Counting The Jews In Thailand

[Heng]

I rent a lot to a family who run a used car 'tent' called Jew Automotive.... but they are from Ubon.

[astral]

None here in Malaysia............

The government does not acknowledge the State of Israel,

but they do allow news reports about the State, they do not recognise.

Some weird logic there.

[sceadugenga]

Wikipedia is a joke, and taking the stuff there as 'factual' is very dangerous.

Wikipedia? Written by people with too much time on their hands, for people with too little.

So don't stop there, where do we find a comprehensive reference work written by people with no personal axe to grind?

Encyclopedia Brittanica?

[pampal]

None here in Malaysia............

The government does not acknowledge the State of Israel,

but they do allow news reports about the State, they do not recognise.

Some weird logic there.

 

Malaysia's policy is that they refer to Israel as the Occupiers of Palestine, and until a 2 state solution is reached, they will not recognize Israel. This is a policy subscribed to by many muslim states.

[Jimjim]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0RtRTx7NMA

http://bangkok.mfa.gov.il/mfm/web/main/mis...ssionID=64&

go to the left of the page, november 2006 in the scrolling area and u will find the utube video link by pong lang sa on........ my (israeli ) kids thought it was hysterically funny; anon didnt quite catch the cultural reference ... his israeli'ness only includes humous in pita and meat cooked in coconut sauce in pita... wait til we get to passover in an other month or so..... fortunately, most of us go bt sephardic rules so we can still eat rice (ashkenazis get stuck with potatoes for eight constipated days)... we will introduce him to the wonders of matza, kneidalach, thank god for coconut maroons...

i think we will plan a thai pesach again this year (last year did it with tom goong, bbq chicken, thai style basil and beef, som tam)

This is a popular music/comedic troupe. I've seen them on Thai television and videos in vans many times. I've never caught their name. Is it Pong Lang Sa On?

[toptuan]

Who cares, Jews, or any "minority"?

What's important is that people from any background learn to live/work together in an understanding and productive way.

I'm disgusted by walls, physical or otherwise, anywhere!

Most races and minorities are quite proud of their historical and cultural roots, and it doesn't seem to be a bad thing. Case in point: You should visit Thailand sometime.

[bina]

Are we talking about ethnic Jews or those who practice Judaism? There is a distinct difference. Also, 1 out of 5 Israelis are not Jews and a larger percentage do not practice Judaism.

The number 199 for expats who are ethnic Jews sounds about right.

ืnot even going to get in to the "who is a jew arguement" but your head is up your tush.... i'm born jewish ashkenazi, not practicing, kibbutznik with thai husband... what does that make me, huh.

mig, hebrew is a semitic language whilst yiddish is a sort of mixture of german and hebrew with its own flavour... it is mostly a 'dead' language although being revived among young people as an 'in' or 'ethnic' thing to do, and spoken and written by a large amount of very orthodox jews(The ones that look like they stepped out of a few centuries ago, or like the american amish) . yiddish is even different among us: americans speak yiddish differently than european yiddish etc. htere is also ladino, a spanish based hebrew language spoken (still) among ethnic north african, spanish etc jews.

no language is difficult if u like speaking and enjoy languages. if i can learn thai and hebrew ,u can learn yiddish!!! and if my arabic speaking zoo worker can learn thai, so can u. HOWEVER, its the cultural part of the language that makes it special. to just learn yiddish seems to me a waste of time unless u are going to live in brooklyn new york or mea shearim israel. its the jokes, stories, theater etc that , as i'm told, are extremely colourful and rich and show a world that most people dont see or know about, including of course the holocaust, nazi stuff and wwII. my own 'cultural' background is more modern, american mixed with israeli ; i live on a communal (still) kibbutz and am not religious.

i am actually curious to find info in thai to give anon to read so he can at least understand some of the background of my parents, grandparents (european jewish community)and of course, modern day problematic israel. i lack the thai to explain situations that we can barely explain to ourselves.

if u have specific questions, u can email or pm me so as to avoid going off topic, or causing stupid inflamatory remarks.

i forgot to say, went to a quaker high school so that really mixes it all doesnt it????

the funniest scene by the way is i think in mel gibson in blazing saddles with the black guy speaking yiddish?!

bina

[orchis]

You mistake Mel Gibson for Mel Brooks, now that's Jewish humour!

