Staff ran off with my 2 months condo deposit and more, lied everyone

[Peterw42]

Do people realise that CONDO OFFICES ARE NOT REAL ESTATE AGENTS. Condo offices/juristic person look after the condo block, manage common property, collect fees, run meeting etc. Their purpose is not to be a rental/sales agent on behalf of co-owners. Its a giant red flag if the condo office is selling and renting properties, its not their job, its illegal under the Condo act etc. 

If you have any sort of real estate dealings with a condo office, you are not dealing with the condo office, you are dealing with someone doing rentals/sales on condo office time.

Would people sign a rental agreement, pay rent, deposits to the girl in 7/11 ? Then blame 7/11 when it all goes horribly wrong.

[AlQaholic]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

Do people realise that CONDO OFFICES ARE NOT REAL ESTATE AGENTS. Condo offices/juristic person look after the condo block, manage common property, collect fees, run meeting etc. Their purpose is not to be a rental/sales agent on behalf of co-owners. Its a giant red flag if the condo office is selling and renting properties, its not their job, its illegal under the Condo act etc. 

If you have any sort of real estate dealings with a condo office, you are not dealing with the condo office, you are dealing with someone doing rentals/sales on condo office time.

Would people sign a rental agreement, pay rent, deposits to the girl in 7/11 ? Then blame 7/11 when it all goes horribly wrong.

Most Condominium offices act as agents, this is not illegal as long as it is agreed upon at an AGM, such as in our Condos' case. In our Condo, to ensure that buyer and owner gets the proper legal framework for transferring property in a 100% legal way. Who is best positioned to look after the interests of both buyer and seller? The Condominium management, not the sleazy property agents. There may be some bad apple staffer, such as in this case, but overall, the purpose of the condo management is to look after the interests of all co-owners, past, and future.

[Peterw42]

21 minutes ago, AlQaholic said:

Most Condominium offices act as agents, this is not illegal as long as it is agreed upon at an AGM, such as in our Condos' case. In our Condo, to ensure that buyer and owner gets the proper legal framework for transferring property in a 100% legal way. Who is best positioned to look after the interests of both buyer and seller? The Condominium management, not the sleazy property agents. There may be some bad apple staffer, such as in this case, but overall, the purpose of the condo management is to look after the interests of all co-owners, past, and future.

You may as well have a vote at the AGM and turn the condo office into a noodle shop, have the staff do the cooking, wait the tables etc. Its no different. And no more legal.

The Condo act specifically states that the condo office/juristic person cannot run a business or use non-business premises as business premises. You cannot over-ride the condominium Act by voting at an AGM.

Its a conflict of interest for the office to have anything to do with property transfer as they have a specific legal responsibilities providing the documents for the sale on behalf of the seller, condo fees are paid and in foreign quota etc. 

How do you justify to the residents that the condo office is spending a proportion of their time running around showing condos, doing contracts, going to the land office etc, at the expense of doing what they are supposed to be doing , managing the block.

Does the turnover, commission, profit etc from the real estate business get accounted for in the financial reports for the condo block, how does the office prioritize its activities between attending to a broken elevator or showing prospective tenants through a condo ?

You may think its legal and for the benefit of the co-owners, its illegal and at best is for the benefit of a minority of co-owners (landlords) at the expense of the general residents.

Its not "most" blocks that act as real estate agents, fortunately its in the minority, and in my experience the blocks that allow the office to run a real estate business are the blocks that have major problems, staff are usually to busy chasing commission to look after the block, everyone wants to be on the committee to get a cut of the rentals and sales (a vested interest to convince everyone its legal).

At the end of the day its lots of, unaccounted for, money floating around, commissions, kick backs, funds that dont belong to the office etc. it opens the door to corruption, stealing or at the very least. dereliction of condo management duties.

[Media1]

On 10/6/2018 at 6:18 PM, ukrules said:

How about calling in the tourist police and tell them you've been ripped off, that might get some movement.

 

Whoever you're renting from is the person who owes you the money, it doesn't matter who stole it, you paid it to the person they designated so it's on them.

 

The management in a building I stayed at some years back stole everything, this happens more than you might think.

 

The idiots who owned the apartment I was living in for a couple of years at that point told me that I might need to pay some rent again unless I could prove every payment.

