UK Embassy Letters - The Way Forward.

[Jip99]

On 10/23/2018 at 10:03 AM, OJAS said:

In that case I wonder whether for the Embassy to require supporting evidence solely in the form of either our latest tax return to HMRC or P60 (if we aren’t required to provide tax returns because e.g. we don’t own property in the UK) should not have been the way forward – particularly if they were then to conduct spot checks with HMRC on, say, at least 1 in 10 applications to ensure that the evidence provided by an applicant matched the info in HMRC’s records. I would have thought it unlikely that such a checking system (based on NI numbers) would, in practice, prove unduly onerous for the Embassy to perform electronically over secure HMG networks, despite whatever claims they might initially make to the contrary.

 

I agree 100% with you.... I don't think that the BE made any  effort to find a compromise.

[CharlieH]

Troll comment removed.

[wgdanson]

5 hours ago, Moonlover said:

and it probably it takes no more than a hour or two to do so!

You, the applicant, had done all the maths and shown it on their 'spreadsheet'. They merely have to copy those figures, your name, address and passport number onto a pre formatted letter. 15 minutes MAX.

[OJAS]

19 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

There will be NO resignations, simply for there being no reason to be any.
I suggest you Contact Consular services at the BE Bangkok if you are a UK citizen and the statement posted on the www.gov./uk website is not clear in your way forward. 

Maybe no outright resignations, but, hopefully, a number of "transfers to inactive posts", to quote the Thai vernacular, will, indeed, result from this debacle.

 

As regards your suggestion to contact Consular services at the Embassy, it has clearly escaped your notice that many of us have already done precisely this! ????

[OJAS]

19 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Do you work at the British Embassy? Or another Embassy ? Are you speaking as an employee or are you simply an interested citizen with an opinion?  Everyone is entitled to an opinion but if you work at the Embassy- your opinion and information carries some authority.  

If, indeed, he does work at the Embassy, this is all the more reason to take his opinion and information with an extremely large pinch of salt, I think, given that (initially, at any rate) they led us up the garden path as regards the acceptability of 65k/40k deposited in a Thai bank account each month in lieu of their letter!

Edited October 24, 2018 by OJAS

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, Expattaff1308 said:

My Latest reply from our helpful Embassy..

Thank you for your email. We cannot issue a statutory declaration because the Thai authorities have confirmed that they require the income of those applying for a Thai retirement and marriage visas to be verified by their Embassy.  Providing a self-declaration does not meet this requirement.  If the Embassy administers these declarations, it can still be perceived that we are confirming income, which unfortunately we cannot do.  Whilst the British Embassy can administer statutory declarations, in this case it would be inappropriate for us to do so.  The affirmation of freedom to marry is different to a statutory declaration and we are obliged to administer it as there is no single document that shows marital status in the UK.  Regarding income for an extension of stay, there is an alternative already in place which is to move the required funds to a Thai bank account where the Thai authorities can verify it

 

Absolutely pathetic, particularly the final sentence, I think. The British Embassy are clearly labouring under the misapprehension that 800k grows on trees as far as we expat retirees are concerned. At least one individual has reported that he will be faced with having to stump up this colossal amount in his Thai bank account by as soon as March 2019.

[HappyAndRich]

3 hours ago, steven2018 said:

My understanding is that 3000+ Brits could be affected by this, hopefully it gets worked out to a good resolution.

Affected? How can that be? Are they that many that falsify income letters, or do you walk around believing that there is not going to be possible for them to prove pension or income in any way?

[ubonjoe]

A off topic inflammatory post has been removed.

[HappyAndRich]

48 minutes ago, OJAS said:

Absolutely pathetic, particularly the final sentence, I think. The British Embassy are clearly labouring under the misapprehension that 800k grows on trees as far as we expat retirees are concerned. At least one individual has reported that he will be faced with having to stump up this colossal amount in his Thai bank account by as soon as March 2019.

