Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[JLCrab]

17 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

If immigration want to see the money going into a Thai bank it would mean transfering at least 65k or 40k baht into the country from your bank in the US.

But there would have to be some way to prove that this was 'new' money every month and not just a revolving door account where you deposit - withdraw and then re-deposit the same money month after month.

 

I could wire via SWIFT US$2100 from my US bank to Kasikorn. Withdraw from Kasikorn. Deposit in Bangkok Bank and wire via SWIFT back to the US bank for less than US$100 per month.

Edited October 30, 2018 by JLCrab

[smedly]

Thai Immigration need to be very clear about what it is they want to see regarding income, some incomes could be yearly or every 6/3/1 month, if I transfer 6k sterling here every 6 months then that would be equal to 12k per year or 1k per month which would then need to be supplemented with a bank balance of about 400k baht in combination to reach the magic 800k baht as it is now.

 

The problem is that they need to clarify this right across the country in every office so that everyone knows exactly were they stand. It is too late if your extension renewal application is rejected 2 weeks before the old one expires - it needs to be black and white with no grey……………….gray equals potential for bribes and extortion   

[Mike Teavee]

11 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

But there would have to be some way to prove that this was 'new' money every month and not just a revolving door account where you deposit - withdraw and then re-deposit the same money month after month.

I doubt they would care as long as they see 65/40k going into the account each month (or however they decide is appropriate), but if they ever did care / realise it was happening, I would think that it's more likely they would close down the income route altogether before getting involved in reviewing documents provided from overseas.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Mike Teavee

[ubonjoe]

21 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

US embassy says, "approved Thailand to participate in the International Direct Deposit (IDD) program. This will make proof of income easier."

I was doing a search on the SSA website trying find out about setting it up when approved for Thailand.

I came across this bit of interesting info on this page. https://www.ssa.gov/deposit/GIS/data/Reports/ALLCTRYWEB.htm

 

I assume the 6,775 done are via Bangkok Bank in New York. 

[ubonjoe]

12 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

But there would have to be some way to prove that this was 'new' money every month and not just a revolving door account where you deposit - withdraw and then re-deposit the same money month after month.

I am sure they would want to see that it is transferred from abroad. That would make it an expensive and difficult workaround to do.

[JLCrab]

That's the rub: Unless you can show bona fide meaning primarily US government source of the monthly funds, they may indeed shut it down.

 

2 swift transfers for less than $100 per month is easily doable without having to prove that it is 'new' money from somewhere. Until and unless IMM says exactly what they want to see I'm only considering 800K in the bank or Thailand Elite for the next year's extension.

Edited October 30, 2018 by JLCrab

[moontang]

I got this at CIMB, yesterday. A US Dollar account with a 12 month fixed at 2.0%..

Not much different than the better 12 month CDs in the US..and no consulate ream...and that option is soon ending.

[sawadeeken]

20 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

But there would have to be some way to prove that this was 'new' money every month and not just a revolving door account where you deposit - withdraw and then re-deposit the same money month after month.

 

I could wire via SWIFT US$2100 from my US bank to Kasikorn. Withdraw from Kasikorn. Deposit in Bangkok Bank and wire via SWIFT back to the US bank for less than US$100 per month.

BUT...... Yhat is $1200 per year Expense......... Does it proove to be worth it?

[Peterw42]

49 minutes ago, Pib said:

When taking a look at the US and UK Embassies statements (quoted below), both statements are in sync stating that "if you have a Bt65K monthly deposit going into a Thai bank" you will no longer need an embassy letter.  

In both cases they appear to be throw away comments, The BE says (in other statements) that you have "always" been able to present bank statements, we all know that was never the case, and as he US site says.

 

"Applicants should refer to the above-referenced (immigration) websites for specifics regarding the timing and conditions associated with these deposits."

 

Until immigration says how and when, its just passing the buck.

 

[JLCrab]

5 minutes ago, sawadeeken said:

UT...... Yhat is $1200 per year Expense......... Does it proove to be worth it?

If you actually have US$ 24,000 per year to transfer maybe not. If you only have US$10,000 per year, then YES.

[fforest1]

19 minutes ago, smedly said:

Thai Immigration need to be very clear about what it is they want to see regarding income, some incomes could be yearly or every 6/3/1 month, if I transfer 6k sterling here every 6 months then that would be equal to 12k per year or 1k per month which would then need to be supplemented with a bank balance of about 400k baht in combination to reach the magic 800k baht as it is now.

