Yet more confusion over the removal of Income Certification Letter for British expats

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, evadgib said:

How about their right to family life?

That could have been argued, and probably has been, regarding  minimum amount of income required in order to bring your Thai family to the UK.

[ThaidDown]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

nor do they want to. Perhaps as commonwealth members the Brits could use the Australian or Canadian embassy, it's worth ask8ng.

Do not know about Canada but the Australian Embassy in Bangkok has this on their website....

 

Quote

We understand that the British Embassy in Bangkok will no longer be providing British nationals with letters confirming their income from 1 January 2019.

The Australian Embassy does not issue income letters. Our notarial services include the witnessing of Australian statutory declarations for Australian citizens, or for use in Australia. This process remains unchanged.

Note, bold emphasis  by me.

 

[evadgib]

17 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Nothing in that wording to support thinking showing imports would be OK. The word holding shows that. That's what people already do that is accepted in every office and no need to show income or import income or embassy letter. Just show the required bank balance seasoned plus a bank letter.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

....but English isn't your mother tongue JT ????

Edited October 18, 2018 by evadgib

[zydeco]

2 hours ago, Expattaff1308 said:

A reply from the Embassy...

 

I am sorry to learn that you are unhappy with the announcement that we intend to withdraw from providing a Pension letter in Thailand from 1 January 2019.  I appreciate the difficulties that can accompany such a change in services.

 

Our British Embassy in Bangkok currently issues a pension letter as a supporting document for British nationals applying for a Thai retirement or marriage visa application.  The Thai authorities have confirmed that they want the British Embassy to verify the income of British nationals which they are unable to do.  They/We would refer such requests to the issuing authority.   Therefore, the current letter does not fulfil the Thai authorities requirements so we need to stop issuing it so it is not misinterpreted as verification.

 

We are unable to provide a Statutory Declaration  to fulfil these requirements as this is not a service which we provide. The services which are provided by the British Embassy can be found here; https://www.gov.uk/guidance/notarial-and-documentary-services-guide-for-thailand#services-we-provide-in-thailand

 

When withdrawing a service we do look at what other options are available to the customer to assist them in meeting the requirements of the receiving authority.  There is an alternative for customers to demonstrate that they meet the financial requirement for their retirement or marriage visa by holding a Thai bank account showing the minimum funds needed.   

 

To assist customers, our Embassy in Bangkok has published details on their website of the change in service and what option is available to customers and what those requirements are.  Further details can be found at:  

at https://www.gov.uk/government/news/british-embassy-bangkok-to-stop-certification-of-income-letters

 

Regards

 

Sarah Peth  Deputy Consul & Head of Operations

Translation: piss off

[Jingthing]

18 minutes ago, evadgib said:

....but English isn't your mother tongue JT ????

I won't dignify that.

 

Definition of HOLDING.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/holding

property (such as land or securities) owned —usually used in plural

 

(In this case the property would be a THAI BANK ACCOUNT.)

 

Nothing about that implies monthly income flowing into the account. HOLDING clearly points to the current BANK ACCOUNT method. That account holds the money at the required balance, that must be held for the required seasoning period.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Jingthing

[Thaidream]

31 minutes ago, zydeco said:

Therefore, the current letter does not fulfil the Thai authorities requirements so we need to stop issuing it so it is not misinterpreted as verification.

It wouldn't be interpreted as verification if they changed the wording indicating it is not a verification and if Thai Imm requests further info- the applicant will provide it. Then it is up to Thai Imm if they want to continue to accept it.  

 

As far as changing to a Stat Dec- other BE in the region still issue Stat Decs so the BE could do this if they really wanted to help their citizens.  BE Hanoi Vietnam has a template on their  Website.

 

 

 

[dick dasterdly]

29 minutes ago, zydeco said:

Translation: piss off

Quite! ????

 

The BE is making it very clear that they have no interest in Brit. citizens living in Thailand - and have no problem 'throwing them under the bus'....

[SheungWan]

1 minute ago, Thaidream said:

It wouldn't be interpreted as verification if they changed the wording indicating it is not a verification and if Thai Imm requests further info- the applicant will provide it. Then it is up to Thai Imm if they wonant to continue to accept it.  

 

As far as changing to a Stat Dec- other BE in the region still issue Stat Decs so the BE could do this if they really wanted to help their citizens.  BE Hanoi Vietnam has a template on their  Website.

The non-verification verification pathway is a dead duck, but nevertheless will look interesting on the protest banners outside the BE. "We Demand Non-Verification Verification!".

[SheungWan]

5 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Quite! ????

The BE is making it very clear that they have no interest in Brit. citizens living in Thailand - and have no problem 'throwing them under the bus'....