 

I had every receipt going back to the initial deposit so I wasn't bothered by their problem, but they were at least thinking of recouping their loss from me.

 

This was a legitimate company (even had tax stamps on the yearly leases) and they owned many millions of dollars worth of apartments in Bangkok.

 

They owned nothing only managed them

[AlQaholic]

22 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

The Condo act specifically states that the condo office/juristic person cannot run a business or use non-business premises as business premises. You cannot over-ride the condominium Act by voting at an AGM.

1

Can you please refer to the section in the condominium act that says that the Condominium juristic person cannot engage in the transfer of property or the rent of property in the same condominium that it is responsible for managing? I just had a look in the act, and I can't seem to find it? And to think that any of the proceeds from such activity would be pocketed by any staff is just ridiculous. All proceeds go to an account that belongs to the co-owners, of course, and is duly presented at the AGM.

Edited October 8, 2018 by AlQaholic

[Media1]

On 10/6/2018 at 8:12 PM, bwpage3 said:

Call Big Joke!

Yes happy to sweep away unlicensed hotel people to jail. 

[Media1]

On 10/7/2018 at 10:00 AM, AhFarangJa said:

I may be wrong, and will humbly cede to a more knowledgeable person than I, but I think to do this would be illegal, and maybe lose the complainant some leverage.

Not ilegal. Your owed 2 months

[Peterw42]

2 minutes ago, AlQaholic said:

Can you please refer to the section in the condominium act that says that the Condominium juristic person cannot engage in the transfer of property or the rent of property in the same condominium that it is responsible for managing? I just had a look in the act, and I can't seem to find it? 

They are not a business or a business entity (as defined in the civil and commercial code), they are the legal entity for the management of the condo block. The office manages the "common property, not the individually owned condos in the condo block or the affairs of the individual owners. All defined in the Condo act. The office/juristic person has no jurisdiction over buying, selling, renting of private property in the condo block they manage. the same as they have no jurisdiction over the privately owned cars parked in the block.

Nobody other than the land office does transfer of property. Maybe you are talking about hiring the condo office as an agent to represent you at the land office. They are not a business, so can no more represent you at the land office as they can represent you at the DLT.

 

 

[smutcakes]

4 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

They are not a business or a business entity (as defined in the civil and commercial code), they are the legal entity for the management of the condo block. The office manages the "common property, not the individually owned condos in the condo block or the affairs of the individual owners. All defined in the Condo act. The office/juristic person has no jurisdiction over buying, selling, renting of private property in the condo block they manage. the same as they have no jurisdiction over the privately owned cars parked in the block.

Nobody other than the land office does transfer of property. Maybe you are talking about hiring the condo office as an agent to represent you at the land office. They are not a business, so can no more represent you at the land office as they can represent you at the DLT.

 

 

100% agree Peter. The management are engaged to manage the common areas of the property, not to manage tenancy and sales arrangements for some Co-owners. I would be well pissed off if i was living their and the management were spending their time running around after some Co-owners who were renting their units out. That is the Co-owners job to manage, not using the staff who are paid by All Co-owners. Its like having the staff come into your unit to clean your room when they should be cleaning the common area.

[KittenKong]

21 hours ago, AlQaholic said:

Most Condominium offices act as agents, this is not illegal as long as it is agreed upon at an AGM, such as in our Condos' case. In our Condo, to ensure that buyer and owner gets the proper legal framework for transferring property in a 100% legal way. Who is best positioned to look after the interests of both buyer and seller? The Condominium management, not the sleazy property agents. There may be some bad apple staffer, such as in this case, but overall, the purpose of the condo management is to look after the interests of all co-owners, past, and future.

I  dont think that "most" do this. Maybe some do, but technically they should not, as mentioned. The condo juristic person is not supposed to operate any sort of business: its job is to collect common fees, pay common bills and take care of building maintenance. And that's where it ends.

 

Nor does the juristic person office have any business getting involved in the legal process of buying/selling units. This is the Land Office's job. In point of fact there is nothing that the juristic person office can do anyway, apart from issue debt-free certificates which, of course, is their job.

 

If your building has decided at an AGM that it wants to do extra things then I wonder how the income is being shown in the accounts? I know that in my own building we certainly cant show that sort of thing for what it is. Even things like ATM machine space rental and pool house  space rental cant legally be shown for what they are, so they are disguised.

