Pheu Thai prepares for worst-case scenario

[JAG]

On 10/30/2018 at 6:10 PM, JemJem said:

Hey Phue Thai top-level folks, how about starting by cutting off all ties with, or at least by distancing yourselves and the party as much as possible from Thaksin as soon as possible ? Yeah, right, as if that's going to happen !

 

Prayut is no angel, but we have to remember that the situation now is mostly the fault of Thaksin, who caused so much division in Thai society. Many folks in the forum seem to have forgotten about how corrupt he was, or about the human rights abuses he was responsible for.

Probably because they fade into insignificance compared to "no angel", "the Watchman"and their mates...

[zzaa09]

9 minutes ago, JAG said:

Probably because they fade into insignificance compared to "no angel", "the Watchman"and their mates...

Yeah - overwhelmingly so. 

 

For the sake of argument and apologies, we all might agree to cast them all in the same boat. 

Set the whole bladdy lot adrift. 

 

Time to start anew, without associations from any of the traditional scallywags and charlatans. 

[Burma Bill]

On 10/29/2018 at 11:32 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

They all work for a criminal and they take orders from a criminal. Put them in jail, problem solved.

Wrong- there opposition is also criminal so put THEM in jail - problem solved for the vast majority of PT supporters throughout Thailand.

[zzaa09]

2 hours ago, Burma Bill said:

Wrong- there opposition is also criminal so put THEM in jail - problem solved for the vast majority of PT supporters throughout Thailand.

.....I might easily guess that a greater percentage of loyal PT types have abandoned the once influential association for other political bandwagons - 

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, Burma Bill said:

Wrong- there opposition is also criminal so put THEM in jail - problem solved for the vast majority of PT supporters throughout Thailand.

Please list the names of the convicted criminals of the "opposition".

 

Personally I think all convicted criminals should go to jail.

It seems you want that the red mob decides who is a criminal and who not. Interesting idea...

 

[jayboy]

On 10/29/2018 at 11:32 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

They all work for a criminal and they take orders from a criminal. Put them in jail, problem solved.

That's no way to describe Prayuth.In fact, it is completely unfair.OK, so he did seize power illegally and conspire with fascists like Suthep in the process.OK, so Thailand has seen a savage onslaught on human rights and civil society during his tenure.OK, so no significant progress has been made in tackling corruption.OK, so the military has no accountability for its many errors etc etc.Still the economy is puffing along nicely and he should get credit for that, even though he hasn't got the faintest idea about managing a modern economy.OK, so almost all Thais are keen to see the back of him and his sordid associates.

 

But it is going much too far to call him a criminal and you should retract that slur immediately.

[Thian]

On 10/29/2018 at 11:32 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

They all work for a criminal and they take orders from a criminal. Put them in jail, problem solved.

Are the ones from the huge rice-scam already in jail? I mean the ones responsible for the empty warehouses and trucks full of rice from cambodia so they could get a higher price?

[stud858]

Out of all of it, the biggest crime of all. The culling of democracy. 

What's left is a mess for awhile until finally a well organised system will evolve. It may take more years than I'm alive. Heres hoping for peace at least over the next while. 

 

[Thian]

33 minutes ago, stud858 said:

Out of all of it, the biggest crime of all. The culling of democracy. 

What's left is a mess for awhile until finally a well organised system will evolve. It may take more years than I'm alive. Heres hoping for peace at least over the next while. 

 

Another one who doesn't understand it at all and would prefer to have BKK on fire in a civil war....And of course he thinks that war wouldn't have effected him there on the farm in the sticks..

[sjaak327]

Please list the names of the convicted criminals of the "opposition".
 
Personally I think all convicted criminals should go to jail.
It seems you want that the red mob decides who is a criminal and who not. Interesting idea...
 

He never said convicted criminals. Since the junta gave themselves amnesty, they cannot possibly be convicted. The evidence that they are indeed criminal is overwhelming...

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[candide]

On 11/5/2018 at 1:22 PM, Thian said:

Are the ones from the huge rice-scam already in jail? I mean the ones responsible for the empty warehouses and trucks full of rice from cambodia so they could get a higher price?

That's a good question. How is it that despite the Junta, the yellow NACC and the yellow judiciary, very few people have been convicted in this exemplary and highly symbolic case of "massive corruption"?

It could not be the Junta covering it up, could it? There must be another explanation!

[Thian]

6 minutes ago, candide said:

That's a good question. How is it that despite the Junta, the yellow NACC and the yellow judiciary, very few people have been convicted in this exemplary and highly symbolic case of "massive corruption"?

