Smoking Ban

[Mighty Mouse]

It seems that some of the pro-smokers want to use the argument that there are many worse things out there that will cause ill health. Yes there are, but responsible governments around the world are forever active in their attempts to reduce/eliminate these dangers. eg. Greenhouse gases, lead in petrol, asbestos, various diseases, unsafe motor vehicles etc. etc.

It is insane to argue that because certain dangers, other than those caused by tobacco, still exist, the world should sit on their hands and do nothing. The dangers caused by tobacco smoke are well documented. If you wish to sweep such dangers under the carpet you are a fool living in denial.

Some of you state that because tobacco is sold legally you have a right to smoke whenever and wherever you want. That is true to a point. You do have the right to smoke (currently) but you don't have the right to light up whenever and wherever you want if your habit interferes with the rights of other people. (unless you have the ability to contain the smoke within your own breathing space - and this is impossible.)

I have the right to shoot a firearm but I don't have the right to shoot a fire arm in areas where other people may be at risk. This principal also applies to many other legal activities, why can't some of you smokers understand it?

You argue that some bars/restaurants/clubs should allow smoking and non-smokers then have the choice as to whether they enter those premises or not. No problem with that argument provided the bar is able to contain the smoke wholly within its own premises. In Thailand I have yet to see a bar that can do this. Bars and restaurants trade in close proximity to each other. One bar/restaurant permits smoking, its neighbouring bar does not. The smoke from the smoking bar will inevitably drift into the non-smoking bar/restaurant.

Four walls will contain the smoke only until somebody opens a door or window. Exhaust fans in smoking establishments belch the smoke out of premises into the atmosphere where others can be adversely affected.

Nobody wins so the government is forced to legislate. That's what this thread is all about.

It's not the smokers themselves or the cigarettes themselves we are objecting to, it's the second hand smoke exhaled by irresponsible smokers and the smoke drifting from lit cigarettes that is causing the problem.

Either contain the smoke or smoke in areas where other people can't be affected and we'll all be happy.

If smokers could inject a nicotine hit into their system by way of a syringe, non-smokers would have no reason to complain....provided that the needles were properly disposed of.

If cigarettes were the smokeless variety, non-smokers would have no reason to complain.

Smokers can argue all they want but the writing is now well and truly on the wall. Smokers are a dieing breed - literally, and the places where you can legally light up are quickly disappearing.

Maybe now is a good time to quit the filthy habit. Do your health, your pockets, your family and your friends a huge favour. Give it up and smell the roses.

[Mighty Mouse]

For gods sake MM, butts are made of cellulose acetate (wood pulp or a kind of paper if you like), in contact with water they dissolve in a relative short time, alltough I agree it can be unsightly it is hardly a enviromental problem worth a mention, I have never had a cigarette with the butt made of plastic, and I challenge you to show any water quality test off the Pacific Ocean outside Californias beaches that show any trace of toxins from cigarettes, or in any other ocean for that matter, the sites with your information is from anti smoke and enviromental nutters, and is pure unsubstanciated propaganda. Unfortunately legaslative powers sometimes makes decisions based on poor knowlegde and to score cheap green points while saving money at the same time.

Cigarette filter buds: cellulose acetate comes from wood pulp, according to Wikipedia is produced from reforested trees therefore it is regarded as enviromentally friendly and will compost.

Kind regards

I found some tests that have been conducted on cigarette butts and the toxins that they contain.

The test results state: Cigarette butts are the most common type of litter on earth. Collected, they weigh in the millions of pounds. The toxic chemicals absorbed by cigarettes' cellulose acetate filters and found in butts' remnant tobacco, are quickly leached from the butts by water.

The evidence indicates that the toxic chemicals leached from discarded cigarette butts present a biohazard to the water flea at concentrations of more than 0.125 butts per liter, or about one butt per two gallons of water. The leachate from the remnant tobacco portion of a cigarette butt is deadlier at smaller concentrations than are the chemicals that leach out of the filter portion of a butt.

You can find the full report here.

[Furbie]

But nobody has answered the question of CHOICE.

