Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[ukrules]

Just now, blackhorse said:

Where are the rest.. The Canadians, Germans, the ozzies who have recently made an announcement on there website they WILL NOT be changing there stat dec system

The US confirmed nothing was changing just last week.....????

[blackhorse]

The US confirmed nothing was changing just last week.....[emoji849]

Show me the website announcement? Where they said they will not change anything

I can direct you to the oz website where they made their announcement and it's still there

End of the day its all about what's in black and white and not what internet strangers said that they heard

[bkk6060]

The agents always use the seeding route.

They will be busier then ever and I bet their fees will increase.

 

[elviajero]

48 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

You don't know for a fact that all embassies were told. You couldn't know!

It's more than a coincidence that the 2 biggest western embassies were targeted

Where are the rest.. The Canadians, Germans, the ozzies who have recently made an announcement on there website they WILL NOT be changing there stat dec system

These are the facts for now. Unless your crystal ball tells you otherwise
 

When the British Embassy announcement was made I said (11th October) others would follow and I was right.

 

Why would you think they’ve only requested this from the British and US embassies. That would be very strange and they couldn’t impose conditions on just two nationalities.

 

There will be no point other embassies issuing the old style letters after Jan 1st. If they decide to issue new letters as requested then great for those nationalities, but I’m sure others will follow and refuse to comply with Thailand’s request.

[chicowoodduck]

Since I will never leave a large amount of ???????????????????? in any Thai bank, looks like my timing is perfect to launch myself out of this dump.....onward and upward we go.....woo, woo....????????????????????

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, blackhorse said:

You don't know for a fact that all embassies were told. You couldn't know!

It's more than a coincidence that the 2 biggest western embassies were targeted

Where are the rest.. The Canadians, Germans, the ozzies who have recently made an announcement on there website they WILL NOT be changing there stat dec system

These are the facts for now. Unless your crystal ball tells you otherwise
 

So the AUS embassy is going to continue charging for notarising a statutory declaration that possibly isn’t going to be accepted by immigration.

 

“We understand that the British Embassy in Bangkok will no longer be providing British nationals with letters confirming their income from 1 January 2019.

The Australian Embassy does not issue income letters. Our notarial services include the witnessing of Australian statutory declarations for Australian citizens, or for use in Australia. This process remains unchanged.”

Edited October 26, 2018 by elviajero

[sqwakvfr]

I just confirmed with my US bank that a single transfer to my Thai Bank would cost $45.  So the 65,000 Baht per month transfer scheme would cost me $540 per year.  Therefore, if my Dec Extension is not approved then as they say adios.  

[garyk]

7 hours ago, Sheryl said:

This turn of events has gotten many people of limited means thinking and worrying about their financial situation here.

 

If you are one of these, I would like to add for your consideration:

 

(1)  don't limit your focus to just the immigration requirements. Consider also that the cost of living in Thailand has increased substantially in the past 10 years or so and will almost certainly continue to do so. Even if this does not lead eventually to raising the required income for retirement (and it may) it will certainly affect whether you can make ends meet. What you can live on today is not hat you can live on 10 years from now.

 

(2) You will almost certainly have significant medical expenses sooner or later. Thai hospitals will not treat you for free. Even in  government hospital it can cost as much as 1 million or more for a single hospitalization if you need prolonged ICU care and multiple specialized surgeries. And it is not as simple as just dying if you don't have the money (as some claim to be their plan). You face living with unnecessary disability and severe pain if you cannot afford the care you need. You face dying in horrific pain for lack of simple pain killers . Lying in your own filth because you can't afford a caretaker or nursing home. etec etc. I say this because, a few Veterans aside, most of the people with incomes below the threshold have neither health insurance nor sufficient savings to be considered self-insured.

 

I have seen some really horrific situations here resulting from this, ones that led to distance relatives back home having to be tracked down and persuaded (much to their outrage at times) to help pay for the repatriation of someone who could not pay for their care here. Lanna Care has been involved in many such repatriations as well - too many. And believe me, when it goes down like that, you don't leave with your dignity intact.

 

So please, think carefully and realistically abut your situation, and factor into your thinking not just present day costs and Immigration requirements but future costs and contingencies like illness as well.  Ask yourself if you are you really, truly situated such that you can provide for yourself in Thailand - in sickness or health, fit or disabled, independent or needing live in help or a residential facility - for the rest of your life, understanding that costs of doing so will likely continue to steadily rise?