 

The problem is that they need to clarify this right across the country in every office so that everyone knows exactly were they stand. It is too late if your extension renewal application is rejected 2 weeks before the old one expires - it needs to be black and white with no grey……………….gray equals potential for bribes and extortion   

.gray equals potential for bribes and extortion......

Hey thats a national sport..

[Pattaya46]

22 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I am sure they would want to see that it is transferred from abroad.

That would make it an expensive and difficult workaround to do.

That would mostly mean a change of law (Police Order)

and would bring serious trouble on all those who live from Thai investment. 

[anon2736434]

Therein lies the problem for me, I have one month left before my ext, for an O type visa, not enough time to seed the 400k in a bank account before it expires. Nice of them to just change the rules without any notice. So if I go get a letter from the embassy for an income statement will immigration accept it ? or will it be just money wasted if rejected. My only other option is to go out and get an ME o-visa. But personally I have been planning to relocate back home recently and for me that seems to be the best option.

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

That would mostly mean a change of law (Police Order)

and would bring serious trouble on all those who live from Thai investment.

If you were getting all your income from legal investments here you should be paying Thai taxes which could  be proven by a tax return.

No problem to show investments as long as you are not working to earn the money. For example having rental property that is handled by an agent.

[Pattaya46]

4 minutes ago, Notagain said:

So if I go get a letter from the embassy for an income statement will immigration accept it ?

Of course yes.

Again, absolutely nothing changed in Thai Immigration rules.

[Pattaya46]

7 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

If you were getting all your income from legal investments here you should be paying Thai taxes which could  be proven by a tax return.

There are no taxes on capital gain made on stock exchange.

There are taxes on dividends, but deduced automatically before they are paid to you.

 

But yes, Thai banks documents of such incomes certainly would be no problem for extensions. (A lot easier to verify than foreign incomes )

Edited October 30, 2018 by Pattaya46

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, Notagain said:

Therein lies the problem for me, I have one month left before my ext, for an O type visa, not enough time to seed the 400k in a bank account before it expires. Nice of them to just change the rules without any notice. So if I go get a letter from the embassy for an income statement will immigration accept it ? or will it be just money wasted if rejected. My only other option is to go out and get an ME o-visa. But personally I have been planning to relocate back home recently and for me that seems to be the best option.

At this time immigration is still accepting proof of income done at an embassy. The embassy has stated they will still be doing them until the first of January. So no problem for you.

[sawadeeken]

  25 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I am sure they would want to see that it is transferred from abroad.

That would make it an expensive and difficult workaround to do.

3 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

That would mostly mean a change of law (Police Order)

and would bring serious trouble on all those who live from Thai investment. 

Fortunately I am not 'Stuck' in Thailand......... After next Sep. 3 when my Retirement Visa Expires, I am making my plans to go with 'Tourist Visa" for 2 months and OUT for 2 months and not accumulate more than 6 months per year......... The money I SAVE I will donate to the 'Childrens Foundation' and let Thailand HURT for a while (until this Military dictatorship feels some pain)............

[anon2736434]

3 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Again, absolutely nothing changed in Thai Immigration rules.

After 10 years of dealing with immigration the fact is rules are broken every day there, It just takes money to fix them. I have been offered the under the table visa before and many people buy them with no documents necessary. But i wont play that game when I am able to meet the requirements legally. And if you think there isnt a chance of someone turning down my embassy letter you are a fool.

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

There are no taxes on capital gain made on stock exchange.

There are taxes on dividends, but deduced automatically before they are paid to you.

You could show proof of your income from stocks. And a tax return for any taxes paid on dividends.

[Pib]

I was doing a search on the SSA website trying find out about setting it up when approved for Thailand.
I came across this bit of interesting info on this page. https://www.ssa.gov/deposit/GIS/data/Reports/ALLCTRYWEB.htm


 
I assume the 6,775 done are via Bangkok Bank in New York. 

It just means people that have a "Thailand address on file" with SSA are having their payment sent to one of many U.S. banks primarily using the ACH system...one of which is via/thru the Bangkok Bank "New York" branch which is a US licensed bank.

