BREAKING NEWS British Embassy Bangkok to Stop Certification of Income Letters

[New beginnings]

 

47 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Seems like an easy way out, how much is it?

500k baht.

 

[Neeranam]

4 minutes ago, New beginnings said:

500k baht.

 

I wouldn't worry, this is Thailand and there is always a way around every obstacle they put in our way.

[Peterw42]

42 minutes ago, New beginnings said:

There is also the option of the Thai Elite Visa which, if you leave and return to Thailand just before expiry, will last for 6 years, multiple entries and various other benefits.

I dont know why its not taken up by more people, I have a mate who has spent probably 1m baht over the last 5 years, going to neighbouring counties for visas, airfares, hotels etc. 

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

2 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

guess a lot could be done by looking at the wording in the letter

 

this is how my embassy certifies/verifies my address; (which I just give them on a piece of paper)

 

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN

 

Mr Name Name, holder of passport nnnnnn, has informed the embassy that he resides on:

address

address

address

 

and then a suitable heap of stamps and signatures - I am happy - Thai authorities are happy

 

 

 

 

embassy takes no responsibility

this is the exact wording they used late August

 

This  is to confirm that citizen of XXXland, Mr Name Name, born dd.mm.yyyy, holder of 

passport number nnnnnnnn, issued on dd.mm.yyyy, has informed the embassy that he is

registered at the following address

 

address

address

address

...

 

[Pilotman]

20 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

A bit of common sense is needed here. Immigration want to see 800k seasoned in a Thai bank account for three months. I would say that they want to see 65k a month in a Thai bank account, too. What would be the point of showing Thai immigration this money in a foreign bank account? They want to see that you are spending this in Thailand. That's the whole point. What you have outside of Thailand doesn't concern them.

Probably correct but illogical thinking.  You have to spend money here to live, so the very fact of living here adds to the Thai economy. 

[Tanoshi]

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Just speculation. The facts as they stand is that retired Brits without letters will be out of luck doing any kind of income based applications and will have the 800K method as their ONLY option to stay.

I don't believe that to be the case.

 

Just as you can prove the 800,000 lump sum in a Thai bank, I believe as long as you can prove deposits totalling 800,000 in a Thai bank over a period of 12 months that will be acceptable. It wouldn't necessarily have to be 65,000 a month.

Updated passbook and letter from the bank can confirm those deposits.

 

The combination method could work in exactly the same way.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Tanoshi

[oldlakey]

17 hours ago, aonangkrabi said:

The embassy of the Netherlands used to give the income letter without checking. This has changed and they actually verify your income. If the Netherlands' embassy can check this, why can't the UK embassy do likewise?

They decide 

[Peterw42]

2 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

guess a lot could be done by looking at the wording in the letter

 

this is how my embassy certifies/verifies my address; (which I just give them on a piece of paper)

 

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN

 

Mr Name Name, holder of passport nnnnnn, has informed the embassy that he resides on:

address

address

address

 

and then a suitable heap of stamps and signatures - I am happy - Thai authorities are happy

 

 

 

 

embassy takes no responsibility

Even that is different to how the other embassies do it, none of the others make statements like "has informed the embassy" etc. As with the income letters, the citizen makes the statement and the embassy just stamps it .

I have an Australian friend who put down the palace in Hua Hin as his address on a residency statutory declaration. He could have put the moon, as the Oz embassy just stamps whatever you write.

[JackThompson]

 

10 hours ago, gentlemanjackdarby said:

As an American, I thought that we were one of only a handful of countries, among them Libya, North Korea, Eritrea and the Philippines, that taxes world-wide income of citizens and resident aliens.

The difference is, the USA taxes world-wide earnings even if you don't set foot in the country for decades and don't bring the money into the USA.  The Philippines stopped doing that, so their citizens in the USA and elsewhere would quit renouncing PI citizenship.  The USA is left standing with regimes like N-Korea and China in their policy.

 

Only money brought into the country of residence (in this case, Thailand) is subject to tax, and only if brought into Thailand in the same year it is earned, and only if one stays in Thailand 180 days+/yr.  Money earned in prior years is considered "savings" and not taxed. 

Edited October 10, 2018 by JackThompson

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, mstevens said:

Remember many years ago there was that terrorist who was arrested in Ayuthaya (??) who it transpired had been extending his visa by sending his passport out of the country without actually leaving the country himself.  That was the end of that means of extending visas.

 

Imagine if news breaks that a foreigner involved in some nefarious activity has been living in Thailand for a long time and extending his visa using agents.  There will be a huge backlash.  That's all it takes and that will be the end of using agents.

The money from the guy sending out his passport was not feeding a huge chain of people, from a local office up through the ranks.  Similar for lower-level agents busted for "tip" money. 

Agent money, in much larger amounts, feeds a network including those with enough rank not only to keep it alive, but to allow public-ads of "no money extensions" - which would have led to a crackdown years ago if only the local-office staff were on the take.