 

And if some day one or more of your co-owners objects to this practice, the JPM and committee may find themselves in a poor position.

[KittenKong]

20 hours ago, AlQaholic said:

And to think that any of the proceeds from such activity would be pocketed by any staff is just ridiculous. All proceeds go to an account that belongs to the co-owners, of course, and is duly presented at the AGM.

I think that in many buildings such money would indeed disappear into the pockets of staff. It certainly would in mine, along with everything else they steal.

[AlQaholic]

On 10/8/2018 at 11:25 AM, Peterw42 said:

They are not a business or a business entity (as defined in the civil and commercial code), they are the legal entity for the management of the condo block. The office manages the "common property, not the individually owned condos in the condo block or the affairs of the individual owners. All defined in the Condo act. The office/juristic person has no jurisdiction over buying, selling, renting of private property in the condo block they manage. the same as they have no jurisdiction over the privately owned cars parked in the block.

Nobody other than the land office does transfer of property. Maybe you are talking about hiring the condo office as an agent to represent you at the land office. They are not a business, so can no more represent you at the land office as they can represent you at the DLT.

 

 

There is nothing in the condo act, preventing the management to act as agents for renting and selling/buying units. There are certain duties that must be fulfilled according to the act. I am a committee member myself in my condo, There are countless examples of very thankful co-owners in our condominium. Thankful to the management for handling the complicated business of ownership transfer and dealing with the land office in a professional and honest way. Added to this, of course, the extra income for all co-owners from the commissions. We do not force co-owners to use us as agents, they are free to use property agents, the one who sells first gets the commission. What we saw before, was a lot of unscrupulous agents taking advantage of buyers and sellers limited knowledge, including outright fraud. To protect the interests of existing co-owners and future co-owners, we saw it as our duty to ensure all sales and rentals were done correctly according to laws. So in a way, acting as an agent is a direct consequence of acting in the best interest of all co-owners. This is at least the situation in our condo. 

Edited October 9, 2018 by AlQaholic

[Peterw42]

30 minutes ago, AlQaholic said:

There is nothing in the condo act, preventing the management to act as agents for renting and selling/buying units. There are certain duties that must be fulfilled according to the act. I am a committee member myself in my condo, There are countless examples of very thankful co-owners in our condominium. Thankful to the management for handling the complicated business of ownership transfer and dealing with the land office in a professional and honest way. Added to this, of course, the extra income for all co-owners from the commissions. We do not force co-owners to use us as agents, they are free to use property agents, the one who sells first gets the commission. What we saw before, was a lot of unscrupulous agents taking advantage of buyers and sellers limited knowledge, including outright fraud. To protect the interests of existing co-owners and future co-owners, we saw it as our duty to ensure all sales and rentals were done correctly according to laws. So in a way, acting as an agent is a direct consequence of acting in the best interest of all co-owners. This is at least the situation in our condo. 

Is every last baht of this commission then banked into the condo account ?????? For the benefit of all the co-owners. Are you paying tax on the commission, declaring it to the tax office, thats what businesses do !!!!

[AlQaholic]

32 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Is every last baht of this commission then banked into the condo account ?????? For the benefit of all the co-owners. Are you paying tax on the commission, declaring it to the tax office, thats what businesses do !!!!

All fees go into one of the condo accounts. All our accounts are audited annually by a certified accountant. They are presented to the land office every year and to the AGM every year.

[murraynz]

On 10/7/2018 at 4:29 PM, sirocco said:

Hello,

Yes, there are the joys of renting, but also those of the purchase.
Ask the 50 future / ex buyers of TROPICAL OCEAN at HUA HIN what they think.
They have been robbed by crooked promoters who for some have disappeared, and no one is responsible.
Soaring savings of a lifetime.

yes, dont risk your money-DONT  buy until condo is fully completed....

there is very little recourse for corrupt landlords or property developers, in thailand...

the laws dont protect the consumer, at all....

[RickG16]

Where did this happen?

[blackhorse]

Hello,
Yes, there are the joys of renting, but also those of the purchase.
Ask the 50 future / ex buyers of TROPICAL OCEAN at HUA HIN what they think.
They have been robbed by crooked promoters who for some have disappeared, and no one is responsible.
Soaring savings of a lifetime.