Why should a person who invests all their time, money and effort in a business not have a CHOICE in the policies of that business? They put a sign outside their pub/bar/restaurant "Smoking is/is not permitted inside these premises" then the potential customers have the CHOICE whether to enter or go someplace else. The person who runs the business is the one who succeeds or fails according to their personal CHOICE and that of their customers. Why are we so keen to let the government take away personal CHOICE?

Would you all be so keen if the government introduced an anti meat products law whereby it was illegal to eat meat or animal products in a public place? After all that fat produces cholesterol which is a mighty big killer and a drain on the health service and it causes obesity which makes it unpleasant to sit next to those fat b@st@rds on the plane.

Sure, while we are at it, let's get rid of those pesky hygiene regulations, let people eat naked in restaurants, bring in farm animals and in general do whatever they want – it's your right to do these thing - NONSENSE.

Society has the right to ban individual freedoms when they affect the freedoms of others – though I must point out to you smokers that I am unaware of any right to smoke. Smokers affect the freedom of those around them, maybe not everyone, but certainly enough of them. Smoking is bad for your health, it reeks, and makes food taste bad. By all means, do this around those trying to enjoy a meal.

It makes perfect sense to limit where people can smoke. Just as it makes perfect sense to require people to use a restroom to go to the bathroom.

Sure, why not? I am talking about personal choice so if a restauranteur wants to ignore hygene regulations, allow people to sit naked at the tables and urinate in the corner why should the government regulate against it. Provided he advises all potential customers, via prominently positioned signage, of the conditions within his establishment then he leaves the choice of patronage where it belongs. That choice is with the paying customer and if enough paying customers decide to avoid the place and dine elsewhere he has a stark choice, change the conditions or go bust.

It only makes perfect sense to limit the freedoms of others to those control freaks who cannot allow people freedom of choice and enlist governments to support their predujices. This is the same banal mentality that forces people to sit up all night to watch some film or TV play billed as raunchy only to write in to the papers next day as Disgusted of Nakon Nowhere. It's also the same mentality that requires warning notices on bags of peanuts "Warning this product contains nuts".

Sorry, your argument is weak. A restaurateur has to abide by health and safety regulations – as do numerous other types of businesses. If we left these areas to the free market in all circumstances there would be total chaos. We live in a world where certain standards are applied – regulations exist and people are not free to do anything they want – even if you own a business. Cars have safety standards because of regulations, factories have pollution standards because of regulations. The list goes on and on. Some are good; some are foolish, some are critical. However, in this case, the link between your nasty habit and the danger posed to those around you is being recognized by more and more governments. What that means is that more and more places will ban smoking.

I repeat, smoking is not a right, and by choosing to smoke, you endanger the health of others around you. I realize you don't care, but thankfully more and more governments do.

You are missing the point completely, I said provided he advises all potential customers......... The hygene regulations were brought in because there were no standards to be judged against. I am not arguing for nor against non-smoking bars and restaurants but merely for the principle that the owner makes the initial decision and the customers have the final choice. What is so difficult for people to decide that a particular establishment is not for them and to move on?

btw if you had read my first post on this thread you'd realise your comment about "your (my) nasty habit" is incorrect. Go back and read the words not what your predujice would like you to read.

Sure, while we are at it, let’s let the bar owner decide if he/she should pay minimum wage, provide proper safety equipment to the staff, provide restrooms, ensure the kitchen is clean, whether or not to buy alcohol that has been imported legally, get licensed, etc. He can just advise everyone why he/she is so special.

You don’t get to opt out of health and safety regulations. What about the staff who work in the establishment? This is why we have laws, to protect people from the excess of others.

Edited June 13, 2007 by Furbie

[polecat]

Smoking attracts women and gets you into bars. It also means you can hang around on street corners late at night and pretend you're Alain Delon.

You people who complain about not being able to breathe on restaurants need to grow a pair. You should try smoking on the back of a motorcycle in a traffic jam on Rama IV during rush hour -- THEN it's hard to breathe. People like us deserve your respect, dammit!