It could not be the Junta covering it up, could it? There must be another explanation!

I don't know, the popcorn shooter also just got convicted this week....4 years after it happened...so maybe it's still in the pipeline?

[tomta]

On 10/29/2018 at 12:49 PM, robblok said:

Thaksin his arrogance finally got him. So much for the image of a highly inteligent Thaksin.. i think he and the junta leader are about the same. Prayut his downfall is his anger and his inability to use the media well, Thaksin his downfall is his arrogance. His amnesty was the previous time he damaged the party and let his personal desires go before the good of the party. 

Exactly how many parties have PT or TRT banned? How many coups have they staged? How many elections have they sabotaged? How many amnesty bills did they actually enact in Parliament?

 

Of course, Thaksin influences PT. He influences the junta too, given that they've picked up so many of his program. This notion that a party should not be influenced by outsiders is absurd. Any political party worth its salt picks up ideas from everywhere it can.

[tomta]

10 minutes ago, Thian said:

I don't know, the popcorn shooter also just got convicted this week....4 years after it happened...so maybe it's still in the pipeline?

A disposable minion. The name of the PDRC chief guard who hired him  and supplied him with the gun is known as are the identities of other PDRC gun carriers at this event. I suppose it is possible that the Supreme Court have some concern for their  otherwise legally unassailable reputations and that the minions might have a moment of anxiety. I doubt it though.

 

I think we can be sure that the ultimate directors and sponsors of the operation have little to worry about.

[robblok]

11 minutes ago, tomta said:

Exactly how many parties have PT or TRT banned? How many coups have they staged? How many elections have they sabotaged? How many amnesty bills did they actually enact in Parliament?

 

Of course, Thaksin influences PT. He influences the junta too, given that they've picked up so many of his program. This notion that a party should not be influenced by outsiders is absurd. Any political party worth its salt picks up ideas from everywhere it can.

Who cares, how many times have the junta been caught stealing.. while PTP MP's directly under YL stole 30 billion with fake G2G deals... wow the  price of the subs in fake G2G deals.. and guess what Thaksin his friends are connected too.  So you can have an utterly corrupt guy who wants amnesties and would have gotten them if not for the brave Thai people standing up against this.

 

As for the influence.. that is not the influence we are talking about. People who lead parties have influence and with that influence can make laws ect. Now normal leaders have their assets registered so people can see if there is some sort of conflict of interest. Now we got Thaksin who can do all that but because he is doing it illegally is not subjected to any of those checks. That is a real bad thing as he is known for his corruption and this way is able to hide his interests while influencing decisions. (guess your ok with that because.. he is your hero)

 

Anyway unlike you I don't have to defend any side, i can see them both as rotten to the core and see them both as bad choices for the country. 

[robblok]

32 minutes ago, candide said:

That's a good question. How is it that despite the Junta, the yellow NACC and the yellow judiciary, very few people have been convicted in this exemplary and highly symbolic case of "massive corruption"?

It could not be the Junta covering it up, could it? There must be another explanation!

Actually two of the PTP MP's who were in power at the time and responsible for the 30 billion fake G2G deals.. are in jail for over 20 years.. I would say... good catch.. the two main people caught. Now i don't know what happened to the small fry.. but i do know that instigators are caught. 

 

Fun that these people were working with YL and YL still pretends she did not know about this massive corruption.

[tomta]

On 10/30/2018 at 10:10 PM, JemJem said:

Hey Phue Thai top-level folks, how about starting by cutting off all ties with, or at least by distancing yourselves and the party as much as possible from Thaksin as soon as possible ? Yeah, right, as if that's going to happen !

 

Prayut is no angel, but we have to remember that the situation now is mostly the fault of Thaksin, who caused so much division in Thai society. Many folks in the forum seem to have forgotten about how corrupt he was, or about the human rights abuses he was responsible for.

Yes, Thaksin's fault entirely. All that continual winning of elections is unbearably rude and provocative to those who keep losing elections.  Winning elections and enacting declared policies. So divisive.

[tomta]

16 minutes ago, robblok said:

guess your ok with that because.. he is your hero)

Carry on, Robblok. The same old tired rejoinder.

 

Margaret Thatcher, Donald Trump, Thaksin Shinawatra. All people I dislike. But I would never have supported a coup against any of them.

[tomta]

On 10/31/2018 at 1:56 PM, Eric Loh said:

All countries that subscribed to democracy have division and polarization. That's the beauty of democracy allowing dissenting parties to speak out their grievances and even take to the streets and subsequently to the ballot boxes. Why is coup necessary? Please enlighten me.   

