How Secure is 800 000 B in Thai Bank

[elgenon]

On 10/25/2018 at 7:37 PM, simoh1490 said:

From Post 14 above:

 

"Based on supervisory data on the incidence of insider abuse and fraud at FDIC-insured banks, we find that insider abuse and internal fraud, often by senior bank officers, were present among 37 percent of the 1,237 U.S. commercial and mutual savings banks that failed between 1989 and 2015". 

http://clsbluesky.law.columbia.edu/2018/04/18/detection-of-insider-abuse-and-bank-fraud-among-u-s-failed-banks/

I was suggesting money taken from individual accounts, I didn't see any such thing in this article. Apples to oranges.

[simoh1490]

17 minutes ago, elgenon said:

I was suggesting money taken from individual accounts, I didn't see any such thing in this article. Apples to oranges.

Well if the money didn't come from individual accounts, where did it come from! It's money that is stolen by fraud, all banks require customer deposits to cover their assets hence it's customer money.

[simoh1490]

17 minutes ago, elgenon said:

I was suggesting money taken from individual accounts, I didn't see any such thing in this article. Apples to oranges.

Well if the money didn't come from individual accounts, where did it come from! It's money that is stolen by fraud, all banks require customer deposits to cover their assets hence it's customer money.

[elgenon]

2 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

Well if the money didn't come from individual accounts, where did it come from! It's money that is stolen by fraud, all banks require customer deposits to cover their assets hence it's customer money.

So you are saying the story says that individual depositors lost money due to bank employees removing money from individual accounts? Please show me where it says that. Banks can lose money to fraud and it is the shareholders that lose.

What you say in your quote is simply not true. No way are customer deposits used to cover lost assets. Have you ever heard of shareholders? Do you have education/training in financial business? Please do some research into this subject it will help you in your life.

 

[Scouse123]

The only thing the above links above regards US banks tell me is that your cash is probably a lot safer in one of the Thai bigger banks than it is in the US smaller and mid-sized banks!.............. especially looking at the fraud and amount of US bank failures.????

[simoh1490]

Just now, elgenon said:

So you are saying the story says that individual depositors lost money due to bank employees removing money from individual accounts? Please show me where it says that. Banks can lose money to fraud and it is the shareholders that lose.

What you say in your quote is simply not true. No way are customer deposits used to cover lost assets. Have you ever heard of shareholders? Do you have education/training in financial business? Please do some research into this subject it will help you in your life.

 

1

Please show me where it doesn't say that, it says fraud, interpret that how you wish.

 

But customers deposit funds into banks which then become a liability on the bank's balance sheet and is then matched with a corresponding asset. If either of those two things is lost through fraud they must be replaced either through insurance or from the bank itself. Ultimately it is the customer's deposit that has been lost since that is the first link in the chain and the basis on which a bank is able to do business in the first place, albeit the customer themselves may not necessarily lose out directly in that scenario by virtue of insurance protection.

 

And thank you no, I do not expect to do research into this subject because at nearly age 70 I doubt it will help me in my life although it could have been useful fifty years ago before I first entered the banking field.

 

 

[elgenon]

7 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Please show me where it doesn't say that, it says fraud, interpret that how you wish.

 

But customers deposit funds into banks which then become a liability on the bank's balance sheet and is then matched with a corresponding asset. If either of those two things is lost through fraud they must be replaced either through insurance or from the bank itself. Ultimately it is the customer's deposit that has been lost since that is the first link in the chain and the basis on which a bank is able to do business in the first place, albeit the customer themselves may not necessarily lose out directly in that scenario by virtue of insurance protection.

 

And thank you no, I do not expect to do research into this subject because at nearly age 70 I doubt it will help me in my life although it could have been useful fifty years ago before I first entered the banking field.

 

 

I am not into "interpreting" which means you are reading into the article something that is not stated.  If you want to make up "facts", up to you. Asking me to "show you where it doesn't say that" shows me logic fails you. Your argument is specious at best. Please stick to facts.

I have to opt out of this banal conversation. Again, what you are saying is totally wrong. If Walmart loses money to fraud, the customers don't pay. Same same. There is a TVer who says "I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you". Adios amigo.