As for bars. If you want a nice clean, fragrant pad to drink your two glasses of zinfandel and Appeltize, you shouldn't be in my bar in the first place! Gimme 6 pints of Singha, some really high-cholesterol crisps, a pack of LM Lights (hey, I try to look after myself) and, if I'm hungry, I might go for a steak sandwich. That'll do for a Wednesday afternoon.

And seeing as I can't enjoy a smoke with my soy milk (there it is again) banana espresso frappucino in the mornings because you guys won the battle for coffee shops (have you never heard of Otis Redding or Jim Jarmusch?) and shopping malls, can't you let us have the restaurants and bars? I mean, it's always the non-smokers in the bar with their freakin laptops (always a Mac) tripping up all us real patrons with their power cables and making their Earl Grey last 4 hours. You're taking up space fellas!

As a great man once said, my biggest fear is that if I quite smoking I'll become one of you.

[larvidchr]

For gods sake MM, butts are made of cellulose acetate (wood pulp or a kind of paper if you like), in contact with water they dissolve in a relative short time, alltough I agree it can be unsightly it is hardly a enviromental problem worth a mention, I have never had a cigarette with the butt made of plastic, and I challenge you to show any water quality test off the Pacific Ocean outside Californias beaches that show any trace of toxins from cigarettes, or in any other ocean for that matter, the sites with your information is from anti smoke and enviromental nutters, and is pure unsubstanciated propaganda. Unfortunately legaslative powers sometimes makes decisions based on poor knowlegde and to score cheap green points while saving money at the same time.

Cigarette filter buds: cellulose acetate comes from wood pulp, according to Wikipedia is produced from reforested trees therefore it is regarded as enviromentally friendly and will compost.

Kind regards

I found some tests that have been conducted on cigarette butts and the toxins that they contain.

The test results state: Cigarette butts are the most common type of litter on earth. Collected, they weigh in the millions of pounds. The toxic chemicals absorbed by cigarettes' cellulose acetate filters and found in butts' remnant tobacco, are quickly leached from the butts by water.

The evidence indicates that the toxic chemicals leached from discarded cigarette butts present a biohazard to the water flea at concentrations of more than 0.125 butts per liter, or about one butt per two gallons of water. The leachate from the remnant tobacco portion of a cigarette butt is deadlier at smaller concentrations than are the chemicals that leach out of the filter portion of a butt.

You can find the full report here.

You keep quoting from people that lie about such a basic thing as to wether Cellulose acetate (cigarette filters) is a compostable product of nature, or plastic wich is not. How many gallons of water do you think the worlds oceans and freshwater lakes and waterways hold, the kitchen test from your link is unscientific crap and has no bearing on any actual mesurable toxic pollution of waterways or oceans from cigarette butts.

Not only that but the site starts to make a problem out off the collective mass/liters cigarette butt's take up, in the real world I live in I have never been crowded for space by cigarette butt's, it is not your fault MM, but it is a load of BS, and an example of the kind of blatant lies that is used as political spin, more unfortunate is that today these things is left largely unchallenged, because how many Politicians would be seen defending anything connected with cigarette smoking even if it is just correcting obvious lies.

Kind regards

[IMA_FARANG]

Just a reminder for those going to the UK in the Summer and that is a smoking ban is due to come into force on 1 July. It covers virtually all enclosed public places including offices, factories, pubs and bars. But neither outdoor space nor private homes will be affected.

When or will it happen here do you think?

In certain places it already has.

I arrived on the 5th of June. Before getting off the plane there was an announcement made in both Thai and English about a smoking ban being in effect in the airport and a clear reference made to a fine for anyone caught smoking outside the designated smoking rooms. I don't remember the amount of the fine (I don't smoke anyhow) but it seemed like the fine was pretty substantial.

[kmart]

Smoking attracts women and gets you into bars. It also means you can hang around on street corners late at night and pretend you're Alain Delon.

You people who complain about not being able to breathe on restaurants need to grow a pair. You should try smoking on the back of a motorcycle in a traffic jam on Rama IV during rush hour -- THEN it's hard to breathe. People like us deserve your respect, dammit!