[Maizefarmer]

199 - I disagree with that figure - to start with there is a large permanent community of Jews located round the cnr form the "House on the Pond", Suk 23 I think - and there are more than 200 in that community, not to mention the diplomatic staff (who live elswehere - do we include them), and the crowd that run the Khao San Road businesses, who live live elsewhere.

Would have a clue, but its far more than 199 - excluding visitors at any given time, of which their are loads.

[ColPyat]

199 - I disagree with that figure - to start with there is a large permanent community of Jews located round the cnr form the "House on the Pond", Suk 23 I think - and there are more than 200 in that community, not to mention the diplomatic staff (who live elswehere - do we include them), and the crowd that run the Khao San Road businesses, who live live elsewhere.

Would have a clue, but its far more than 199 - excluding visitors at any given time, of which their are loads.

It might be jews with Thai nationality, and not expats on nonimms or diplomat visas.

There were a few german dissidents of the nazi times washed up in Thailand before and during WW2, and there might very well be some jews under them who became Thais then.

[Jingthing]

199 - I disagree with that figure - to start with there is a large permanent community of Jews located round the cnr form the "House on the Pond", Suk 23 I think - and there are more than 200 in that community, not to mention the diplomatic staff (who live elswehere - do we include them), and the crowd that run the Khao San Road businesses, who live live elsewhere.

Would have a clue, but its far more than 199 - excluding visitors at any given time, of which their are loads.

It might be jews with Thai nationality, and not expats on nonimms or diplomat visas.

There were a few german dissidents of the nazi times washed up in Thailand before and during WW2, and there might very well be some jews under them who became Thais then.

Interesting. Thats possible I suppose, though I never heard of that community. There were many Jews who fled to Shanghai China during WW2; maybe a few got Shanghaied and ended up in Thailand instead. Jews do love their Chinese food ... especially for Christmas dinner.

Gung Hoy Fat Choy!

Edited February 17, 2007 by Jingthing

[Maizefarmer]

One Thai family I know of (meaning indigenous Thai) who converted to Judaism about a generation back - but yes, I take your point, the community off Sukhumvit are all long time Thai residents and it would not suprize me if many of them were indeed Thai citizens.

199 - I disagree with that figure - to start with there is a large permanent community of Jews located round the cnr form the "House on the Pond", Suk 23 I think - and there are more than 200 in that community, not to mention the diplomatic staff (who live elswehere - do we include them), and the crowd that run the Khao San Road businesses, who live live elsewhere.

Would have a clue, but its far more than 199 - excluding visitors at any given time, of which their are loads.

It might be jews with Thai nationality, and not expats on nonimms or diplomat visas.

There were a few german dissidents of the nazi times washed up in Thailand before and during WW2, and there might very well be some jews under them who became Thais then.

Interesting. Thats possible I suppose, though I never heard of that community. There were many Jews who fled to Shanghai China during WW2; maybe a few got Shanghaied and ended up in Thailand instead. Jews do love their Chinese food ... especially for Christmas dinner.

Gung Hoy Fat Choy!

[meom]

and do u count the thai wives who converted?? i know quite a number of them and they do the 'back and forth to thailand every year' thing.

How does conversion work? Always thought jewishness was passed on through the blood line of the mother.

[bina]

You mistake Mel Gibson for Mel Brooks, now that's Jewish humour!

brooks..........yeeeeeh!! was never good with names.....

now to answer several different points:

conversion happens just like in the other two 'major' religions: u 'must' believe, u must study and go thru a test with a rabbi and u get a certificate, and u must live the life style and they do check up on u in the beginning(in israel much more strict then in the states with the various types of conversions and judaism).

so if a woman converts, then her children that are born after she converted wil automatically be jewish, those born before, can go thru a symbolic conversion up til the age of 13 (i think thats the age, again israel is crazy a bit about this stuff).

ethnically (and according to the halacha , the jewish 'law') born to a jewish mother, u are jewish and also YES it does show up in DNA genetic footprints as there are diseases that are found primarily in jewish communities, tay sachs being the most famous one. there are others equally as nasty belonging to the meditteranean jewish communities etc. if i have children by anon, then they will be genetically and ethnically jewish ashkenazi /thai with israeli passport and american passports. a true 'mutt' as i am ethnically jewish if not really a religious one (buddhist from age of ten actually).

actually intrigues me the idea of the thai that converted last century, i would like to know more. heard a lecture by one of the shanghai jews. some of their family members married chinese women and so the gene pool and ethnic background has changed. some famous business family in israel i think has their background in china also although my memory is foggy about this. its quite interesting really. have now got my father digging around for info since he is really into all this stuff (roots etc).

well, thanx to a simple question, i've got some new ideas to persue in my spare time instead of watching television......

shalom,

bina

Edited February 17, 2007 by bina

[ColPyat]

conversion happens just like in the other two 'major' religions: u 'must' believe, u must study and go thru a test with a rabbi and u get a certificate, and u must live the life style and they do check up on u in the beginning(in israel much more strict then in the states with the various types of conversions and judaism).