 

If you cannot honestly answer yes, it will be far easier to make a well planned exit -  whether to a less expensive foreign country or back to your country of nationality - than to wait until things have become unmanageable.

 

 

 

 

The problem is that this canned statement is used no matter where you live. Whether you are in your home country or living abroad.

Tell that to the millions of poor Asians that come here for a better life!

Tell that to any one in the world that wants a better quality in life. And could get it by relocating. Even if for a few remaining years.

Tell that to the thousands of Guatemalans, Mexicans that jump the fence to get work and live a better life while they are still able. 

No offense, and I agree that it is a good thought. But not realistic in any shape or form. 

 

 

[bkk6060]

17 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

I just confirmed with my US bank that a single transfer to my Thai Bank would cost $45.  So the 65,000 Baht per month transfer scheme would cost me $540 per year.  Therefore, if my Dec Extension is not approved then as they say adios.  

Why don't you get sn account with no fees??

[bkk6060]

28 minutes ago, chicowoodduck said:

Since I will never leave a large amount of ???????????????????? in any Thai bank, looks like my timing is perfect to launch myself out of this dump.....onward and upward we go.....woo, woo....????????????????????

Try Myanmar or Laos.

I hear they are super and banks very safe.

[LomSak27]

4 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

5 hours ago, HHTel said:

/ I see the same problem with any embassy.  They can confirm the evidence, but that's all it is.  It's not verification.

I have read that tens of times this week, but that seems wrong to me.

I don't know how that works for other countries, but I am from France and every year I receive a Tax Notice that show the revenues I declared and the taxes I had to pay.

Any person who get a copy of this document can "verify" it from Internet: There is a Tax Service link on the document, and also 2 codes you have to enter on the form; it will then show you the original document generated by the Tax Service. So it's easy to verify my yearly revenues.

I would be very surprised that only my country uses such simple system... 

 

Don't fall off your chair because of surprise then, other countries have different systems. I have a couple mutual fund accounts, which I do not have to list in tax statements given certain parameters. Same when I sell off a portion of shares for cash in hand. So no a tax statement would not verify. 

You do what you got to do so next year I will put 800K in account if that is what they want, but I do not like the transfer fees, the fact that I am not earning anywhere what I would if it was in the Mutual fund. I am not happy it is in Baht either. Likely the biggest pain is making sure I get it correctly set up so it can be claimed by heirs if something bad happens to me .... and not revert to the bank or state. Looks like I will be jumping though more hoops in a years time, and what fun.

[Chongalulu]

19 hours ago, robblok said:

Why an exodus ? its not that hard to put money in a Thai account. If you have the money its just moving money around.

Firstly,having 800k sitting in a low interest account is an appalling investment and secondly having a sufficiently high income enables you to spend and support yourself in the country to the advantage of the Thai economy. My capital is tied up in investment property and stocks which gives me an income over 4 x the required minimum. Economics not your strong suit I guess?

[garyk]

8 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Why don't you get sn account with no fees??

What is an sn account?

[jeffandgop]

When Bangkok Bank announced that they, beginning April next year, that would no longer accept ACH transfers from the US (go search for the topic posted elsewhere for details), I knew I had to find another bank to deposit my pension & social security payments and find an inexpensive manner to receive my payments in Thailand.

 

I found out that my credit union has a no fee debit card, so now I deposit my payments into my credit union and withdraw whatever money I need (up to the amount limits set by my credit union which currently is $5K) at the teller/counter (to avoid Bangkok Bank ATM withdrawal limits) of Bangkok Bank. The conversion rate I have been receiving from Bangkok Bank has been the TT rate which was the same rate I was getting when depositing my retirement payments directly into my Bangkok Bank account. AND, on the back end of these debit withdrawals, being a MasterCard debit card, I receive the MC foreign currency exchange rate which is always (so far), better than the TT rate. Meaning, when I go into Bangkok Bank to withdraw $1,000 USD using my debit card, I receive in baht the money based on the TT rate and in a few days the actual withdrawal charge applied to my credit union account is less than $1,000.

 

That's how I am avoiding wire transfer fees- as well as the previous Bangkok Bank NY charge and Bangkok Bank Thailand charge when I was directly depositing into Bangkok Bank....

 

I used the income method for my extension of stay renewal earlier this year- until IMM specifically announces their requirements for renewal based on income, I will use the 800K method next year.

