Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[ubonjoe]

I have gone back a few pages and removed several  posts for various reasons. Also now a new inflammatory off topic post.

As I have posted several times before there will be no further notice made when posts are removed. If your post disappears you can assume you stepped over the line.

[JLCrab]

13 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I really don't care  if you believe me or not and I'm NOT kidding!!

Oh I believe you spent 4-5 minutes -- I just think that with any future non-affidavit based extension of stay based upon monthly income, the procedure will involve the IMM officer in most all cases being able to determine within around 30 seconds to one minute what income is being claimed or it ain't gonna happen.

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, JLCrab said:

with any future non-affidavit based extension of stay based upon monthly income, the procedure will involve the IMM officer in most all cases being able to determine within around 30 seconds to one minute what income is being claimed or it ain't gonna happen.

Completely agree!

[JLCrab]

5 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

6 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

with any future non-affidavit based extension of stay based upon monthly income, the procedure will involve the IMM officer in most all cases being able to determine within around 30 seconds to one minute what income is being claimed or it ain't gonna happen.

Completely agree!

OK.

[HHTel]

1 hour ago, garyk said:

Thailand is in a very good position, all they needed to do was figure a way to insure the 800K to be seeded in a Thai bank. The embassy letter was there ticket to a financial wind fall.

Your 'financial windfall' is based upon the embassies not issuing income letters.  In fact these letters are quite small in proportion.  The British Embassy issued only 3,000 per year.  I don't know the figures for the US and Australian.  Of those, some will not have the ability to deposit a lump sum or show an income.  If they can't meet those requirements then they may leave the country,  Those that deposit 800,000 in the bank are effectively putting their annual income into the bank in one go where previously they would have transferred money when necessary.

The end result is that those that leave is a net outflow of cash, those that prove income or deposit 800,000 in the bank doesn't affect the inflow/outflow of cash at all.  Annually that remains the same.

This 'new procedure' if it's verified by Thai immigration will cause a loss of cash into the country.

 

You should also take into account with your figures that a majority of expats here are working.  Japan, India and China for example, have no retirees in Thailand.  The same goes for Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam etc etc.

 

There is no windfall.

[moontang]

Many Japanese retirees here, many were here much before farang.  

[HHTel]

8 minutes ago, moontang said:

Many Japanese retirees here, many were here much before farang.  

I take it back regarding the Japanese but they are a little different to the retirees being discussed.

 

Quote

Northern Thailand is a popular retirement destination, with over 1,500 Japanese registered as residents there. In most cases, they plan to return to Japan after their adventure ends.

“I don’t want to be a trouble to the Thai people, so I plan to go back to Japan eventually,” one 76-year-old Japanese man said.

 

But in some cases, they overstay their visas after exhausting their savings and have no money to go back. In other cases, they can’t go back because of debt, work and relationship problems.

 

Thailand is said to be lax on immigration, which lures Japanese with complicated backgrounds. But since they tend to remain reclusive, it makes it difficult to find out where they live and how they are doing.

 

According to the consulate in Chiang Mai, about 20 people have died in each of the past three years, reflecting the aging Japanese population there. About 15 had died as of the end of April.

 

Some die alone and aren’t discovered until several days later. When their relatives in Japan are contacted, many refuse to claim the body, saying they “don’t want to have anything to do with it.”

Source: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/05/22/national/social-issues/thailand-popular-japanese-retirees-many-end-dying-alone/#.W900KdUzZEY

[moontang]

4 minutes ago, HHTel said:

I take it back regarding the Japanese but they are a little different to the retirees being discussed.

 

Source: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/05/22/national/social-issues/thailand-popular-japanese-retirees-many-end-dying-alone/#.W900KdUzZEY

One difference is that Immigration catered to them for years, offering special visa sessions on Saturdays to the Japanese Club or whatever it is called in CM.  The article just about describes exactly how the Japanese guy was I met in line one morning at 4 am in CM.  Complete nice guy, but definitely on the reclusive side, lived in a semi remote area if CM Province.

[Pib]

14 hours ago, Duaned said:

What if every month on the 1st or 2nd you go down to like Bangkok Bank and do a cash advance with your debit card with a Bank in America for like 100,000 THB and deposit it in Bangkok Bank is that legit? It shows you have over 65000 THB monthly income.

If it turns out they want to see it came from outside Thailand it would not be coded as an "international" receipt of money.   

 

When you go into a bank branch to do a counter withdrawal and also instruct them to deposit the money into your account, well, the bank teller will really do "two" transactions. 

