better informed now and once a final deal (or no deal) has been reached it should be that deal that then goes to a referendum with the full knowledge of 'this is what Brexit actually means'.

It's too important a decision not to do it this way and yes, if you want you can set certain criteria such as a certain percentage have to vote (say 75%) and the decision is ultimately binding. Then there would be no excuses then and ALL parties have to live with the result.   

 

Edited September 24, 2018 by johnnybangkok

[dick dasterdly]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Remind me what Farage said about a 48:52 referrendum result?

It was always obvious that if 'remain' won the day, UKIP etc. would continue pursuing 'the cause' in the future.

 

And I'm sure you're right, that with such a narrow majority (if it had been on the 'remain' side) they may well have been calling for another referendum immediately - BUT, IMO they wouldn't have been supported by the leave electorate.

 

Voters usually accept that if 'their' side didn't win - it was a case of 'fair enough, fight again next time round' - regardless of how close the vote.

[Basil B]

WARNING

Read carefully...

Quote

Britain's opposition Labour Party will vote this week to keep a second Brexit referendum on the table if Prime Minister Theresa May fails to pass her plan to leave the European Union through parliament

Does not mean they will call for a referendum to accept any deal... or even a remain deal which had been put about, it is all smoke and mirrors as per usual, like we will make companies give employees shares and they will privatise the railway's, Labour runs my city council, in the last 6 weeks they have failed to collect my bins twice, they could not organise a piss up in a brewery.  

[dick dasterdly]

It's hard to believe that the Labour party will commit suicide by supporting the remain cause - bearing in mind it was Labour party areas that voted leave!  Most of their MPs supported remain, leaving them in a bit of a difficult situation ????.

 

But as pointed out by Basil B above, it's all 'smoke and mirrors', as MPs look for a way to circumvent their constituents' vote - whilst pretending they're doing nothing of the sort....

[dunroaming]

8 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Since early this year I’ve been saying the Party Conferences would be very interesting for Brexit and Remain supporters alike.

 

The views of half the population are not being listened to

on Brexit, the party that starts listening to these ignored voices will win the next election.

Well I agree with that principle but I guess it depends when we get the next election.  As much as the Labour Party wants to push for a general election now, I think it is highly unlikely.  The Tories know they would be in serious do-do!