As for bars. If you want a nice clean, fragrant pad to drink your two glasses of zinfandel and Appeltize, you shouldn't be in my bar in the first place! Gimme 6 pints of Singha, some really high-cholesterol crisps, a pack of LM Lights (hey, I try to look after myself) and, if I'm hungry, I might go for a steak sandwich. That'll do for a Wednesday afternoon.

And seeing as I can't enjoy a smoke with my soy milk (there it is again) banana espresso frappucino in the mornings because you guys won the battle for coffee shops (have you never heard of Otis Redding or Jim Jarmusch?) and shopping malls, can't you let us have the restaurants and bars? I mean, it's always the non-smokers in the bar with their freakin laptops (always a Mac) tripping up all us real patrons with their power cables and making their Earl Grey last 4 hours. You're taking up space fellas!

As a great man once said, my biggest fear is that if I quite smoking I'll become one of you.

Are you Denis Leary?

Giving up cigarettes was the hardest thing I ever accomplished, basically due to the fact that I hate "quitters."

[Mighty Mouse]

You keep quoting from people that lie about such a basic thing as to wether Cellulose acetate (cigarette filters) is a compostable product of nature, or plastic wich is not.

It doesn't seem to matter to you who I quote from or where I find such test results, you are determined to label them all as "liars."

Perhaps you will be good enough to find some test results or some other scientific studies that support your argument.

How many gallons of water do you think the worlds oceans and freshwater lakes and waterways hold, the kitchen test from your link is unscientific crap and has no bearing on any actual mesurable toxic pollution of waterways or oceans from cigarette butts.

Are you suggesting that all sea life living in and around ocean outlets are insignificant in the overall scheme of things? Perhaps my research should take in the pollutions that affect the main oceans of the world, such as the thousands upon thousands of barrels of radioactive materials that have been dumped into our oceans over past years. The rubbish that is regularly dumped into our oceans by world class cruise ships, container ships, navies from all countries etc.

Why don't we add to the pollution of our waterways and dump our waste fuel and oil in there too. What harm can it possibly do. What the heck does it matter anyway !!!

Not only that but the site starts to make a problem out off the collective mass/liters cigarette butt's take up, in the real world I live in I have never been crowded for space by cigarette butt's,

That's because you discard your butts on beaches and in gutters and don't take them home with you where they might "crowd your space".

it is not your fault MM, but it is a load of BS, and an example of the kind of blatant lies that is used as political spin, more unfortunate is that today these things is left largely unchallenged, because how many Politicians would be seen defending anything connected with cigarette smoking even if it is just correcting obvious lies.

No, it's not my fault. I try to keep our environment clean, tidy and healthy. It's not the politicians' fault either. They do there best to correct unacceptable practices through legislation....and according to you, it can't be the smokers fault because when they discard their cigarette butts they aren't causing any damage to our delicate environment, so it must be the fault of all those lying scientists who have the nerve and audacity to conduct research into the causes of death to our wildlife species and who come up with bullshit results.

Next, you'll be telling me that medical research is all bullshit too. There aren't any diseases or cancers caused by smoking. Nobody dies as a direct result from smoking. No lungs collapse from smoking, no mouths develop ulcers from smoking, nobody could ever develop gangrene from smoking tobacco....that's all lies, lies, bloody lies isn't it?

The whole world is wrong except you. You are probably a very nice person but a typical smoker who is living in denial.

[canuckamuck]

Smoking attracts women and gets you into bars. It also means you can hang around on street corners late at night and pretend you're Alain Delon.

You people who complain about not being able to breathe on restaurants need to grow a pair. You should try smoking on the back of a motorcycle in a traffic jam on Rama IV during rush hour -- THEN it's hard to breathe. People like us deserve your respect, dammit!

As for bars. If you want a nice clean, fragrant pad to drink your two glasses of zinfandel and Appeltize, you shouldn't be in my bar in the first place! Gimme 6 pints of Singha, some really high-cholesterol crisps, a pack of LM Lights (hey, I try to look after myself) and, if I'm hungry, I might go for a steak sandwich. That'll do for a Wednesday afternoon.

