A naked and shameful power grab [Editorial]

[HAKAPALITA]

Just now, robblok said:

Of course I and others blame YL for this, all she needed to do before stepping down was making some provisions. She was just in a rush to step away from the mess and never thought of the farmers. Legal minds agreed Sjaak. You might not but they did.

 

Maybe the nation is backpedaling maybe like me they were appealed by the scale of corruption and nepotism and hoped for something better. Do remember all coups were short in the recent history. Like me they did not expect this. 

 

Even I now prefer a corrupt PTP government over a corrupt junta one. 

Youth is wasted on the Young Millennial.

[garyk]

Only problem I see for me as a expat is that the political powers will be in place for decades now. With strong ties to China I see a real problem for expats. It may take a few years but  I can see a purge of the expat community coming. 

Property seized, restrictions on visa's getting so difficult it will be next to impossible to obtain. All the while courting China tourist's, and business investments from China.  

Interesting to see what develops in the next 5-10 years or so. 

Edited October 6, 2018 by garyk

[HAKAPALITA]

Just now, garyk said:

Only problem I see for me as a expat is that the political powers will be in place for decades now. With strong ties to China I see a real problem for expats. It may take a few years but  I can see a purge of the expat community coming. 

Property seized, restrictions on visa's getting so difficult it will be next to impossible to obtain. All the while courting China tourist's, and business investments from China.  

Interesting to see what develops in the next 5-10 years or so. 

Bit late to worry, the second gen Chin Immigrants wrote the rules here, not ethnic Thais.Just same whats slowly happening in Europe but the LUVIES wont wake up.

[Joe Mcseismic]

The people get the government they deserve.......doubly so for Thailand.

Nothing will change until ordinary Thais realise that corruption is wrong and not just another business model.

[ballpoint]

23 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Let's deal with the regular coups that seem to appear whenever a sniff of grassroots movement or policies were detected. Uninterrupted democracy that allows the people to have confidence and empowerment to elect leaders to strengthen the institutions, corruption agencies, laws and transparency progressively will reduce corruption. 

The military were left licking their wounds following "Black May" 1992, and there was even talk that such an event would never be able to occur in Thailand again.  What happened over the next 10 years?  Repeated governments brought down - without any military interference, by their own corruption and incompetence.  There have been only two real spontaneous people protests since the restoration of "democracy" in 1988 - once in 1992, against the attempt to make Suchinda PM (which was hijacked by Chamlong, but began as a spontaneous event), and again in 2013, against the amnesty bill (which was later hijacked by Suthep, but began as a spontaneous protest including people from both sides of the colour divide).  The other protests, in 2009 and 2010, were organised events, rather than spontaneously taking place at the time of a coup / perceived injustice.  Why was it that people came into the streets immediately following the Suchinda affair, but not immediately following the 2006 and 2014 coups?  Because they were demoralised and disheartened by the civilian governments since 1992.  What is the point of putting your life on the line to try and remove a military junta when at best it's just going to be replaced by a corrupt civilian fat cat who really couldn't give a damn about you and your life?

[sjaak327]

5 hours ago, robblok said:

Of course I and others blame YL for this, all she needed to do before stepping down was making some provisions. She was just in a rush to step away from the mess and never thought of the farmers. Legal minds agreed Sjaak. You might not but they did.

 

Maybe the nation is backpedaling maybe like me they were appealed by the scale of corruption and nepotism and hoped for something better. Do remember all coups were short in the recent history. Like me they did not expect this. 

 

Even I now prefer a corrupt PTP government over a corrupt junta one. 

Hope for something better, completely ignoring history, oh my god, I know I cannot say this, but that is just utterly stupid. How on earth can one trust people that break the law and stage a coup ? History has shown time and time again what will happen. And then to think that we are talking about the Thai military. They are the masters of corruption. The Nation is apparently unaware of the history. That or (more likely) they were complicit. Part of the very establishment that are running the show. 

 

The point is, there is NEVER I repeat NEVER a good reason to stage a coup in a democracy. And regardless what you claim, Thailand was a democracy. Stealing the country from it's own citizens should Always be opposed, not supported. The people that supported the coup should be ashamed of their stupidity. 

[sjaak327]

5 hours ago, robblok said:

Bullshit on your side not on mine (by way the nothing personal here just debate). The protest were there before the coup. She was untouchable because she investigated her own crimes. The rice program would never have been checked as well as with her out of power. You just don't like it that your hero did anything in her power to stop that investigation and only when she was gone did it go into full swing AND showed the 30billion baht in fake trades. Her own investigations during her reign had shown no corruption. So while in power she was able to influence investigations. That is proof.

