Immigration Bureau announce "Permanent Residency application window" for 2018

[Peterw42]

Looking for some clarification as to qualifying, married to thai and over 50.

 

In the document: Notification of Immigration Commission Criterion and conditions of foreign nationals’ residential permit consideration(current on the immigration website)

https://www.immigration.go.th/pdf/26122546_regulation_notice_en.pdf

it says.

 

3.3 Qualification of applicant for humanitarian reasons in each circumstance:

          3.3.1 Spouse: To provide patronage or to be under patronage of a Thai national spouse

 

             1) The patronage provider works in Thailand,

                (2) One party or both parties must earn much enough to provide patronage or having annual income of at least Baht 30,000 per month in average, for at least 2 consecutive years before the date of application submission and evidence of tax return is required

OR

             2) The patronage provider is an elderly,

                 (1) Up to the date of application submission, the applicant must be at least 50 years old  and

                 (2) Be a lawful spouse and registered their marriage for at least 2 years before the date of application submission and

                 (3) The patronage provider must earn annual income of at least Baht 65,000 per month in average for at least 2 consecutive years up to the date of application submission.

 

This reads as two "separate" qualifications under the spouse patronage qualification, one as working, with thai income and tax etc and a "separate" qualification for over 50, only a 65k income required (no mention of tax etc)

 

Does this mean, married to a Thai and over 50, only a 65k (non-Thai) income is required? (its listed as separate to the working qualification)

Edited October 1, 2018 by Peterw42

[ubonjoe]

19 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

n the document: Notification of Immigration Commission Criterion and conditions of foreign nationals’ residential permit consideration(current on the immigration website)

https://www.immigration.go.th/pdf/26122546_regulation_notice_en.pdf

it says.

You can forget everything under 3.3.  They have not accepted applications under it for several years now (about 10).

They have even modified it since it was first posted. At one time it even had had a money in the bank option.

I think that order from 2003 has been replace somewhere along the way but was never made public

 

[jumbo]

Would it be recommended to hire a lawyer or can you do the application by yourself supported by your wife?

I mean most of the documents requested are familiar as they are submitted when going for Non-O extension on marriage and work permit extension....

If a lawyer is required are there any recommendations from experience?

 

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, jumbo said:

Would it be recommended to hire a lawyer or can you do the application by yourself supported by your wife?

You can apply for PR without a lawyer to help you. 

5 minutes ago, jumbo said:

I mean most of the documents requested are familiar as they are submitted when going for Non-O extension on marriage and work permit extension....

A criminal background check, medical check and 3 years of tax payment is not needed for those.

If you can qualify for PR it would be best to apply for Thai nationality if you are married to a Thai. Only 40k baht income for 3 years is required.

[Time Traveller]

22 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Looking for some clarification as to qualifying, married to thai and over 50.

 

In the document: Notification of Immigration Commission Criterion and conditions of foreign nationals’ residential permit consideration(current on the immigration website)

https://www.immigration.go.th/pdf/26122546_regulation_notice_en.pdf

it says.

 

3.3 Qualification of applicant for humanitarian reasons in each circumstance:

          3.3.1 Spouse: To provide patronage or to be under patronage of a Thai national spouse

 

             1) The patronage provider works in Thailand,

                (2) One party or both parties must earn much enough to provide patronage or having annual income of at least Baht 30,000 per month in average, for at least 2 consecutive years before the date of application submission and evidence of tax return is required

OR

             2) The patronage provider is an elderly,

                 (1) Up to the date of application submission, the applicant must be at least 50 years old  and

                 (2) Be a lawful spouse and registered their marriage for at least 2 years before the date of application submission and

                 (3) The patronage provider must earn annual income of at least Baht 65,000 per month in average for at least 2 consecutive years up to the date of application submission.

 

This reads as two "separate" qualifications under the spouse patronage qualification, one as working, with thai income and tax etc and a "separate" qualification for over 50, only a 65k income required (no mention of tax etc)

 

Does this mean, married to a Thai and over 50, only a 65k (non-Thai) income is required? (its listed as separate to the working qualification)

Generally, no matter what category you apply under,  they will not accept any applications if you are not currently working. So Work Permit, 3 years with it and extensions of stay with no breaks. And minimum income (lower minimums for married) 

[Weddings Parties Anything]

2 hours ago, jumbo said:

Would it be recommended to hire a lawyer or can you do the application by yourself supported by your wife?