[gaviny]

I know a guy who had the necessary retirement funds in a bank I shall not name for the usual reasons. Some jerk got his ATM or made a copy from a skimmer and was captured on video going from town to different town, day by day, withdrawing the max daily allowable and this never raised a flag to this bank. Last I heard the account owner was having a devil of a time getting the bank to cough up the funds. This guy could PROVE he was not in any of those towns at the time but the bank was balking. I would suggest as did the above Trekkie NEVER have an ATM card for any account with a significant amount of money.

So obviously his bank never sent him an SMS everytime a Atm withdrawal was made ? BKK Bank sends me a weekly update and a sms for every withdrawal.

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[AbeSurd]

On 10/26/2018 at 3:17 AM, Kerryd said:

If you are leaving the 800k in an account specifically for your Extension of Stay and do not plan on using it, then I would suggest opening a Fixed Term savings account.

 

At Bangkok Bank, they offer a Fixed Term account that auto-renews every year and earns 1.5% per annum, so on 800k you'd earn 12,000 baht in interest. Minus taxes and you'd have about 10,000 left over which is more than enough to pay for your annual Extension of Stay and a Multi Re-entry permit (if you use those).

The interest can be deposited into your regular savings account or you can leave it in the Fixed term account where it will earn a wee bit more.

 

The good thing about the Fixed Term account is that, if you need the money suddenly (i.e. for a medical emergency) you can withdraw it at any time, but you will lose any interest earned to that point. (If you need the money that badly, I'm sure the couple thousand baht you'd lose in interest wouldn't be a major concern any ways.)

 

No ATM cards issued with the Fixed Term accounts, just the passbook. Lock that up somewhere safe. Chances of a bank employee ripping you off are so minuscule that it's not worth considering.

Yep. I'd agree with this. Or maybe split the 800,000 between two fixed accounts with two different banks. In my experience Thai Immigration are happy with that.

 

The only down side with the fixed accounts I know something about (with SCB and Bangkok Bank) is that although you can view the accounts in online banking, you can't actually make any transactions to or from the accounts online - you have to go into a branch to do that.

 

 

[Kerryd]

5 hours ago, AbeSurd said:

The only down side with the fixed accounts I know something about (with SCB and Bangkok Bank) is that although you can view the accounts in online banking, you can't actually make any transactions to or from the accounts online - you have to go into a branch to do that.

I consider that an "up side" as it means you have to show up at the bank, with the bank book (and probably your passport) in order to make any changes to that account.
Even if someone else gains access to your internet banking log-in info (like a family member), or the actual bank book, they couldn't drain the Fixed Term account(s).

That was fortunate for me when dear old (departed) dad passed on back in 2010. His "female friend" was able to (somehow) empty his savings account after he died (even though I was in possession of his Passport, ATM card and bank books).

 

But she couldn't touch the money he had in a Fixed Term account.

Not sure how she was able to drain his savings account (as I had dad's passport, ATM card and bank books) and the bank couldn't explain it either.

I should have gone to the bank right after he died and had them freeze the accounts but I was a bit rushed as I had to get back to work (I flew out the day after the cremation ceremony). I thought that with me having all his ID and bank stuff that there'd be no way anyone could access the account.
I was wrong.

 

But at least she wasn't able to get the money he had in that Fixed Term account. (Apparently she was quite upset about that, and with the fact that I'd come back on holiday before she'd been able to clean him out totally. Naturally, less than a year later, she was broke and apparently working on Walking Street, despite having made nearly a million baht off of dad from the money she stole and the money she got in his WIll.)

Not being able to "play" with that money via Internet Banking is also a plus as it removes the temptation to "borrow" a little bit of it, then a little more, then just a wee bit more to tide you over until the next pension cheque arrives and then - oops - the 3 month "seasoning" deadline has arrived and your "800k" (or 400k if you're married) needs a lot of cash in a hurry.

I can look at the balance on the internet and check the interest rate and see if the interest payment was made and that's all I need to do. If I did need to get at the money for some reason, then it would probably be important enough of a reason that making a trip to the bank would be the least of my concerns.

[AbeSurd]

6 hours ago, Kerryd said:

I consider that an "up side" as it means you have to show up at the bank, with the bank book (and probably your passport) in order to make any changes to that account.
Even if someone else gains access to your internet banking log-in info (like a family member), or the actual bank book, they couldn't drain the Fixed Term account(s).

