Trump - U.S. to exit nuclear treaty, citing Russian violations

[rooster59]

Trump - U.S. to exit nuclear treaty, citing Russian violations

 

U.S. President Donald Trump addresses the audience during a campaign rally at Elko Regional Airport in Elko, Nevada, U.S., October 20, 2018. REUTERS/Jonathan Ernst

ELKO, Nev. (Reuters) - President Donald Trump said on Saturday the United States will exit the Cold-War era Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty that eliminated a class of nuclear weapons, in a move that is likely to upset Russia.

 

The INF treaty, negotiated by then-President Ronald Reagan and Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev and ratified by the U.S. Senate in 1988, required elimination of short-range and intermediate-range nuclear and conventional missiles by both countries.

 

"Russia has not, unfortunately, honoured the agreement so we're going to terminate the agreement and we're going to pull out," Trump told reporters after a rally in Nevada.

 

Washington believes Moscow is developing a ground-launched system in breach of the INF treaty that could allow Moscow to launch a nuclear strike on Europe at short notice. Russia has consistently denied any such violation.

 

Trump said the United States will develop the weapons unless Russia and China agree to a halt on development.

 

China is not a party to the treaty and has invested heavily in conventional missiles as part of an anti-access/area denial strategy, while the INF has banned U.S possession of ground- launched ballistic missiles or cruise missiles of ranges between 500 and 5,500 km (311 and 3,418 miles).

 

Trump's national security adviser, John Bolton, will visit Moscow next week.

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-10-21

[Carib]

Another brilliant move from "Dear Leader".  Keep on pissing off just about everybody because of hunches and warped thinking.  Winning all the way of course.....????

[car720]

If I didn't have kids I would say push the button and let's get this farce over and done with and give the whole damn place back to the dinosaurs.

[oldrunner]

It's always nice to hear from the no-nothing, experts on world nuclear treaty violations. Go back to bed sleepy brains.

[connda]

...as the 'Dooms-Day' clock inexorably advances a few more seconds toward the ultimate witching hour.  No doubt pushing 23:58:59

https://thebulletin.org/doomsday-clock/current-time/

[Odysseus123]

Ah,here we go...

[connda]

2 hours ago, car720 said:

If I didn't have kids I would say push the button and let's get this farce over and done with and give the whole damn place back to the dinosaurs.

Unfortunately, the psychopathic neo-cons pushing for the ultimate cull will hunker down in their dooms-day shelters to ride out the storm.  I can just imagine the world that these insane 'Morlocks' will create when they emerge from their holes.  The planet would get along just fine if homo sapiens simply followed the dinosaurs into extinction. 

[Odysseus123]

Yes the most apposite description of the mighty demagogue,his cabal and their outlook on life can best be described by this quote...(1775-on a troopship bound for Boston..)

 

"The pox above board,the plague between decks,Hell in the forecastle and the Devil at the helm."

Edited October 21, 2018 by Odysseus123

[farcanell]

A flawed treaty was better than no treaty.... but at least now they can both stop lying about their own breach’s of the treaty, and move forward with actual development of the new R&D weapons of mass destruction

 

buy arms manufacturing shares, that’s the only winning side here.

[Basil B]

 

if Trump does tear up the treaty then we Brits should kick all the American Troops out the UK and call on our NATO allies to kick America out of NATO.

 

We do not want to be in the middle of any spat Putin and Trump may have. 

[connda]

53 minutes ago, Basil B said:

 

if Trump does tear up the treaty then we Brits should kick all the American Troops out the UK and call on our NATO allies to kick America out of NATO.

 

We do not want to be in the middle of any spat Putin and Trump may have. 

...as the world's billionaires built dooms-day bunkers in New Zealand.  For some reason they think your Commonwealth cousins south of the equator are going to be outside of The Splatter-Zone.  Given the ANZUS Treaty, methinks not.  Players will be targets. 

[sirmud63]

1 hour ago, Basil B said:

 

if Trump does tear up the treaty then we Brits should kick all the American Troops out the UK and call on our NATO allies to kick America out of NATO.

 

We do not want to be in the middle of any spat Putin and Trump may have. 

if it wasnt for american troops you would be speaking german now , but it dosnt really matter very soon you will be speaking arabic.

[farcanell]

1 hour ago, Basil B said:

 

if Trump does tear up the treaty then we Brits should kick all the American Troops out the UK and call on our NATO allies to kick America out of NATO.

 

We do not want to be in the middle of any spat Putin and Trump may have. 

Whilst agreeing with the premise of challenging US membership in NATO, (or rather, replacing NATO with a new mechanism of European alliances) I can’t see how trumps decision to pull out of this treaty makes any real difference worldwide, as there’s still more than enough nukes to assure mutual destruction

 

So arguably its a good thing, as R&D weapons are being developed to counter enemy missiles that are “ten minute” from launch to impact weapons.

 

so.... if deployed in Eastern European countries, or underwater,  these will improve defense capabilities, and as both signatories have been violating the treaty anyway, it has arguably served its purpose (whilst China hasn’t been constrained by it as it’s a non signatory... therefore canning this treaty addresses that)

 

And.... Withdrawing from this treaty isn’t a new idea.... it’s been discussed many times over the last couple of decades, following breach’s by both sides.... seemingly neither can be trusted.

 

 

 

 

 

[candide]

It seems Trump needs to show he is not pro-Russia before mid-term elections.....

[farcanell]

2 minutes ago, sirmud63 said:

if it wasnt for american troops you would be speaking german now , but it dosnt really matter very soon you will be speaking arabic.

If not for European wars, America would still be an English colony, and as such, would have entered the war (both first and second) years earlier, saving millions of lives, verses profiting from arms dealing

 

Hell, Black Jack Pershing and the US army couldn’t even catch Pancho villa, let alone a cold, whilst the real soldiers were hard at it in France.... your learnt history is xenophobic.