Just wanna add - i knew once somebody who converted, and according to him it was tremendously difficult to learn all what was needed for the tests.

[Jingthing]

Well, as long we are on the broader subject of Jews in Asia, you must check out this recent very amusing article about positive but absurd stereotyping of Jews in China:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...7020601713.html

Sorry, I think you need to register to read it.

[Nignoy]

Are we talking about ethnic Jews or those who practice Judaism? There is a distinct difference. Also, 1 out of 5 Israelis are not Jews and a larger percentage do not practice Judaism.

The number 199 for expats who are ethnic Jews sounds about right.

ืnot even going to get in to the "who is a jew arguement" but your head is up your tush.... i'm born jewish ashkenazi, not practicing, kibbutznik with thai husband... what does that make me, huh.

mig, hebrew is a semitic language whilst yiddish is a sort of mixture of german and hebrew with its own flavour... it is mostly a 'dead' language although being revived among young people as an 'in' or 'ethnic' thing to do, and spoken and written by a large amount of very orthodox jews(The ones that look like they stepped out of a few centuries ago, or like the american amish) . yiddish is even different among us: americans speak yiddish differently than european yiddish etc. htere is also ladino, a spanish based hebrew language spoken (still) among ethnic north african, spanish etc jews.

no language is difficult if u like speaking and enjoy languages. if i can learn thai and hebrew ,u can learn yiddish!!! and if my arabic speaking zoo worker can learn thai, so can u. HOWEVER, its the cultural part of the language that makes it special. to just learn yiddish seems to me a waste of time unless u are going to live in brooklyn new york or mea shearim israel. its the jokes, stories, theater etc that , as i'm told, are extremely colourful and rich and show a world that most people dont see or know about, including of course the holocaust, nazi stuff and wwII. my own 'cultural' background is more modern, american mixed with israeli ; i live on a communal (still) kibbutz and am not religious.

i am actually curious to find info in thai to give anon to read so he can at least understand some of the background of my parents, grandparents (european jewish community)and of course, modern day problematic israel. i lack the thai to explain situations that we can barely explain to ourselves.

if u have specific questions, u can email or pm me so as to avoid going off topic, or causing stupid inflamatory remarks.

i forgot to say, went to a quaker high school so that really mixes it all doesnt it????

the funniest scene by the way is i think in mel gibson in blazing saddles with the black guy speaking yiddish?!

bina

I a gree with you about yiddish , as a pom on loan to a vienna zoo,just learned german in the early 70,s to be introduced to the mixed up european jewish culture that evolved after WW2, with its wonderful music , theatres, cafes and Comedians, and the language and the food!!All this after just recovering from 4years culture shock in early 60,s thailand and a short and very painful 4 months in Northern Ireland in 1968,This Austrian jewish culture and hospitality made such an impression on me,that I,m taking my australian kids and grandkids in october to see for them selves Nignoy

[konangrit]

As far as the number of Jews in Thailand, of course nobody knows (and maybe nobody cares) because how would you count them anyway, even if people agreed on the definition of what a Jew in Thailand really is?

From a census, Thailand has one every decade, the last one occurring in 2000. The Wikipedia figures for Thailand don't include any references, so can't really be relied upon.

Wikipedia is a joke, and taking the stuff there as 'factual' is very dangerous.

Well, I wouldn't say that it's a joke, although yes, it's dangerous to take it as factual, but good articles will have references where you can check the validity of the statements. I find it's a good starting source for when I want to find out more about a subject.

Edited February 17, 2007 by konangrit

[suegha]

I visited Poland some years ago and was able to communicate with the Jews in Krakow with a mixture of German and Hebrew. They spoke 'European' Yiddish among themselves and we got along very well, when we (or they) didn't understand something we just put it in another way and all was well. We had a great day.

[tutsiwarrior]

this is ridiculous...inna previous thread I was countin' the italians in Nashville, TN an' now we're countin' the jews in Thailand...I think that we all gotta think ob better ways to spend our time...