Throwing stones outside the BE always a good sign of smart thinking.

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, SheungWan said:

The non-verification verification pathway is a dead duck, but nevertheless will look interesting on the protest banners outside the BE. "We Demand Non-Verification Verification!".

Stat dec will do nicely thanks

[SheungWan]

48 minutes ago, zydeco said:

Translation: piss off

And that is the limit of some people's understanding of most issues.

[jayboy]

Quite! [emoji16]
 
The BE is making it very clear that they have no interest in Brit. citizens living in Thailand - and have no problem 'throwing them under the bus'....

That’s unfair.They probably think there is no option but to withdraw the service.The alternative procedure suggested is as I understand it not practical since the Thai authorities still require a letter from the Embassy.If I’m wrong about this could someone put me right.

The problem with the Embassy - my understanding above is correct- is that they won’t make the effort to work together and come up with a solution that meets all parties’ requirements.

It’s a classic British jobsworth position- ie being reactive and not imaginative.The smug complacency of the letter reeks of the blinkered bureaucrat.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[SheungWan]

Just now, soalbundy said:

Stat dec will do nicely thanks

Not on the menu any more. But do keep asking.

[zydeco]

3 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Not on the menu any more. But do keep asking.

Yessum, Bwana.

[scotsman]

3 hours ago, Expattaff1308 said:

A reply from the Embassy...

 

I am sorry to learn that you are unhappy with the announcement that we intend to withdraw from providing a Pension letter in Thailand from 1 January 2019.  I appreciate the difficulties that can accompany such a change in services.

 

Our British Embassy in Bangkok currently issues a pension letter as a supporting document for British nationals applying for a Thai retirement or marriage visa application.  The Thai authorities have confirmed that they want the British Embassy to verify the income of British nationals which they are unable to do.  They/We would refer such requests to the issuing authority.   Therefore, the current letter does not fulfil the Thai authorities requirements so we need to stop issuing it so it is not misinterpreted as verification.

 

We are unable to provide a Statutory Declaration  to fulfil these requirements as this is not a service which we provide. The services which are provided by the British Embassy can be found here; https://www.gov.uk/guidance/notarial-and-documentary-services-guide-for-thailand#services-we-provide-in-thailand

 

When withdrawing a service we do look at what other options are available to the customer to assist them in meeting the requirements of the receiving authority.  There is an alternative for customers to demonstrate that they meet the financial requirement for their retirement or marriage visa by holding a Thai bank account showing the minimum funds needed.   

 

To assist customers, our Embassy in Bangkok has published details on their website of the change in service and what option is available to customers and what those requirements are.  Further details can be found at:  

at https://www.gov.uk/government/news/british-embassy-bangkok-to-stop-certification-of-income-letters

 

Regards

 

Sarah Peth  Deputy Consul & Head of Operations

Have a read of the web link on the UK website it still tells you that importing your funds of 65k or 40k with a letter from the bank will be excepted from IO. So no change from the BE on this and we all know this is not excepted by IO at this time. There will have to be a change from BE or the Thai immigration law so all you can do is wait.

regards

Scotsman 

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, SheungWan said:

Not on the menu any more. But do keep asking.

IO only wants us to go through the motions. They want to see a parrot on the perch and pretend it's not dead. The BE wont sell us anymore stuffed parrots.

[SheungWan]

1 minute ago, jayboy said:

That’s unfair.They probably think there is no option but to withdraw the service.The alternative procedure suggested is as I understand it not practical since the Thai authorities still require a letter from the Embassy.If I’m wrong about this could someone put me right.
The problem with the Embassy - my understanding above is correct- is that they won’t make the effort to work together and come up with a solution that meets all parties’ requirements.
It’s a classic British jobsworth position- ie being reactive and not imaginative.The smug complacency of the letter reeks of the blinkered bureaucrat.
Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Viable solution? One might be to offer grandfathering of those currently on income declaration for 1 year on basis of previous BE letter submitted.

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, scotsman said:

Have a read of the web link on the UK website it still tells you that importing your funds of 65k or 40k with a letter from the bank will be excepted from IO. So no change from the BE on this and we all know this is not excepted by IO at this time. There will have to be a change from BE or the Thai immigration law so all you can do is wait.

regards

Scotsman

Absolutely correct- the email from the BE and their website do not match.  The BE could save face by saying they will continue to issue the letter with a disclaimer for  an indefinite period and further study the issue  . 

[SheungWan]

Just now, Thaidream said:

Absolutely correct- the email from the BE and their website do not match.  The BE could save face by saying they will continue to issue the letter with a disclaimer for  an indefinite period and further study the issue  . 

That's a face saver?