 

[JLCrab]

So many on here are saying that they don't want to put 800K baht in a Thai Bank account because they can get a much greater return on that roughly US$25,000 somewhere else.

 

Maybe so. But then one has to decide just how much it is worth to them to live in Thailand as opposed to somewhere else.

[blackhorse]

So the AUS embassy is going to continue charging for notarising a statutory declaration that possibly isn’t going to be accepted by immigration.

 

“We understand that the British Embassy in Bangkok will no longer be providing British nationals with letters confirming their income from 1 January 2019.

The Australian Embassy does not issue income letters. Our notarial services include the witnessing of Australian statutory declarations for Australian citizens, or for use in Australia. This process remains unchanged.”

No. Immigration has not announced ANYTHING

 

Of course there will be an embassy fee

 

Why is that so difficult to understand on these threads.

 

So much misinformation and interpretation. Just keep up with immigration website. Book mark it. Not rocket science [emoji4]

 

[bkk6060]

5 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

So many on here are saying that they don't want to put 800K baht in a Thai Bank account because they can get a much greater return on that roughly US$25,000 somewhere else.

 

Maybe so. But then one has to decide just how much it is worth to them to live in Thailand as opposed to somewhere else.

Many do not have the money which to me is a self evaluation.

Others will justify it by telling themselves the bank will steal their money.

Both rather sad scenarios.

 

[chicowoodduck]

19 minutes ago, nchuckle said:

Firstly,having 800k sitting in a low interest account is an appalling investment and secondly having a sufficiently high income enables you to spend and support yourself in the country to the advantage of the Thai economy. My capital is tied up in investment property and stocks which gives me an income over 4 x the required minimum. Economics not your strong suit I guess?

My strong suit is knowing how much hoop jumping I can tolerate....and I know the fine line between nourishment and punishment and when to go to Plan B......????

[Thaidream]

4 hours ago, elviajero said:

know what the current rules are, but where is it stated by immigration that after Jan 1st they will continue to accept letters (in the old format) that do not confirm the embassy has validated the income?

Per US Embassy- their written data states they have confirmed with Thai Imm the letters will be accepted for 6 months. In addition, CM; CW and Jomtien have always accepted them 45 days in advance.  ISame info put out by the British Embassy for its people. Since both have put out the same info- I would tend to believe it is accurate.

[Larryst]

Why can't they use the 1099R issued each year for SSA, annuities and other tax forms used for filing taxes. For income verification.

[garyk]

18 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

So many on here are saying that they don't want to put 800K baht in a Thai Bank account because they can get a much greater return on that roughly US$25,000 somewhere else.

 

Maybe so. But then one has to decide just how much it is worth to them to live in Thailand as opposed to somewhere else.

Actually I agree with this. If I wanted to spend 24/7 here I would definitely put the money in the bank no problem.

[marcusarelus]

2 hours ago, onera1961 said:

This is not true. I do believe many can do bit don't want to do. For me, it will be O-A visa every two years. I will gladly show my funds in the US. Though I am no sure how long I can continue, but I even don't report 90-day as I leave the country before 90-day is due to avoid spending a day in CW for 90-day reporting. I can go to a nearby country (even to Europe/USA sometimes), spend a few days and come back. In the first 10 months of my O-A visa, I am in/out of Thailand 9 times. 

To be clear this is what you fantasize about doing but have not done it yet? 

[garyk]

2 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

To be clear this is what you fantasize about doing but have not done it yet? 

I did it for a couple of years before I got a retirement visa. I enjoyed it. But, I like travel. So not for everyone I guess.

[HHTel]

59 minutes ago, elviajero said:

So the AUS embassy is going to continue charging for notarising a statutory declaration that possibly isn’t going to be accepted by immigration.

 

“We understand that the British Embassy in Bangkok will no longer be providing British nationals with letters confirming their income from 1 January 2019.

The Australian Embassy does not issue income letters. Our notarial services include the witnessing of Australian statutory declarations for Australian citizens, or for use in Australia. This process remains unchanged.”

But isn't that exactly the same as the US Embassy has been doing to date and they're ceasing that method. If I understand it correctly, the intimation is that the Thai authorities will not accept them.

As has been said, it doesn't matter whether the embassies continue to issue these letters/affidavits, but whether the Thai immigration offices will accept them.

