Australia joins the UK and USA with withdrawal of income verification

[fforest1]

26 minutes ago, The Truth said:

Thailand has been a haven for low income foreigners for decades and now, it seems, it's had enough and decided it's time to thin the herd. A lot of these people who've been gaming the system get sick and place an unfair burden on the state hospitals who generally won't turn them away.

Guys with a decent income can afford insurance or at least they can put away a bit of money aside for emergencies. Guys living on a subsistence income can't. 

There is NO NO NO free medical care in Thailand....Sure a few farangs may beat the system if they are in a car accident or some thing and skip out,but they are a drop in the bucket.... I have no doubt 99.7% of farangs pay...

 

Hey if you can not pay in Thailand you die......NOTHING IS FREE HERE...NOTHING

Please stop repeating this poor farangs are a burden to Thai health care rubbish...

Edited November 3, 2018 by fforest1

[sambum]

3 hours ago, The Truth said:

Thailand has been a haven for low income foreigners for decades and now, it seems, it's had enough and decided it's time to thin the herd. A lot of these people who've been gaming the system get sick and place an unfair burden on the state hospitals who generally won't turn them away.

Guys with a decent income can afford insurance or at least they can put away a bit of money aside for emergencies. Guys living on a subsistence income can't. 

Lot to learn!

[Patriot1066]

5 hours ago, sirineou said:

I never insinuated that you were looking for sympathy, I simply described my attitude which is not condescending but rather sympathetic.

the bunking regiment I alluded to would be depositing , funds you acquired via the different methods you described in your previous reply and then using them from there thus having a record of your income for immigration purposes. Assuming of course that such evidence will be acceptable.

i realise that it will be inconvenient and that there might be some minor expense associated but it is what it is. 

I think this thing is a tempest in a teacup, If one has the required income , one should be able to prove it. It is only reasonable.

 

I'm not clear on this, if you need 800 k. But for example put 400k in the bank then send the required top up, would they know if was a pension or other funds, technically could you could send it in and out each month and that would pas the test as it doesn't look where the money goes once here?

[Joe Mcseismic]

11 hours ago, sambum said:

"In fact the common belief from most posters is that people will need to show 12 x 65k transfers not 3  65k as you suggest."

 

Which would be impossible to do if your extension is due in July! Which is why some clarification should be forthcoming from Thai Immigration, but don't hold your breath! 

If the rule is only show 3 x 65,000 Bt for the retirement extension, why on earth would anyone use the 800k seasoned for three months method. It isn't logical. The monthly income route will be 12 x 65,000 Bt. It's the only one that makes sense.

[Monkeyrobot]

Hey Ubon Joe , I always just transferred the 800k to my Thai bank , does this mean now I can just transfer 65,000 per month and show them my bank book when renewing my extension of stay???

[sirineou]

2 hours ago, Patriot1066 said:

I'm not clear on this, if you need 800 k. But for example put 400k in the bank then send the required top up, would they know if was a pension or other funds, technically could you could send it in and out each month and that would pas the test as it doesn't look where the money goes once here?

It is not clear to me also,

for instance if it is not from a pension or an annuity etc, but simply deposits and withdrawals what is to prevent someone from depositing and withdrawing the same 60K every month. and at the end of the year you have the average needed.

  I don't do extensions  as I still work outside Thailand and I am in and out of the country a couple of times a year but next spring I will be putting my papers in for retirement and I rather not have a sizable amount of money sitting in a low yield account. 

 As long as pension deposits are accepted then I will be ok, if not, I am married to a Thai and will go through the inconvenience of jumping through the hoops of the mariedge extension.which will also give me the option to work if I get bored. Perhaps I will give teaching english a try.  I don't profess to know, like the rest   I am also thinking out loud. I guess time will tell.  

[Pattaya46]

38 minutes ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

If the rule is only show 3 x 65,000 Bt for the retirement extension, why on earth would anyone use the 800k seasoned for three months method. It isn't logical. The monthly income route will be 12 x 65,000 Bt. It's the only one that makes sense.