At no point in time was Yingluck untoucheable. Stop the lies. She was accountable to the people, parliament and the senate. Do not suddenly try to appear that the rice schandal was suddenly only known after the coup. And further to that, the figures produced by the junta are not to be believed. In fact their actions only made the problem worse….

 

Pray tell, why do you think Thailand's reserves are now depleted. The rice scheme will look like absolute child's play once the full extend of Four years of Junta will be properly know. As other then under Yingluck, NOW there are no checks and balances, and NOW the people running the show are litterally untoucheable and above the law. And not a single member of the electorate put them there in the first place !

Edited October 6, 2018 by sjaak327

[Ctkong]

On 10/3/2018 at 6:28 AM, YetAnother said:

pity; the new thailand

 we are just long term guests of the host country.  If the pickings are not to our taste, we can always pick up the pieces and move to another more accommodating country. We should not have our finger in their politics. ASEAN countries are all similar in flavour. 

[sjaak327]

4 hours ago, ballpoint said:

The military were left licking their wounds following "Black May" 1992, and there was even talk that such an event would never be able to occur in Thailand again.  What happened over the next 10 years?  Repeated governments brought down - without any military interference, by their own corruption and incompetence.  There have been only two real spontaneous people protests since the restoration of "democracy" in 1988 - once in 1992, against the attempt to make Suchinda PM (which was hijacked by Chamlong, but began as a spontaneous event), and again in 2013, against the amnesty bill (which was later hijacked by Suthep, but began as a spontaneous protest including people from both sides of the colour divide).  The other protests, in 2009 and 2010, were organised events, rather than spontaneously taking place at the time of a coup / perceived injustice.  Why was it that people came into the streets immediately following the Suchinda affair, but not immediately following the 2006 and 2014 coups?  Because they were demoralised and disheartened by the civilian governments since 1992.  What is the point of putting your life on the line to try and remove a military junta when at best it's just going to be replaced by a corrupt civilian fat cat who really couldn't give a damn about you and your life?

Hmm, interesting. Instead of being dishearted, one would think a little bit of self reflection would be in order. I personally don't believe they were all dishearted, judged by the fact that the person that was removed in the 2006 coup, managed to win two more consequitive general elections. The last one in a landslide. Maybe just maybe the reason why people don't protest is because they are not allowed to do so. 

 

 

[Odysseus123]

1 minute ago, sjaak327 said:

Hmm, interesting. Instead of being dishearted, one would think a little bit of self reflection would be in order. I personally don't believe they were all dishearted, judged by the fact that the person that was removed in the 2006 coup, managed to win two more consequitive general elections. The last one in a landslide. Maybe just maybe the reason why people don't protest is because they are not allowed to do so. 

 

 

Aye!

[robblok]

4 hours ago, ballpoint said:

The military were left licking their wounds following "Black May" 1992, and there was even talk that such an event would never be able to occur in Thailand again.  What happened over the next 10 years?  Repeated governments brought down - without any military interference, by their own corruption and incompetence.  There have been only two real spontaneous people protests since the restoration of "democracy" in 1988 - once in 1992, against the attempt to make Suchinda PM (which was hijacked by Chamlong, but began as a spontaneous event), and again in 2013, against the amnesty bill (which was later hijacked by Suthep, but began as a spontaneous protest including people from both sides of the colour divide).  The other protests, in 2009 and 2010, were organised events, rather than spontaneously taking place at the time of a coup / perceived injustice.  Why was it that people came into the streets immediately following the Suchinda affair, but not immediately following the 2006 and 2014 coups?  Because they were demoralised and disheartened by the civilian governments since 1992.  What is the point of putting your life on the line to try and remove a military junta when at best it's just going to be replaced by a corrupt civilian fat cat who really couldn't give a damn about you and your life?

What your saying there is actually so similar to my thinking, people don't protest against coups anymore because the alternative is just not too much better. They are not willing to risk themselves for a minor improvement I would not either.

[robblok]

21 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

At no point in time was Yingluck untoucheable. Stop the lies. She was accountable to the people, parliament and the senate. Do not suddenly try to appear that the rice schandal was suddenly only known after the coup. And further to that, the figures produced by the junta are not to be believed. In fact their actions only made the problem worse….

 

Pray tell, why do you think Thailand's reserves are now depleted. The rice scheme will look like absolute child's play once the full extend of Four years of Junta will be properly know. As other then under Yingluck, NOW there are no checks and balances, and NOW the people running the show are litterally untoucheable and above the law. And not a single member of the electorate put them there in the first place !

You and I seem to have a different idea about untouchable.

 

First off crimes should be punished by a court not by removal through voting.. because the basic of a democracy is that the judiciary will prosecute crimes its not up to the people to do so with voting. I don't know why you keep saying its the peoples duty while in a democracy its the judiciary that should solve problems of corruption.

