Australia joins the UK and USA with withdrawal of income verification

[Pawpcorn]

I tried to show bankbook with a past years worth ofregular monthly Social Security transfers to the Direct Deposit account Bangkok Bank had set up expressedly for that function, as well as the letter from SSA that stated my monthly payments... and they refused to look at either item... saying they would ONLY accept the Notarized Letter from American Embassy... as proof of monthly income. This at Udon Thani Immigration. I was told that his boss was in discussions with American authorities about alternative "proof of monthly income" but nothing had been decided, as of yet.

 

Very difficult to have any decent sleep, since this past Monday.

 

Pawpcorn

[Thechook]

So basically you have to give thais control of your money

[dick dasterdly]

4 minutes ago, rexall said:

Well, the 800k/400K has never made sense. Why would you need 800K to retire and only 400K to support a family?

One possible explanation might be because the Thai wife was expected to also contribute to income?

 

Admittedly unlikely.  The more likely explanation is that authorities would prefer that married 'farangs' aren't forced to abandon their wives and children?

[totally thaied up]

9 minutes ago, rexall said:

Well, the 800k/400K has never made sense. Why would you need 800K to retire and only 400K to support a family?

You just may only have 800K in a bank account. My wife and I have Millions upon Millions in just housing, cars and land for a start. I have family concerns. My investment profile in most cases is stronger due to family commitments. We have a stake here - a long term stake.

 

Packing up with a bag and leaving is not easy when you have a wife. Just leaving a Condo contract is easy (if you don’t own a Condo). Try packing up and going back to your home country. Sure, it can be done but it is a painful move.

[robblok]

15 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

Under Australian law, the person who signs a stat dec knowing it is false may be imprisoned for 4 years. The policeman, lawyer, public servant, school teacher and other honourable people who WITNESS your signature on the document bear NO responsibility for the substance of the document.

 

This is no different from the system that applies in 101 civilized countries all around the world.

That others use this system does not make it work good at all. I bet there has never been an expat living in Thailand convicted of giving a false statement for retirement but I am sure there were people faking it. 

 

So basically they finally put a stop to this easy to fake system. 

 

I can remember that i went to the Dutch embassy and I had to come up with actual tax documents. This was along time ago so I don't know how they do it. I do know they never had the option to swear to something they also wanted supporting documents. The best were of course statements from the tax office.

 

In my country if you file tax you can get an income statement and a statement like that could be easily verified. Nobody files more income then they have too, so its a pretty safe way to confirm income. It would only mean that expats are forced to file taxes even though this might not lead to any taxation as witholding tax is often enough. But it would be the perfect way to check income. 

[miamiman123]

3 hours ago, ezzra said:

The question is why now and whether the Thai government is behind it to force expats to bring more money into the country or is it a cahoot of the US, UK and the aussie governments for reasons that are know only to them...

To force em back home!

[Shiver]

I haven't followed the whole of all the threads on this topic, so apologies if I'm repeating someone else's comments, but...

 

Wouldn't it be better for all concerned that they just demand some money be kept on escrow (eg. $2000) so that if they have a need to send you back for some reason, they're doing it on the foreigners funds, then do like Cambodia and charge a few hundred dollars for a 1 year visa, and forget the 90 day thing, and make life more simple for all concerned?

 

 

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, Russell17au said:

The thing is that anyone who is on a government pension can prove their income quite easy and it is also easy for the embassies to be able to verify government pensions. It would not take much for each of the embassies to have access to the amounts that are paid for the different government pensions. I can print mine out of official Australian government letterhead and it tells the type of pension that I am receiving so how hard would it be for the embassies to have a list of the different government pensions to check.

Why bother when Thai Immigration won't accept it anyway?

[KiChakayan]

3 hours ago, OJAS said:

Definitely agree 100% with this sentence (but not with the rest of your post). Despite the so-called "agreements" which embassies claim to have reached with the Immigration Bureau, my gut feeling is that the days of the 40k/65k monthly income method will, in practice, be well behind us by this time next year.

 

I agree, the 40k/65k monthly into a bank account would be so easy to cheat, by rotating a portion of it, that is is doubtful it will ever be implemented. So I'd expect TI to require the originator of the transfer(s) to be a pension fund of some sort.

This would then raise another issue as, technically, these monies would become taxable for having been transferred to Thailand during the year of earning. Scary isn't?