Exactly. This has been said several times already on the 3 mains thread (UK, US, AU), but many of "solutions" proposed by members would just kill the 800k option, so are very unlikely to happen.

 

11 hours ago, sambum said:

"In fact the common belief from most posters is that people will need to show 12 x 65k transfers not 3  65k as you suggest." Which would be impossible to do if your extension is due in July! 

There are easy ways to solve that small problem. Easiest would be that for the first year - 2019 - and because of the short notice of the change (if any!) TI would accept to show only 3x  65k transfers, but yearly renewals after that would have to show 12x 65k (or some kind of equivalent?).

[Will27]

8 hours ago, NanLaew said:

But the Australian Embassy's Statutory Declaration is only a legal document in Australia. It means doodly squat to Thai Immigration and if push comes to shove, even less in Thai courts. It is not by any stretch of the foreskin the validation that Thai Immigration law enforcement has suddenly found necessary.

 

Take comfort that is does have legal status in your homeland. Apparently there's a similar disclaimer on the US Embassy's sworn income affidavit and some US embassy staffers draw the applicant's attention to it and more recently there are reports that they also highlight it. The British Embassy income letter came with an embedded notarization that it had no legal standing anywhere on the planet.

This is what I've been saying.

 

People keep going on about Stat Dec's being a legal document and the penalties of going to jail for lying on one.

It rarely happens in Australia, let alone anything happening in Thailand for lying on one.

In this scenario, they're pretty much worthless.

 

Also, if the Embassy still provided a Stat Dec but refuses to verify the income, in all likelihood TI would

not accept it and people would complain about getting charged $70 bucks for a "worthless piece of paper".

 

I'm not one of those, like it or lump it guys, I think the visa system could do with an overhaul, but a lot of the venom

directed at the Embassy is misdirected I think.

[soalbundy]

9 hours ago, HappyAndRich said:

If you don´t have 800/400K. Easy, then it´s just to go home. Oh, I forgot. You sold everything to be able to live before?

arrogance isn't a nice trait but it's human, try to keep it in check. We all have different destinies and nobody is really in control even though we may think we are, that feeling usually changes on one's deathbed.

[onera1961]

9 hours ago, tropo said:

I have 800k on a Thai bank account party thread" and compare bank balances. Another member said he has 3 million on Thai bank accounts - can you beat that?

If I Have 3 million in a Thai bank, I would get an O-X for ten years and avoid TI altogether. I have it in a 401K but I am not willing to withdraw my 401K to bring it here in Thailand. 

[Naam]

17 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

If I Have 3 million in a Thai bank, I would get an O-X for ten years and avoid TI altogether.

only in your dreams because you'd still have to do the 90 days reporting.

[soalbundy]

11 minutes ago, Will27 said:

This is what I've been saying.

 

People keep going on about Stat Dec's being a legal document and the penalties of going to jail for lying on one.

It rarely happens in Australia, let alone anything happening in Thailand for lying on one.

In this scenario, they're pretty much worthless.

 

Also, if the Embassy still provided a Stat Dec but refuses to verify the income, in all likelihood TI would

not accept it and people would complain about getting charged $70 bucks for a "worthless piece of paper".

 

I'm not one of those, like it or lump it guys, I think the visa system could do with an overhaul, but a lot of the venom

directed at the Embassy is misdirected I think.

You are right in what you say of course but was all this turmoil really necessary ? You see we don't know how this came about, did TI write a formal letter to the embassies demanding verification of income ? was the word 'verification' ever questioned ? the Thai language does differentiate between certify and verify but if the 'demand' was verbal and in English perhaps the wrong word was used, perhaps certification of income was meant instead, there is a subtle but important difference which is perhaps why those embassies that apply stricter conditions before issuing the income letter have (as yet) remained unscathed because they certify after studying the documents,  just a thought.

[Pattaya46]

2 minutes ago, Naam said:

only in your dreams because you'd still have to do the 90 days reporting.

Why don't you do it online ?

I visit Immigration Office only once a year, for my 1'900B Extension.