What is pathetic? If you stay in a country you will clearly need money in the country you stay. therefore it can not be considered pathetic that a countries immigration what to see sufficient funds for issue a visa. You will not need to transfer 800k into an account if you don´t want. There will still be a way to show monthly income, but it has to come into a thai bank account so it can be truly verified. That is not pathetic, but it´s needed. There has been too many expats living in this country on falsified document regarding proven income, so that must just come to an end. There has been no indications that Immigration will change the possibility to prove monthly income, just because one office has ne officer that told one expat this. The only change that is a fact so far, is that things need to can be shown in real light and can not be hidden behind a false paper. Everything else we will just have to wait and see what solution that is going to be available.

[Expattaff1308]

18 minutes ago, HappyAndRich said:

You will not need to transfer 800k into an account if you don´t want. There will still be a way to show monthly income, 

Care to share how this is possible & acceptable to Immigration?

With the withdrawal of the Embassy Letter this is what most of us have been waiting for.

[CharlieH]

23 minutes ago, HappyAndRich said:

What is pathetic? If you stay in a country you will clearly need money in the country you stay. therefore it can not be considered pathetic that a countries immigration what to see sufficient funds for issue a visa. You will not need to transfer 800k into an account if you don´t want. There will still be a way to show monthly income, but it has to come into a thai bank account so it can be truly verified. That is not pathetic, but it´s needed. There has been too many expats living in this country on falsified document regarding proven income, so that must just come to an end. There has been no indications that Immigration will change the possibility to prove monthly income, just because one office has ne officer that told one expat this. The only change that is a fact so far, is that things need to can be shown in real light and can not be hidden behind a false paper. Everything else we will just have to wait and see what solution that is going to be available.

This may be "technically" correct but in practice is another matter and currently reports suggest that IO's are blinkered to the BE letter, that is the point and the concern of many. As your last sentence states, lets wait and see.

[HappyAndRich]

2 minutes ago, Expattaff1308 said:

Care to share how this is possible & acceptable to Immigration?

With the withdrawal of the Embassy Letter this is what most of us have been waiting for.

Your embassy letter has never been any proof of income. Just a paper worth nothing, that has wrongly been accepted by the Thai immigration. Now they are wide awake and understand that fact.

As I wrote at the end of my comment, we will all have to wait and see what possibilities that will be available. just to humour you, i can take a possible scenario.

1. Monthly transfers have to be made into a Thai bank account, which is as it should be when you stay somewhere you will need money anyway. Immigration say that they want you to have a minimum of 65K a month, and then that´s the rule to abide. If you have 65K transferred it´s easy to prove that by passbook or bank statements.

2. They will probably want to see another verification instead of embassy letter. That might then be your pension letter, that has been translated to thai and stamped by relevant authority. For married people earning income, they already want to know the origin of the money.

 

Just an example, but as said. There will open up a possibility, but what t will be is not clear yet.

[Snow Leopard]

There is another thread running if you haven't seen it. US going the same way. No letter from the embassy accepted from next year. One person. One immigration officer at this stage. 

 

I think this might possibly pan out to the citizens of countries that their embassies actually do verify income and the ones that don't as to which letters the Thais will accept. Just a thought. Just saying.  

[luckyluke]

Wait & See,

I am a Belgian and can use the Austrian Consulate in Pattaya to obtain a Letter of Income after presenting the necessary proof. 

Cost 1600 ThB. 

If Immigration doesn't need this letter anymore and only the proof of income, this will spare me 1600 ThB. 

I think the Austrian Honorary Consul will not be very pleased with this as Austrians, Belgians, Dutch, Germans, Luxembourgers are using his services. 

Edited October 24, 2018 by luckyluke

[White Tiger]

I have made a couple of Freedom Of Information requests on this matter. I hope the answers may be more enlightening than the information that has so far been released by the British Embassy.  Answers won't be forthcoming until near the end of November.  You can find the requests here:

 

 

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/notarial_services_by_british_emb_2

 

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/notarial_services_by_british_emb

 

 

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, CharlieH said:

This may be "technically" correct but in practice is another matter and currently reports suggest that IO's are blinkered to the BE letter, that is the point and the concern of many. As your last sentence states, lets wait and see.