Take a look around. There are hundreds of thousands of complete condo projects.

Buy from reputable developers with runs on the board instead of super cheap condos with unknown developers

These days the best allow you to pay your deposit monthly so you can go to the site and physically see them working before making a payment.

It's stupid to give a few examples of corrupt developers and paint the whole market with the same brush.!

[samsensam]

3 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

Take a look around. There are hundreds of thousands of complete condo projects.

Buy from reputable developers with runs on the board instead of super cheap condos with unknown developers

These days the best allow you to pay your deposit monthly so you can go to the site and physically see them working before making a payment.

It's stupid to give a few examples of corrupt developers and paint the whole market with the same brush.!

 

agree, look around. my apartment block is managed by the family who built it. they are hands on, customer focused and expect their staff to be the same. any tenant, thai or foreign, who breaks the rules, usually noise, is given one warning then asked to leave. if it is a big breach they leave immediately;  recently the thai gf of a foreigner had a complete meltdown that ended up in the corridor and therefore on cctv and they were asked to leave the next day.

 

if building work is going on nearby the management negotiate reasonable working/noise hours to lessen the disturbance.

 

good apartment blocks are out there.

[blackhorse]

 
agree, look around. my apartment block is managed by the family who built it. they are hands on, customer focused and expect their staff to be the same. any tenant, thai or foreign, who breaks the rules, usually noise, is given one warning then asked to leave. if it is a big breach they leave immediately;  recently the thai gf of a foreigner had a complete meltdown that ended up in the corridor and therefore on cctv and they were asked to leave the next day.
 
if building work is going on nearby the management negotiate reasonable working/noise hours to lessen the disturbance.
 
good apartment blocks are out there.

Same here. We just had a complete make over of the lobby and a Great job. They also just painted all of the common areas.. Every floor. New deck chairs around the pool and always adding new gym equipment.

The renters would like you to believe that most condos are about to fall over due to neglect.
Can only be jealousy I presume. Living in a 4k fan room has gotta suck

[sirocco]

post 47, good evening,

I looked around and saw a lot of condos abandoned.
As for TROPICAL OCEAN, it is real estate agents and developers who have established storefront, so well known, who have benefited from the naiveté of buyers.
There was breach of trust, scam.
From my skills, I am in charge of one of the files of an expatriate.

[marcusarelus]

On 10/6/2018 at 6:27 PM, blackhorse said:

The joys of renting. These incidents are happening more and more.

How do you know they are happening more and more?

[blackhorse]

How do you know they are happening more and more?

Observation. You should try it

[marcusarelus]

6 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

22 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

How do you know they are happening more and more?

Observation. You should try it

In 20 years I've never seen one happen.  I think you are making it up.  How would you be in a position to gain such information? 

Edited October 11, 2018 by marcusarelus

[blackhorse]

In 20 years I've never seen one happen.  I think you are making it up.  How would you be in a position to gain such information? 

Search TV it's free but takes some effort. You can stop when your in the hundreds

[KittenKong]

On 10/10/2018 at 4:34 PM, samsensam said:

agree, look around. my apartment block is managed by the family who built it. they are hands on, customer focused and expect their staff to be the same. any tenant, thai or foreign, who breaks the rules, usually noise, is given one warning then asked to leave. if it is a big breach they leave immediately;  recently the thai gf of a foreigner had a complete meltdown that ended up in the corridor and therefore on cctv and they were asked to leave the next day.

There's a big difference between an apartment block and a condominium.

[marcusarelus]

8 hours ago, blackhorse said:

8 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

In 20 years I've never seen one happen.  I think you are making it up.  How would you be in a position to gain such information? 

Search TV it's free but takes some effort. You can stop when your in the hundreds

Oh a TV expert.  I beg your pardon I didn't know. 

[Henryford]

You would never get your deposit back anyway, what's the problem.

[JimmyJ]

On 10/7/2018 at 1:55 AM, Media1 said:

Or simply remain in the condo for 2 additional months rent free

 

I see this solution offered frequently in these threads.

 

Couldn't the owner or management company get a locksmith to open the door when the renter is not there and put the renter's possessions on the street (or in a storeroom)?