Delaying the salary by xx days to prevent foreigners from "running"

[BurgerGung]

The Thais get paid monthly, near the end of the calendar month. But foreign teachers might disappear once they get paid, so the reasoning has been let's pay them xx days later.

 

Q: Is that something you encountered?

 

Can this be legal?

 

Why not pay staff quarterly? German insurance companies pay doctors quarterly (my sister hung her shingle and she must prepay rent, staff, ... only to wait to get reimbursed.

 

Just wondering.

 

 

[ozmeldo]

Years ago I recall Korean's did something like this. I believe by law you are to be paid on or before the last day of the month of which you worked (1st) in Thailand. I think your posit illegal. It sounds like something a shitty agency would do, public school just couldn't be bothered.

 

Non B holders are already in a corner. It takes weeks to normally unwind a visa and wp. It is still possible to fly out, but if you're planning on returning and beginning a job search I think your will have issues with immigration.

 

So, imo it's already baked in. Nevertheless, I can see agencies doing this.

 

NEVER work for a fing agency

Edited November 4, 2018 by ozmeldo

[otherstuff1957]

When I worked for a Language School/Agency, many years ago, they paid the teachers on the 5th of every month.  This was done because of their cash flow, the schools were supposed to pay them on the 1st, so the money would usually clear by the 5th.  It was a real pain because there were always some teachers who didn't have enough money put aside to pay their rent on time!

 

 

BTW:  I am not defending this practice, just explaining it.

Edited November 4, 2018 by otherstuff1957

[Loaded]

If they say they will pay you x number of days after the end of the month and they pay you x number of days after the end of the month, they are paying you on-time.





Sent from my CPH1701 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Scott]

The pay schedule is often set forth in the contract, and that should be honored.   I know one school that pays on or before the 2nd of the next month.   Sometimes they pay sooner, but (almost) never later than that.   In 20+ years of association with them, there was only once they paid later and that was due to an unscheduled holiday which meant no work until the 3rd.   The school did offer to have someone be at the school to pay those that actually wanted to come in on a long holiday, but no one took up the offer.

 

I would be very suspicious of places that don't pay on time.   Many teachers work to pay the bills and everything from rent on down is scheduled around the pay period.  

 

[quandow]

19 hours ago, BurgerGung said:

Why not pay staff quarterly?

5555!!!  You REALLY think the average foreign teacher has enough self-discipline to make their money last that long? Too many teachers are broke and desperate three days before payday. And when the school surprises everyone by delaying payday a day or two, then the REAL panic starts!

Edited November 4, 2018 by quandow

[Preacher]

I even get paid between the 26th and 28th of the month, well before the end of the month thus. The same day government teachers receive their salary.

 

But I do know that at some schools Thai contract teachers sometimes don't get paid for months because the school didn't receive the budget for that yet. They have to stick it up or find another job.

[kwilco]

I've heard some private school owners only pay part of the hourly rate, paying the balance at the end of any particular course

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by kwilco

[melvinmelvin]

what is not clear to me from above posts; when you say paid on 2nd paid on 25th paid on 3rd,

for what month, current? previous? next?

 

in my (non Thai environment) salary payment for current month tend to be between 12th and 18th,

civil service, retirees, private sector having different dates

 

rents also tend to be collected about mid month (for current month) 

[kwilco]

one private school I know pays fortnightly!

 

incidentally if a payday falls on a Sunday, there is no reason not to get pid the day

[ozmeldo]

I believe by law all companies must pay by the first. That's why the banks are choked first week of the month.

 

In US they pay weekly, biweekly and monthly. Expense checks come whenever.

 

I think that law is laid down precisely so payday is bw and known by all and sundry.

 

I'm very much of the belief paying after the first of the month is illegal.

 

If payday (1) falls on weekend, you are supposed to get paid on the Friday. Or even if a Monday holiday, pay on Friday.

 

I always get a bit of a laugh when teachers are going nuts over a small pay snafu. I mean you're working in Thailand, for shit money. What do you expect? It's actually pretty consistent at public schools. Full grown adults that can't manage a shortfall for a few days.

Edited November 5, 2018 by ozmeldo

[TerryLH]

23 hours ago, ozmeldo said:

I believe by law you are to be paid on or before the last day of the month of which you worked (1st) in Thailand.

 

29 minutes ago, ozmeldo said:

I believe by law all companies must pay by the first.

I think you are wrong about the first.  I don't remember for sure, but think it's the 3rd.  Definitely not the first.  Someone with a copy of the Labor Act could find it - if it's that important.

[sumrit]

Don't know what the law is but at a Thai friend's factory, he calculates all his workforces salary from the first day to the last day in the month then pay them on the fifteenth of the following month.

[Suradit69]

15 hours ago, quandow said:

5555!!!  You REALLY think the average foreign teacher has enough self-discipline to make their money last that long? Too many teachers are broke and desperate three days before payday. And when the school surprises everyone by delaying payday a day or two, then the REAL panic starts!

So you're saying that even though German insurance companies pay doctors quarterly, that doesn't represent a logical premise for paying teachers in Thailand who live payday to payday?  Radical thinking sir.

 

On 11/4/2018 at 10:51 AM, BurgerGung said:

German insurance companies pay doctors quarterly 

 

[recom273]

I'm pretty sure its illegal, in was under the impression that in Thai law its illegal to withhold any money in a form of a deposit, which is in essence what they are doing here.

 

I have seen it all - payday halfway through the month, deposits, book deposits, etc - Whatever way, the admin always seems to win, I once worked for a school who stung the Filipino and Thai teachers with a "compulsory saving scheme", but I have also seen so many "teachers" calling in their resignation from the airport as they headed back to the Bangkok after the a couple of days sick to bridge the gap to payday, what do the honest teachers expect will happen.