That was fortunate for me when dear old (departed) dad passed on back in 2010. His "female friend" was able to (somehow) empty his savings account after he died (even though I was in possession of his Passport, ATM card and bank books).

 

But she couldn't touch the money he had in a Fixed Term account.

Not sure how she was able to drain his savings account (as I had dad's passport, ATM card and bank books) and the bank couldn't explain it either.

I should have gone to the bank right after he died and had them freeze the accounts but I was a bit rushed as I had to get back to work (I flew out the day after the cremation ceremony). I thought that with me having all his ID and bank stuff that there'd be no way anyone could access the account.
I was wrong.

 

But at least she wasn't able to get the money he had in that Fixed Term account. (Apparently she was quite upset about that, and with the fact that I'd come back on holiday before she'd been able to clean him out totally. Naturally, less than a year later, she was broke and apparently working on Walking Street, despite having made nearly a million baht off of dad from the money she stole and the money she got in his WIll.)

Not being able to "play" with that money via Internet Banking is also a plus as it removes the temptation to "borrow" a little bit of it, then a little more, then just a wee bit more to tide you over until the next pension cheque arrives and then - oops - the 3 month "seasoning" deadline has arrived and your "800k" (or 400k if you're married) needs a lot of cash in a hurry.

I can look at the balance on the internet and check the interest rate and see if the interest payment was made and that's all I need to do. If I did need to get at the money for some reason, then it would probably be important enough of a reason that making a trip to the bank would be the least of my concerns.

I take your point about security - but when I'm back in the UK it would sometimes be very useful to have full online access to my Thai fixed accounts.

That's an interesting story. I'm a fully paid-up member of the rose-tinted brigade. And I assume this is a thread where me and my kind are supposed to making reassuring noises about Thai banks. As a cautious guy, I nevertheless feel compelled to ask if your father used online banking and does the supposition therefore have to be that that's how his 'female friend' accessed his savings account?

I assume your father wasn't married to his 'female friend'? I did hear a story about how, a long time before 2010, a Thai wife managed to access her (living) farang husband's money (not in a joint account) by simply telling the bank "but I'm his wife". (She may also have told them he'd gone back to the USA and wouldn't be returning to Thailand.)

If online banking or marriage weren't involved, then perhaps the fact that the 'female friend' was named in your father's will has something to do with it?

[Kerryd]

On 10/30/2018 at 2:53 PM, AbeSurd said:

I take your point about security - but when I'm back in the UK it would sometimes be very useful to have full online access to my Thai fixed accounts.

That's an interesting story. I'm a fully paid-up member of the rose-tinted brigade. And I assume this is a thread where me and my kind are supposed to making reassuring noises about Thai banks. As a cautious guy, I nevertheless feel compelled to ask if your father used online banking and does the supposition therefore have to be that that's how his 'female friend' accessed his savings account?

I assume your father wasn't married to his 'female friend'? I did hear a story about how, a long time before 2010, a Thai wife managed to access her (living) farang husband's money (not in a joint account) by simply telling the bank "but I'm his wife". (She may also have told them he'd gone back to the USA and wouldn't be returning to Thailand.)

If online banking or marriage weren't involved, then perhaps the fact that the 'female friend' was named in your father's will has something to do with it?

Naw - she was able to scam the bank. She had no clue she was even in the Will and dad didn't have internet banking. He barely knew how to play a game of Solitaire on the computer (and couldn't close it after so he'd just start a new copy of the game and keep doing that until the computer ran out of memory, then call me to come fix it) !

 

What happened was that his companion knew he was quite ill. She convinced him that she needed money to buy medicine for him. To the tune of 20,000 baht per day ! I was working at the time and found out when I got home, mainly because as soon as she found out I was back she tried to clean out his account in one withdrawal.

The bank refused and called dad - he thought they said that his account was empty.

 

He called me, I got his bank book and went to the bank and that's when I found out she'd been taking 20k per day out of his account for a couple weeks and then tried to take 250k in one day. I kept the bank book and told dad what she was doing. Frik - for 20k a day he could have been in the Bangkok Pattaya Hospital in a private room full of sexy young nurses !
I told him to dump his companion and I'd hire a private nurse to look after him but he felt sorry for her because she had a young daughter (and he probably knew she also had a boyfriend as well). She had also stayed with him while he was sick. I'm sure if she could have emptied his account sooner she'd have been long gone though.