 

So far, the only "crackdowns" have been local offices not providing services (90-day reports) for those who get their extensions from other offices - because that denies them their cut of the action.

 

I would not be surprised if a couple agents were sacrificed / thrown under the bus, and the public-ads offering "no money" / "sponsored" extensions taken down - but I would be surprised if the entire billion-baht operation, upon which many lifestyles well beyond a "public servant wage" are undoubtedly supported, is shut down entirely.  It's not impossible - but would be huge.

[MrPatrickThai]

2 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The difference is, the USA taxes world-wide earnings even if you don't set foot in the country for decades and don't bring the money into the USA.  The Philippines stopped doing that, so their citizens in the USA and elsewhere would quit renouncing PI citizenship.  The USA is left standing with regimes like N-Korea and China in their policy.

I pay tax in the US and have never been there! I work for a US company. Don't want to go off topic here but lets just say they have a nerve!

[pagallim]

As an aside, instances such as the recent case in Pattaya when an elderly UK expat and his wife stole cash and a mattress from his neighbour's room (also a Brit) has implications.  Presumably the guy had a long term visa of sorts (if not an overstayer), but reasoned the crime through being penniless, which given the financial criteria, assuming that he had a valid visa, calls into question the diligence of what supporting criteria his extension received and by whom.   

[ubonjoe]

A inflammatory baiting post has been removed.

[David Walden]

17 hours ago, fimo said:

Yes but that letter will only concern british citizens, UK is starting to forget their expats.

Currency is another issue and not specific to UK, I agree.

The same issue applies to everyone world wide.  The signature and stamp in the Stat dec is only confirmation that the person witnessing the document did actually see you sign that document.  The information provided in the document is irrelevant to them, not interested.  It maybe from a dozen different sources.  It may be that you have shares in 50 different companies that provides the dividend.  The Embassy would need employ a team of accountants to go through your books and thousands of others as well to establish you are telling the truth.  That has been the way it is for hundreds of years with a stat dec. It is still the same and has never been any different.  Thai Immigration has no idea what a Statutory declaration is?  But for sure it is not poof of any income what so ever and never was...but TIT.

[Tanoshi]

8 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Even that is different to how the other embassies do it, none of the others make statements like "has informed the embassy" etc. As with the income letters, the citizen makes the statement and the embassy just stamps it .

I have an Australian friend who put down the palace in Hua Hin as his address on a residency statutory declaration. He could have put the moon, as the Oz embassy just stamps whatever you write.

The British Embassy letters are along the lines of:

 

Mr X has also stated that he receives monthly pensions totalling £xxxxx and has shown us letters from 1), 2) and 3) stating that he receives pensions totalling £xxxxx per annum.

[MrPatrickThai]

All immigration officers are in for a windfall. I'd estimate 10,000 baht to make a letter not be necessary.

Everyone is happy, well fairly.

[oldlakey]

15 hours ago, Rally123 said:

Have said it a couple of times in this thread but everyone needs a 'plan B' in case 'plan A' goes tits up. As in this case. No 'plan B' then you deserve what is coming. Sorry

I have been foot loose and fancy free for 30 odd years

20 years ago I purchased a landed property next door for when I wanted  a respite from travelling 

When the second Brit wife kicked me into touch I found a Malaysian wife

5 year visa as compensation no financial requirements one hour at the local immigration office every 5 years all done

Now thankfully I am above all this what's going to happen next as I can put up with the hassle of just being the occasional tourist these days

It's swings and roundabouts that's life as far as I am concerned

I actually feel for those who might be affected in a bad way by what now seems to be happening you have my sympathy, if only because of how the Thai authorities have conducted themselves in the past

[Jingthing]

27 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

I don't believe that to be the case.

 

Just as you can prove the 800,000 lump sum in a Thai bank, I believe as long as you can prove deposits totalling 800,000 in a Thai bank over a period of 12 months that will be acceptable. It wouldn't necessarily have to be 65,000 a month.

Updated passbook and letter from the bank can confirm those deposits.

 

The combination method could work in exactly the same way.

Could work. Doesn't now. Embassy letters are required for income based applications.

[Peterw42]

1 minute ago, Tanoshi said:

The British Embassy letters are along the lines of:

 

Mr X has also stated that he receives monthly pensions totalling £xxxxx and has shown us letters from 1), 2) and 3) stating that he receives pensions totalling £xxxxx per annum.

Yes thats right, its a letter written by the embassy (they sign it, not you) as opposed to a citizen declaration (citizen signs) from other embassies.

[vogie]

1 hour ago, New beginnings said:

 

 

Yes, but don’t forget total is not full 500k when you take into account yearly renewal and re-entry fees and any possible changes in immigration requirements during the next 6 years. Basically a way to stay for 6 years hassle free.

But on the other hand, if you are that way inclined and wish to pay an agent 20,000 baht a year for your extention, you would get 25 years for the price of an elite visa.

[Peterw42]

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

But on the other hand, if you are that way inclined and wish to pay an agent 20,000 baht a year for your extention, you would get 25 years for the price of an elite visa.