 

26 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

If I Have 3 million in a Thai bank, I would get an O-X for ten years and avoid TI altogether.

Getting a Non-O-X is far more complicated, implies to go back my home country and doesn't give real advantage compared to Extension on Non-O

[Naam]

9 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

I visit Immigration Office only once a year, for my 1'900B Extension.

in 14 years i have never visited an immigration office and i have no plans to do so.

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, Naam said:

in 14 years i have never visited an immigration office and i have no plans to do so.

you ought to try it, at Kap Choen it's quite friendly and we get free coffee although I admit I only have a 20 minute drive to get there. 

[Peterw42]

Maybe mathematics isn't some peoples strong point, "its the same amount of money" using the income method or the lump sum method, 800k !!!! whether you bring it in monthly or yearly, keep it in a Thai account or keep it at home, you show and prove 800k. the income method doesn't mean you dont have the 800k, make 800k, have access to 800k. YOU STILL PROVE FUNDS OF 800K A YEAR.

 

I can have 800k in a Thai bank and be living on Mama noodles in a cold water, fan only room in Nakon nowhere, and going to a Thai hospital every second day OR I can have a liquid income of 65k a month and be supporting a buffalo and half a village in issan, and donating the rest to a Thai orphanage. 

 

I will say this very slowly for those that dont appear to understand.

 

ITS  THE  SAME  AMOUNT  OF MONEY !!!

 

On the day you walk out of the immigration office with a fresh extension stamp in your passport, you just showed proof of 800k over 12 months. 

 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2018 by Peterw42

[onera1961]

29 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Getting a Non-O-X is far more complicated, implies to go back my home country and doesn't give real advantage compared to Extension on Non-O

The last time I checked, the requirements are almost the same as an O-A. I got an O-A without any complication (may be I was lucky). And if going back to your home country in this age of cheap flights is an issue, why bother keeping 3 mil in a Thai bank?

Edited November 4, 2018 by onera1961

[Naam]

6 hours 28 minutes drive via route 304 and route 24 means the free coffee should be top quality. 

Edited November 4, 2018 by Naam

[Pattaya46]

15 minutes ago, Naam said:

in 14 years i have never visited an immigration office and i have no plans to do so.

This topic is about expats on Yearly Extension. Clearly you are not one of them... 

[Naam]

1 minute ago, Pattaya46 said:

17 minutes ago, Naam said:

in 14 years i have never visited an immigration office and i have no plans to do so.

This topic is about expats on Yearly Extension. Clearly you are not one of them... 

wrong assumption. i am an expat living in Thailand on yearly extensions.

[Pattaya46]

8 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

The last time I checked, the requirements are almost the same as O-A.

Yes, but O-A is complicated too, at least in my country.

And I was comparing O-X to yearly Extension, not O-A

 

8 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

 And if going back to your home country in this age of cheap flights is an issue, why bother keeping 3 mil in a Thai bank?

Who talked about the price of the fly ?

Just tell me why I should go back to my country if I have no more family and nor asset there ?

[onera1961]

21 minutes ago, Naam said:

in 14 years i have never visited an immigration office and i have no plans to do so.

You may be a shape shifting alien from the future banished to earth by a time lord for your mischievous behavior (????), but ordinary folks have to deal with extensions, 90-day reporting, TM30, TM 28 etc. 

[Pattaya46]

6 minutes ago, Naam said:

wrong assumption. i am an expat living in Thailand on yearly extensions.

So you are an expat not respecting Thai law... 

Clearly written on the TM7 Extension form: "Application MUST be made in person"... 

[cleverman]

19 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Maybe mathematics isn't some peoples strong point, "its the same amount of money" using the income method or the lump sum method, 800k !!!! whether you bring it in monthly or yearly, keep it in a Thai account or keep it at home, you show and prove 800k. the income method doesn't mean you dont have the 800k, make 800k, have access to 800k. YOU STILL PROVE FUNDS OF 800K A YEAR.

