2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

No, my reasoning has not changed.

 

I’ve explained very clearly my views and I have been very clear that I do hold or express a view that Israeli Troops acted illegally.

 

Quite the contrary, I assume they acted legally and with good cause and that having done so have nothing to fear from an open and transparent inquest into the killing of this man by Israeli forces.

 

Carry on!

Yes, by posting lots of mumbo jumbo to muddy the waters it made all ok????

3 hours ago, BestB said:

Yes, by posting lots of mumbo jumbo to muddy the waters it made all ok????

 “Lots of mumbo jumbo”

 

ie sticking to the matter of the killing by the Israeli military of a civilian and not getting distracted by the debate of the rights/wrongs, history and politics ( real and imagined) of the Israel Palestine conflict.

 

 

11 hours ago, dexterm said:

>>No, that's your extreme point of view, which chooses to ignore reality. 

..The only extremists are the trigger happy IDF on the fence killing demonstrators who simply want to return home. That's what I regard as surreal.

 

>>Countries are not, on the whole, expected or required to drastically alter their demographics in order to better suit the ideological/political fantasies of wannabe activists. 
..which is of course exactly what Israel did at its very foundation. They ethnically cleansed half the population of Palestine herding them into Gaza and the West Bank so that they could drastically alter their demographics to suit the racist supremacist ideology of Zionism. They could not have a Jewish State without a Jewish majority. So simple math: get rid of non Jews.

 

Those refugees have never stopped trying to go home since 1948.

 

Israel created the problem; Israel has an obligation to solve the problem.

 

The solution would not be the all or nothing massive influx of refugees you disingenuously envisage. As part of a peace initiative allow a few elderly Palestinians and their immediate families who were born there to return with all the necessary security checks and balances.

 

The immediate effect would be an end to the weekly confrontations at the fence. It would be proof that the two peoples can live together peacefully and could lead to all sorts of models for a permanent peace.

 

 

@dexterm

 

Deflect all you like, but saying other are extreme doesn't make your own positions and views (aired many times on these topic) other than biased and extreme. And, if the IDF was indeed, "trigger happy" there would have been far more Palestinian casualties by now. Your worn "just want to return home" slogan was addressed and debunked numerous times, you don't see to care much for facts on that score.

 

Your contrived, one-sided take of related historical events is dully noted. Please refer to the above "biased and extreme views" part. Thanks for making the point. And regardless of your propaganda-like waffle, countries (including Israel) are not realistically expected to fundamentally alter their demographics in ways which would bring about their demise. Not even in order to fulfill the hateful fantasies of armchair "activists".

 

And on this score you keep ignoring facts as well - Israel didn't actually drive off all the Arabs, and it still maintains a sizeable Arab minority. Nothing in your posts ever acknowledges the part played in events by the Palestinians or by sponsor Arab countries. That is not an even remotely reasonable approach when discussing such matters, and once more, exemplifies the previous point made regarding "biased and extreme views". Your nonsense aside, Israel is not the sole party responsible - neither for creating the issue, nor for prolonging it.

 

As for your "solution" - that is not what the Palestinians are protesting for, and not what their leadership (other than isolated instances) tells them the "struggle" is about. You yourself claim "they want to go home" - yet your "solution" doesn't really seem to apply to the vast majority of protestors. That you wish to replace Palestinian views, and their leadership statements with your version doesn't make the latter relevant, real or honest.

 

And "disingenuously envisage"? Never mind that there wasn't such, but considering your following bit of creative nonsense, that's rich anyways. You have no idea what the "immediate effect" would be, or that there would be such. It would also not necessarily prove anything - other than in your deceitful kumbaya posts.

Off-topic post reported and removed. 

17 hours ago, Morch said:

 

 

@dexterm

 

Deflect all you like, but saying other are extreme doesn't make your own positions and views (aired many times on these topic) other than biased and extreme. And, if the IDF was indeed, "trigger happy" there would have been far more Palestinian casualties by now. Your worn "just want to return home" slogan was addressed and debunked numerous times, you don't see to care much for facts on that score.

 

Your contrived, one-sided take of related historical events is dully noted. Please refer to the above "biased and extreme views" part. Thanks for making the point. And regardless of your propaganda-like waffle, countries (including Israel) are not realistically expected to fundamentally alter their demographics in ways which would bring about their demise. Not even in order to fulfill the hateful fantasies of armchair "activists".

 

And on this score you keep ignoring facts as well - Israel didn't actually drive off all the Arabs, and it still maintains a sizeable Arab minority. Nothing in your posts ever acknowledges the part played in events by the Palestinians or by sponsor Arab countries. That is not an even remotely reasonable approach when discussing such matters, and once more, exemplifies the previous point made regarding "biased and extreme views". Your nonsense aside, Israel is not the sole party responsible - neither for creating the issue, nor for prolonging it.

 

As for your "solution" - that is not what the Palestinians are protesting for, and not what their leadership (other than isolated instances) tells them the "struggle" is about. You yourself claim "they want to go home" - yet your "solution" doesn't really seem to apply to the vast majority of protestors. That you wish to replace Palestinian views, and their leadership statements with your version doesn't make the latter relevant, real or honest.

 

And "disingenuously envisage"? Never mind that there wasn't such, but considering your following bit of creative nonsense, that's rich anyways. You have no idea what the "immediate effect" would be, or that there would be such. It would also not necessarily prove anything - other than in your deceitful kumbaya posts.