And the immigration officer could pay off his house, win win, lol

[kinyara]

Would be interested to know how many income verification letters the British Embassy in Bangkok were issuing annually and therefore how many retirees are affected by this. I don't think I've ever seen a figure for how many Brits are on "retirement" visas here. 

 

Whilst it's an issue for those affected, the numbers involved might reveal whether the change assumes huge importance for the Thai authorities. I don't see why they should change their policy if this is a unilateral decision by the British Embassy, although I'm not clear if that's the case as other Embassies were mentioned at the start of the thread.

 

[Tanoshi]

4 minutes ago, kinyara said:

Would be interested to know how many income verification letters the British Embassy in Bangkok were issuing annually and therefore how many retirees are affected by this. I don't think I've ever seen a figure for how many Brits are on "retirement" visas here. 

The Income letters are not only for those on retirement extensions.

A fair number of married expats also use the Income letter for marriage extensions.

[phutoie2]

37 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

I don't believe that to be the case.

 

Just as you can prove the 800,000 lump sum in a Thai bank, I believe as long as you can prove deposits totalling 800,000 in a Thai bank over a period of 12 months that will be acceptable. It wouldn't necessarily have to be 65,000 a month.

Updated passbook and letter from the bank can confirm those deposits.

 

The combination method could work in exactly the same way.

Let's hope so as for several years I have used the combo method. My service pension falls short of the 65K and not having the lump sums. Spent years back on wife, family and children. Up sh*t creek without a paddle springs to mind. Ex pats are already discussing here about lending or borrowing money to make up short falls. 

Like Brexit, we are Brits and we will survive. 

[ubonjoe]

A post containing profanity and quotes of it have been removed.

[smotherb]

I have been through immigration not wanting to accept my income statement twice. Each time they reluctantly accepted it and told me to show proof of my B65k/monthly into Thailand. The first time it was just a warning and they gave me no specific instructions. The second time, which was two years later; they made me write and sign a letter stating I would deposit B65k/month in a Thai bank to show them in order to get my retirement extension.  Last year, after my wife diligently posted monthly to a Thai bank the previous year, the Immigration Office did not even ask about it and  accepted the income statement without question. 

 

One argument I had that is still pertinent, is the fact that the total money a foreigner is required to have by the Thais is not what you are required to spend in Thailand. As it stands, it appears those on income are going to have to show B65k/mo entering Thailand. Are those on lump sum going to have to show at least B65k is spent monthly of the B800k in the bank?  

Edited October 10, 2018 by smotherb

[Peterw42]

2 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

It's not just one Embassy and it's the Thai authorities who are being the c**t.

 

It would be very easy for Immigration to accept confirmation from a Thai bank regarding the relevant incomes of 40 or 65K, just in the same way they accept the lump sums deposit in your account.

Other than wild speculation, it does appear to be only the British Embassy, people have called their respective consulates to be advised no change, and people have called immigration to be advised no change.

British income letters are different to other embassies and that appears to be the issue, and why they are pulling the plug. Other than the British embassy deflecting the blame to immigration, there have been no other sources, statements etc.

 

It may come down to immigration accepting bank statements for brits in the absence of their consulate  providing letters. I cant imagine how the banks could do this, accounting for variable and multiple income sources, technically you could take money out of the atm and deposit it back as income, bounce money between 2-3 accounts and call it income etc..

[kinyara]

3 minutes ago, smotherb said:

I have been through immigration not wanting to accept my income statement twice. Each time they reluctantly accepted it and told me to show proof of my B65k/monthly into Thailand. The first time it was just a warning and they gave me no specific instructions. The second time, which was two years later; they made me write and sign a letter stating I would deposit B65k/month in a Thai bank to show them in order to get my retirement extension.  Last year, after my wife diligently posted monthly to a Thai bank the previous year, the Immigration Office did not even ask about it and  accepted the income statement without question. 

 

One argument I had that is still pertinent, is the fact that the total money a foreigner is required to have by the Thais is not what you are required to spend in Thailand. As it stands, it appears those on income are going to have to show B65k/mo entering Thailand. Are those on lump sum going to have to show at least B65k is spent monthly of the B800k in the bank?  

No, and if you bring your 65k in a month for a couple of years you could save enough to meet the 800k requirement and your problem is solved.

 

[New beginnings]

20 minutes ago, vogie said:

But on the other hand, if you are that way inclined and wish to pay an agent 20,000 baht a year for your extention, you would get 25 years for the price of an elite visa.

Hi noted and fully accept and agree with your comments. Whilst the Elite Visa fee does appear high it just gives peace of mind for 6 years. Personally, maybe I worry too much, but wouldn’t feel comfortable living here illegally. I would constantly be dreading the knock on the door if immigration come down really hard on these somewhat dodgy extensions of stay.

[malagateddy]

Maybe everyone should " take a step back "..let the dust settle, and hopefully a solution can be found.


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