 

YL was accountable but because she had her people in places of power was she untouchable. Why else could she investigate her own government crimes and say there was nothing there only later when she was disposed off could they really procecute her as she was no longer able to hide stuff. You seem to forget how much power someone in government has and you seem to forget how she intimidated the civil servants that said there was corruption. In my country its normal to put people who are suspected of corrupton on a temporary leave.. that was not done with YL she was in power during investigations.. that is NOT a good thing.

 

The rice scandal was known before the coup.. (it was in all the papers about the fake g2g deals).. but YL denied it did her own investigation denied there was anything. That is clear proof of meddling in investigations and a good reason to remove her and let an investigation play out. 

 

All of this could have bene avoided had she been honest.. I mean.. come on 30 billion. that is the price of the subs in fake deals.. that is not something you don't find in an investigation.. unless you don't want to find it. All she had to do is really investigate things. 

 

If you have any info about the junta depleting stuff do post it as I have no idea. I know that YL did the rice program off book self financing.. I know of none such off books stuff by the junta. But it seems you do.. so please tell me. (id be happy to complain about the junta if you find stuff like that)

 

You have seen me go after Prawit, i would go after any junta corruption just as hard. 

 

You are right that the current mob is a lot more untouchable then YL. No argument there.

[robblok]

38 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

Hope for something better, completely ignoring history, oh my god, I know I cannot say this, but that is just utterly stupid. How on earth can one trust people that break the law and stage a coup ? History has shown time and time again what will happen. And then to think that we are talking about the Thai military. They are the masters of corruption. The Nation is apparently unaware of the history. That or (more likely) they were complicit. Part of the very establishment that are running the show. 

 

The point is, there is NEVER I repeat NEVER a good reason to stage a coup in a democracy. And regardless what you claim, Thailand was a democracy. Stealing the country from it's own citizens should Always be opposed, not supported. The people that supported the coup should be ashamed of their stupidity. 

How about people who support a corrupt democratic government.. should they be ashamed too ?

 

And Thailand was never a mature democracy.. its a democracy Thai style.

Edited October 6, 2018 by robblok

[Eric Loh]

5 hours ago, ballpoint said:

The military were left licking their wounds following "Black May" 1992, and there was even talk that such an event would never be able to occur in Thailand again.  What happened over the next 10 years?  Repeated governments brought down - without any military interference, by their own corruption and incompetence.  There have been only two real spontaneous people protests since the restoration of "democracy" in 1988 - once in 1992, against the attempt to make Suchinda PM (which was hijacked by Chamlong, but began as a spontaneous event), and again in 2013, against the amnesty bill (which was later hijacked by Suthep, but began as a spontaneous protest including people from both sides of the colour divide).  The other protests, in 2009 and 2010, were organised events, rather than spontaneously taking place at the time of a coup / perceived injustice.  Why was it that people came into the streets immediately following the Suchinda affair, but not immediately following the 2006 and 2014 coups?  Because they were demoralised and disheartened by the civilian governments since 1992.  What is the point of putting your life on the line to try and remove a military junta when at best it's just going to be replaced by a corrupt civilian fat cat who really couldn't give a damn about you and your life?

The Black May event was a spontaneous populous demonstration against continued corruption and military dominance. The intervention by the King resolved the volatile situation. Unfortunately the 2006 & 2014 did not have the same intervention. The people knew that significance and could only stage limited protests in their province. The people are also not stupid to take their chance against a ruthless military who have demonstrated repeated times that they willing to kill to follow orders. They manufactured the excuses to stage the coups with the help of their political allies. The military is not the arbitrator of the good or bad governments; it is the people’s responsibility. After all they are worst off in corruption and competence in running a government. 

[zzaa09]

8 hours ago, ballpoint said:

The military were left licking their wounds following "Black May" 1992, and there was even talk that such an event would never be able to occur in Thailand again.  What happened over the next 10 years?  Repeated governments brought down - without any military interference, by their own corruption and incompetence.  There have been only two real spontaneous people protests since the restoration of "democracy" in 1988 - once in 1992, against the attempt to make Suchinda PM (which was hijacked by Chamlong, but began as a spontaneous event), and again in 2013, against the amnesty bill (which was later hijacked by Suthep, but began as a spontaneous protest including people from both sides of the colour divide).  The other protests, in 2009 and 2010, were organised events, rather than spontaneously taking place at the time of a coup / perceived injustice.  Why was it that people came into the streets immediately following the Suchinda affair, but not immediately following the 2006 and 2014 coups?  Because they were demoralised and disheartened by the civilian governments since 1992.  What is the point of putting your life on the line to try and remove a military junta when at best it's just going to be replaced by a corrupt civilian fat cat who really couldn't give a damn about you and your life?