 

I can have 800k in a Thai bank and be living on Mama noodles in a cold water, fan only room in Nakon nowhere, and going to a Thai hospital every second day OR I can have a liquid income of 65k a month and be supporting a buffalo and half a village in issan, and donating the rest to a Thai orphanage. 

 

I will say this very slowly for those that dont appear to understand.

 

ITS  THE  SAME  AMOUNT  OF MONEY !!!

 

On the day you walk out of the immigration office with a fresh extension stamp in your passport, you just showed proof of 800k over 12 months. 

 

 

 

Every man and his dog is aware of this. There 5154 posts on this subject already, you should read some.

[Naam]

1 minute ago, Pattaya46 said:

So you are an expat not respecting Thai law... 

Clearly written on the TM7 Extension form: "Application MUST be made in person"... 

...except Klingon warriors!

[HappyAndRich]

10 hours ago, tropo said:

What are you on about? 

 

Even now, the monthly income method is not off the table, so take your personal baiting somewhere else. Maybe you could start a new thread: The "I have 800k on a Thai bank account party thread" and compare bank balances. Another member said he has 3 million on Thai bank accounts - can you beat that?

 

Only 3 million? That´s barely enough to pay for a simple operation at a descent hospital.

[HappyAndRich]

10 hours ago, Psychic said:

Sure, just leave the wife and kids.

 

You really are a piece of work.

 

Hope your wife loves all your money dearly because it seems to be your only redeeming feature,

I am actually not at all stating that anybody has to leave their wife and kids. Why would I really be a piece of work?

 

What I do not understand is how, seems like many on this forum according to all scared comments, people can throw them self into something they can´t handle.
Some just sell everything and move to another country? That´s plain crazy and includes poor knowledge and bad planning.
Others make marry and make children without the possibility to bring them to their home country out of sudden consequences.
A third part of the masses just can´t plan enough good so they are really safe with a buffer that make them can handle changes in the country they chose to settle in.

All the fine examples above didn´t have a plan or the common sense to build a secure platform to be enough for their own life. Sadly some made the bad decision to bring and create others into their life, which just creates a bigger problem and a true mess when the true and real shit hits the fan.

 

As for the statement of that my wife loves all my money, and that would be the only thing that keeps my family from falling apart. You don´t really get it, duh?
She married me and stays with me because we love each other and are a perfect match. That has been for 8 years. She was managing very well when i met her, so she didn´t need any rescue. Anyway, now we have a daughter, and another one coming in 6 month time. I asked her to stop work, and have more time in home. Created a home business for her that gives her a greater income than her work before. So, as of today she is still making it on her own.

The trick is to come here with a plan. Not take away what people already have without replacing it and create a final mess of misery.
 

Edited November 4, 2018 by HappyAndRich

[marcusarelus]

41 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

The last time I checked, the requirements are almost the same as an O-A. I got an O-A without any complication (may be I was lucky). And if going back to your home country in this age of cheap flights is an issue, why bother keeping 3 mil in a Thai bank?

Old folks have health problems during long flights.  Have you ever flown to Thailand? 

[HappyAndRich]

9 hours ago, sambum said:

You are fortunate to be Happy and Rich - some of us aren't but have enough to live here comfortably - probably not to your caviar and champagne for breakfast standard, though.

Our problem is trying to ignore such unhelpful comments as yours. You are one of my pet hates here - a member of the  "if you don't like it - go home" brigade. I have a suggestion for you - if you have nothing helpful or constructive to add - don't bother! 

My comments should be seen as helpful. They are meant to provide a wake up call for future expats that might read this forum and wish to settle in Thailand. They might wake up and realize they need a plan and a solid platform to stand on before they make a bad decision.

Like my father always said. Don´t jump in the water before you can swim. It´s just a bad, bad, choice.

[Peterw42]

7 minutes ago, cleverman said:

Every man and his dog is aware of this. There 5154 posts on this subject already, you should read some.

It would appear not as every 10th post is about how people using the income method must be poor, are cheating the system, they get sick more, they dont pay their medical bills and are in general of lesser character.