A couple days later dad called and asked me to give him his bank book back because she needed to buy more "medicine" (frikken herbal supplements from the local pharmacy was all she was buying). Sure enough she went back to taking 20k a day out of his account again.

I guess the bank had gotten used to her taking that out everyday that they didn't bother checking with dad anymore and when she showed up without a bank book, she probably conned them into giving her a new one (maybe told them dad was too sick and she'd get him to sign it and bring it back or something). Or she got a new ATM card (maybe the same way).
Like I mentioned - the bank had no idea how she did it and it was months later when I found out about it and went to see them.

She could have told them she was his wife and probably nobody would have questioned her, especially if they'd seen them together previously.

I screwed up by not being more diligent and having the bank freeze his account(s) as soon as he died. That would have prevented her from being able to get anything out of them (or would have - maybe).

Lessons learned (the hard way). 

Like I said though, at least she wasn't able to get at the Fixed Account. 

Which reminds me - there is another kind of account you could use that is almost like a Fixed Term account, but you can access it through internet banking.

 

I had it before - it is like a "mutual fund" account where, when you put money into it, they buy "units" of (whatever fund I guess). If you need the money, you can put in a "sell" order and within a couple (business) days they sell (however many) units and put the money in your savings account.

If the value of the fund has gone up, you make money.

 

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

No problem in thailand, until there is a problem.

which means, you can have your account here for 30 years no problem.

but if one day there is problem, money missing / account disapeared - than

go speak thai to the wall.

for example, i had some things stored in a hotel storage room.

one day all gone. stolen.

i went to the police, which told me kindly : "we can't help

because it is between you and the hotel".

got it?

and if it would be me who steal from a hotel, will the police tell the hotel

they can't help cause bla bla.

same same with banks here.

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

a new problem with thai banks is the form attached here, which requires you

to state your income and net worth when opening an account.

note the last lines near the signature, which is like a sworm statement.

this gives the bank legal power to sue / fine you in case

your statement was not accurate.

[Sheryl]

Oh for heavens sake...seriously "thinking too much".

There are rare problems with bank accounts in any country. Very rare. Most of us have Thai bank accounts and have had for years without incident.

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[Thailand J]

7 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Oh for heavens sake...seriously "thinking too much".

way too much.

usual precautions. more then that will drive you crazy.

 

[JimGant]

A fixed deposit account makes sense -- monetarily -- for storing your 800k needed for your annual Immigration extension renewal. The current 1.5% is competitive with my US CD rates, plus the 15% tax withholding is refundable.

 

However. Unlike my savings account with Bangkok Bank, which is solely in my name but which has my wife's name on it as Power of Attorney (allowing her access, although legally only while I'm alive), a fixed account can't be accessed/closed by my wife. It can only pass to her through probate. And if you read all the Will threads, probate is the bread and butter of the lawyer mafia -- and expensive. They've even declared that Amphur Wills need go through probate (this was said right here on the lawyer subforum, now discontinued).

 

I just sent 800k to my Bangkok Bank savings account, in preparation for extension renewal. And, I just had my wife's name attached as POA (requiring a new passbook be issued). I confirmed with the bank manager that, yes, POA was effective only while I'm alive -- but with a wink and nod (seriously), she said nobody is going to be concerned that she accesses my account after my death. So, bank managers apparently aren't afraid of the lawyer mafia crying 'foul.' And, so, the wife has been briefed to clean it out before the barbecue. (And, as she is sole beneficiary in my Will, who's going to file charges?)

 

So, what's the cost of probate? The only asset I have needing probate is my bank account. Do I give up 12000 baht per year in interest by not going the fixed account route? Or is the cost of probate not so bad?

 

Or, would the bank accept an Amphur Will? After all, this kind of Will was designed for the working class, and thus to avoid probate and its attendant cost. Thus, probably still acceptable by bank managers not intimidated by the lawyer mafia.

 

Anyhow, need to explore the cost of probate. If cheap enough, and as wife doesn't need the 800k soonest, maybe the fixed account is the way to go -- especially if rates go up, as it looks like they will...

 

Not a major decision. But an interesting one. Especially when I factor in my dislike of lawyers.

 

 

 

 

[moontang]

you can set up the FD so it goes into a ATM card linked savings when it matures...