And seeing as I can't enjoy a smoke with my soy milk (there it is again) banana espresso frappucino in the mornings because you guys won the battle for coffee shops (have you never heard of Otis Redding or Jim Jarmusch?) and shopping malls, can't you let us have the restaurants and bars? I mean, it's always the non-smokers in the bar with their freakin laptops (always a Mac) tripping up all us real patrons with their power cables and making their Earl Grey last 4 hours. You're taking up space fellas!

As a great man once said, my biggest fear is that if I quite smoking I'll become one of you.

Best post I've read all day and I don't smoke. I especially enjoyed the part about the Mac. Brilliant.

[larvidchr]

The whole world is wrong except you. You are probably a very nice person but a typical smoker who is living in denial.

Yes I am a nice person, and I am sure you are to, I dont think we will get closer to solve this little disagrement between us, but thank you for your time and sentiments.

Have a very nice day MM.

Kind regards

[larvidchr]

Smoking attracts women and gets you into bars. It also means you can hang around on street corners late at night and pretend you're Alain Delon.

You people who complain about not being able to breathe on restaurants need to grow a pair. You should try smoking on the back of a motorcycle in a traffic jam on Rama IV during rush hour -- THEN it's hard to breathe. People like us deserve your respect, dammit!

As for bars. If you want a nice clean, fragrant pad to drink your two glasses of zinfandel and Appeltize, you shouldn't be in my bar in the first place! Gimme 6 pints of Singha, some really high-cholesterol crisps, a pack of LM Lights (hey, I try to look after myself) and, if I'm hungry, I might go for a steak sandwich. That'll do for a Wednesday afternoon.

And seeing as I can't enjoy a smoke with my soy milk (there it is again) banana espresso frappucino in the mornings because you guys won the battle for coffee shops (have you never heard of Otis Redding or Jim Jarmusch?) and shopping malls, can't you let us have the restaurants and bars? I mean, it's always the non-smokers in the bar with their freakin laptops (always a Mac) tripping up all us real patrons with their power cables and making their Earl Grey last 4 hours. You're taking up space fellas!

As a great man once said, my biggest fear is that if I quite smoking I'll become one of you.

[PhilHarries]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has probs with guys and their laptops taking up bar space. The other week in Beach Club Cafe, this is a rockin' bar with live band and a lively atmosphere, there was this dweeb sat there at the bar tappity tapping away making a glass of beer last an hour. I wouldn't mind so much but seating around the bar is at a premium in the evenings (best place to get service) and he could just as easy have sat at one of the tables.

Sorry off topic but nobody has come up with a reason why we can't choose for ourselves the atmosphere we wish to drink and eat in.

[Shrubbery]

If your clothes and hair smell of smoke after being in a smoking environment,

I have a couple of tips that may interest you. They can be used by both smokers and non smokers.

Tip Number 1

Take Clothes off….Wash Clothes…..Dry clothes….Repeat after next visit.

Tip Number 2

Return Home…Follow Tip 1…..Turn shower on, or run bath….Step in to shower or bath…..Get shampoo and wash hair….Exit shower or bath…Dry hair with towel…..Repeat after next visit.

I do realize that for the fonically challenged tip 2 may have to be amended.

[Mighty Mouse]

I dont think we will get closer to solve this little disagrement between us, but thank you for your time and sentiments.

Don't give up on me now !!!!

If you can quit this debate without putting up much of a fight, just think how easy it will be for you to quit smoking.

The remainder of the ever decreasing smoking paternity is relying on you to fight the good fight against us tobacco haters.

......oh well, who's next ???

[Sir Burr]

Never seen a poster so talented as MM at making a complete house with three house-bricks.

[boxingbeauty]

If your clothes and hair smell of smoke after being in a smoking environment,

I have a couple of tips that may interest you. They can be used by both smokers and non smokers.

Tip Number 1

Take Clothes off….Wash Clothes…..Dry clothes….Repeat after next visit.

Tip Number 2

Return Home…Follow Tip 1…..Turn shower on, or run bath….Step in to shower or bath…..Get shampoo and wash hair….Exit shower or bath…Dry hair with towel…..Repeat after next visit.

I do realize that for the fonically challenged tip 2 may have to be amended.

"Prevention is better than cure".

[Rinrada]

17 days to GO......