Actually, the societal scars go much further back than your summation dating above. 

The political circus that is Thai has repeated itself during the cyclical theatre of struggle since the 1940s, where the watershed events of 1957, 1961, 1963, 1970, 1973, and 1976 are quite revealing regarding the sustained and rising modern oligarchical influence - which of course, has continued to play out from your aforementioned 1988, 1992, 2006, 2010, 2014 Lakorn. 

 

The players and settings might differ here and there, but the play remains the same. 

Who are they serving and what are they protecting? 

Connecting dots.

 

Yet, the dumbfounded and blind analysis from Farang punditry continue on as if there might be knowledgeable and historic record to rectify. 

[ozmeldo]

On 10/3/2018 at 4:27 AM, Denim said:

If the Nation were a decent unbiased newspaper it would have been more critical of the military before and immediately after the coup.

 

Too late now for bold articles denouncing the junta from the Nation. They missed the bus as usual and all their bluster now is totally worthless.

 

The democracy they now think is so valuable wouldn't buy a packet of crisps in the coming elections.

+3 yeah the post hasn't been much better but perhaps as it had started to post some reality based articles, guilt and shame gripped the Nation and it grew a ball (1).

[zzaa09]

4 minutes ago, ozmeldo said:

+3 yeah the post hasn't been much better but perhaps as it had started to post some reality based articles, guilt and shame gripped the Nation and it grew a ball (1).

Prototype wolf in sheep's clothing. 

 

Most won't recognize for what it is. 

Consider the source.

[nausea]

I feel a dynasty coming on, with Chinese backing. Mind you, the Thais are pretty slippery. Won't be the first time Thais have faced a power grab and wriggled out of the net. What they need is another Rama IV, 27 years as a Buddhist monk, comes out of retirement and kicks ass. Ha!

[zzaa09]

4 hours ago, nausea said:

I feel a dynasty coming on, with Chinese backing. Mind you, the Thais are pretty slippery. Won't be the first time Thais have faced a power grab and wriggled out of the net. What they need is another Rama IV, 27 years as a Buddhist monk, comes out of retirement and kicks ass. Ha!

Different times and social order, of course - but Siam was much better of with the likes of HM King Mongkut and followed up even more so with the long reign of King Chulalongkorn. A bit convoluted and romantic, of course.......but a roundabout point to be had. 

[sjaak327]

How about people who support a corrupt democratic government.. should they be ashamed too ?
 
And Thailand was never a mature democracy.. its a democracy Thai style.

People can simple remove such a government. Who can remove Prayuth and Co? And further to that, they are vastly more corrupt than PT could ever dream off.

The cure is worse than the disease, amazing some people are blind deaf and dumb. Despite relevant history, despite ample warnings. Some people apparently wish to be fooled....

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[sjaak327]

You and I seem to have a different idea about untouchable.
 
First off crimes should be punished by a court not by removal through voting.. because the basic of a democracy is that the judiciary will prosecute crimes its not up to the people to do so with voting. I don't know why you keep saying its the peoples duty while in a democracy its the judiciary that should solve problems of corruption.
 
YL was accountable but because she had her people in places of power was she untouchable. Why else could she investigate her own government crimes and say there was nothing there only later when she was disposed off could they really procecute her as she was no longer able to hide stuff. You seem to forget how much power someone in government has and you seem to forget how she intimidated the civil servants that said there was corruption. In my country its normal to put people who are suspected of corrupton on a temporary leave.. that was not done with YL she was in power during investigations.. that is NOT a good thing.
 
The rice scandal was known before the coup.. (it was in all the papers about the fake g2g deals).. but YL denied it did her own investigation denied there was anything. That is clear proof of meddling in investigations and a good reason to remove her and let an investigation play out. 
 
All of this could have bene avoided had she been honest.. I mean.. come on 30 billion. that is the price of the subs in fake deals.. that is not something you don't find in an investigation.. unless you don't want to find it. All she had to do is really investigate things. 
 
If you have any info about the junta depleting stuff do post it as I have no idea. I know that YL did the rice program off book self financing.. I know of none such off books stuff by the junta. But it seems you do.. so please tell me. (id be happy to complain about the junta if you find stuff like that)
 
You have seen me go after Prawit, i would go after any junta corruption just as hard. 
 
You are right that the current mob is a lot more untouchable then YL. No argument there.

The fact that she was impeached already makes your remarks an absolute fairy tale.

The facts do not support your claim. There really is no denying it. How different the situation is now. People without a mandate, being able to waste tax payer money like there is no tomorrow, without any checks and balances, no opposition, no accountability and no freedom of press or assembly. And thanks to a vast amnesty, the people doing it are literally above the law.


Anyone denying the situation got progressive worse is utterly lost...

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