Exactly right, Eric.  And an insistence on unity, whether through slavish and real devotion or through enforced cowering obedience, is the hallmark of fascism. Or through the invocation of external threats as we saw with the Preah Viharn,/ Phra Viharn episode assiduously promoted by the PDRC.

[tomta]

35 minutes ago, robblok said:

Actually two of the PTP MP's who were in power at the time and responsible for the 30 billion fake G2G deals.. are in jail for over 20 years.. I would say... good catch.. the two main people caught. Now i don't know what happened to the small fry.. but i do know that instigators are caught. 

 

Fun that these people were working with YL and YL still pretends she did not know about this massive corruption.

The junta allowed her  to escape. Should they be charged with mere negligence or with corruption? Please don't tell me that her escape was a fiendishly clever plan conducted by her criminal brother.

 

Oh, I forget, they  corruptly enacted an amnesty that protects them against any charges. Is that not the supreme form of corruption. You go on and on about how both sides should be convicted but you must know that one side has absolute protection from the consequences of their criminal actions

[zzaa09]

1 hour ago, tomta said:

The junta allowed her  to escape. Should they be charged with mere negligence or with corruption? Please don't tell me that her escape was a fiendishly clever plan conducted by her criminal brother.

 

Oh, I forget, they  corruptly enacted an amnesty that protects them against any charges. Is that not the supreme form of corruption. You go on and on about how both sides should be convicted but you must know that one side has absolute protection from the consequences of their criminal actions

Many do, conveniently, forget or dismiss things to justify their seemingly righteous cause and effect. 

Granted, should be understood that all circles involved have a seamy corrupt side to varying degrees. 

It's the manner in which traditional political presence handle supposed crisis/issues that should be questioned and under scrutiny - 

 

Your comment of "absolute protection" probably goes unnoticed as the principle player with the Thai theatre.

[robblok]

16 hours ago, tomta said:

Carry on, Robblok. The same old tired rejoinder.

 

Margaret Thatcher, Donald Trump, Thaksin Shinawatra. All people I dislike. But I would never have supported a coup against any of them.

Then why dont accept it that the guy is just as bad as the junta and deserves to get rid of just as much too. 

[robblok]

15 hours ago, tomta said:

The junta allowed her  to escape. Should they be charged with mere negligence or with corruption? Please don't tell me that her escape was a fiendishly clever plan conducted by her criminal brother.

 

Oh, I forget, they  corruptly enacted an amnesty that protects them against any charges. Is that not the supreme form of corruption. You go on and on about how both sides should be convicted but you must know that one side has absolute protection from the consequences of their criminal actions

Great.. complaints of the junta that i totally agree with. You still don't get it.. i don't like the junta.. I just don't like Thaksin too and see him for what he is as bad as they are just less powerful. Remember he said it himself democracy is not his goals. 

 

Anyway I have seen no proof of the junta helping her escape.. its plausible.

 

Nobody should have an amnesty Thaksin not the Junta not.. but just because the junta got one does not mean Thaksin should get one too. It should mean people should complain about it pressure them ect to get that amnesty gone.

 

The tired old red propaganda of they did it so Thaksin should get it too is so tiresome and leads to nothing. Neither should have an amnesty and neither should be corrupt and if they are no matter who should be in court for it and convicted.. and of course not allowed to run.

[tomta]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Then why dont accept it that the guy is just as bad as the junta and deserves to get rid of just as much too. 

He deserves to be got rid of by legal means -  impeachment or an election.

 

You support illegal means - the violent threats of a coup (and just because the coup was not actually violent does not nullify my point. All coups are based on the threat of violence. Without it they don't succeed.)

 

 

So that is where we differ. I support the rule of law. You support anything goes - including violence.

[robblok]

7 minutes ago, tomta said:

He deserves to be got rid of by legal means -  impeachment or an election.

 

You support illegal means - the violent threats of a coup (and just because the coup was not actually violent does not nullify my point. All coups are based on the threat of violence. Without it they don't succeed.)

 

 

So that is where we differ. I support the rule of law. You support anything goes - including violence.

No you don't support rule of law, because if you did you would know that its not allowed for a convicted criminal to lead a party. Not here and not in many other countries. So if you supported the law you would support Thaksin to stop leading the party. He is not allowed too. But you are of the type screw the law if it benefits Thaksin.