 

First transaction is the cash advance using the debit/credit card...it's handled as a purchase transaction although you are getting cash.   OK, that transaction is complete and the money is not deposited to your account yet....it's temporarily setting in holding status waiting to be deposited into your account...it has not been put in your bank account yet.   That cash advance transaction will not appear anywhere in your Thai bank account simply because no transaction directly related to your bank account has occurred yet as you were just using your foreign debit/credit card to get money.

 

Now, on to the second transaction.  The bank rep now completes a deposit transaction....you sign a deposit slip just like you had walked into the branch carrying a bag of money for deposit.  The cash advance is moved from it's holding status into your bank account.....only that deposit will appear on your Thai bank passbook along with a code identifying it as a originally deposit.    

 

For example a few months ago I did a Bt150K cash advance/counter withdrawal with my US debit card at a Krungsri branch.  See below....the DB code just means a deposit was made...same code used for anyone walking into the branch to make a deposit.   

 

I use to do cash advances at Bangkok Bank also up to about 2 years ago, but I switched to a Krungsri branch that was a lot closer (and more friendly).  But Bangkok Bank does the same two step process....first the cash advance transaction....it's put into a floating/hold status for a few minutes...then they do the deposit transaction which takes it out of hold and deposits it to  your account just like an ordinary transaction. Can't remember the exact code appearing but it was just some regular code....not the Bangkok Bank "FTT" code signifying an international transfer.

 

Now I do remember one poster who said he got his cash advance coded as an international transaction, but I'm not believing it until I see a snapshot of his passbook.  Buy hey, maybe his branch did something special for him.  TIT.    It's just I'm not believing it until I see a snapshot of the transaction and simply because of my personal experience of doing cash advances at Bangkok Bank and Krungsri Bank.

 

  

[Thaidream]

32 minutes ago, Pib said:

Now I do remember one poster who said he got his cash advance coded as an international transaction, but I'm not believing it until I see a snapshot of his passbook.  Buy hey, maybe his branch did something special for him.  TIT.    It's just I'm not believing it until I see a snapshot of the transaction and simply because of my personal experience of doing cash advances at Bangkok Bank and Krungsri Bank.

Your funds originated from abroad- when I do  the same from an ATM- I get a slip back that shows the last 4 digits of my ATM card and it is obvious it was from overseas.  Doesn't the  original transaction  show much the same when you do it in a bank and doesn't the bank give a similar receipt.?  

 

I can understand why Thai Imm might want to see a bankbook at some point but can't understand why  a person has to do a transfer when one can get the money immediately from the ATM or in bank method and prove it comes from overseas.

[JLCrab]

14 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

why  a person has to do a transfer when one can get the money immediately from the ATM or in bank method and prove it comes from overseas.

Because with the ATM slips the IMM officer then has to add up 12 months worth of sometimes unreadable ATM slips rather than a one-time per month transfer from a US bank via SWIFT to a Thai bank which then appears as 65,000 baht FTT in the passbook

[Pib]

23 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Your funds originated from abroad- when I do  the same from an ATM- I get a slip back that shows the last 4 digits of my ATM card and it is obvious it was from overseas.  Doesn't the  original transaction  show much the same when you do it in a bank and doesn't the bank give a similar receipt.?  

 

I can understand why Thai Imm might want to see a bankbook at some point but can't understand why  a person has to do a transfer when one can get the money immediately from the ATM or in bank method and prove it comes from overseas.

I expect the immigration officer will have no interest in spending time and listening to your story that the faded ATM slip is proof the deposit reflected in your passbook (which is coded as an ordinary deposit) is money your transferred into Thailand via electronic means.   But hey, maybe they will....we will not know until possibly in the future....once they possibly put out guidance....once X-amount of folks give it an actual try.

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, Pib said:

expect the immigration officer will have no interest in spending time and listening to your story that the faded ATM slip is proof the deposit reflected in your passbook (which is coded as an ordinary deposit) is money your transferred into Thailand via electronic means.   But hey, maybe they will....we will not know until possibly in the future....once they possibly put out guidance....once X-amount of folks give it an actual try.

You are probably right but there is no requirement in the Immigration Act that says the  money has to originate from overseas.  In fact- years ago- I brought  the money in by cash and travelers checks  and deposited in my Thai Bank Account- when I did my marriage extension- IO didn't  even blink.  Time will tell.

[JLCrab]

7 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

there is no requirement in the Immigration Act that says the  money has to originate from overseas.

The last version of the US Embassy - Bangkok Income affidavit said:

 

I also affirm that I receive a monthly income of $____________________ from sources in the United States

 

So you are saying maybe that it really didn't have to say that?

 

 

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, JLCrab said:

So you are saying maybe that it really didn't have to say that?

That's what I am saying.  I believe the Immigration act says - 'Evidence of Income"

[JLCrab]

4 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

7 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

So you are saying maybe that it really didn't have to say that?