I mean most of the documents requested are familiar as they are submitted when going for Non-O extension on marriage and work permit extension....

If a lawyer is required are there any recommendations from experience?

 

 

All of this is doable yourself, or if you have a good PA, they can chase up the bits of paper you don’t already have.

 

As others have said, if married and working you can skip PR and go straight for citizenship.

 

http://www.thaicitizenship.com/thai-citizenship-for-foreigners-married-to-thai-spouse/

[Knowsitlike]

After being a PR for over a year now and living in Thailand for last 14yrs I would say the benefit is piece of mind that you know you can stay and come and go in the country for the future regardless what happens with immigration regulations, your visa and work status, life etc. That might sound like a minor thing but if you have invested here financially and personally then I am sure you will appreciate the PR and of course is a route to citizenship if you want to do that later. It is not a straight forward process that is for sure, but if you are ready for it then you will know that already!

[vinegarbase]

On 9/27/2018 at 5:35 PM, ukrules said:

100 people per year per country.

 

The foreign office in the UK should institute a reciprocal agreement which matches this.

 

Yes! I agree 100%. Add the USA to that list as well for reciprocal agreements only allowing 100/year. 

[GroveHillWanderer]

35 minutes ago, Knowsitlike said:

I would say the benefit is piece of mind that you know you can stay and come and go in the country for the future regardless what happens with immigration regulations, your visa and work status, life etc. 

Totally agree - that's surely got to be the main benefit. Unfortunately, being retired I don't qualify to apply, otherwise I'd be all over it. 

[jumbo]

44 minutes ago, Knowsitlike said:

After being a PR for over a year now and living in Thailand for last 14yrs I would say the benefit is piece of mind that you know you can stay and come and go in the country for the future regardless what happens with immigration regulations, your visa and work status, life etc. That might sound like a minor thing but if you have invested here financially and personally then I am sure you will appreciate the PR and of course is a route to citizenship if you want to do that later. It is not a straight forward process that is for sure, but if you are ready for it then you will know that already!

I understood that prior to leaving the country, and for work I travel at least once per month, you need a re-entry visa.

From other threads I heard that it is possible to get this re-entry after customs on the airport?
Can anyone confirm one or both?? A trip to immigration would be a hassle every time...

 

[Peterw42]

24 minutes ago, jumbo said:

I understood that prior to leaving the country, and for work I travel at least once per month, you need a re-entry visa.

From other threads I heard that it is possible to get this re-entry after customs on the airport?
Can anyone confirm one or both?? A trip to immigration would be a hassle every time...

 

A re-entry permit applies to PR and any other extension, retire, marriage etc. Yes available at the Airport but a multi re-entry permit from immigration is also available if you travel frequently. Most people who travel get a multi re-entry permit each year when they get their extension.

[Peterw42]

2 hours ago, Time Traveller said:

Generally, no matter what category you apply under,  they will not accept any applications if you are not currently working. So Work Permit, 3 years with it and extensions of stay with no breaks. And minimum income (lower minimums for married) 

Yes, that appears to be the case but annoying when their own documents say otherwise. 

[ubonjoe]

47 minutes ago, jumbo said:

From other threads I heard that it is possible to get this re-entry after customs on the airport?

You cannot get a re-entry permit at any airport after customs when you arrive in the country.

You can get one at some airports on departure from the country. 

At Suvarnabhumi the desk is located after security in immigration zone 2. At Don Mueang it is after the departure immigration desks.

[ubonjoe]

23 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

A re-entry permit applies to PR and any other extension, retire, marriage etc. Yes available at the Airport

It is not available for those on PR. It can only be applied for at a immigration office.

 

[jumbo]

41 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You cannot get a re-entry permit at any airport after customs when you arrive in the country.

You can get one at some airports on departure from the country. 

At Suvarnabhumi the desk is located after security in immigration zone 2. At Don Mueang it is after the departure immigration desks.

Thanks for the information

So to be sure at Suvarnabhumi and Don Mueang I can get the re-entry after customs and my PR is still valid.

I also understood that multi (re)-entry are not available for PR is that correct?

[Weddings Parties Anything]

7 minutes ago, jumbo said:

Thanks for the information

So to be sure at Suvarnabhumi and Don Mueang I can get the re-entry after customs and my PR is still valid.