And that is exactly what the main thrust of this thread is all about. But I don't agree with 'wait and see'. 

 

I have already requested of BE that they seek absolute confirmation from Thai Imm that we shall be able to present our own clear evidence that we have sufficient monthly income.

 

And I urge all other concerned individuals to do the same. There were 19 'likes' to my opening message. I hope that means there were at least 19 emails sent to BE.

 

ML

[Moonlover]

8 hours ago, Esso49 said:

there are over 620 people in Udon Thani province alone who gain their marriage extensions based on income according to my information.  That is extensions due to marriage not retirement, which the latter will increase the figure yet further ) then this equates to 2,556,000 Baht profit on this service per year.

I wonder which one of those nice people in Udon Thani Imm office will be the one has to tell 620 husbands, in front of their wives, that 'sorry you can no longer stay in Thailand because you do not have a letter from your embassy or 400,000 THB in the bank'..

 

Absolutely no way is that going to happen. A solution will be found.

[pontious]

1 hour ago, luckyluke said:

Wait & See,

I am a Belgian and can use the Austrian Consulate in Pattaya to obtain a Letter of Income after presenting the necessary proof. 

Cost 1600 ThB. 

If Immigration doesn't need this letter anymore and only the proof of income, this will spare me 1600 ThB. 

I think the Austrian Honorary Consul will not be very pleased with this as Austrians, Belgians, Dutch, Germans, Luxembourgers are using his services. 

You may show him letters etc with pension income etc but that is what the BE Does - It does not say he 'verifies' anything - that word is what is causing all this fuss.

[OJAS]

2 hours ago, HappyAndRich said:

There will still be a way to show monthly income, but it has to come into a thai bank account so it can be truly verified.

Do you really seriously believe that Thai Immigration are going to modify their existing income procedures and requirements solely for the benefit of us Brits? I really cannot see any way in which we'll simply need to provide proof of depositing 65k in a Thai bank account each month, despite what the Embassy have said. It'll be either 800k in the bank for 3 months, or a one-way flight back to Blighty before your existing retirement extension expires. And I am by no means alone on here in my view on this!

Edited October 24, 2018 by OJAS

[Esso49]

38 minutes ago, White Tiger said:

I have made a couple of Freedom Of Information requests on this matter. I hope the answers may be more enlightening than the information that has so far been released by the British Embassy.  Answers won't be forthcoming until near the end of November.  You can find the requests here:

 

 

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/notarial_services_by_british_emb_2

 

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/notarial_services_by_british_emb

 

 

same, waiting for feedback

 

[luckyluke]

I hope for the many British people(maybe for all of us) that I am wrong. 

I don't see things changing. 

The Immigration officer has it not too difficult for the moment, 

he check if there is a bank letter or an income letter, next to  a few copies. 

In Pattaya even done by trainees before handled to the officer. 

Not sure he and his superiors want he has to check incomes, mostly presented in different ways according to the nationality,

even different among the same nationality. 

This will cause  a lot of stress, something Thai people are utterly avoiding. 

Therefore what may eventually happen, is the complete disappearance of the Income Letter for all nationalities. 

 

Edited October 24, 2018 by luckyluke

[Esso49]

21 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

I wonder which one of those nice people in Udon Thani Imm office will be the one has to tell 620 husbands, in front of their wives, that 'sorry you can no longer stay in Thailand because you do not have a letter from your embassy or 400,000 THB in the bank'..

 

Absolutely no way is that going to happen. A solution will be found.

Agreed and as I have said elsewhere , the UD IO is now making enquiries and will give me some feedback at my next 90 day report in January.   They have likewise expressed concern at this turn of events because as you know Thai's are family orientated and those of us with Thai families, been here a long time, are accepted, unlike others who maybe have created the problem.

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, CharlieH said:

As your last sentence states, lets wait and see.

Given that Thai immigration are a key party here, we're probably going to be in for an exceedingly long wait which could well take us way beyond the cut-off point of next July for Embassy letters!