[Jingthing]

this is ridiculous...inna previous thread I was countin' the italians in Nashville, TN an' now we're countin' the jews in Thailand...I think that we all gotta think ob better ways to spend our time...

Yeah, I am sure you have better things to do than read threads you personally aren't interested in. Speak for yourself. Some people are interested.

[tutsiwarrior]

this is ridiculous...inna previous thread I was countin' the italians in Nashville, TN an' now we're countin' the jews in Thailand...I think that we all gotta think ob better ways to spend our time...

Yeah, I am sure you have better things to do than read threads you personally aren't interested in. Speak for yourself. Some people are interested.

absurdity has no personal denomination, you idiot...

[Johpa]

They must have finally run out of Jews in Kazakhstan and are now looking for more Jews to throw down the wells during the next National Kazakh Sports festival. With only 200 in Thailand, less than half the typical road fatalities over the Thai New Year, they will probably be rounded up and exported to Almaty. Mai pen rai.

[Ijustwannateach]

I had a good Jewish friend here in Thailand until he was transferred by his company; he was quite the history buff and had done some research on Jewish residents of Bangkok- there's apparently a Jewish cemetery somewhere and it seems that during WWII there were some friendly government officials here who helped a few people out despite the Axis occupation.

[bina]

ijwt, do u have more info?? although i wont be in thailand for a long time, and my parents probably never, my dad has this fixation about remote jewish communities so i mentioned to him this thread yesterday and now he is all gung ho! about finding more info.

tutsi, its your fate to fall into all threads that mention the word hummous, havent u noticed by now???

i have to admit this is an absolutely fascinating thread and hasnt gotten personal or nasty yet surprisingly enough. who would ahve thought htat someone would even think about this subject.

i actually had a great uncle who was the something or other beneath the secretary of the treasury and the official translator for the japanese and americans during the war. he was widely travelled in SEASIA including also new guinea (dined with a chieftan and ate some kind of wierd slug that tasted to him like whipped cream, and wasnt kosher) and other out of the way places in the south pacific, dined with kings and diplomats and i think he also had an appointement with His majesty the King of thailand. his house was full of artifacts etc from nippon, siam as he was an antique books and artifacts collector also.

for a jewish kid from bronx new york who was champion featherweight boxer this was amazing unto itself. he spoke fluent japanese with all the nuances and was one of the official translators of the treaty at the end of the war. i think he also spoke thai. unfortunately he went into coma many years ago and died recently and i was never able to utilize him as a source of information (like most young kids with eccentric great uncles i hated to visit him and listent ot his stories but now of course i regret that).

on top of all that, i had a professor whose son spoke papuan new guinea and yiddish (as anthropologists the family was posted in new guinea at one point, and the prof. was (now dead) also a prominent figure in holaucaust and yiddish literature etc so his kids grew up bilingual with a wierd bunch of languages.

so now its my turn to be the eccentric aunt. must be genetic.

bina

Edited February 18, 2007 by bina

[konangrit]

Hi Bina,

Sorry, I don't want to take this thread off topic, but from what I can gather, to be considered a Jew, ethnicity isn't so important, as a belief in Judaism. So anyone can become a Jew if they practice Judaism?

How about if an ethnic Jew converts to another religion, or is an atheist, are they still a Jew?

Or is it considered as two different types, ethnic and religious?

[tutsiwarrior]

ijwt, do u have more info?? although i wont be in thailand for a long time, and my parents probably never, my dad has this fixation about remote jewish communities so i mentioned to him this thread yesterday and now he is all gung ho! about finding more info.

tutsi, its your fate to fall into all threads that mention the word hummous, havent u noticed by now???

i have to admit this is an absolutely fascinating thread and hasnt gotten personal or nasty yet surprisingly enough. who would ahve thought htat someone would even think about this subject.

i actually had a great uncle who was the something or other beneath the secretary of the treasury and the official translator for the japanese and americans during the war. he was widely travelled in SEASIA including also new guinea (dined with a chieftan and ate some kind of wierd slug that tasted to him like whipped cream, and wasnt kosher) and other out of the way places in the south pacific, dined with kings and diplomats and i think he also had an appointement with His majesty the King of thailand. his house was full of artifacts etc from nippon, siam as he was an antique books and artifacts collector also.

for a jewish kid from bronx new york who was champion featherweight boxer this was amazing unto itself. he spoke fluent japanese with all the nuances and was one of the official translators of the treaty at the end of the war. i think he also spoke thai. unfortunately he went into coma many years ago and died recently and i was never able to utilize him as a source of information (like most young kids with eccentric great uncles i hated to visit him and listent ot his stories but now of course i regret that).