 

Someone mentioned before that it sounded like an agency trick .. I must have been lucky because the only time I have ever seen these strokes pulled was on direct contract with government and bilingual schools. 

[quandow]

3 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

So you're saying that even though German insurance companies pay doctors quarterly, that doesn't represent a logical premise for paying teachers in Thailand who live payday to payday?  Radical thinking sir.

 

 

Comparing the average foreign teacher in Thailand to a German doctor? Say that out loud and listen to how silly it sounds!  5555555!!!

[My Thai Life]

On 11/4/2018 at 10:51 AM, BurgerGung said:

The Thais get paid monthly, near the end of the calendar month. But foreign teachers might disappear once they get paid, so the reasoning has been let's pay them xx days later.

 

Q: Is that something you encountered?

 

Can this be legal?

This question in a different form was answered a few weeks ago.

 

I assume you're talking about government schools. Thai teachers are paid directly by the government, foreign teachers (and short-term contract Thai teachers) are paid by the school. Hence the potential difference in timing. It has nothing to do with "running".

 

By the way, "running" - assuming you are on a legal job with a work permit - would be disastrous for you and your tenure in Thailand.

[Rhys]

...that is the issue at times... does a school pay on time.. if not.. Leave when all is in order...

[My Thai Life]

On 11/4/2018 at 10:51 AM, BurgerGung said:

The Thais get paid monthly, near the end of the calendar month. But foreign teachers might disappear once they get paid, so the reasoning has been let's pay them xx days later.

Given that Thai government teachers and foreign short-term contract teachers are paid via different routes, you are likely to find this disparity in many other government schools. So the advice you've been given to leave seems ill-considered.

 

If the "xx" is such a big deal for foreigners maybe they should arrive with a bit more money in the bank. Let's see, a notional average gov't school salary divided by number of days in the month = roughly 1,000 baht per day. Is it such a hardship to maintain a few thousand baht in the bank to tide yourselves over the "xx"? If so maybe living in foreign countries is not for you.

 

Of course you could try "running", but you'll end up out of pocket to a much larger amount than a few thousand baht I suspect.

 

As for your question of is it "legal" - well paying you a day or two "late" is definitely not illegal. But as you haven't told us what "late" means in this context, it's impossible to answer your question definitively.

 

By the way, I don't remember you saying (1) what's in your contract (2) whether your are paid a fixed number of days after the Thais (3) whether you are paid on the same date every month (4) what "xx" is.

 

 

[DavisH]

On 11/5/2018 at 6:26 AM, quandow said:

5555!!!  You REALLY think the average foreign teacher has enough self-discipline to make their money last that long? Too many teachers are broke and desperate three days before payday. And when the school surprises everyone by delaying payday a day or two, then the REAL panic starts!

We had one who was skint after two weeks (two weekends hitting the bars after pay day didn't help). 

[ozmeldo]

On 11/4/2018 at 9:14 PM, otherstuff1957 said:

When I worked for a Language School/Agency, many years ago, they paid the teachers on the 5th of every month.  This was done because of their cash flow, the schools were supposed to pay them on the 1st, so the money would usually clear by the 5th.  It was a real pain because there were always some teachers who didn't have enough money put aside to pay their rent on time!

 

 

BTW:  I am not defending this practice, just explaining it.

Sounds reasonable doesn't it teachers?

 

But it's always and only agencies working with teachers that pull this stunt. If you think about it do you want to work for a company that can't cover it's payroll? Meanwhile the fancy pants farang arrogant af manager has condos, nice car, clothes...

 

All that money held for a week x 12 months = money. They are making money on your salary.

 

What corporation would be so stupid as to not require payment of it's contracted employees at least ten days ahead. Think about it.

 

The reason the law is in place is to demand these shitty Thai companies (agencies here) pay their employees on time, every time because if there was no law they wouldn't.

 

You know you're working for a shit agency when the best thing that can be said about it is that it pays on time. Especially when it's the third day of the month.

 

*no animosity directed at otherstuff

Edited November 6, 2018 by ozmeldo

[NoMeAmes]

My German (he was Italian, but born in Germany) boss often forgot to pay my salary until the 20th. When every 15th I had to pay for health insurance and if I don't have enough money in my account, I get fined. My boss usually paid us between the 9th and 12th of the month, but on the months that he forgot, guess who had to pay the fines from the health insurance??? It's not all rainbows and flowers in Germany. Just saying. 

 

Also, if it states in your contract that you will get paid on date x every month, and that's what they do, and you agreed to it, then you really can't expect them to give them your money on the first, now, could you? If you don't agree or you want your money always on the 1st, then you need to work at a school who pays on the 1st. 

[ozmeldo]

I honestly do not know this. It may be legal to pay later than the first, but everything i know and every job I've worked runs counter - payday is the first.

 

Therefore, being forced to sign agreements stating some arbitrary day would make that clause invalid. The law supercedes.

 

I've had an employer I really liked and was quite ok with not being paid on the first. In fact, I'd often tell him, just pay me ... I'm good with that. He usually paid on the first anyway because of the broke ass teachers flipping out but if my boss is totally cool and it's just a day or two because it falls on the weekend or holiday personally I don't care. I know with absolute certainty i will be paid.

 

One never knows that with agencies. They are hand to mouth no matter the facade.

 

There are only two reasons to work for an agency. First, there is a school that you are just dying to get on your resume, but an agency controls it. Second, you live in Nakon Nowhere and the only decent school is run thru an agency. Issan has this issue. Some really godless agencies up there. Anyway, other than that it's just idiocy. There is always a similar or better job, pay without working for the slavers. It's just laziness and they especially prey on new teachers like vampires