Kumbaya is good..it's how  I, and most of the civilized world live..and also the majority of world Jewry who vote with their feet not to live in a racist supremacist state that constantly provokes conflict with its neighbors, even though they actually have an instant right of return though they have never set eyes on the place before. I just wish Palestinians and Israelis could enjoy a similar lifestyle.

 

I have never known you to debunk a single one of my posts. 

 

My suggestion of a phased security vetted return of some elderly Palestinian refugees and their immediate families to the place they were actually born, Israel, note I described "as part of a peace intiative" whose success might lead to all sorts of models for a permanent peace.

 

It's never been done before. Maybe time Israel tried the carrot rather than the constant stick approach.

Edited September 27, 20187 yr by dexterm

7 hours ago, dexterm said:

Kumbaya is good..it's how  I, and most of the civilized world live..and also the majority of world Jewry who vote with their feet not to live in a racist supremacist state that constantly provokes conflict with its neighbors, even though they actually have an instant right of return though they have never set eyes on the place before. I just wish Palestinians and Israelis could enjoy a similar lifestyle.

 

I have never known you to debunk a single one of my posts. 

 

My suggestion of a phased security vetted return of some elderly Palestinian refugees and their immediate families to the place they were actually born, Israel, note I described "as part of a peace intiative" whose success might lead to all sorts of models for a permanent peace.

 

It's never been done before. Maybe time Israel tried the carrot rather than the constant stick approach.

 

 

More nonsense. You do not practice anything resembling this supposed kumbaya spirit in your rants. Your assertions as to the "civilized world" (which you consistently fail to define) are irrelevant - many of the countries enjoying peace at the present have a rich history of war, bloodshed and strife. And, of course, this conflict is taking place in the ME - where kumbaya isn't the norm, not even the imaginary one your go on about. Similarly your assertions as to motivations of "world Jewry" are both that standard co-opting thing you do, and widely off-topic to boot.

 

Quote

I have never known you to debunk a single one of my posts. 

 

Your persistence in ignoring facts and reality is acknowledged. All I can say is.....

 

Your "suggestion" is out of touch with most Israeli and Palestinian positions and views (never mind facts and reality). That you continuously fail to address relevant points made in response to your "suggestion" suggests that you cannot or will not. Simply regurgitating the same slogans over and over again isn't it.

 

Maybe its time that you stop seeing things in a totally one-sided way (fat chance), and consider that the Palestinian side will have to do its own part, whether you like it or not.

 

On 9/25/2018 at 7:20 PM, Morch said:

 

Israel is not a "rouge state" other than in your imagination. Perhaps several of the other posters spewing the same bile.

Unless mistaken, most of the "guns coming from the US" are actually manufactured locally.

And yet more schoolyard nonsense, there is no requirement for both sides of a conflict to have similar military capabilities.

 

but how come?

Regrading Israel being a 'rogue state', lets answer these 'very simple' questions:

1- Does Israel steal and sit on the land belong to others or not?

2- Does Israel obey and abide to international laws, agreements, rules and regs?

3- Does Israel kill Palestinians in an extrajudicial way(in the name of the religion)?

4- What makes Israel different than lets say Iran or Sudan? Iran or Sudan are also ruled by religion and no constitutions, exactly like Israel.

 

Regarding guns, again some 'simple' questions:

1- Locally manufactured with what resources? All i know, only resource Israel has is desert sand:)

2- Where that tech come from? Clearly an F16 fighter jet is an American tech and plane sent to Israel to create more problems.

3- Where the money come from to manufacture or buy these high tech and expensive weapons to fight against stones and knives?

 

 

For me Israel is a rogue state.

I appreciate to hear from you.

 

Edited September 28, 20187 yr by Galactus

On 9/26/2018 at 4:26 AM, The manic said:

Nonsense

 

you can answer the questions i have posted above if you found this simple fact as nonsense.

I wonder what your reaction will be when some wild murderer gunmen comes to your land and house and kick you out together with your family and sit on it?

Then they bulldoze your house and land and push you and your family to poverty with no future.

I really wonder. it is easy to speak from here!!!

 

@Galactus

 

Your personal view of Israel is immaterial. In any objective sense, Israel cannot be said to be called a "rogue state". That would entail most (or even many) countries shunning it, not having diplomatic and economic relations, possibly sanctions as well. All of these do not exist in reality, but may describe your (and other posters' fantasies).

 

And no, you do not get to dictate the framework of "determining" such issues by presenting loaded, simplistic "questions" - some of which are clearly ignorant or unhinged.

 

Edited September 28, 20187 yr by Morch

29 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

@Galactus

 

Your personal view of Israel is immaterial. In any objective sense, Israel cannot be said to be called a "rogue state". That would entail most (or even many) countries shunning it, not having diplomatic and economic relations, possibly sanctions as well. All of these do not exist in reality, but may describe your (and other posters' fantasies).

 

And no, you do not get to dictate the framework of "determining" such issues by presenting loaded, simplistic "questions" - some of which are clearly ignorant or unhinged.

 

 

if no answers to my questions, it means you are losing it morch.

no need for a word salad, my questions were super clear.

 

That word entails countries like Iran or Sudan which US is against so do its lapdog Israel. And all the worlds needs to obey our master USA as if a country doesnt join the sanctions mandated by USA, they will confiscate your dollars or apply same sanctions to that specific country so they crash economically.

and tell me, why no sanctions for Israel although this is promoted very well and many supporters? Just bc US doesnt want it and opposes every penalty UN or international courts wants to apply to Israel.

You guys live in a dream world.

so if Iran is a rogue state so do Israel. At least Iran doesn't steal others land with some wild murderer gunmen, they have a bit dignity

Edited September 28, 20187 yr by Galactus