That's what I am saying.  I believe the Immigration act says - 'Evidence of Income"

Yes but there may be published Ministerial regulation, Directives and other promulgation that do say that.

[Thaidream]

2 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Yes but there may be published Ministerial regulation, Directives and other promulgation that do say that.

Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month: or (4) On the filing date, the applicant must have funds deposited in a bank in Thailand of no less than Baht 800,000 for the past three months. For the first year only, the applicant must have proof of a deposit account in which said amount of funds has been maintained for no less than 60 days prior to the filing da

 

I pulled the above from the Police Order of 2014-which is the most current and that is what is used by the Immigration Department- If one is using the income stream- it clearly  says 'evidence'- nothing about  coming from overseas or even in a Thai Bank.

[ubonjoe]

23 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

That's what I am saying.  I believe the Immigration act says - 'Evidence of Income"

The immigration act does not have any of the requirements to apply for any extension of stay in it.

The police orders state the requirements for them.

[JLCrab]

I am well-aware of the 2014 Police Order. November 2, 2018, my first SWIFT transfer from my US bank to my Bangkok Bank passbook account went trough where 65,000 baht is noted as an FTT transaction. That is what I am going to do for the next foreseeable months until more becomes clear. If it saves me having to deposit 800K baht in a Thai account or some other less desirable option to get a one-year extension of stay, then the SWIFT fee is well worth it.

 

What you or anyone else chooses to do: Up-To-You.

 

Edited November 3, 2018 by JLCrab

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

The immigration act does not have any of the requirements to apply for any extension of stay in it.

The police orders state the requirements for them.

Of course you're correct. Thanks for the correction!

[Pib]

You are probably right but there is no requirement in the Immigration Act that says the  money has to originate from overseas.  In fact- years ago- I brought  the money in by cash and travelers checks  and deposited in my Thai Bank Account- when I did my marriage extension- IO didn't  even blink.  Time will tell.

Yeah...but I'm assuming you were using the 400K deposit method where they don't carry where the money came from.

Or, if using the income method it was the embassy income letter that carried all the weight...not the deposits.

[Thaidream]

4 minutes ago, Pib said:

Yeah...but I'm assuming you were using the 400K deposit method where they don't carry where the money came from.

Or, if using the income method it was the embassy income letter that carried all the weight...not the deposits.

I have done  the extension every way possible in the past- marriage and retirement- combination and full amount- Never transferred money-  they never cared- show either the letter of the bank book or both.   Hope it stays that way- as the Police order indicates it is acceptable- and in that way can accommodate everyone...in every situation.  Time will tell.

[HAL9000]

On 11/2/2018 at 1:42 PM, JLCrab said:

Just to note, this is from my online Bangkok Bank account with a test transfer from USA of about $100:

31 Oct 2018 11:48    International Transfer  3,145.12 (baht)

 

The passbook entry has the code: FTT

 

  

Interesting. I just did my first test transfer yesterday into Kasikorn bank. It has the code, "TRN", which I suppose means transfer, but it is also the same code as when I transferred from my other Thai account.

[mogandave]

Interesting. I just did my first test transfer yesterday into Kasikorn bank. It has the code, "TRN", which I suppose means transfer, but it is also the same code as when I transferred from my other Thai account.

Did you use TransferWise?

[Maestro]

That's what he said he would do.

 

 

[mogandave]

That's what he said he would do.
 
 

Yeah, TW is recorded as a domestic transfer...

[newatthis]

1 hour ago, mogandave said:

 

 

Yeah, TW is recorded as a domestic transfer...

 

 

Same in the SCB bank because it is, I guess. I transfer money into their Aussie account. They transfer money out of their Thai account into my SCB account. So as far as SCB are concerned, it's just a domestic transfer.

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, mogandave said:

 

 

Yeah, TW is recorded as a domestic transfer...

 

 

 

39 minutes ago, newatthis said:

Same in the SCB bank because it is, I guess. I transfer money into their Aussie account. They transfer money out of their Thai account into my SCB account. So as far as SCB are concerned, it's just a domestic transfer.

Definitely shows as a Foreign Telegraph Transfer (FTT) in a Bangkok bank passbook.

Edited November 4, 2018 by Tanoshi

[newatthis]

16 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

 

Definitely shows as a Foreign Telegraph Transfer (FTT) in a Bangkok bank passbook.

Sorry, don't know about the passbook. I'm referring to online/internet statements and their codes for the SCB.

[Tanoshi]

15 minutes ago, newatthis said:

Sorry, don't know about the passbook. I'm referring to online/internet statements and their codes for the SCB.

So what's your concern with statements and codes.

 

There is no requirement that the income came from a foreign source, other than when you do a conversion to a Non Imm.