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, Pib said:

Since the Thai immigration website can be hard to reach sometimes and sometimes the English page is not working, below is a snapshot from the two pages as of 9:30am.  Been no changes for years. 

 

Where the AU/US/UK embassy announcements talk "X-amount deposited into a Thai bank account" per Thai immigration website, the Thai immigration website just states evidence of monthly income and to quote from their website/the snapshot below: "Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month."   As you see there is no reference that this income needs to flow into a Thai bank. 

 

Remember, what foreign embassies say carries no weight until "Thai Immigration" say the same thing/publish specific guidance which they have not done as of this date/time.  Summary: status quo for need of embassy income letter if using the income method.

 

https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22

 

 

https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_18

 

Today's flogging a dead horse (again) post of the day award goes to...

[cleverman]

1 hour ago, wgdanson said:

Interpret it how you want. I think I, and others, are clutching at straws with this document. We all know that it is up to Thai Immigration to come out and say what they will accept for extension renewal. As Joe said last week, let's just wait and see what happens. On this subject I bid you all farewell. Bye.

Finally some sense, everybody is just saying the same Ol same Ol but different embassy. I'm with you wgd., I'm outa here too. Imagine what it will be like as other embassies stop issuing letters. 

[amse]

30,000 baht in wages per month for a Thai citizen is a really good middle class living, which would certainly be adequate enough for a foreigner here, BUT like many countries, GREED & WEALTH is the name of the game concerning us Farangs.

[JackThompson]

52 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

They have NEVER accepted the 65k a month into a Thai bank, although that would be far less easy to fake, unless it was 65k IN and next day 65k OUT. Then it would be up to the Imm. Officer to notice that and say 'sorry mate'.If an OZ, or 'sorry SIR' if a Brit !

That would be a foolish way to do it. 

 

When withdrawing one's needed spending money, simply take out a few thousand baht extra each time, and deposit that extra in the cash-deposit machine to your account with another bank (or even the same bank).  Every so often, send a chunk of that money back to your home-country from the other account (via bitcoin, dee-money, etc).

[wgdanson]

10 minutes ago, miamiman123 said:

To force em back home!

And in the case of UK, cost the NHS a good few thousand pounds to look after those re-patriated guys.

[poanoi]

hoping they will just ditch requirements altogether beside stating how much they want per year, its more transparent, its easier to compare

living cost with other nations, it will end immigration corruption just like that, and to top it off the state of thailand makes more money

[Ratt Thai]

4 hours ago, Crossy said:

Thanks for that, no real surprise, I suspect the other embassies will follow suit ????

 

The links at the bottom of the notice don't really help as there are no specifics other than the full deposit option 

https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_22

https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_18

 

I've fixed the spelling error in the topic title ????

 

I think they mention this ...
"5. Only for Criteria (5) and (6), the applicant must attach a funds deposit certificate issued by a
bank in Thailand and a copy of a bankbook, or attach documents proving that the parents or alien
husband earns an average monthly income of no less than Baht 40,000 throughout the year, such as
any particular individual income tax return together with payment receipt, evidence of receiving
retirement pension, evidence of receiving interest from funds deposit, or evidence of having other
funds issued by the relevant agency. An affidavit must also be submitted confirming the alien’s
marital or parental status with a Thai national."

 

So, in my opinion;
1: the applicant must attach a funds deposit certificate issued by a
bank in Thailand and a copy of a bankbook.

 

or:

2: attach documents proving that the parents or alien
husband earns an average monthly income of no less than Baht 40,000 throughout the year,

such as:
a: any particular individual income tax return together with payment receipt,

or:

b: evidence of receiving retirement pension,

or:

c : evidence of receiving interest from funds deposit,

or:

d: evidence of having other funds issued by the relevant agency.

 

Please correct me if i am wrong...

Edited November 2, 2018 by Ratt Thai

[KiChakayan]

1 hour ago, rexall said:

Well, the 800k/400K has never made sense. Why would you need 800K to retire and only 400K to support a family?

Should be pretty obvious, no?

A retiree is something like a long term tourist. Thailand is prepared to grant you the privilege to stay, your counterpart is to spend your good money. If you are poor you are not interesting, fair enough.

If you support a Thai family you contribute to the country, just as if you were working or having a business. Therefore they keep the financial requirement to a minimum, expecting the kids to whom you give a good eduction to contribute to the nation once they grow up. 