[Srikcir]

2 hours ago, Basil B said:

if Trump does tear up the treaty

He can't.

It was ratified by Congress and Congress has to repeal it.

[spidermike007]

Looks like Tiny Don is listening to Bolton the madman again. Bolton never saw a treaty he liked and is a firm believer in American exceptionalism, like his master. Completely misguided policy, like all things Trump. This is what happens when you install a petulant, angry, bitter, overly emotional man child as a leader. 

 

Donald Trump. Making America less great by the day. Moving America backwards. Coddling dictators like Putin, Bin Salman, Duterte and Kim. And destroying long held alliances with important allies. A wannabe fascist. 

[Srikcir]

There's a lot of details and history in the agreement.

For example, the Treaty does not place any constraints on the testing, development or deployment of current or planned U.S. missile defense programs or U.S. long-range conventional strike capabilities.

https://www.nti.org/learn/treaties-and-regimes/treaty-between-the-united-states-of-america-and-the-russian-federation-on-measures-for-the-further-reduction-and-limitation-of-strategic-offensive-arms/

In 2014 that the United States at the time informed its NATO allies of Russia's suspected breach. It wasn't until recently that NATO officially confirmed Russia's activity constituted a likely violation.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/20/politics/donald-trump-us-arms-agreement-russia/index.html

[Dumbastheycome]

While the  majority  of the  world keeps  pushing  back Trump  keeps  following the  dictate  to  yet another war  to lose. 

[Tug]

Ah yess the master negotiator at work lol trying to look tough for the midterms are we?what about sanctions?do you think you are more skilled than all the presidents since jfk I think not you have blowen up the deficit with your tax scam and now you want to start an arms race really?for real?do you really think the majority of us have forgotten your previous fiascos this fool needs to be put in check ASAP!!common blue wave!!!

[JHolmesJr]

This does not sound like the Trump that Putin elected.

[neeray]

15 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

While the  majority  of the  world keeps  pushing  back Trump  keeps  following the  dictate  to  yet another war  to lose. 

I recall during the reign of George W. Bush that he uttered words something to the effect of "war gives a president real power" (I said "recall". Do not ask me for a link, I have already searched and can not find one. This was my "recollection").

That being said, as Trump is power hungry, it is scary to think that he too may ascribe to this theory.

[Morch]

I think many of the posters above would benefit from reading a bit on what this treaty is and isn't, what it covers and what Trump can or cannot do regarding "exit". A couple of good links in a post above by @Srikcir.

 

There was, apparently, a Russian breach of terms. To put it more clearly, Russia developed a weapon which it agreed not to, and tested it. Somehow, that doesn't seem to feature much on posts above.

 

And here's the thing - China isn't a side to this, Russia apparently developed such weapons anyway. The US, by all accounts, kept to the terms. Yes, I'm sure that there are blueprints and maybe a prototype somewhere, but that's not quite the same as having an actual weapon (whether operational or undergoing testing).

 

So, if Trump "exited" the treaty (see comment above regarding Congress) today, the US would actually be at a disadvantage - with no corresponding weapon and no treaty as recourse. On the other hand, the way this was announced would reinforce prevailing views of the US under the Trump administration, and paint the US as the "warmongering", destabilizing party.

 

Getting a military advantage (granted, a limited one) on the US, scoring a PR point, and US international prestige going down another notch - Putin ought to be pleased.

[Scott]

Off-topic graphic reported and removed.  

[janclaes47]

8 hours ago, Srikcir said:

He can't.

It was ratified by Congress and Congress has to repeal it.

I wonder which party controls congress?

 

You know?

Edited October 21, 2018 by janclaes47

[how241]

Scary times we live in...

[Tug]

In response to Morch with all due respect sir in my humble opinion a competent leader would call the Russians out level heavy sanctions to bring them in line instead we have a man that has stabbed our allies in the guts sucked up to despots devided the nation blown up the deficit wants to throw out what competent leaders have negoated over the years.we have seen this guy at work Singapore and helenski come to mind now he wants an arms race in the mists of a trade war dump the chump(trump)

[neeray]

2 hours ago, Tug said:

In response to Morch with all due respect sir in my humble opinion a competent leader would call the Russians out level heavy sanctions to bring them in line instead we have a man that has stabbed our allies in the guts sucked up to despots devided the nation blown up the deficit wants to throw out what competent leaders have negoated over the years.we have seen this guy at work Singapore and helenski come to mind now he wants an arms race in the mists of a trade war dump the chump(trump)

You missed on his sucking up to the Saudis now. Not too many fascists left for him to kiss ass with. MAGA ....... What a hoot !!!

[sirmud63]

13 hours ago, farcanell said:

If not for European wars, America would still be an English colony, and as such, would have entered the war (both first and second) years earlier, saving millions of lives, verses profiting from arms dealing

 

Hell, Black Jack Pershing and the US army couldn’t even catch Pancho villa, let alone a cold, whilst the real soldiers were hard at it in France.... your learnt history is xenophobic.

and recent history proves my point .

[bendejo]

8 hours ago, JHolmesJr said:

This does not sound like the Trump that Putin elected.

 

That's the idea: going into the mid-terms he's showing that he is not Putin's biotch like the fake news says.  In three weeks this issue will be gone.

Then June of next year when the 2020 hopefuls start lining up and his opponents (both Dem and GOP, if there are any GOP pols with enough spine to challenge him*) start calling him on it, he'll deny the issue ever existed at all.  And the cherry on top will be "YOU are fake news." 

 

*Please run Ted Cruz!  The political reality show that US tv/cable news has become needs a cage match.