[Jet Gorgon]

Well, there goes the peace pipe.

I find that militant non-smokers complain about everything in a very vocal manner. When I went to a meditation retreat, I had to sign a form about regs. I told the ajarn, I am here to learn how to meditate, not how to stop smoking. No prob, smoke at the border of the temple grounds, he said.

I hate people that complain. Chronic geeze makers. Breathing in the exhaust crap on BKK city streets is way worse than 2nd-hand smoke.

I hope when the non-smokers get ahead with their smoking bans, they will outlaw people who fart, fatsos who take over my paid space on a plane or bus, and anybody who causes me stress. That's the biggest cause of illness in my book, STRESS.

I also find it amusing that so many wacky tabacky smokers are militant non-smokers. These types harangued me for smoking cigs but tried to light their spliffies on my balcony and then tell me I was an a*hole for making them go far far away from my house to smoke their stuff. Well, I don't like the smell of ganga, I don't like the "high" and the companies I work for do drug tests. You know how long Maryjane stays in your system? Long time. I get the second-hand smoke from these wanklettes' rollies and I am not only ticked that I get sick, tired, and unable to do my job, but then I have the potential for being fired for having traces of an illegal substance in my urine sample. As far as my biz is concerned, a single trace of that crap in my system is cause for termination.

Do I get angry? Nope. Hey guys, can you do it over there? Always worked for me.

[Shrubbery]

If your clothes and hair smell of smoke after being in a smoking environment,

I have a couple of tips that may interest you. They can be used by both smokers and non smokers.

Tip Number 1

Take Clothes off….Wash Clothes…..Dry clothes….Repeat after next visit.

Tip Number 2

Return Home…Follow Tip 1…..Turn shower on, or run bath….Step in to shower or bath…..Get shampoo and wash hair….Exit shower or bath…Dry hair with towel…..Repeat after next visit.

I do realize that for the fonically challenged tip 2 may have to be amended.

"Prevention is better than cure".

Interesting, I always thought that 99.9999% of people actually wash their clothes and take a shower or bath.

[PhilHarries]

If your clothes and hair smell of smoke after being in a smoking environment,

I have a couple of tips that may interest you. They can be used by both smokers and non smokers.

Tip Number 1

Take Clothes off….Wash Clothes…..Dry clothes….Repeat after next visit.

Tip Number 2

Return Home…Follow Tip 1…..Turn shower on, or run bath….Step in to shower or bath…..Get shampoo and wash hair….Exit shower or bath…Dry hair with towel…..Repeat after next visit.

I do realize that for the fonically challenged tip 2 may have to be amended.

"Prevention is better than cure".

Interesting, I always thought that 99.9999% of people actually wash their clothes and take a shower or bath.

You trying to tell us Brits (soap dodgers acc to the Aussies) that we only account for 0.0001% of the world population?

And to those who say that the smoking ban has not affected trade in Irish pubs and bars I quote the following :-

The Vintners Federation of Ireland told an Oireachtas committee yesterday that 7,600 jobs had been lost in the hospitality industry since the ban’s introduction, while 200 pubs had also closed down.

From this website : http://www.smokersclub.com/banloss3.htm

Mainly covers USA and Canada but short block on Ireland.

Also this :-

In Ireland, however, where a smoking ban is already in place, publicans and consumers are far from content, and the licensed trade's experiences there give a clear indication of the impact of a ban on pubs which derive most of their revenues from selling beer.

Since the ban was introduced in March 2004, the sale of lager, ale and stout in Irish pubs fell by 23 million pints, according to the Irish Brewers Association, while 42 pubs in Dublin alone were put up for sale. Nearly half of them failed to find a buyer.

Indeed, figures cited by the SLTA in support of its argument suggest that Irish pub sales are down around 20 per cent in average, and that 2,000 people in Dublin alone have lost their jobs as a result of the ban.

From here : http://beveragedaily.com/news/ng.asp?id=56...;c=%23emailcode

[borracho]

Flatulent people should be controlled somehow as well.

[jumnien]

Many people have found relief from addictive tabacco smoking by switching to the regular injection of nicotine directly into their veins. As long as they are responsible in disposing of their syringes, I think this trend is good. Nothing smells more foul than second hand smoke.