I also understood that multi (re)-entry are not available for PR is that correct?

No.

 

A PR holder gets their re-entry permit done at the immigration office, not at the airport. For those in BKK it is the PR desk at chaengwattana. 

 

Single or multi rentry permits are available for PR holders.

 

 

[Knowsitlike]

If you are a PR and want to travel out of country you need and do get a re-entry permit and you might as well go for multiple entry very quick, cheap and easy to do at immigration.

[jumbo]

16 hours ago, Knowsitlike said:

If you are a PR and want to travel out of country you need and do get a re-entry permit and you might as well go for multiple entry very quick, cheap and easy to do at immigration.

Thanks, obviously that is my preferred choice, I was not aware that multi-entry was possible at all

[jumbo]

Do you have to apply for PR in Bangkok at CW or can you do at local immigration as well, in my case Ayutthaya?

I would change from Non-O extension on marriage to PR

[ubonjoe]

21 minutes ago, jumbo said:

Do you have to apply for PR in Bangkok at CW or can you do at local immigration as well, in my case Ayutthaya?

I would change from Non-O extension on marriage to PR

The rules states that PR can be applied for at any office but in reality it can only be done at Chaeng Wattana immigration. If you go to your local office they will tell you it has be done there.

There is much more to it than simply changing to PR from from an extension of stay based upon marriage.

If you can qualify for permanent residency you could apply for Thai nationality due to you being married to a Thai..

[Time Traveller]

20 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Yes, that appears to be the case but annoying when their own documents say otherwise. 

The Thai immigration don't seem to understand the concept of income from anything else other than as a wage slave (eg. investments / business income). The outdated immigration regulations are stuck in colonial 19th century thinking. 

 

[jumbo]

6 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The rules states that PR can be applied for at any office but in reality it can only be done at Chaeng Wattana immigration. If you go to your local office they will tell you it has be done there.

There is much more to it than simply changing to PR from from an extension of stay based upon marriage.

If you can qualify for permanent residency you could apply for Thai nationality due to you being married to a Thai..

Thanks Joe, I understand it takes for more than just simply 'changing from', I was just giving some background

Not interested in Thai Nationality, very happy with the current one. The PR just suits me better for when retired.

I understand there is a special booth for PR? I heard it can be busy there...

[Knowsitlike]

Once you have been a non immigrant visa for more than 3years you can go to the PR desk at CW immigration and ask them about it, they will go through a few questions with you and you will get an idea the likelihood of your application being successful

[ubonjoe]

17 hours ago, jumbo said:

Thanks Joe, I understand it takes for more than just simply 'changing from', I was just giving some background

Not interested in Thai Nationality, very happy with the current one. The PR just suits me better for when retired.

I understand there is a special booth for PR? I heard it can be busy there...

You can keep your nationality from birth and have Thai nationality as well unless your home country does not allow dual nationalities.

There is a separate area for PR application. Probably not all that busy I would think.

[Arkady]

On 9/27/2018 at 5:35 PM, ukrules said:

100 people per year per country.

 

The foreign office in the UK should institute a reciprocal agreement which matches this.

 

There is no point for the British Government to waste energy on this because there have never been as many as 100 Brits applying in any one year.  Normally there are no more than 40 British applicants with Americans applying in similar number and other Western nationalities much less.

 

The quota when it was introduced in the early 50s was intended to stem Chinese immigration, since there was a terror that China was sending in a fifth column of communist agents after the communist takeover.  PR was in those days the only type of visa you could get for more than 3 months and it was originally given to any migrant who could show he had an occupation and could support himself in the Kingdom (work permits came much later - in the early 70s). At the same time the government increased the fees fourfold to filter out Chinese applicants further. 

 

The quota still only really applies to Chinese who include Taiwanese and Hong Kong applicants in the eyes of the Thai government. They are the only nationality that regularly hit the quota.  Indians have very occasionally hit and to the best of my knowledge are the only other nationality that has ever hit it.  There is presumably some elbowing amongst the Chinese to ensure they are selected for the 100 quota.  Now doubt Immigration has a transparent and fair system to deal with this.