 

I never ever support violence, why would I, never have never will. IMHO the reds are still the more violent faction. (not saying here that all red supporters support violence)

 

I was shocked by the Trad massacre where red supporters killed kids and then on stage other red supporters cheered about the attack (they did not know there were kids among the victims). So who is supporting violence here.. not me. 

 

How we differ is easy.. i attack both sides.. you don't. Its that easy.

[tomta]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Great.. complaints of the junta that i totally agree with. You still don't get it.. i don't like the junta.. I just don't like Thaksin too and see him for what he is as bad as they are just less powerful. Remember he said it himself democracy is not his goals. 

In the interests  of accuracy, I paste the full quote as I have done several time before. Probably futile in the same way that trying to counter the idea that Thaksin won because of votebuying is. It has lodged so firmly in the unconscious of his opponents that despite its having been  proved untrue time and again it could probably only be removed by brain surgery. This one  too.  It is continually quoted in a short form which distorts it absolutely.

 

 

So here goes : “Democracy is a good and beautiful thing, but it’s not the ultimate goal as far as administering the country is concerned,” he said. “Democracy is just a tool, not our goal. The goal is to give people a good lifestyle, happiness and national progress.”  https://thethaiger.com/news/phuket/Democracy-not-goal-Thaksin

 

Personally, I regard democracy as an end in itself .But his statement seems perfectly reasonable and in keeping with democratic norms. Thaksin did not say it is not his goal. He says it is a means to an end which is the ultimate goal. There is plenty to criticize  Thaksin for without having to distort what he said.

 

By  the way, Prayuth has said that democracy is his goal - you know, the roadmap. Neither is a particularly savoury  character but one has at least some democratic credentials. 

[tomta]

12 minutes ago, robblok said:

No you don't support rule of law, because if you did you would know that its not allowed for a convicted criminal to lead a party. Not here and not in many other countries. So if you supported the law you would support Thaksin to stop leading the party. He is not allowed too. But you are of the type screw the law if it benefits Thaksin.

 

I never ever support violence, why would I, never have never will. IMHO the reds are still the more violent faction. (not saying here that all red supporters support violence)

 

I was shocked by the Trad massacre where red supporters killed kids and then on stage other red supporters cheered about the attack (they did not know there were kids among the victims). So who is supporting violence here.. not me. 

 

How we differ is easy.. i attack both sides.. you don't. Its that easy.

You supported the coup therefore you support violence.

[robblok]

18 minutes ago, tomta said:

You supported the coup therefore you support violence.

Two different things because the coups here in Thailand the last few have been without blood. I supported a coup without violence and blood. Now if you can find where i supported a bloody coup then be my guest.

 

 

[scorecard]

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

Two different things because the coups here in Thailand the last few have been without blood. I supported a coup without violence and blood. Now if you can find where i supported a bloody coup then be my guest.

 

 

Excellent point.

[robblok]

25 minutes ago, tomta said:

In the interests  of accuracy, I paste the full quote as I have done several time before. Probably futile in the same way that trying to counter the idea that Thaksin won because of votebuying is. It has lodged so firmly in the unconscious of his opponents that despite its having been  proved untrue time and again it could probably only be removed by brain surgery. This one  too.  It is continually quoted in a short form which distorts it absolutely.

 

 

So here goes : “Democracy is a good and beautiful thing, but it’s not the ultimate goal as far as administering the country is concerned,” he said. “Democracy is just a tool, not our goal. The goal is to give people a good lifestyle, happiness and national progress.”  https://thethaiger.com/news/phuket/Democracy-not-goal-Thaksin

 

Personally, I regard democracy as an end in itself .But his statement seems perfectly reasonable and in keeping with democratic norms. Thaksin did not say it is not his goal. He says it is a means to an end which is the ultimate goal. There is plenty to criticize  Thaksin for without having to distort what he said.

 

By  the way, Prayuth has said that democracy is his goal - you know, the roadmap. Neither is a particularly savoury  character but one has at least some democratic credentials. 

Good thing i don't go by Thaksin his words but actions.. and they were not democratic. (secret voting at night among other things to get his amnesty in.. changing laws between readings for his benefit). His party not voting for leaders him appointing them.. not democratic.. so his actions seem to support his non democratic views.

 

Seems Thaksin and the general want the same thing bring happiness to the people. Strange that you believe him and not the junta.. while i on the other hand don't believe either and know they both are in it for the money.

 

I din not distorted anything.. he said democracy is not his goal and has proven his anti democratic views more then once. He just does not follow the democratic principle. If he was democratic his party would have votes for leaders like the democrats.. nothing like that he appoints.. where is the democracy in that.. anyway have fun defending this convicted criminal.