[HappyAndRich]

18 minutes ago, OJAS said:

Do you really seriously believe that Thai Immigration are going to modify their existing income procedures and requirements solely for the benefit of us Brits? I really cannot see any way in which we'll simply need to provide proof of depositing 65k in a Thai bank account each month, despite what the Embassy have said. It'll be either 800k in the bank for 3 months, or a one-way flight back to Blighty before your existing retirement extension expires. And I am by no means alone on here in my view on this!

Do you seriously believe this is only affecting Brits? All other income letters are going to follow the same destiny.

And, yes, I do believe they are going to offer an option, due to that the Immigration law states its 800K or 65K a month. Or do you think they will change the law only for the UK Embassys income letter problem?

[Expattaff1308]

If they want to go down the road of 40/65 deposits a month into a Thai account, this is easily verified by a bank letter similar to the 400/800k letter stating that Mr Expat has deposited 400/800k Thai Baht into his account over the last 12 mths which equates to 40/65k per month. (divided by 12 or the months you have been in Thailand) Backed up as they do now with with seasoned cash showing your Bank Book.

One has to wonder why this hasnt been suggested by the BE (though I dont think they understand the process of gaining an extension) or even by Immigration then this will alleviate all needs for embassy letters and meet the requirements to show an average income over the year which equates to the sums required by Immigration.

[Tanoshi]

4 minutes ago, Expattaff1308 said:

If they want to go down the road of 40/65 deposits a month into a Thai account, this is easily verified by a bank letter similar to the 400/800k letter stating that Mr Expat has deposited 400/800k Thai Baht into his account over the last 12 mths which equates to 40/65k per month. (divided by 12 or the months you have been in Thailand) Backed up as they do now with with seasoned cash showing your Bank Book.

One has to wonder why this hasnt been suggested by the BE (though I dont think they understand the process of gaining an extension) or even by Immigration then this will alleviate all needs for embassy letters and meet the requirements to show an average income over the year which equates to the sums required by Immigration.

That would be the logical and common sense solution as the way forward to prove income.

 

However unless all the Embassies withdraw the Income letters, Thai Immigration are hardly being forced into finding an alternative method, they may not even be concerned in considering an alternative method.

[cleverman]

8 minutes ago, Expattaff1308 said:

If they want to go down the road of 40/65 deposits a month into a Thai account, this is easily verified by a bank letter similar to the 400/800k letter stating that Mr Expat has deposited 400/800k Thai Baht into his account over the last 12 mths which equates to 40/65k per month. (divided by 12 or the months you have been in Thailand) Backed up as they do now with with seasoned cash showing your Bank Book.

One has to wonder why this hasnt been suggested by the BE (though I dont think they understand the process of gaining an extension) or even by Immigration then this will alleviate all needs for embassy letters and meet the requirements to show an average income over the year which equates to the sums required by Immigration.

For the millionths time in 2 topics, BE wont issue letters. They don't give a hoot over all this belly aching, get used to it,get the cash or move. I don't like it anymore than you,I got a lot of friends that haven't got two bob to rub together and will be sorry to see them go, but, that's life. 

[Tanoshi]

4 minutes ago, cleverman said:

For the millionths time in 2 topics, BE wont issue letters. They don't give a hoot over all this belly aching, get used to it,get the cash or move. I don't like it anymore than you,I got a lot of friends that haven't got two bob to rub together and will be sorry to see them go, but, that's life. 

You clearly misinterpreted Taff's post.

 

He suggested a letter from your Thai bank as proof of income (not the BE) which can be verified by TI, in exactly the same way the 400K or 800K can be demonstrated as being deposited in a Thai bank.

[cleverman]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

You clearly misinterpreted Taff's post.

 

He suggested a letter from your Thai bank as proof of income (not the BE) which can be verified by TI, in exactly the same way the 400K or 800K can be demonstrated as being deposited in a Thai bank.

If your embassy won't change their rules to keep you happy, do you really think IG will do the same. When pink pigs fly. IG want embassy letter. 

[steven2018]

Direct Deposit to a Thai bank then have them issue an account statement for Thai immigration.