 

It would be better to lobby the British government to ask for reciprocal agreements over things like land ownership, which was the case until the early 70s when the treaty with the UK that covered this was scrapped.  Giving Thai companies and individuals that they will have to dispose of property in the UK by a certain date would likely start some lobbying activity by affected persons to persuade the Thai government to agree to a reciprocal agreement that could include things like owning businesses, as does the US treaty.  

[jumbo]

How 'fluent in Thai' do you need to be...

I mean I can definitely talk about my business and work, attend meetings and the general dinner conversations but if they ask me anything I don't deal on a daily basis with like; name me the parts of a car engine, than I am lost...

I also heard through the grapevine you need to know the text of the national anthem, but since I don't work karaoke yet singing would likely get me rejected..... number or provinces and info like that.

 Is there no list with the standard questions that PR's have from their days???

[ubonjoe]

24 minutes ago, jumbo said:

How 'fluent in Thai' do you need to be.

For PR you don't have to speak much more than basic Thai.

24 minutes ago, jumbo said:

I also heard through the grapevine you need to know the text of the national anthem, but since I don't work karaoke yet singing would likely get me rejected..... number or provinces and info like that.

That nad being relatively fluent in Thai is a requirement for applying for Thai nationality not PR.

24 minutes ago, jumbo said:

Is there no list with the standard questions that PR's have from their days???

The best place to get current info about the requirements is to contact the PR section at Chaeng Wattana immigration.

[Arkady]

On 10/1/2018 at 1:02 PM, ubonjoe said:

You can forget everything under 3.3.  They have not accepted applications under it for several years now (about 10).

They have even modified it since it was first posted. At one time it even had had a money in the bank option.

I think that order from 2003 has been replace somewhere along the way but was never made public

 

Someone, who was not working in Thailand, reported that he was annoyed about being turned away when he tried to put in an application under 3.3, so he went back with a lawyer who argued with them that they had no legal basis for refusing the application.  With ill grace they accepted the application before stuffing it permanently in a bottom drawer. They will definitely not process applications from people who are not legitimately working in Thailand.

[Arkady]

6 hours ago, jumbo said:

How 'fluent in Thai' do you need to be...

I mean I can definitely talk about my business and work, attend meetings and the general dinner conversations but if they ask me anything I don't deal on a daily basis with like; name me the parts of a car engine, than I am lost...

I also heard through the grapevine you need to know the text of the national anthem, but since I don't work karaoke yet singing would likely get me rejected..... number or provinces and info like that.

 Is there no list with the standard questions that PR's have from their days???

 

When I did PR they had not yet introduced the requirement to be able to speak Thai but I have done the citizenship interview which probably requires a similar level of Thai for those not applying for citizenship  on the basis of a Thai wife.  Friends who have done the PR interview told me that they were asked things like, "What do you feel is your contribution to Thai society?"  and "Do you have Thai friends?"  When he said he had Thai friends, they asked for the full names of 5 of them. I think it would be worth preparing the  answer about the contribution to society because that is an important part of your application. Otherwise it's worth preparing to introduce yourself, how many years in TH, what jobs have you done, your family.  Prepare to answer questions about your work. 

 

They don't expect total fluency at all.  An intermediate knowledge of Thai should be sufficient.  I don't believe they will ask you about the lyrics of the National Anthem.  I think someone is confusing the requirement to sing the National and Royal Anthems in the citizenship interview for those applying without a Thai spouse. 

[jumbo]

On 10/19/2018 at 2:41 PM, Arkady said:

 

When I did PR they had not yet introduced the requirement to be able to speak Thai but I have done the citizenship interview which probably requires a similar level of Thai for those not applying for citizenship  on the basis of a Thai wife.  Friends who have done the PR interview told me that they were asked things like, "What do you feel is your contribution to Thai society?"  and "Do you have Thai friends?"  When he said he had Thai friends, they asked for the full names of 5 of them. I think it would be worth preparing the  answer about the contribution to society because that is an important part of your application. Otherwise it's worth preparing to introduce yourself, how many years in TH, what jobs have you done, your family.  Prepare to answer questions about your work. 

 

They don't expect total fluency at all.  An intermediate knowledge of Thai should be sufficient.  I don't believe they will ask you about the lyrics of the National Anthem.  I think someone is confusing the requirement to sing the National and Royal Anthems in the citizenship interview for those applying without a Thai spouse. 

Thanks both ubonjoe and Arkady for the answers...