[Boon Mee]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has probs with guys and their laptops taking up bar space. The other week in Beach Club Cafe, this is a rockin' bar with live band and a lively atmosphere, there was this dweeb sat there at the bar tappity tapping away making a glass of beer last an hour. I wouldn't mind so much but seating around the bar is at a premium in the evenings (best place to get service) and he could just as easy have sat at one of the tables.

Sorry off topic but nobody has come up with a reason why we can't choose for ourselves the atmosphere we wish to drink and eat in.

Good point Phil.

Don't understand it myself why the anti-smoking Nazi's (am not a smoker myself) can't let folks who want to smoke in a bar have it designated as such. Non-smokers drink at non-smoking bars.

Edited June 14, 2007 by Boon Mee

[jumnien]

Thanks Boon Mee for your liberal defence of civil liberties!

[Boon Mee]

Thanks Boon Mee for your liberal defence of civil liberties!

No problem, mdeland.

I'm nothing but a staunch liberal at heart!

[canuckamuck]

Nothing smells more foul than second hand smoke.

I am pretty sure the dead dog lying on the side of the road near my house smells a bit worse than second hand smoke. So does: the smell of burning weeds next door, my running shoes, a bus to anywhere in Cambodia, The smell of deep fried bugs, sewer gas (found everywhere in LOS), and the smell of BS - the prime component of the anti-smoking nazi's arguments.

[jumnien]

Injectable nicotine is odorless, everyone can be happy!

One of the great fallacies of the anti-smoking nazis is that smoking is addictive. Once people switch over to injecting nicotine they rarely ever want to smoke a bunch of expensive smelly cigarettes just to get a small quantity of nicotine in their brain. And you don't have to leave the building and go out on the street just to get your dose. You can inject right at your desk or at your dining table or while your in a bus. You are free at last of a nasty habit that is limited as to where you can do it. Injection is the only way to go! Let's shut those cigarette companies rght down now!

Edited June 14, 2007 by mdeland

[mrbojangles]

Since the ban was introduced in March 2004, the sale of lager, ale and stout in Irish pubs fell by 23 million pints, according to the Irish Brewers Association, while 42 pubs in Dublin alone were put up for sale. Nearly half of them failed to find a buyer.

They should let them stay up for sale for a max of 12 months. If they still haven't got a buyer then they should allow a special licence for them to be a smoking only pub.

They would quickly sell then. All staff would have to sign a declaration that they would not sue and big signs saying "Customers and Staff enter at your own risk". These places would be the busiest in Town !!

[Phil Conners]

Since the ban was introduced in March 2004, the sale of lager, ale and stout in Irish pubs fell by 23 million pints, according to the Irish Brewers Association, while 42 pubs in Dublin alone were put up for sale. Nearly half of them failed to find a buyer.

They should let them stay up for sale for a max of 12 months. If they still haven't got a buyer then they should allow a special licence for them to be a smoking only pub.

They would quickly sell then. All staff would have to sign a declaration that they would not sue and big signs saying "Customers and Staff enter at your own risk". These places would be the busiest in Town !!

Why not just turn them into opium dens immediately, couches and all? Yes, it's additive and bad for your health too, what's different?

Edited June 14, 2007 by Phil Conners

[mrbojangles]

Since the ban was introduced in March 2004, the sale of lager, ale and stout in Irish pubs fell by 23 million pints, according to the Irish Brewers Association, while 42 pubs in Dublin alone were put up for sale. Nearly half of them failed to find a buyer.

They should let them stay up for sale for a max of 12 months. If they still haven't got a buyer then they should allow a special licence for them to be a smoking only pub.

They would quickly sell then. All staff would have to sign a declaration that they would not sue and big signs saying "Customers and Staff enter at your own risk". These places would be the busiest in Town !!

Why not just turn them into opium dens immediately, couches and all? Yes, it's additive and bad for your health too, what's different?

Smoking cigarettes is still Legal. Thought that was a pretty obvious difference to Opium, really

Edited June 14, 2007 by mrbojangles