[Paul3456]

4 hours ago, jeffandgop said:

I found out that my credit union has a no fee debit card, so now I deposit my payments into my credit union and withdraw whatever money I need (up to the amount limits set by my credit union which currently is $5K) at the teller/counter (to avoid Bangkok Bank ATM withdrawal limits) of Bangkok Bank. The conversion rate I have been receiving from Bangkok Bank has been the TT rate which was the same rate I was getting when depositing my retirement payments directly into my Bangkok Bank account. AND, on the back end of these debit withdrawals, being a MasterCard debit card, I receive the MC foreign currency exchange rate which is always (so far), better than the TT rate. Meaning, when I go into Bangkok Bank to withdraw $1,000 USD using my debit card, I receive in baht the money based on the TT rate and in a few days the actual withdrawal charge applied to my credit union account is less than $1,000.

Just curious, does Bangkok Bank charge a fee to do the over the counter withdrawl or is it free? Also, did you have a problem getting them to do this? I was in my BB branch one time and I witnessed someone trying to do this and the teller refused and told them to use the ATM machine.

[marcusarelus]

40 minutes ago, jeffandgop said:

When Bangkok Bank announced that they, beginning April next year, that would no longer accept ACH transfers from the US (go search for the topic posted elsewhere for details), I knew I had to find another bank to deposit my pension & social security payments and find an inexpensive manner to receive my payments in Thailand.

 

I found out that my credit union has a no fee debit card, so now I deposit my payments into my credit union and withdraw whatever money I need (up to the amount limits set by my credit union which currently is $5K) at the teller/counter (to avoid Bangkok Bank ATM withdrawal limits) of Bangkok Bank. The conversion rate I have been receiving from Bangkok Bank has been the TT rate which was the same rate I was getting when depositing my retirement payments directly into my Bangkok Bank account. AND, on the back end of these debit withdrawals, being a MasterCard debit card, I receive the MC foreign currency exchange rate which is always (so far), better than the TT rate. Meaning, when I go into Bangkok Bank to withdraw $1,000 USD using my debit card, I receive in baht the money based on the TT rate and in a few days the actual withdrawal charge applied to my credit union account is less than $1,000.

 

That's how I am avoiding wire transfer fees- as well as the previous Bangkok Bank NY charge and Bangkok Bank Thailand charge when I was directly depositing into Bangkok Bank....

 

I used the income method for my extension of stay renewal earlier this year- until IMM specifically announces their requirements for renewal based on income, I will use the 800K method next year.

 

SS transfers my money in the correct format.  Seems easier to call Bangkok Bank and ask for the correct department in NYC or get the information here than change banks.  There are long threads about on Thai Visa.

[Thaidream]

14 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

now what the current rules are, but where is it stated by immigration that after Jan 1st they will continue to accept letters (in the old format) that do not confirm the embassy has validated the income?

I just reread both the British Embassy announcement and the US Embassy announcement= they clearly state that the letters issued in 2018- will be accepted by Thai Imm  for 6 months. Why do you think BE is still issuing their letters until 12 December and the US Embassy will continue  until 31 December 2018-  if Thai Imm won't accept them  for 6 months and into 2019.  Such deceit would cause chaos for  scores of people and would cause an outcry especially since we are paying a fee for the letters. Both Embassies have obviously confirmed  they will be accepted and the US letter indicates they have spoken to the Immigration Commissioner and his staff directly.

 

 

[garyk]

28 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Many do not have the money which to me is a self evaluation.

Others will justify it by telling themselves the bank will steal their money.

Both rather sad scenarios.

 

I think many have the 65K it would take to retire here with no problem. I think the problem is coming up with 800K at the drop of a hat. Most folks don't have that.

The rules have changed and it is leaving many in a tough spot. I can sympathize with them. 

Personally I think there should be a 65K cut and dried rule. If you make that every month and can prove it then great.

I also think TI does not want that and wants the 800K place in a holding account. I hope I am wrong.

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, nchuckle said:

Firstly,having 800k sitting in a low interest account is an appalling investment and secondly having a sufficiently high income enables you to spend and support yourself in the country to the advantage of the Thai economy. My capital is tied up in investment property and stocks which gives me an income over 4 x the required minimum. Economics not your strong suit I guess?

The difference between an appalling investment of 25 grand and a wonderful investment is a few hundred dollars a year.  Lets stay real here.  

Edited October 27, 2018 by marcusarelus

[HHTel]

One option to avoid holding a lump sum in Thai baht is to keep in a Foreign Currency account.  That way your cash will be in US dollars or GBP which you can draw from when the exchange rate is favourable.