Edited November 2, 2018 by KiChakayan

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, Ratt Thai said:

So, in my opinion;

Those are only examples of what the income could be from. That is what "such as" means. That does not mean those are the only type of income accepted.

 

[mdmayes]

It is only a matter of time before Canada will pull their service.

Other countries are looking a lot more desirable to retire to now.  

[wvavin]

This is a very good move to weed off non genuine cases.

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

it is possible to interpret the police order , using the retirement combination method as requiring the income portion to be in a Thai bank

Correct. And to point out @Pib dilemma as quoted by yourself...

 

3 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

... As you see there is no reference that this income needs to flow into a Thai bank. ...

By the same token, there is no reference to foreign-based income and associated income letters, sworn affidavits or statutory declarations either.

[Ban Phe Dezza]

3 hours ago, Will27 said:

You wouldn't want the Aussie dollar to drop a bit though.

 

On the current exchange rate, that's about 300 Baht per month over.

Romeo Sierra the Aussie Pension barely reaches 40,000 baht ATM per 4 week payment and if Centrelink know you are married to a Non eligible person it drops to Roughly 30,000 

Age Pension rates – Single (per fortnight)

From 20 September 2018From  Base$834.40$826.20$8.20 pf

1,703AUD =  40,577.39THB and this is the amount I received  this month  

 

Edited November 2, 2018 by Ban Phe Dezza
simplified post as it has been input by other posters

[balo]

Just use a visa agent instead , to avoid all this mess. 

[mdmayes]

33 minutes ago, Thechook said:

So basically you have to give thais control of your money

aka: Kiss you money goodbye!

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, Longcut said:

... I for one really didn't care how my neighbor got to stay here. 

As long as I knew I was legal, no business of mine.

... but still you chose to finger point and rationalize that someone else has sh!t in your porridge.

[Ratt Thai]

Just now, ubonjoe said:

Those are only examples of what the income could be from. That is what "such as" means. That does not mean those are the only type of income accepted.

 

I agree, they accept anything with underlying documentation ( origin of the money ) as per "d: evidence of having other funds issued by the relevant agency",

hence "proving that the parents or alien husband earns an average monthly income of no less than Baht 40,000 throughout the year"

Proving and not just shifting money in some fashion that the bank account shows money moving around.

[soalbundy]

4 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Today's glass half-empty post of the day award goes to...

a lot of gloom and doom merchants here today, it's the thrill of looking at a bad storm through the window and saying you hope the roof doesn't blow off. As of yet NOTHING has changed OFFICIALLY except that three, 3, embassies have said they aren't issuing the letters, the reaction from TI still isn't forthcoming but whatever happens you can be sure that there wont be huge changes in rules and procedures.

[NextStationBangkok]

Money matters....

[BestB]

4 hours ago, TSF said:

Looks like all farang living in Thailand on annual extensions will now need to have the 400K & 800K THB in a Thai bank account in order to continue living in Thailand. Now, just wait and see if next year they'll double the required sums. I've been expecting it for a couple years now, but it'll happen because they want you gone.

I can see Khason road scenario take 2. 

 

First they wil do all they can to get people out. Once they see the damage it has done , they will start to brain storm on how to get them back , only I doubt those who are gone will return 

[chrisinth]

2 hours ago, glegolo said:

Yes the will follow, BUT ONLY the countries embassies that are not willing to confirm income fantasies... And that is actually good, it hurt the rest of us to have that in front of the thai immigration, They may believe that all of us are doing the very same stunt as Australia US and UK..

 

glegolo

I don't think there is any embassy or consulate out there that can verify, as true, an individual's claim to income as they don't have access, authority, manpower or time to do this. Further, I believe this stipulation, of verifying individual incomes, has been put to all embassies & consulates in Thailand already with only UK, US & Aus reacting so far.

 

IMO, for income method for extensions based on marriage and retirement for an individual, will be a 12 month statement from the person's Thai bank showing an average monthly income of either +40,000 baht or +65,000 baht (not sure how exchange rates will affect this or if they will use the exchange rate at time of application to access).

For the retirement income choosing the double option of money in the account and reduced monthly income, that will remain as long as, on average, +65,000 baht is shown. Covering letter from the bank to the state of the account will become accepted as normal procedure, TBC as acceptable by Thai Immigration at a later date.

 

Only my thoughts on this, nothing verified or clarified.