Now there are more people than 7001 in Thailand receiving SS payments but they do not have a Thailand address on file with SSA which you are suppose to have if living in Thailand but many people never notify SSA of that and instead retain their US address on file with SSA.

[Peterw42]

1 hour ago, JLCrab said:

But there would have to be some way to prove that this was 'new' money every month and not just a revolving door account where you deposit - withdraw and then re-deposit the same money month after month.

 

I could wire via SWIFT US$2100 from my US bank to Kasikorn. Withdraw from Kasikorn. Deposit in Bangkok Bank and wire via SWIFT back to the US bank for less than US$100 per month.

There are less expensive ways of doing it, banks like citibank do free international transfers between citibank accounts. A US dollar account in singapore and a US dollar account in Thailand (acceptable to immigration), no exchange losses and free transfers. In theory you could send money back and forward for free.

[JackThompson]

14 minutes ago, Notagain said:

After 10 years of dealing with immigration the fact is rules are broken every day there, It just takes money to fix them. I have been offered the under the table visa before and many people buy them with no documents necessary. But i wont play that game when I am able to meet the requirements legally. And if you think there isnt a chance of someone turning down my embassy letter you are a fool.

Agree in general - to force people to agents - but we have no reports of rejected income-letters, only reports (CM, in particular - sporadically elsewhere) to show some backup-info, for which foreign-based documents (Social Security, Pensions, etc) have been accepted.

Edited October 30, 2018 by JackThompson

[JackThompson]

 

29 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

35 minutes ago, sawadeeken said:

UT...... Yhat is $1200 per year Expense......... Does it proove to be worth it?

If you actually have US$ 24,000 per year to transfer maybe not. If you only have US$10,000 per year, then YES.

Example:  Xfer 65K+ Baht/mo.  Spend what you need, withdrawing the "extra" in cash.  Every 3 or 4 mo, remit the extra back to the point of origin - so 3 or 4 xfer-fees per-year outgoing, back to the foreign source account. 

 

Also, could use a cheaper option than SWIFT to remit (dee money? - I haven't tried it), and more will appear rapidly if this becomes the new standard for extensions based on income.

Alternatively, if an "average amount transferred per-year" is permitted in lieu of "per-mo" xfers (hopefully), then even simpler and less in lost incoming xfer-fees.

[Thaidream]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

am concerned that the Embassy is relying on statements mad to them by higher level central Imm Bureau staff months ago that have never been translated into action. They need to know that what they state on the Embassy website re use of income method without Embassy letter is in fact not currently the case. Because it may need follow up from the Embassy to Imm to make that happen

I have sent an email to [email protected] asking them to be proactive and follow up on what they have promised in their  PDfs sent out.  I would recommend others  also send emails with explanations on their experiences with Thai Imm.

 

I am sure Chaengwattana has the word  and some of the other major centers but the smaller places- doubt it.  Thai Imm wants the letter- and the Embassy has confirmed it is good for 6 months from date.    IMO-  it is likely Thai Imm sees no hurry to make any change or do anything for about 6 months.  Their thinking is  the letters will be issued  until 31 Dec 2018 and no other Embassy has stated they are going to stop the letters-except UK/US= so no rush.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Thaidream

[anon2736434]

1 minute ago, JackThompson said:

to force people to agents

Why use an agent when you can just go in to immigration and take care of business, if you are going to spend money cut out the middle man.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, greenbottle555 said:

Heck, I just learned that work visas and permits are being turned down, you can't even work here even if a Thai company wants you to.

You learned this where/how?

[JLCrab]

5 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

There are less expensive ways of doing it

SHHHHHH!

[mogandave]

That may be for US government programs such as military or Social Sec. but what about miscellaneous sources of income such as your savings or investment income or your monthly share from your ownership in a vegan juice bar by the beach.

Assuming the vegan juice bar keeps books and pays taxes proving income should not be difficult.

Same with banks and brokerage accounts, pretty easy to download statements.

[ubonjoe]

11 minutes ago, Pib said:

It just means people that have a "Thailand address on file" with SSA are having their payment sent to one of many U.S. banks primarily using the ACH system...one of which is via/thru the Bangkok Bank "New York" branch which is a US licensed bank.

How did you come to that conclusion.

I think they are only using records of the transfers done and Bangkok Bank New York would be coded as being a branch of a Thai bank.

I think it could well be a correct number of those using Bangkok Bank.