on top of all that, i had a professor whose son spoke papuan new guinea and yiddish (as anthropologists the family was posted in new guinea at one point, and the prof. was (now dead) also a prominent figure in holaucaust and yiddish literature etc so his kids grew up bilingual with a wierd bunch of languages.

so now its my turn to be the eccentric aunt. must be genetic.

bina

darling bina...I identify widde hero ob Malcolm Lawry's novel Under the Volcano wherein the drunken hero Geoffry Fermin was charged by mexican nazis as 'chingao chew' and subsequently murdered...dis stigmata an' my fondness fer middle eastern food has gotten me into trouble more than once...

recently my sister's jewish mom - in - law died, someone that I knew fer almost 50 years, we useta argue about Israel and zionism endlessly, she was a kibbutznik from the 30s, born in Russia an' only spoke yiddish until she was a teenager...I was not able to attend the funeral but rang up during the wake to pay respect...I said sorry that I couldn't make it an de oldest brother said 'don't worry tutsi, you are a brother an' have always been part of this family...'

tutsi is an honorary jew...

Edited February 18, 2007 by tutsiwarrior

[higgy88]

Here is a page from the Jewish Association of Thailand web site which may give a clue as to where the 199 number came from, and it gives a brief history of the Jews in Thailand. Higgy

Jewish Association of Thailand

[bina]

Hi Bina,

Sorry, I don't want to take this thread off topic, but from what I can gather, to be considered a Jew, ethnicity isn't so important, as a belief in Judaism. So anyone can become a Jew if they practice Judaism?

How about if an ethnic Jew converts to another religion, or is an atheist, are they still a Jew?

Or is it considered as two different types, ethnic and religious?

completely off the topic BUT: ethnic only and then religious (we are a nation with a language land and army according to the probably outdated defintation of what is a nation) i.e. you are born live and die jewish no matter what u do. i am an atheist, buddhist. totally secular. u can be like my italian catholic brother in law married to my sister and they are, as my mom used to point out, 'more jewish then u and T. (my israeli ex husband)' just because they DID 'jewish' stuff like their kids went to jewish day school, they were involved in the jewish community, etc tec. however, by jewish law, he, A. is not and never will be jewish until he does the full scale conversion deal including circumcision (if he isnt already, and if he is, then he does a symbolic sort of one). and as many a country has reminded us, even if your great great great grandma was jewish, then so are u (its matriarchal), unless u want to move to israel and then u have to prove it. why any one is his right mind would want to join us is definately beyond me. but totally off the topic u can pm for more info its just not relavent really to thailand....well anyway, that is the whole 'who is a jew' question.... and now everyone will sympathise with me in that i have to explain all this to a bannork issaan non educated thai husband.... youvvvvvvvvve goooot to be kidding, right?????? oh, and i hate chopped liver.

(to those that sent me suggestions, i'm searching and thinking of ideas)....

will now investigate higgins' lead to a site...

[bina]

higgins, your lead is:

Powered by Chabad.org © 2001-2007 Chabad-Lubavitch Media Center

its the chabadnik site; actually informative but they are missionaries in every way ... i have to admit though that the chabadniks are the ones that have communal meals in nepal, help parents locate their 'lost' i.e. drugged up or psychotic' , jewish children that are gallivanting all around the globe etc. and a sort of 'at home' feeling when away from home. even my very super secular new age daughter insisted that we light shabbat candles on friday night when we were in korat. and my folks felt better that there was a chabad house in chaing mai even though that is light years from some muubaan in korat. 'just in case.

i'm sure that if and when we will be back in thailand, i will make use of them, or at least their site, even if its just for 'networking', or expat culture shock commiseration (like holiday times etc)... even though here in israel all i can think of during pesach (passover) and other major holidays is where to go to avoid the holidays here in israel at all costs ........ as we all joke, way back when, the jews left en masse from egypt, creating the passover holiday. nowadays passover is two and a half long long school vacation weeks, so with all the bomb threats etc,. we cant do our exodus back to the sinai (egypt) so we want moses to set us free in the direction of ko samoi and bangkok.

very wierd article in washington post, as if the chinese in thailand are not filling the exact role the jews played in eastern europe, as the merchant middle class.

and chinese friends always used to say their parents walked around all day saying 'my son the doctor, my son the lawyer' when my friends wanted to be artists, or yogurt makers or something.