[SheungWan]

1 minute ago, Thaidream said:

Absolutely correct- the email from the BE and their website do not match. 

In the case of the Thai Embassies where the website is not always accurate, it is the info given out at the Embassy which prevails over the website inaccuracy. Playing 'gotcha' over such things probably not so smart.

[Thaidream]

Just now, SheungWan said:

That's a face saver?

Call it what you want- it would help  people and allow a study of the situation and real input from British Expats as well as giving Thai Imm to react if they need to. It could also allow alternate sources of this letter to be developed.  

[soalbundy]

5 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

That's a face saver?

........to further study the issue.   It was a bad idea and we've changed our minds.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Not so great for Thais, though.  Granted, our expat-spending helped, funding businesses/jobs, and our foreign-currency injections prevented an even more extreme fall of their national currency.

 

Not so great for me either. I was working with Motorola on the DTAC mobile system and my contract ( and most of the other expat) was not renewed. That happened just about the time when I told my wife that I wanted a divorce to marry my Thai girlfriend.

 

I ended up In Sri Lanka.

[SheungWan]

8 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

IO only wants us to go through the motions. They want to see a parrot on the perch and pretend it's not dead. The BE wont sell us anymore stuffed parrots.

Unfortunately going through the motions on financial matters is on the way out. The trend now is for further tightening, not less, and that is why forum contributors hoping for a return to the status quo ante are likely on a losing wicket.

[Expattaff1308]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

That could have been argued, and probably has been, regarding  minimum amount of income required in order to bring your Thai family to the UK.

Minimum income 400/800k deposited over a year which equates to 40/65k a month would be ok if Immigration accepted this form of evidence either through a Bank Letter or as told by the BE Bank Statements. Sadly to date that is not an option.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Expattaff1308

[Thaidream]

3 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

n the case of the Thai Embassies where the website is not always accurate, it is the info given out at the Embassy which prevails over the website inaccuracy. Playing 'gotcha' over such things probably not so smart.

I don't play games or 'gotcha'- my comment was a reminder that it is obvious the BE does not understand how Thai Imm really works and that is why I have suggested that the BE delay this decision until all stakeholders have been able to have their say; be listened to; and see what other alternatives are available,  A Statutory Dec could be developed by the BE in Bangkok if they so desired and would meet the basic needs of the population.  It is done at the BE in Hanoi right now- and they have templates available.

I try and present positive examples of what can be done instead of sarcastic commentary .

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Unfortunately going through the motions on financial matters is on the way out. The trend now is for further tightening, not less, and that is why forum contributors hoping for a return to the status quo ante are likely on a losing wicket.

Nothing in Thailand is the way it first seems

[Jingthing]

33 minutes ago, scotsman said:

Have a read of the web link on the UK website it still tells you that importing your funds of 65k or 40k with a letter from the bank will be excepted from IO. So no change from the BE on this and we all know this is not excepted by IO at this time. There will have to be a change from BE or the Thai immigration law so all you can do is wait.

regards

Scotsman 

People shouldn't be expected to plan their lives around wishing and hoping that Thai immigration policies/law is going to change just because the BE is promoting that (seemingly as a CYA tactic it seems to me). There is already a surefire way to transition from income method that will definitely work and requires no wishing or hoping. That is the money in a Thai bank method, kept at the minimum balance for your extension type, seasoned according to the rules.

Brits would be wise to forget about planning for monthly imports at this time. Instead plan to have that bank account method ready. Then nothing to worry about. 

Later, IF there is such a change, then that would be the time to plan for a policy that actually exists. 

[Jingthing]

I like the idea of asking other commonwealth embassies to issue the income documents. But that's just a beginning. If one of them is willing, then of course that's another thing Thai immigration would need to be clear about whether they would accept it or not. Isn't there already precedent for that? Don't many nationals not have embassies here and perhaps have agreements with an allied nation to assist them? 

 

 

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Quite! ????

 

The BE is making it very clear that they have no interest in Brit. citizens living in Thailand - and have no problem 'throwing them under the bus'....

 

54 minutes ago, jayboy said:

 

That’s unfair.They probably think there is no option but to withdraw the service.The alternative procedure suggested is as I understand it not practical since the Thai authorities still require a letter from the Embassy.If I’m wrong about this could someone put me right.

The problem with the Embassy - my understanding above is correct- is that they won’t make the effort to work together and come up with a solution that meets all parties’ requirements.

It’s a classic British jobsworth position- ie being reactive and not imaginative.The smug complacency of the letter reeks of the blinkered bureaucrat.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

My comment is not at all "unfair" - as the BE is the only embassy to adopt this attitude - to the detriment of their citizens living in Thailand using the income route.